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STFU: Get an AR!

Colt 6920

Knuckledragger thought for the day:

Observing training, and how people perform while doing it, I have to say that there is no justification to not have an AR-style rifle.

Yeah, Yeah, I know. You want to bang on about putting them down at 1000 yards, turning cover into concealment, and all that. To which I say: get out and do some tactical training. Don’t just polish it and put it in the safe. Get out, down and dirty, and train to fight with your chosen rifle.

As a tactical battle weapon, you can’t really beat the AR platform. 5.56mm ammunition is portable and effective in combat.The weapon is easy to manipulate and operate. Inter-operability, optics, spare parts are common and easily replaceable. Safety lever manipulation is easy. For example, the SAS long ago went to the M16 and now the Canadian built Diemaco.

I just use the Colt Law Enforcement 6920. I’m a simple guy, not a gun smith. I don’t want to have to ‘build’ my rifle. I just want a weapon I can trust and that I can kill people with when it becomes unavoidable. I just buy the one that seems closest to an M4. I just throw on an optic, replace the hand-guard with a rail and some ancillary gear. Job done. Choose your specific poison.

My one caveat: for slightly built females, I recommend a bullpup design. Something like a Tavor. With the weight to the rear, it is easier to manipulate and to bring to the shoulder and aim, reducing ‘wobble.’ If the ammo/magazines share commonality with your husband, then it’s not a problem.

Discuss!

Max

42 responses to “STFU: Get an AR!”

  1. Good topic…

    in some locales anyway. There are some people you just won’t convince where the 5.45 x7.62 debate is concerned.

    Certainly, a trained rifleman can make greater impact hits at further distances with the .308 rifle. ( Th AK style 7.62×39 rifles don’t even compare where accuracy and range are concerned, so they are kinda out of the conversation.) But that is where the advantage of the .308 round ends.

    Looking at it from a rational, reasoned perspective, in a SHTF/Societal collapse situation, for the average joe, the 5.45 wins hands down.

    The biggest advantage of the AR rifle, and what it takes to run it, to me, is weight.

    One hundred rounds of 5.45 weighs about 3 pounds. A hundred rounds of 7.62×51 weighs about 9 pounds.

    The average AR weighs in around 6 pounds, the average ar-10 platform weighs in around 10 pounds.

    So, if you were able to carry the amount of 7.62 ammo that is commensurate with what one would carry in 5.45 (240 rounds on the belt, or LBV, plus 30 in the rifle, plus another four hundred rounds in your ruck/pack), you would end up carrying an additional 44 to 45 pounds in weight.

    My ruck, with 3 quarts of water, food, sleep gear, extra ammo, clothing, etc, etc only weighs in about 40 pounds. Then when you add in the 25 pounds for your belt/LBV, and plate carrier, etc, if you are carrying .308, you are over a hundred pounds of gear you are toting around.

    I am smart enough to admit that these upper middle aged bones would not stand the additional weight for long.

  2. What are your thoughts on the AR -10’platforms. Same gun heavier caliber for punching holes through cover that needs to be punched through

  3. Aside from the contradiction in the title, “STFU” with the ending exhortation, “Discuss!,” :-) I agree with your position from an experience perspective.

    After running issue GAU-5A’s, M-16’s, and A1’s, and then running a M14 type rifle (Fulton Armory improved M1A) for almost 20 years, I can tell you that the M4 or the Canadian inspired version (20″ pencil barrel) is the way to go, especially for SHTF training. What’s available today in the M-Forgery family is literally light years ahead of what was eschewed ‘back in the day’. Ammo, accessories, even slings are so far advanced that performance is almost unequaled against other, heavier ‘full length’ calibers. The only thing limiting performance of a selected model now is the limitations of willingness to spend. Nickl Boron BCG’s and uppers ensure the ‘gun will run’ long after lube dries up. Optics are unbelievable in their brightness and ability to return to zero.

    I’d only add one thing to your spot-on observation about getting it out of the safe and training with it: Paint it. Make it ugly. Make it blend. Make it not so damn identifiably black. Costs about $20 or so if you use Krylon. Same with mags, especially the black Pmags.

    The bull pup set up for women is also an interesting idea…

    Nice post.

  4. I’m a Tavor fan too, because of it compactness, it works real well in an urban setting and around vehicles, my long gun for the field(I’m in the West Cascades of the Northwest) is the SCAR light, and all of my mag’s are interchangeable between either, my wife is outfitted with the Tavor. If I was going to be in the East side of the Cascades or high desert I would most likely carry the SCAR heavy just for the extra range however I don’t care for the limited ammo carrying capacity because of 308 but range in the open areas is something to be considered IMHO.

  5. So no love for the Combat modified Ruger 10/22 with plastic after market 30 rd mags in a kill Archangel folding stock with duct taped bayonet? I mean thats a Nazi zombie killing machine right there.

  6. I’m concerned with people posting that the AR is or is not a good weapon and not knowing that its a 5.56x45mm and not the 5.45x39mm Russian round for the AK74……

  7. I think the AR is more than a logical choice, simply because it is the most prolific weapon system in America today. If people took the time to learn how to run the gun properly, they wouldn’t have to get into these stupid arguments about whether or not it’s reliable.

    I agree with Max on accessories. I’m a minimalist too.

  8. I own an M-4gery, a Tavor, and a Sig 556. I can see the pluses and minuses of each. I would probably choose the Sig for training despite the heavier weight.

  9. Nice one Max! So Heather’s Tavor will cost me how much………..and the rabbit-hole debate of 5.56 & 7.62 is re-opened.
    In full agreement on the AR15 weapon system point of view. This is the 95% solution. A squad designated marksman should close the rabbit hole for your long range fanatics. Something I would certainly consider deploying in a squad patrol/overwatch situation.
    My final caveat, relating to this weekend’s CRCD. No hand re-loaded ammo. Had this been a true contact scenario, several people would have been regretting this poor choice.
    Thank you Aaron, Max & Fred, a truly inspiring weekend.
    AAR to follow.

    • I wouldn’t want shitty hand loads or steel case ammo for the real deal. A few jams or misfires caused by such ammo during training however seems like not such a bad thing. Helps with malfunction drills.

  10. Howdy max, kewl stuff! I recently purchased a colt le6920 myself, and now im looking for suggestions on optics. I want battle proven, and id like to stay close to a grand.. any suggestions?

    • I use an old M68 (Aimpoint Comp M2). Used, they can be had below $400. I don’t have a magnified optic for mine.

  11. Last year, I got myself a Tavor… which my petite wife quickly commandeered as her own. It works incredibly well for her, especially when holding even a carbine-length rifle looks like she’s holding a 2×4. The other benefit of it is within vehicles. And she maintains complete ammo and magazine interchangeability with my rifle.

    A quick note, without inflaming the 5.56 vs 7.62 debate, part of the decision process is terrain. Out here in Colorado, I can literally see several MILES in every direction, from my home in the suburbs! 7.62 makes a lot of sense here, where I will always be able to see much further than I can engage. We have no bushes, trees, etc… just flat dead scrub in every direction.

  12. Good points, especially about keeping things simple. I did go the “build my lower” route more as a learning experience more than anything so that I feel comfortable making any repair/maintenance. Plus I got a great deal on a couple of lowers when I started the project.

  13. Let me guess, this class had a few special snowflakes? Well let me say America’s gun culture is a snow making machine.

    Guido’s post reminds me that at one time there was a hint that an online TacEx was going to be created for those out in the grasslands where the buffalo and tanks roam, any chance of that? And a printable flier for the gun club?

  14. Eh, to each their own.
    I’m an immigrant like Max, and I used a modified G3 in my service time. Guess what?
    I have a PTR.
    I train for 7.62. It works for me.
    Get what works for you.

  15. I’m with Hanz. Get what works for you and train with it.

    If it’s an AR, AK, PTR, M1, I don’t care. Just know what you are capable of, train the things you don’t do well, and drive on.

      • “You don’t get it if you don’t get it.”

        You are my hero, Max. Again, a great post. Keep telling them until they eventually get it.

      • I get it, I simply disagree.
        I personally have hundreds of hours behind the G3 platform. I have used both 5,56 and 7,62. I prefer 7,62; I can see the usefulness of a lighter intermediate cartridge. Many platforms are just as modular as the AR, but this is turning into a petty rebuttle.

        I was trained with 7,62, and our TTPs reflected the addition of a 7,62 marksman. I never was overly tired, nor out of ammo.
        And within an urban hidesite, 7,62 is unparalled. As it is for some other urban applications.

        But I digress. What is best for me is not best for all.

  16. Any advice for someone in NY? AR-15’s are not available for purchase and neither are 20 or 30 round mags. I got in the game to late to buy an AR. Hoping the Supreme Court remedies this for me in the next year or two but I’m not holding my breathe. Someday I’ll pack up the farm, business and family and move to a free state but until then…

    • ddub

      I’ve seen some picks on the internet of people with AR’s in NY. But in order to pull that off they had to mod it. I remember one of the mods was running a stock off of where the pistol grip attached. Look up NY compliant AR’s. Can you own stripper clip weapons like an M1A? If so that might be an option so long as the magazine capacity is limited and/or does not remove. If you have capacity restrictions a 308 weapon system will allow you to get some of the lost firepower back and stripper clips weigh less than mags as well. With training a stripper clip feed weapon can be reloaded quicker than many people think. While not ideal it would still balance the mobility vs firepower equation.

  17. Any discussion on weapon systems must start with the fact that ultimately it’s the man and his training that matter most, not the tool employed. I cannot say as a matter of fact if the M16 family of weapons is the best combat rifle but I’m thoroughly convinced it’s good enough. If it was a piece of garbage like some believed, and appeared to be at the start, it would have joined the Krag rifle on the junk pile of history. Subsequent refinements have made it very serviceable weapon in “trained” hands. But there are considerations that go beyond durability, reliability, and accuracy that made the AR my combat rifle of Choice.

    Advantages of the AR in North America

    •A prolific weapon system
    -Easy to find in the arsenals of friends and foes alike
    -Easy to find parts for
    •Modularity
    -Parts are easy to replace
    -Weapon performance scalable to parts being used
    -Single platform capable of firing many calibers from 22LR-50cal Beowulf
    •Ergonomic
    -Easy to mount the weapon and attain a good firing position
    -Easy controls to manipulate
    -Easy to reload
    – Relatively lightweight, depends on build
    •5.56 ammo
    -Lightweight
    -Fully Capable at intermediate ranges
    -Less expensive than many other ammo types
    -Domestically and widely produced
    -Lightweight mags

    For someone who is not a “Gun Guy”, firearms are a tool so my philosophy is to pursue mastery in as few weapon systems as possible. At the intermediate range the AR is not only a weapon that will get the job done but one that’s likely to be around. Rather than variety I think it best to have many copies of a few weapon systems strategically distributed. For this reason I’ve decided to increase my knowledge to the degree needed to assemble one piece by piece. I do still have a few questions about AR’s though that I would like to get some opinions on and provide evidence/experience if you could.

    1) How strong is the buffer tube really? My main concern is in the collapsible stock configuration when bayoneting. It would really ruin my day to smash someone in the face with the butt of my rifle and the buffer tube snap off.
    2) When running a 16inch semi-auto how thick of a barrel does a rifle really need to be combat effective? This is as much a question about realistic volume of fire as about barrel weights. If I could get away with a lighter profile barrel the weight savings would be a real bonus.

  19. Max, how would you go about training combat reloads eith the Tavor and other bullpups while in the prone position?
    I don’t have one on hand and just can’t quite wrap my head around the idea

    • Is the issue the combat reload with those weapons or being in the prone? I’m not familiar with the specific drills for the Tavor but I am with the SA80 (bullpup). However, with the AR, the SA80, the drills in the prone are the same as in any other position. The point being it is no different in the prone. Don’t let the prone mess with your mind. When dropping an empty magazine, the cant back to the right helps create space between the magazine well and the ground to help the mag drop out.
      http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/2014/04/rifle-stoppage-drills/

  20. The logic behind outfitting with an AR is solid and, of course, I’ve heard it all before.

    Here is the rub:

    1. Do I start all over from scratch with 5.56 at today’s prices (rifle(s),ammo, pouches, mags, etc.)?

    2. Do I sell off all my 7.62 kit to fund re-outfit of 5.56? My 7.62, ammo and support gear were all purchased 15-20 years ago before the price-hike insanity. I might make a profit on the sale but lose it all on today’s prices, especially ammo prices.

    3. Stick with what I’ve already invested in and put my money and time into other areas that need attention? (Like MVT training) ;-)

    Seriously, any wise counsel or thoughts on this would be welcome.

    • Simply depends on your disposable income and willingness/ability to spend it on a re-equip.
      If things are tight, stuck with what you have. What do you have? I wouldn’t get rid of a decent tactical weapon in 7.62 just for the sake of it. If its an AK, so what, just mod it with a decent safety that you can manipulate easily and get on with it.
      And of course, training is more important than equipment, as long as you have equipment that will allow you to do the job.

      • Preban HK, enough spare parts to practically build another one, mags, accessories (all real HK) and a respectable amount of ammo.

      • There comes a point where you have to hold what you have. We are all there in some way or other. Once dedicated to a platform/caliber, the logistics of replacing all of your support material makes change unaffordable for most of us.

        If you had a low quality rifle, you might consider changing out the rifle and maintaining caliber, and where possible, mags. I recognize this is not your situation.

        Were I in your position, I would consider a second rifle as a matched backup to what you now have as a primary and then drive on to the Ranger Objective.

        • Thanks for your thoughts Thomas. I figure I’m not the only one facing this conundrum and others might also benefit from talking out the best course of action.

          • When I started out, I chose the AR carbine and the M1A as rifle platforms and 1911 and Hi-power as my pistol platforms. I kitted out and have everything I need to support and run these platforms.

            Two things changed – the availability of quality 7.62 AR style platforms and high capacity polymer pistols other than the Glock platform. I had made investments in these to the point that I was locked in the specific platforms.

            Where the M1A is concerned, it works but is not an optimum rifle based on what is available in the market place today. I am proficient with the rifle and it is not so out of date that I would be ashamed to bring it to the dance. But, again, it is not optimum.

            The 1911 and 1935 platforms are in the same category as the M1A – not optimum for the task at hand. They work well, are accurate, and reliable when properly maintained.

            As I age, I become more calcified in my thinking, so, am not likely to change platforms for something more modern. I am now simply unwilling to start over because it would be cost prohibitive.

            What to do? First, realize how what you have fits in and can be used as primary and support weapons in a fight. Second, determine how you maintain some level of interoperability with those around you. Third, consider your secondary and tertiary backup plans for staying operational in a scarce environment.

            I would be interested in seeing your thoughts on this.

          • Thomas your reasoning seems clear and deliberate. The three considerations you set are good, grounding fundamentals.

            When I set out on my 7.62 NATO platform it was a different world: Pre Clinton “assault” ban insanity. I was focused on the tool without consideration of team dynamics. Actually I was more focused on 7.62 NATO as being the superior performing NATO fielded combat round and wanted a rock-solid, battle proven delivery system to launch it. FN-FAL and HK were the rifles that fit the bill at that time with HK being much more common and globally deployed than the FN. (Galil was too exotic and hard to come by and M14 no longer widely in service so I didn’t consider those)

            Today is a much different world. Cartridge performance is the same: 7.62 NATO outperforms 5.56 and that is not debatable. However the overall picture is much greater than simple cartridge vs cartridge. AR/M16 is standard for pros and civvies alike. Ammo weight and capacity are enormous factors. Support gear is dirt cheap and PLENTIFUL. Ergonomics and weight is easy even for small frame women and enhances target acquisition for anyone. Standardization/interoperability is easily achieved for small patriot units who might be thrown together. In short, I don’t need to be sold on the logic of running an AR: I fully get it.

            But I need to throw in another dimension into the problem: I am now a married family man whereas I was single with different priorities when I decided on 7.62/HK. Now I need to consider interoperability within my family unit and what will be suitable and affordable to outfit them with. Again, 5.56/AR is going to be much easier for my wife (and sons when they come of age) than 7.62/HK. Having a family means more resources to buy and subsequently less money to devote to any particular resource.

            If only money were no object and/or we had all the time in the world.

            Where I stand now, I believe the realistic course of action will be to stick with what I have and start building my wife into an AR kit. We can cross train. Then I will work on an AR kit for myself and gradually move the HK to reserve/special duty.

            God grant us the time and money!

          • We, Sir, are in very similar boats! I kitted out as a single man. I now have a wife and young child. My wife has had some training and is familiar with the AR platform. Fortunately, I can hand her what she needs from current stock. She is both capable and somewhat hard bitten and will perform when the time comes.

            I will use 7.62 in a support role. The ARs are now primary for any situation.

            For the time being, stack it high and deep.

  21. Maybe I missed it in one of the comments but the reasons I carry an “AR” are:
    1. Keep common mags/ammo with my squad.
    2. Battlefield pickup. I assume a trained and organized enemy will most likely be carrying a weapon in 5.56 nato.
    3. Unless I become independently wealthy, I am my own resupply. There are literally tons of quality replacement parts still available. If a future event prevents this, then see #2.

    Just my 2cents.