TEAM: The Class Syndrome
Freemen:
I recently wrote a post titled ‘Leader & Led‘. In a comment on that post, Bergmann wrote the following:
On a serious note many times you get stuck with ppl that don’t want to be led, but rather have their own nefarious and demented reasons for showing up. Running a school give you a chip in the game that guys trying to coordinate a team (I’m not a leader) and depending on volunteers will never have. For a school, ppl have payed money to be there. It’s as good as fidelity bracelet in many ways.
This is a really good point, and one well worth considering.
It also ties in with some observations Diz made about his attempts to train a group, and how it really doesn’t work. I think this is probably a larger problem than is acknowledged. I have heard plenty of anecdotes about how people find it hard to get a group together, keep it together, and even more so: how to train effectively.
There are probably many reasons for this, but the main one is likely to be that deep down the group members don’t take training seriously. They think it will all be OK on the day (night) and they will rise to the occasion.
As a training school, MVT has the advantage in the creation of team, and people behaving themselves. Life is easy for me, because I don’t have to herd cats: students have traveled, given up treasure, invested their time. They trust the ability and experience of the instructors(s). They are told to put ego aside and use the training as an information exchange. They are training at a designed facility that is purpose built for training value. On the other hand, attempts by individuals to train groups can fall flat – for many reasons.
We had a discussion before about the philosophy of one person coming to MVT and then taking the training back to his group. This will have limited success, and will depend on the ability of that person to assimilate, instruct and pass on the information. This does have one advantage though – that if he has assimilated the information correctly, it reduces the potential arguments over what is right and wrong, because it has the weight of a training school behind it (though I get questions all the time from alumni groups, clearing up disagreements over methods and SOPs etc).
Of course, better to put your group in its entirety through MVT training, so everyone gets the most effective training from the source and it puts everyone on the same page. This can be done via open enrollment classes, or by arranging private classes. As an aside, I am looking to offer private CUTT training classes, where you have me come out and I train your group together.
Outside of the temporary discipline of a training school like MVT, it can be hard on the trainer. They have to get everyone to show up, they may have issues of credibility as a trainer and face challenges to the training that they are putting out, and there may be motivational issues from their team. I also see a lot of this sort of hokey-style training going on, which often lacks relevance because the instructor has failed to transfer the right lessons across from military service, which may in itself be limited/outdated: those field days where people do mini-patrols and perhaps extract a casualty and call in a 9-line – to who? Points for effort, but how effective is this? Bottom line is you will benefit from professional training.
Outside of the discipline of the military, or a professional training course, you have to be careful of the quality of training that you are getting. Also, individuals often become ‘experts’ when in fact they were never any such thing in their service time. This is prevalent in the civilian training world as well as the former.mil contracting world – I get anecdotes from Chris about some guy who won’t STFU on team training and who insists that pirouetting in a peel is a legitimate move instead of the safe/workable mantra of head-body-weapon. The guy won’t shut up. He’s an expert, as is everyone else. Unfettered ego.
Of course, lack of appropriate qualification and experience as a trainer leads to copy-catting. There has been a fair bit of this going on off the back of MVT training, but what I am really referring to is those who assimilate the ‘tacticool’ training methods / TTP’s and don’t know any better. I’ve seen ‘militia’ shows on TV where the training consists of this sort of ‘tacticool’ adaptations of square range training, or even poor current military/police TTP’s, that lacks utility as SUT (small unit tactics). It’s a problem.
The flip side to this is where trainers don’t have the experience, or it is dated, and they insist on teaching ‘old school ‘ methods, or maybe stuff straight from an FM, without the benefit of both including lessons from more recent combat experience, and also adapting these methods to a civilian environment.
From all of that, you should take away the need to be very careful where you get your training from. Research it. Once you have some training, the next issue is how to train your group. Of course, my best suggestion is bring them all to MVT, or bring MVT to you! Thee are a handful of other reputable trainers out there who will come to you. I hear good things from students about Mosby, but don’t really have a frame of reference on any others. . But failing that, what to do? I’m not sure I have the solutions for you, because it really depends on who you are and who you have in your group. Getting hooked up with alumni from the forum in your AO is always a good idea, because the fact that they have trained at MVT means that have received sound training and have good motivation to train. There are groups out there training and coming back every now and then to MVT for more.
Now, I get the whole thing about making the training suit the level of who you have, and inducting people gently, like your wife etc, so you don’t scare them off. But there has to be a rubber-meets-the-road time when training has to be done seriously and effectively to make you combat effective. You can’t pussy-foot around the issue forever. Thus you need a group of people out of which you can form a team, and which must train together. You have to set expectations that this will take up time and at times be hard work, and if they are not up for that, then they are out. They must do PT and get in shape. Because at the end of the day, you are either ready or you are not, and the enemy doesn’t give a shit. If you make it easy, he will kill you and rape your women.
If people don’t:
- Take the threat of SHTF/need for tactical training seriously.
- Don’t ultimately respect your ability as a trainer.
- Won’t do PT.
- Wont reliably show up for training.
- Wont shelve their ego in order to be a team player during training.
- Won’t STFU about their 5 minutes in boot camp 25 years ago, and how they did it back then.
- Won’t stop second guessing the SOPs you are putting across.
- Won’t quit whining about training being hard, and sweaty, or whatever else is getting sand in their holes.
- Or are some sort of provocateur, instigator, or whatever.
Then don’t even bother. Perhaps they will serve as useful sentries once the SHTF, or porch snipers. There is absolutely no point in trying to take these muppets on a patrol or any kind of mission.
I know, this is the problem that most of you face.
I can’t solve it for you, other than to offer training.
Max
This hits the nail squarely on the head!
You make some good points here. Your effectiveness as a trainer is certainly dictated by your class. We held an abbreviated patrol class a couple weeks ago as a follow-on to team tactics. It went well due to serious and receptive students. More than half were MVT alumni (we took turns instructing). Only a few had been to any other type of tactical training and there was little mil experience. There were no arguments since what we were teaching (a watered down MVT COI) was all they knew. A standard!
I always start with the disclaimer that I’m no expert; they need to go to WV for professional instruction and proper facilities. I’m still working up interest on a private remote class.
I attended the class Brian mentioned and found the instruction from your alumni exemplary. I haven’t been able to attend MVT so this was a great way to get in some training I knew I could trust. I’ve read “Contact” and follow the blog so, doing these things live action was definitely something I was looking forward to. As Brian noted, he and half the class were Alumni which helped a lot as they were able to back each other up and fill in blank spots. They also pointed out that we all needed to get it straight from the horses mouth to really get on the same page. Well, if that class was an appetizer, I’m salivating over dinner. The inability to break away from the corporate world holds me and I am sure others back. I am very much interested in a private remote class as Brian mentioned and hope we can make that happen at some point.
Thank you for all you do Max and keep up the good work.
Going to the new schedule format of (mostly) 1 open enrollment class per month will allow me more time/scope to do private classes, either at the VTC or remote at your place. It seems that many have the wrong impression about this, an d think that I won;t travel – just look at he success of the Texas classes. The new schedule isn’t, as many surmise, a result of me getting grumpy, it is simply an attempt to tailor my offerings to what students can and will do.
(“Now, I get the whole thing about making the training suit the level of who you have, and inducting people gently, like your wife etc, so you don’t scare them off. But there has to be a rubber-meets-the-road time when training has to be done seriously and effectively to make you combat effective. You can’t pussy-foot around the issue forever. Thus you need a group of people out of which you can form a team, and which must train together. You have to set expectations that this will take up time and at times be hard work, and if they are not up for that, then they are out. They must do PT and get in shape. Because at the end of the day, you are either ready or you are not, and the enemy doesn’t give a shit. If you make it easy, he will kill you and rape your women”)
People will also tell you what you want to hear in terms of agreeing with a training outline and agreeing to whats expected of them. Then when they get out with it the reality of the situation sets in, you see who and what they really are. I cant remember a situation where I thought “this guy will go the distance” in Alaska. Its got to the point that as a soon as I hear “I’m a life long Alaskan” its a sure red flag they will suck.
You can try to be gingerly about it, being pals over a few drinks and laughs to get to know a fella, ease them into it, throw an arm around them to be a pal outside of the training time, be a hard ass focused on the job/task you’re there for or firm-fair-responsible-and-distant as a leader should be. Ive even kit’ed guys out with stuff Ive payed for to make it easier on them-but no matter what-the reality is if they dont want it, you cannot give it. Ive also found a lot of ppl (especially these young ppl)want a therapist and to just talk about feelings and their woman problems.. wtf
When your out with a group of 5 new guys who all slept for shit in 20 below because they didn’t listen to your directions to begin with because they think they already know, and the next day you’re up before dawn, you tell them to be ready in 20 with food down your necks and assed up ready to go, weapons checks, camo up, put on the winter whites, etc etc etc-shit gets real, real fast. You see who wants to be there and who thinks being in a survival group is just a good idea to read and talk about..
I would recommend a very very lengthy courtship before you make any real plans with a potential training partner. IMO and experience its just a time and money saver. Don’t neglect getting something/anything done just because you’re alone or in between partners. Its better to be alone and gaining progress then festering in endless dram and bullshit you will no doubt encounter.. and fuken PT!
This problem is not exclusive to the USA. I have friends in eastern Europe trying to prepare for possible issues with Russia and they say the same things about ppl they encounter that show up, but over there airsoft SAS assholes and gear collectors are more a problem showing up like its a camo and kit fashion show.
Bergmann
I’m at the point where I really don’t want to train with anyone except a MVT alum, where we have some common ground to begin with. I am done arguing about tactics and other sundry bullshit.
I concur. I stopped looking over a year ago or so. The time wasted in one winter fooling w/ other ppls problems set me back along way. its time i can never get back. I get more done alone, other then messing with water.
Bergmann
Outstanding article, as always. Man, I wish everyone would just get off their asses and go to MVT. It would solve a ton of problems. It was tough, I ain’t gonna lie, but thank everything that it’s there. Priceless education. I’m going to reread contact and be back soon for another ass whoopin. Repetition makes it muscle memory. Hi Diz. You’re a rock star :)
Please educate me so I can unfuck myself.
I’m among the aforementioned young guys who talks to the other folk about women and feelings and such.
Why is this a fuck up?
?
Bergmans comment above.
Ive also found a lot of ppl (especially these young ppl)want a therapist and to just talk about feelings and their woman problems.. wtf
I see this in myself. If this is a screw up, want to know.
lol..
I rest my case..
Bergmann
I am not sure that you can be unfucked. The education system has worked very hard to feminized young men so that they accept the bullshit fed to them about how feelings are important and everyone is special.
What I expect from individual men and women is the ability to think and to reason. Critical thinking solves problems. It is that simple.
I personally do not give a single tinker’s damn about how you feel about anything. Your feelings about a topic are meaningless. Can you give me a reasoned and logically thought out explanation about the topic? If not, don’t talk. A sentence begun with, “I think”, “I believe”, or “I feel” means you don’t know factually what you are discussing.
Young men talk about woman problems because their manhood has been stolen from them. The young have woman problems because they don’t know how to be men. Learn to be a man. Be a gentleman. Be decisive and make well reasoned decisions and your woman problems start to diminish. Why? Because if you act like a man, the woman doesn’t have to.
Hobbs’ description of life as “nasty, brutish, and short” remains true to this day. Hard times are coming. Critical thinking is key to survival. If you can not think critically, you will find out just how nasty, brutish, and short life really is. You need to learn to solve problems and stop emoting about problems. It’s pretty much that simple.