Using CS Gas in Break Contact Drills???
The use of CS gas in break contact drills is something that I have started to become aware of as a reality out there on the interwebz. Frankly I am perplexed. It is not something that I have ever considered doing in my professional career as a soldier. I’m wondering where this is coming from. Perhaps its the usual: someone made it up in their Mom’s basement and it started to propagate on the interwebz?
However, no doubt someone will tell me that SOG used it in the Nam. And apparently Mosby talks about it in one of his question and answer sessions from February. So maybe I just don’t know what the hell I am talking about? If so, please educate me.
I originally had someone email me about the use of CS to break contact. I answered as politely and constructively as I could, but I could tell by his response that he wasn’t convinced, and was hell bent on using it. The latest discussion raised itself up in this FORUM DISCUSSION on Fire Superiority. The thread itself raised some other interesting questions, and then the CS thing popped up. WTF?
One thing I take away from that forum topic is the need for a grounding in professional training, to get the basics down.
Anyway, some of my job has been done for me. Extracts form the forum thread:
So, to apply some critical thinking to this, these are my thoughts on the use of CS gas to break contact, in no particular order:
1) CS gas is non-lethal. In the open air it is simply an irritant. I would rather be spending my time putting lethal stuff back at the enemy, in order to break contact. They used to use CS gas on us in training, in defensive positions, to simulate nerve agent. It’s nothing to worry about. Inside a designed training gas chamber, or a room, you may be more incapacitated.
2) CS gas is not smoke. Smoke will provide you with concealment, through which enemy fire will go, but at least you are making it harder for him to sight in on you. CS gas will not have this effect. Sure, you could mix CS with smoke, but who has the luxury when trying to break contact? Just keep shooting and moving till you go down or get out. It’s easy to have an SOP to throw smoke, where muscle memory will allow you to remember to do this. Anything more complicated will be forgotten.
3) What type of CS gas do you have and what is the range? Do you have a launcher of some sort? I doubt it, and I wouldn’t think it was worth it to add one to your gear. You may make the enemy’s eyes water and make him cough a bit, but other than that what’s the point? If we are talking about some sort of CS grenade, then that will only go as far as you can throw it, which is about nowhere. That means you will also likely be in the gas cloud. Are we wearing pro masks now? Are we spending time getting immune to CS (you can do that, with exposure)? I doubt it. If you are that close to the enemy, you need to be getting rapid fire down on his positions.
4) As you create space and maneuver away from the enemy, you will now likely be out of range of throwing CS gas at him. You are best off, if you want to throw something, using smoke to conceal your movement as much as possible. Remember that if you are using civilian available smoke, which is not WP, then it is signal-type smoke and is not instantaneous. You have to wait for it to ‘build’ to get any use out of it.
5) The whole point of break contact drills is to use SOP fire and movement to allow us the best chance of maneuvering away from the enemy, creating space, and thus allowing us to ‘break contact.’ Once we achieve that, we can rapidly rally and bug out. If the enemy is following up, we may have a hard time breaking contact, and be stuck in a running gun battle. My priorities during that time are generating accurate suppressive fire to allow movement as best as possible. If the enemy fire is very heavy you will likely take casualties and have to maneuver out at the crawl / using whatever cover there is. You may not get out, worst case. That is why breaking contact is most usually an SOP for surprise enemy contact, and will be mitigated by route selection and patrolling skills. Light enemy contact, all may be fine. Heavy enemy contact / well executed ambush and your chances start to go downhill.
That’s about all I’ve got here. I’m genuine when I say I am curious as to where this comes from. I’m trying to be a grown up in analyzing the use of CS gas. I mean, look: is there chance that you could make some bad guy start coughing and tearing up and stop him shooting at you? Sure. But what is our priority? Shooting and trying to make holes in that bad guy, right? I would use smoke anytime over CS gas.
Let’s put this to bed. Seriously.
Max
What about pepper spray? A few quick spurts in the ambushers eyes and I’ll run off. Boom, done.
Next thing you know we’ll have people asking about leaving oil slicks and thumbtacks behind.
Thumbtacks!
Potrtable bee hives and associated launcher. Or bees tied to cs grenade pins. Double boom
We searched a house one time of a guy that was on probation. We got to a room at the center of the house and the guy released some sort of CS to cover the smell of the huge bags of pot he had stashed and to keep us out. I guess it was a last ditch deterrent to keep us out to to mask the stench. The guy i was assisting with the search was a former Paratrooper and we just looked at each other and said “CS”. The smell was identical to the smell in the CS chamber but there was no burn or smoke so I’m not sure what it was. It did irritate the hell out of our nose and eyes just the same. It did not work however and an arrest and remand was made.
Bergmann
It would have to be at boot camp level of concentration to be effective. My sadistic DI was pouring on the crystals and our masks were all but ineffective and still we lasted our time in the gas chamber.
Woohoo. Don’t give me ideas for battle inoculation training. CS on the break contact lanes! No pro masks!
You could try the barbed wire crawl while MG being shot over your head thing. (In the MC the urban legend always is about the “that guy” who freaks and stands up) See the movie “Jarhead.”
I agree CS and pepper gas “grenades” are good for enclosed spaces. What about using these on a pull or trip wire at the start of an ambush(assuming you are doing the ambushing)? Would that help sow confusion in the enemy ranks to your advantage?
Ambushes are only initiated with deadly force. Also, any devices you have should be command operated, to prevent friendlies/civilians springing the ambush. Ambushes are command sprung attacks from a concealed position.
Firstly, agree that CS for break contact is not a good idea for the aforementioned reasons. Second, effective deployment in an open area depends heavily on wind whether smoke or CS. If the wind shifts with smoke, no big deal. Get caught in a CS drift…well..good luck evading that contact.
Lastly, real CS possession by civilians last I heard is illegal, as I believe it’s classified as a ‘dangerous device’ by various agencies, so any talk of using CS would be speculation for a post-SHTF situation and the encouraging of attaining such device puts the encourager and anyone partaking in the discussion in potential legal jeopardy.
Max had sage advice at the end of his post on this: Let’s put this to bed. Seriously.
Yup, lowest common denominator (Murphy) says you’ll end up on the receiving end of your own shit. The nature of gas, as stated, makes it a poor choice in an open environment, and, if conducted correctly, the amount of time the assaulter will be in contact with the gas cloud would be minimal, due to the speed required to conduct an effective assault. BTW Max, let me know whe the live fire gas battle innoculation range is being conducted, I have an appointment that weekend LOL.
In James C. Donahue’s three books; Mobile Guerrilla Force, BLACKJACK-33, BLACKJACK-34. He talks about using CS in combination with Claymores or WP to break contact with large NVA elements. I remember something in the book about the combo of CS and WP creating a lethal gas. Also they would strap the CS directly to Claymores with timing pencils. In this case it was used for the Cambodian platoon or company elements to break contact with NVA battalions and larger.
This is the only reference I have ever come across using CS for break contact. My time in the military was in a LRS unit, we spent most of our time doing break contact drills and CS was never mentioned.
The books were a good read and mostly dealt with the company hitting large elements then breaking contact into the jungle. They contain good information,but those guys also had access to things most civilians couldn’t get readily hell even most combat arms units couldn’t get.
Dirt you make a good point. The military has access to these kinds of resources and still doesn’t do it. At least not in any large numbers. Back in Vietnam and even today there are units designed to try new things in combat and see how they work. Even regular line units will change things up just to keep the enemy guessing it’s a good practice as long as it’s tactically sound.
CS, WP and claymores are a deadly combo but again probably difficult to emplacement on the fly. I’d love to thump out canisters of CS and WP while my buddies put out the claymores. I just don’t see it happening especially when the enemy may or may not follow you. They could just as easily be falling back too and you just wasted your CS or WP. Anyway not sure where I was going with this. Just so say we all need to think about our TTPs before we go adopting something.
CS gas for break contact? Sounds like someone trying to solve a non-existent problem to me, CS gas should be used for FISCH and NBC kit confidence tests.
Well, I’ll chime in here because it was my post that started it all.
I have been a student of MACVSOG tactics for 25+ years now. When they broke contact they did what they called back then the “Australian Peel”. This was meant for a “break contact and get the H$ll away fast tactic”. Using WP was the most popular way to do this.
I still believe and I am an Instructor in Chemical & specialty munitions, that if you know what you are doing you can time a “break contact” with it rather quickly. The only problem I see is what some of you have stated about “us” being gassed too. Wind is a funny thing. When using CS in an urban environment, such as a riot, and the order was for me to launch CS, I would first have all my gunners behind the main force and have their launchers filled with smoke rounds only. We launch smoke first because it gives us a good idea in which the wind is blowing and how fast. Everybody firing smoke will pick a position in front of them and at different cross sections of that part of the city. Once they have been launched, my personnel immediately load a CS canister into the launcher for their next shot.
During a “contact” with a superior force and the need to break contact is now, someone trained in using this stuff can either launch it or throw it in the general area of great enemy strength. CS will get there attention if you put the canister in the right position so you can allow it to do its work either by enclosing the enemy with the cloud or having the cloud go to the enemy. You can also use AN-8’s along with the CS to double the coverage. For some reason CS will adhere to the smoke (HC) to increase its effectiveness.
My apologies Max if this has gotten out of hand. Was not my intention.
When I can get there Max, I will bring some CS and we can experiment with it.
By the way, CS canisters can be found at any large gun shows. I have a couple left from my days instructing recruits and Mobile Field Forces on their use and these were given to me by a “Secret Squirrel” that I know.
Max,
The only time I saw a mention of this is in the SF B-720 TIPS (DEC 95), 1/7 SFG.
I found this updated version through another website. It is there in print. But I never heard of anyone using it.
In my time we would not have carried CS preferring the more lethal option.