MVT FORUM: “What have you heard about MVT”
I saw this on the forum today: “What have you heard about MVT” – go to the link itself to chime in on the actual forum post. I am reproducing this conversation here simply because it is a message that I have been wanting to get out, and this forum thread seemingly has begun that process. I will paste the forum comments so far below:
Diz (Former USMC):
While researching another subject, I stumbled across a thread to a well-known tacti-kool website, and so out of curiosity, went into the training section. Where some guy was asking if anyone had heard anything about Max Velocity Training. Against my better judgement, I looked up my old password and responded. I gave a cautious response, as I had been flamed way too many times as a tin hat conspiracy nut, and was not in the mood for it any more. I told the lad that yes, I did recommend Max, and to contact me if he was really serious about it. I have yet to hear back from him.
But what this made me do was to examine again just what I’ve learned from MVT, and one inescapable conclusion that I reached, which I shared with him, was that the training I have received from MVT is actually superior to what I got active duty in the Marine Corps.
As painful as that is to admit, it’s actually true. A good portion of all this veteran experience that we see all the time online, being touted as the standard for SUT, is actually inferior to what you can learn from courses at MVT. Oh the horror! I can hear it already. But the fact is, a serious student of the combat arts, can gain more knowledge and experience in SUT, as it relates to us, from MVT, than A LOT of the so-called subject matter experts, that happened to be in uniform at one time or another.
This flies in the face of statements made on other websites, claiming veterans to be the sole arbitrators of SUT. At this point in time, I happen to think the exact opposite is true. Concerned citizens, seeking out realistic training, are better trained and equipped than many military/former military/LEO/whoevers. There is no doubt of this in my mind. Whoever is saying something different is ignorant of, or ignoring the facts. I have no agenda other than to tell it like it is.
I my particular case, I thought back on all the training I had received on active duty. This is back in the late 70’s-early 80’s, way pre-GWOT. Real cold war stuff. Vietnam is over and the military is going through huge cutbacks. Most of our training was in fact blank fire. Not that I didn’t learn a lot, but we rarely shot live fire and maneuver, because of budget restrictions, and the fact that people put their careers and fear of accidents above the training of their troops. So we spent a lot of time in the bush, where I learned the trade from good NCO’s, willing to school a young lieutenant. But that was mostly because I made the effort to learn it; there was no formal course of instruction. So in my case, I did learn a lot of theory and practical app of small unit tactics, but, I must admit, you can learn basically the same thing, with live fire training at Max’s, in an accelerated course of instruction.
OK, there will be outliers to this grand generalization. I acknowledge that. You may have a 20-yr SF/Ranger dude in your group, with experience out the ying-yang. Or, you may have militia “colonels” without any experience telling you what their take is on everything. Yeah I get that. But I am willing to wager a significant portion of the so-called experienced vets actually know/can do substantially less than what Max is teaching.
This is hard to admit. I had many pre-conceived notions before attending MVT. I though I was all that and a bag of chips. I quickly found out what is different in realistic field fire and maneuver training. I fully admit that it taught me more, in live fire training, than I learned in active duty training.
This flies in the face of conventional internet wisdom, as it were, and it is humbling to admit it, but it’s true nonetheless.
Max is so right when he says, you don’t know, what you don’t know.
Fred (Retired Active Duty Army):
You raise many good points (as usual).
For the last couple years I knew that Max training was better than what was out in the military but part of me had 2 thoughts.
– Maybe I had never been in units “high speed” enough and if I go out and tout Max’s as “better”, will I be wrong? I spent only a short time of my career in the Infantry and never in the high end units. (After that it was all artillery and we all know how much the Arty cares about SUT .. If it wasn’t Battery defense and very light patrolling around the battery area, we weren’t interested in it …)
– What, and this was an even greater concern to me, too much truth all at once will close minds?
If I want people to go to Max’s and tell them this is better than most (nearly all?) your .mil SUT training, many folks will:
a) not believe, b) think I am full of it and as a result be c) turned off by the conversation and not attend MVT.
So even though I am a believer that MVT is superior to active Infantry training, I rarely mention this on other forums since it generally won’t be believed and one might be painted as a over-the-top fanboy and be avoided.
I instead I just describe the training in general terms or post vids, or explain how superior it is to the SWAT fantasy camps.
Skittles (Former USMC):
I’ll double down on what Diz said.
Lee (Cadre, Former USMC):
One thing that cannot be argued by anyone when it comes to the quality of training is this…
When was the last time you got to shoot live fire at military pop-ups, ambushing you in the field at the Squad or Team level?
Most conventional forces NEVER do this. They do it at the platoon and company level, and only several times a year at best. In one weekend at the Velocity Training Center, you will get more live fire repetitions than an E-5 would get in his entire career.
Well, brothers, I think you’re right when you say most guys in the military do not get training to this level. At least anyone before the GWOT, and I suspect many after it as well. Anything below Ranger Batt simply doesn’t compare. Especially the live fire night assault at NOD-F.
It’s the simple truth, that our egos sometimes doesn’t want to admit. We enjoy the “status” of veterans among those that have never served, and perhaps rightly so, but we sometimes let them think we’re more high speed than we really are/were. It’s just human nature. “Yeah I was at Thermopylae” kind of thing.
It’s another simple truth that black powder made training the masses in the military arts a fairly simple process, which allowed the common people to become soldiers in very short order. All this noise about a person needs to be a ten-year military vet to “own” SUT is utter nonsense.
And finally, it is also a simple truth that all the technology and hardware in the world will not defeat a determined insurgency of people willing to fight and die for their cause. All this noise about Apaches and Abrams Tanks to the contrary.
Duane (Army Reserves):
I don’t know what is said on the other forums as I limit myself to 2 and occasionally a third.
My active duty unit was a medical detachment of Womack Army Medical Center. About 50% of the NCO’s (cadre) in this “battalion” were combat arms with most coming from the 82nd and were infantry.
Frequently, I was asked about the pictures on my wall which are from MVT. I explained to them what I did at MVT most of them had that “AAH OkK, good little retarded kid” look. They respected me for at least trying being that I was a 40 ish fat AMEDD officer.
There was one particularly loud-mouthed 11B E6 who one day in morning meeting after I reminded the team that I had a 4 day pass for the weekend to attend C3 said something to the effect of “You shouldn’t waste your time on this ‘civilian’ training, it makes you look like a wannabe.”
I asked them to stay in the conference room and I pulled up some youtube vids of MVT doing RTC and showed them the Rifleman Challenge video.
Needless to say the loudmouth never said anything again and an E7 11B from the 82nd with a CIB said he had never had that much training.
That pretty much encapsulates what I have been trying to make available with MVT Tactical Training. We have the training and experience in the cadre, we have the intent and ability to bring you well designed training classes at a custom built facility.