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Misfit Sends: 5.56 Reality from a Pro

Misfit rips the band-aid off with a dose of reality from a pro. Bring a sharp pencil, take some notes, suck it up and get over it:

 5.56 77 gr SMK
MV 3000 FPS
RANGE ELV MILS DROP INCH 10 MPH 15 MPH ENERGY
300 1.1 11.8 8″ 11″ 888.6
600 3.9 84.4 35″ 52″ 474.6
800 6.7 192.7 70″ 104″ 292.1
1000 10.7 384.5 123″ 185″ 186.4
7.62 175 gr SMK
MV 2500 FPS
RANGE ELV MILS DROP INCH 10 MPH 15 MPH ENERGY
300 1 10.1 8″ 11″ 1531
600 4.6 99 34″ 50″ 910.5
800 8 230.5 66″ 99″ 615.6
1000 12.5 450.5 114″ 171″ 431.7

I was asked to put up some numbers by Max. This was done with the aid of ballistic software. Basically what your seeing is 5.56 77gr Sierra Match King at 3000 fps VS a 7.62 Sierra Match King at 2500 FPS. 2500 FPS for a 7.62 gas gun with factory ammo is very considerate. I contemplated using data from my own rifles but wanted to keep in generic and easy for everyone to fact check. Just a quick fact the 5.56 has about the same energy at about 820 yds (about 280 ft lbs) as a 115gr 9mm ball round at 50 yards. I put the energy column in there and know that people are going to weigh in on that but you have to hit someone first for energy to be a factor. Also if you notice that both rounds are MATCH rounds. They are not meant to expand like bonded ammo they are meant to be accurate. Getting into bullets and energy  is just another rabbit hole to go down if you want to see what’s at the bottom of it open a book (Brain Litz comes to mind) this isn’t guns and ammo magazine. We shoot what we have. It’s not going to be a good day if you were shot in the chest by a .22 or a .50 cal.

The question??? Is the 7.62 worth the extra weight, cost and logistics to integrate into a squad? What about even a higher caliber or faster more powerful caliber? If you chose to up your game take into consideration the logistics (money) behind it. A .300 Win Mag shooting a 190 gr bullet at over 3000 FPS is gonna burn out your barrel in 2,000 rounds or less (and there isn’t a lot of manufactures that make them in gas gun platforms) same with rounds like the 6.5 284 and the list goes on.  That’s up to you to decide. Well I’ll just carry a AR and a .338 Lapua bolt gun, it’s more capable and accurate (and expensive and extra weight and you still will feel the need for a contact rifle).  Again this is the SDM not a sniper element specially equipped for long range precision fire and tasked with a sniper mission.

The guys that want to patrol the open plains area will find that they are not going to find a lot of dismounted infantry patrolling around. Open areas will be patrolled with vehicles, armor or armored vehicles. This will require different set of employment/tactics and equipment for the SU. Also for the guys that just fall back on how great of a marksman they are with their rifles that shoot bullets like laser beams and they think that that’s going to carry them in a fight. If you are a bench rest shooter that gets out and hunts a few times a year think that makes you some kind of a sniper, you’re wrong. Compensating with expensive equipment only makes up pennies in experience and proper education. If for every one round or expensive ammo you shoot I’m shooting three or four rounds of cheaper ammo and achiving the same standard I will be better.

From what I have seen from Max’s writings and what I believe to be true is that compartmentalized terrain (swamps of the south, mountainous areas spread throughout the US, the many places of broken terrain and possibly urban) is where SUT shines, with the equipment that most of us have or can get. This allows the small units to pick and play on their terms putting themselves in the position with the upper hand. Next time you’re out in your AO (Area of Operation) take a laser range finder and zap the key terrain around you and see what your distances really are and if the equipment is required. You can also get on Google Earth and do a map study of your area; still nothing beats boots on the ground line of sight. There is a lot of micro terrain that can help and hinder you. I think that you will be surprised to find the actual distances you will be working in, keeping in mind this is about SUT.

Scenario time: You’re a guy from out west that hunts and shoots guns with his buddies. Now you’re dropped into an area with your super awesome .300 win mag that you can shoot out to 1,000 yards with the guy you shoot with at the range every now and then. Maybe you have been there before maybe not but somewhere within the capability of you and your weapon there are a 2 well-trained individuals that have mastered things like camouflage (not just buying real tree off the rack), observation, stalking, ranging targets, patrolling, survival and a plethora of other critical infantry skills. They are currently hunting you with a SBR or DM type 5.56 rifles more than capable of hitting you out past 600m. Do you feel that you have the skills to survive this scenario? Do you think that just because you roll out into the woods a few times a year hunting and make it to the range every other month that you’re good? Take a look not just at yourself but at those you surround yourself with. Get the training now so you can become proficient at it. This is a way of life for some, and just a novelty to others. Where do you stand?

Misfit.

 

 

53 responses to “Misfit Sends: 5.56 Reality from a Pro”

  1. I used to have a Web Site Bookmarked that, after plugging in the Bullet Data, would give you drop rates at multiple distances. I lost the site address when my Lap Top crashed. Wish I could find it again. I have a Leupold metallic retractable data strip on my scope that I would transfer the information to,, it was very convenient. If you or anyone else can send a link to this site, it would be appreciated.

      • Another tool you might find useful for when you are trueing is an app called “Shooter”. It is on android or I-phones. I would then take your trued data and covert it into a printed chart of some kind (similar to what is at the beginning of the article) that works for you so you aren’t dependent on a cell phone or other electronics. Also, if you live in an area with big temperature shifts throughout the year (mine is roughly 120 degrees) you might look into using density altitude instead of just range. Although at SDM distances that is probably overkill, since temperature doesn’t seem to affect my loads until around 500 yards or so.

    • That chart makes me sad. Sad I didn’t think of it, that is.

      Well done.

      As an aside, one of the pleasant side effects of putting a free floated Daniels rail on my M4 was it cut my groups in half. All I wanted was more room for my paws.

  3. Interesting note on potential government response.

    Watch the video on the AIM (American Indian Movement) in South Dakota in the 70’s.

    The FBI acquired 15 + M!!3 with .30 cal machinguns mounted. Over 10k rounds exchanged in the standoff.

    Waco it was armored vehicles and automatics.

  4. Stoner platform, its not even a contest, this is just hurdling the dead and kicking the wounded.

    Since its settled then the nits can be picked, barrel length (chrome lined bore and chamber of course)trigger type and the bigger nit the scope type are to be debated.

  5. Amen on this dead seriously common sense practical essay.
    It’s the shit to fight and live by.

  6. I’m a noob. Started shooting, seriously, ~3 years ago. I have zero military training.

    From gunboat.net 13:15 03FEB2014

    55gr X-TAC 5.56 $0.37/rnd
    77gr 5.56 SMK $0.79/rnd

    145gr Wolf 7.62N $0.44/rnd
    168gr 7.62N SMK $1.21/rnd

    150gr Prvi 300WM $1.00/rnd
    190gr 300WM SMK $2.42

    250gr Lapua .338LM $3.00/rnd
    250gr .338LM SMK $3.30/rnd

    Helen uses the Tavor 5.56 bullpup because it reduces the physical demands on her. Thanks Max for pushing me on this.

    I am using an M1A (.308)in a Rogue bullpup chassis, because it does significantly reduce the effort required to lug it around and I believe that it increases the speed with which I can point it. More importantly within 600yds it can turn 5.56 cover into concealment. Thank you JC Dodge! To me, being able to shoot through, what most would consider safe cover, is priceless.

    As the M1A will eat the cheapest steel cased ammo, my training cost penalty is O(0.10/rnd). The extra weight is an issue. But at 59, so is my belly fat.

    With cheap ammo, the M1A is ~ 3MOA. So even out to 400yds it’s still about a minute of man. In my AWIL, Area Where I Live, longest straight line shot is ~400yds. My bolt .308 is subMOA with Federal 168 HPBT, (cold bore 0.25″R @ 100yds) and with my spotter accurately calling the wind, effective to 800+yds.

    We have really only one other person in my AWIL that is serious, and he hasn’t been to any SUT training, but great PT. He shoots 7.62short. So a common logistic solution? It would be a good idea.

    I am anxious to get my TRG42 .338LM out this year. But she is an expensive date, no matter what you shoot.

    Joe

    • Joe: my take: where are you going with this? My random thoughts, in no particular order:
      Longest shot -400 yards, Helen with 5.56, you guys are a team. Swapping mags between the two of you? Yes 7.62 is a heavier round, it will tear shit up. Its not magic though, it doesn’t turns all cover into concealment, and 5.56 goes through a lot of what many would consider to be cover as well – witness the trees at my training site.
      At the end of the day, you need to do what you want to do, it is after all supposed to be a free country! However, wife with 5.56, you with .308? If they are shooting at you, then you have to be able to see them. If you can see them, you can shoot them. If you are exhausted, after carrying all that .308 around, then there is less chance you will hit them. As Misfit is fond of saying, it only counts if you hit them, however big your round is.
      Food for thought.
      The amount of times, after the Brit Army went from 7.62 (FN FAL ‘SLR’) to the SA80 in 5.56, you would hear all this stuff about how the SLR would shoot people to pieces. You would think 5.56 is a BB gun. It’s folklore. Urban Legend.

      • Also, there’s more to the logistics of the weapon system than the cost of feeding it ammo. Magazines cost money, then there’s the cost of the weapon itself, availability and cost of aftermarket parts and accessories, mag pouches, cleaning gear, simplicity and ease of maintenance.

        So there are two ways to approach this: you can work backward from your chosen caliber or you can look at all the other stuff and see where it takes you regarding caliber.

      • I should have said zero military training where I received a paycheck!

        As for the .308, more PT! 2x the PT!

        Looking forward to scheduling CRCD in March and the May Patrol we are already signed up for.

        Joe

    • I’m tired of hearing that NATO 7.62 turns cover to concealment, and at 600 yards, really? Maybe if you are shooting an m240.

      I’m sorry, but 7.62 doesn’t penetrate thick tree trunks, rocks, or a good amount of earth with any kind of magic that I have seen.

      Sure it goes through small trees. Same with 7.62×39, 5.45×39, and 5.56. Maybe it extends the range out on small trees, but at the 600 and 800 yards I hear all the time?

      What cover does it penetrate at 600-800 yards exactly? Or 400 yards for that matter? Anybody have any proof? Shoot a video. I would love to see it.

      It just sounds like more folklore to me, the same as the blown off body parts, or knocking people back with a 45. Besides, if it’s cover and it’s being penetrated by a 308 hundreds of yards away, wouldn’t that mean you are actually not behind cover?

  7. For long range I have found the KAC ballistics app to get me first round hits with 308 out to 800, this is of course with a 13 lb 26 inch bull barrel bolt gun handloads, which is hardly useful for SUT. Not really shootable offhand. We also can’t always assume we will have access to nice shiny iPhones at the range to tell us our dope and integrate our atmospherics.

    At the CRCD this weekend during the squad attack drill I was impressed by the firepower of the 4 man team using mostly 5.56. For all the Internet wankers going on about how puny it is, after seeing that exercise I don’t really care anymore. If they saw how well these guys suppressed and how they were able to cadence their fire, they would realize it sucks to be shot at with 5.56. A lot.

  8. The article has a few useful facts/nuggets. I get the feeling it was written in response to some question/discussion/argument, that would add some context to it.

  9. One minor quibble: MK262 generally runs about 2700 MV(my last load I chrono’d averaged 2960 from an 18″ MK12) my 175 SMK M118LR loaded chrono’d about 2550 from my 18″ OBR, basically I have the same numbers for that as your put up.

    The drop between the two loads is almost identical, to the point where I use the same holds for elevation. Only catch is the 5.56 has about a 30% or so higher hold for windage, not really a big deal until you get out further and as long as you’re somewhat decent with wind calls you should be able to easily make first round hits out to 5-600 or so.

    Generally speaking 5.56mm will handle 99.9% of my needs. As a ranch owner, whenever I build a new AR it almost always turns out to be some type of ‘Recce’ variant; a 16″ quality barrel with a decent 1-4/1-6 variable with MK262 or 70 gr TSX loads can handle a surprisingly wide array of scenarios.

  11. This will piss off a lot of the key board commandos but here it is. In my entire time in the military over seas i never heard or saw one guy laugh after being hit by a 5.56 rd. Heard some screaming though. I did however see a guy take a 7.62 x 51 through ths upper chest/shoulder and keep on moving. To fast or hot a rd? Maybe. Didnt hit anything hard to open it up? Maybe. Dont know. Is 5.56 better? Nope. Neither is better. It all boils down to logistics and application. As stated by Misfit and repeated by Max, it doesnt count if you dont hit. But also it counts where ya hit.
    As an aside thought, in an adrenaline pumpin fight for your life your fine motor skills take a shit. More rounds means more chances.

  12. While I have a great respect for the 7.62×51,, and my HK 91 and Izzy HB FAL,, I have to admit that my 61 years are starting to make the 5.56 a bit more attractive to my tired old bones.
    Conversely, the HK 91 with the Zeiss Orion 80 Fero Z51 will shoot sub MOA, and will do so with absolute reliability, which makes it hard to pass up if SHTF.
    On the other hand,, I love all my children.

  13. Allow me to start by saying I am in complete agreement with the concept being discussed. My group has standardized with the 5.56 AR with most folks using 16″ carbines with either Aimpoints or Acogs (TA33 on mine). In addition there are three of us that have SPR rifles which we shoot and train with. In addition we have standardized on .40 Glocks (user picks their model) but everyone carries spare 15 rd mags as they are universal to all .40 Glocks. A few years ago when we standardized it was tough to do as I owned a lot of different calibers and platforms. I sold off all but one or two of the unique rifles (sentimental value) but with the funds generated I was able to fund other very important preparations. It has also greatly simplified ammo/mags/spare parts purchased. Not to mention practice is more effective as I shoot only one or two platforms.

    All that aside, and sorry for the long rant, I have to comment that 3000 fps for the 77 5.56 load is rather elevated. I fully believe in the 5.56 but feel it is important to compare apples to apples here. The velocity should be closer to 2750 fps (see Blackhills 5.56 load for example). I am sure a hot handload and/or a barrel 24″ or longer would get you over 2800 or close to 2900 but neither of these criteria are fair in this example. With the velocity of 2750 the energy at 300 would be about 690 fpe. Again love the blog, this thread and what Max and Misfit are doing for everyone.

  14. It is the shooter, not the cartridge. If you do not hit the target, your effort is meaningless.

    For those of you who want to “turn cover into concealment,” good luck. You still must hit the armed combatant sitting behind that magically shredded “concealment”!

    Sub-MOA, from what? Is that the shooter or the gun? Can you, the shooter, do that after a 10km hump, under fire, or is that from a bench position after a good breakfast and no caffeine?

    Gentlemen, forgive my impertinence, please. You all have important skills that are critical to your survival under hostile circumstances. Please focus on that and let go of your emotional bond to what can only be described as a fixation on caliber.

    The rifle is a tool. You should be able to manipulate your chosen platform under the most extreme circumstances when you are tired, hungry, with hands swollen and arms throbbing from the weight of your ruck. You must be able to use your sights when your eyes are stinging from dirt and sweat and hell is flying around you just as if you were on the rifle range for an afternoon of easy targets.

    The only way to achieve this is through continuous practice that incorporates ruck marches with shooting, fire and movement that includes shooting and IMT rushes between cover. It takes practice, practice, practice, and then the real training begins.

    Again, I apologize because I do not intend to offend. But, if you can not manipulate the fire control mechanisms of your platform, keep it in operation, if you don’t know your platform by touch and smell, if it is not as familiar to you as your own hand, you need a lot more time working with your rifle. When you get to that point with your rifle, then, remember that caliber is irrelevant.

        • Post it twice, and replace “rifle” with “handgun” in one version, and you will have magically solved BOTH platform/caliber debates…. :)

          Also, as an aside, I agree with what Tim said, in that the velocity may be slightly overstated. I also think the accuracy may be slightly overstated- I mean, who here has thousands of rounds of SMK tipped ammo? My bet is most are shooting (especially now) “whatever is cheap”, aka wolf, pmc, etc…

          That being said, I also agree with the overall point of the article.
          I think the 308 AR-pattern rifles are a great idea, but there’s a lot to be said for standardization with a more affordable (ammo & logistics) weapon, as well as using something that fits one’s AO/terrain.
          And that’s why I scrapped the ultra-precision bolt-gun build I had planned a year or so ago….

          • No, that’s not true. The 1911 firing the .45 ACP is so powerful, accurate, deadly, and awesome that a single well placed shot by a US GI would have taken down Godzilla before he wrecked Tokyo. You just can’t say that about a Glock or about 9mm. :o)

          • Standardization within the team is just the first step. Consider, too, the potential benefit of using the same round as the opposition.

            In the Falklands War, 2PARA expended far more ammunition in their initial assault on Darwin than could be resupplied. They still needed to conduct the assault on Goose Green.

            “So, after the Harrier attack, I gathered everyone together and told them to scrounge all the ammunition they could find. They went off and plundered everything and carried back about seven or eight thousand Argentinian rounds, which fortunately were the same caliber as ours.” Maj. John Crosland, MC, 2 PARA.

            http://www.paradata.org.uk/article/1613/related/38367

  16. I agree, that the caliber debate can get ridiculous at times, but ask yourself this, why does the US mil use 300 win mag for a it’s dedicated sniper round now, instead of 308? A 600 meter energy comparison for both rounds is the difference between a 357 mag, and a 44 mag. Most people might think they are similar, but they’re not, and there is a reason the 44 is used more for big game hunting, it’s a more reliable stopper if you do your part. I agree with Max on the cover/concealment issue to a point, but there’s a reason the mil still has 7.62N machine guns, and hasn’t switched that role to a 5.56 belt fed. Logistically,. If I’m with a squad that has 5.56, I’ll have a 5.56. If we have a few 7.62N , well then that’s what I’ll carry. Nothing in the firearms world is “Gods own laser”, no matter what feats you’ve heard or seen them perform. Everything is a compromise, the 5.56 happens to be an excellent compromise for those who have thought out their logistical and realistic physical capabilities. As I told people in Max’s class, know your capabilities and limitations, and always strive to push and increase them. So your saying a .45 won’t stop godzilla with one shot…..?

    • Granted, the 300 Win Mag shoots flat and hits like a sledge hammer. So do a number of other cartridges, but logistically, they are unsupportable. That is really the problem that we are facing here. In SHTF scenario, the freefor will lack the logistics infrastructure to support platforms that are “more exotic”.

      Squad size elements will likely have just four calibers on which to standardize – 5.56, 7.62N, .45 ACP, and 9mm. I recognize that Tokarovs and AKs will be plentiful but but ammunition resupply will come from what people bring with them and what can be grabbed from .gov supplies, initially. If one accepts that as the starting point of the argument, standardization will begin with a caliber. Because most platforms will likely be magazine fed, and because magazines are not universally interchangeable, platform becomes the next logical standard item.

      This is where platform capability comes into the discussion. What roles and missions will be assigned to freefor organizations and which platforms most effectively support the roles and missions?

      Current .mil has the logistics tail support a variety of platforms. Freefor will lack that luxury.

      In the debate between the effectiveness and purposeful employment of the M240 and the M249, I am not sure which way I lean. I see the debate as more about maximum effective range than other points. In the suppressive fire role both give the employer the ability to develop violent aggressive supporting fires which allows the SU the ability for movement and ruthless exploitation of opfor.

      I am interested to read your thoughts on this subject.

    • Sir:

      I’m sure that you know that there are a number of respected members of the sniper community who think the selection of .300 WM was a mistake, starting with the Chandler brothers. Not that it does not offer capability beyond the .308, but that it is logistically insupportable for the military. I’m told that a .300 WM loses its long range edge within 1500 to 2000 rounds. Today, that’s only money and time to replace a barrel, bad enough by itself. In the context of irregular warfare, with the possibility of a complete breakdown of manufacturing capability, it becomes a serious problem. I’d rather have a caliber that gives 4x longer useful life, like the .308, or any of several 7mm(7-08 or 280) or 6.5 caliber (.260 or 6.5 Creedmore) or even a .30-06 or a 5.56 all of which offer barrel life in the range of 7-10k rounds, than a magnum caliber that eats powder and barrels.

      I’ve never shot a radioactive dinosaur with a .45, so I can’t comment on that, but I think I remember that naval gunfire did not have much effect on Godzilla. You may want to look around for a Gustav….

  17. This is the crux of the issue. Weapons type and caliber are meaningless compared to actual skill in unconventional warfare.

    Savages with bolt action rifles have held off high-tech armies with courage and rugged terrain.

    Fat-asses with pet hunting rifles do not qualify. Fanboys with the latest rifles and accessories don’t apply.

    As a practical matter, most folks thrown into a U/W situation don’t have the luxury of debating their choices of weapons and equipment. Since we seem to be in this unique position, it’s easy to get wrapped up in the arguments and lose sight of the objective. Like the man said, whatever you pick, go out and train with it, and get good with it.

    • You know it’s funny, as I sat here contemplating this thread, I was thinking there is a Walmart not far from my house, where I could conceivably walk in with a credit card and buy everything I needed to survive and fight. A nice AR, ammo, food, water, boots, clothing and equipment. It might not be the best brand out there but it would do. Practically speaking, if the shit hit the fan, and you could make it to any good outdoor gear store, you would have most everything you would need to survive. But the knowledge and wisdom to use that stuff can’t be picked up overnight, as it were. So why are we so wrapped up in what we can so easily obtain, and overlooking that which will be priceless?

      A man once said, if it’s my life I’m talking about, I don’t mind paying $400.00 for a pair of boots. Well, I would change that to if it’s my life I’m talking about, I don’t mind paying $400.00 for the training I’m gonna need.

  18. What ever the rifle in my case it needs optics, its an eyesite issue. When you get bifocals its optics city. God bless red dot sites otherwise its Hellen Keller on the trigger in my case.

  19. Theoretically, the article is correct. In a flat world against soft human targets, the 5.56 is all you need inside 600 yards. Hard to argue that.
    But introduce light brush (thistle, sticker bush, or the like) and the 5.56 is veered off course so easily that you will miss or keyhole strike. And forget about wood. Accuracy reliability goes to zero with any light cover… Especially if mid field. If you need to punch through a car door first, extended yardage will yaw 5.56 too early.
    Have the option for 7.62 if the mission calls for it.
    Put a cardboard target 15 yards past some blackberry brush and fire a five round group (20 yards total). You will see the results when you check the target.
    The authors point is still valid though.

    • It’s a 2-way range. If 5.56 sucks as much as you believe, I’m glad that’s what opfor will probably have.

      Personally I think 5.56 is the best choice of caliber, and it has little to do with ballistics of any kind. When you consider 99% of your time is spent humping this stuff, you need to consider what effect that will have on you as well. You can conceivably hump upwards of 300 rds of 5.56 as opposed to 150 rds of 7.62. Mobility vs firepower. Ever done a forced march with ruck, M-14 and just 5 mags? It sucks.

      The key questions is, can you run your 7.62 at one of Max’s classes and keep up with the 5.56 guys? If so, drive on my brother.

      • “Ever done a forced march with ruck, M-14 and just 5 mags? It sucks.”

        Yes. Forty-something years ago. In the rain where the cotton duck gear soaked up the rain drops. And I still remember the “suck”.

        Getting old sucks, too. But it sucks much less with an AR different materials for gear.

        • Then you are probably the only one here that knows what a field transport pack was. And how your spare pair of socks worked as padding on those spaghetti straps.

          And the ALICE is so bad. Oh the horror.

  20. Everything is about compromise. The key is to use experience, training, and good advice (purpose of this blog) to make your compromises fit the mission, and your realistic capability. (Make the best compromise) This applies to everything you’ll do (from a team combatant perspective) , so don’t get wrapped around the “This is the best” mentality, unless it has compromise at the end of the sentence. It’s all subjective, and your better off choosing the multi tool everyone else has, than to pick a sykes fairbain dagger for a specific purpose (unless your mission dictates the need), and it sucks at everything else. This is one of the reasons people need training. Manuals and youtube don’t generate the “suck” you’ll experience in realistic training, and this experience will translate into the realization that compromises need to be made, to be as effective as possible.

    • There’s as true a post as you will ever find on the internet, for sure.

      The “S” factor. Talking about ballistics in a vacuum, as it were, is meaningless. Hump that shit and we’ll talk.

  21. There is much to recommend a common platform (using the same ammo and magazine) between team-mates. Once the decision is made to make commonality the priority, then everything else is secondary. There is still more sense from a logistics and maintenance standpoint in using a widely available platform. Both of the above factors militate strongly toward the AR-15 in 5.56.

    Once that decision is made, match grade 5.56 ammunition and good optics in the hands of a good shooter can extend the hitting capability of the AR-15 to surprising ranges. I have personally seen AR-15 shooters hit better than 75% of targets at unknown distances from 500 to 1200 yards in less than three tries. Nor is my experience an anomaly since most winning High-Power competitors use ARs these days; the long range capability of the AR cannot reasonably be debated.

    Moreover, lower recoil, lighter weight rifle and ammunition, easily switchable upper receivers to easily adapt to different situations, easily adjustable stock length, the ability to attach all sorts of useful accessories, and good ergonomics are all added advantages to the AR.

    I say all this as somebody who does not like the AR-15; my early experience with the M-16 was negative, and there are a number of things about the AR that I dislike to the present day. *I* would strongly prefer an FN FAL or a LRB M25 in 7.62.

    (actually, if I were in charge of the US military I’d mandate the M14 or the FAL in .260 Remington or .260 Creedmore…) But that is not the point. What I think is optimal for me as an individual has nothing to do with the ability to maximize the fighting power of groups of armed citizens, young and old, male and female. Anyone who cannot physically manage an AR probably cannot manage a center fire rifle of any sort. If you agree that commonality of platform is the first priority for a team, then it is extremely difficult to argue the selection of the AR-15 in 5.56.

    You take that decision, and you train to overcome the other issues. There is no such thing as a perfect rifle; EVERY weapon has its pluses and minuses. Your job is to learn the characteristics and plan to use the pluses and avoid the minuses.

    Do I think the AR is a great weapon? No.
    Would I recommend the AR as a great choice for a group of Patriots? YES!

  22. Absolutely to all comments after mine. I submit that in the real world a 7.62 is big and ammo count per pound is less than half.
    I whole heartedly agree that 5.56 is the supreme compromise. Additionally I run a 5.56 platform with a 490 round count.
    I may have overstated the point. The deflection dynamic of the 5.56 can and should be accommodated by appropriate fire technique such as Destruction of Cover and Volume of Fire.
    In the real world, if you need to fire ONE round only, due to Far Ambush concerns or whatever, it is nice to have a 7.62 on the team. It is superior.
    But yes, MaxV’s method of volume of fire more than adequately addresses and that has been proven in real fights.
    I don’t even own a 7.62. My heart is with the AR!