Further thoughts on Camouflage
My previous post on ‘Gear & Camo’ HERE drew a response about camouflage. This is a very subjective topic and I notice several comments regarding the Vietnam Era Tiger Stripe that I mentioned I was going to try out. I have a few more comments on the camo topic, which I will put down here:
Vietnam Era Tiger Stripe
Obviously, camo is a personal subjective topic that will depend on a lot of things such as your AO, what you can afford or are willing to spend money on, and what sort of profile or ’image’ you want to portray. So, to a certain extent, camo is a little like tactics, and what are tactics like? Assholes, because everyone has one!
So first off, don’t invest all your confidence in your camo. You will do very well in just tan/natural colored clothing matched roughly to the environment that you are working in i.e. greens/browns for woods, more tan/coyote for desert etc.
The pattern on camouflage clothing is only really designed to work at closer ranges, out to around 25 meters. After that is is just the general color of the camo that counts. An example is the British DPM (disruptive pattern material) which will only disrupt the observer out to around 25 meters and after that you become just a blob colored to the mean color of the material i.e. a greeny browny blob. So don’t get too tied up testing camo to long ranges, because it really will just be an average colored blob as you get further away.
British DPM – now replaced
So don’t get too tied up in it. You can decide if you want to wear a pattern that is good for multiple environments such as a multi-cam, or specific environments, such as a woodland camo, or no environments save gravel pits such as the ACU! Where you will really go wrong is wearing a pattern that is designed for a specific environment in the wrong environment, where the base colors are just wrong. An example would be wearing the older style desert uniforms in the woods – its mostly tan/yellow, and would not mix well with the greens/browns in the woods.
Multi-Cam
Don’t forget all the other reasons why things are seen: shape, shine, shadow, surface, spacing, silhouette, movement, aircraft, thermal. Don’t forget use of terrain masking using cover and concealment.
The other side of this is that most of these camo materials are actually designed to be military uniforms. To that extent, they have a ‘look.’ I am definitely not at all about being ‘dress right dress’ but there are two sides to this. If you choose to wear a certain type of camo uniform, then you are taking on a look. This can be good, or bad. You will not always be hiding in the woods and if you decide to outfit your unit in a certain style of camo then you will inherit the profile that goes with that style of camo. Also, armies use distinctive dress and items of uniform to designate elitism and to engender pride and competition. You can ignore this or use it to your advantage.
As an example, I am running tactical instruction courses in the woods so I was looking for a BDU camo pattern that looks smart and works well; both as a personal image while stood in front of people instructing and also tactically in the woods. TS seems to fit that. Why? Because it’s good camo, maybe not perfect, but it also looks sharp. Does that mean I’m all about looking snappy? No, but it’s a factor.
Let’s look at that from a different viewpoint: I could wear British DPM, but I don’t have all my old stuff with me. I could have gone with woodland BDU, which would also work well, but that seems a little done. Why is that? Because it has an image that I don’t necessarily want to follow. Now, those that know me know that I am a fan of the Militia; we are all in it after all, but we might want to get the image right and break from previous bad images.
What does Mr. Sheeple think when he thinks of the Militia, due to all that bad PR, deserved or not:
1) FBI/ATF raids on extremist compounds?
2) White supremacists: therefore he/she/it must vote libtard to assuage his/her/it’s liberal guilt?
3) Huge fat dude rolled into a set of woodland BDUs, busting at the seams?
So if you are a Militia unit or a resistance fighter, at a gun show or moving into a village to meet the local elders and try to establish an AO, think about the impression you give. Maybe something different, such as Vietnam TS, or multicam, or something else, would be better than woodland BDUs. Just a thought.
The other side of that is that it’s not just about ‘looking good’ but about being good and acting professionally. A large part of your torso at least will likely be covered with gear, such as your PC/web gear/vest and that has to be a certain color. That’s the problem the military is having with bringing in the new camo patterns – they want different versions for different environments, but they have bid for one standard pattern for gear in all environments. Wearing your gear is a large part of your visual signature, so that needs to be camouflaged. You can use spray paint to adapt or alter your gear accordingly. And that is not even to mention mud and dirt that will get on your gear and mask its color as you conduct operations, which is mostly a good thing as it makes you the same color as the dirt.
Although an irregular unit will not likely standardize ‘uniforms’ even though they may standardize gear to be carried and locations for items, there is something to be said for a level of standardization of ‘uniform’ if it generates esprit de corps. Having a certain camo pattern may help: it may help with interactions with locals, reduction of friendly fire and even a psychological effect on the enemy if your unit gains a reputation. This is something that you can take from regular forces and not ruin by going to the extreme of being fully ‘dress right dress’ and bringing the bullshit factor; rather utilize it sensibly to your own benefit.
But just wearing a uniform won’t make it happen – ‘all the gear no idea’ – if you want to ‘talk the talk’ be able to ‘walk the walk’. Make sure your equipment, carriage of weapons, deportment and behavior is professional. Make sure you are professional and tactical when conducting operations. You can give the Iraqis/Afghanis U.S. surplus camo, but that does not make them a professional force.
So what am I saying, just to clarify before someone gets the wrong idea and goes off on a tirade.
1) Camouflage clothing is an aid to remaining concealed. Don’t get stuck on it.
2) Camouflage clothing has a whole host of other factors and implications, such as ‘look’ and impression given.
3) Give thought to how you and your team will appear to others who observe you, both in times of peace and war.
I’m not against woodland BDUs – if I try the TS and don’t like it, I’ll probably try those – it’s $50 for a full pants/shirt outfit, so it doesn’t break the bank. What I won’t be wearing is my issue ACU’s, I can tell you that much. My gear is mainly multi-cam and I may spray that up a little with more green/brown to make it match the woods a little better. Other than that, I’m not going to go down a rabbit hole with anyone over the ultimate best camo, because I’m just not going to do it.
However, I would be interested in replacement ideas for the standard militia uniform. Any suggestions to move away from the woodland BDU image? Does Vietnam Tiger Strip cut it? Please leave comments – we may start something on the interwebs.
Frankly I think that if you have an organized militia and are trying to get your point across or recruit at a gunshow or other “normal” venue (vs. out & out training events), ditch the battle-dress uniform of whatever ilk. If you want to be taken seriously, biz casual (e.g., dockers and a shirt WITH A COLLAR) is more likely to get you a hearing. Just a thought.
I’d agree. I steer very clear of the ‘uniformed militia’ recruiting tables at gun shows….typically in ‘tacticool’ clothing, huge, Big Mac fed middles, and within earshot of at least one or two fibbies wanting to get a phone pic of anyone taking the literature….
I’m with badger on this, cammies are for OPs. For being seen by the public, look civie sharp. Even blue jeans and a nice shirt with clean boots will win friends. I’m all for “jungies” in the bush. But as you Brits used to say “brothel creepers won’t do in the mess” –Ray
I live in the middle of soccermomatopia and when I go out to the trails and do some conditioning hiking with my ALICE frame and pack it and the accessories they are solid colors like Coyote Brown and Olive Drab, and no crossways looks from Mrs Respectable. I think anything other than Woodland BDU is extravagantbut that is my .02, and certainly not a scientifically done marketing campaign.
Look at nature….deer, fox, coyote, rabbits, fox squirrels. Lately I’m finding that coyote brown seems to blend in just about everywhere. A combination of coyote brown (not light khaki) pants and an olive or forest green shirt will do nicely if you’re on a budget or have your kit looking as civilian as possible.
Where we’re at, MC works in just about all seasons, but obviously doesn’t blend into urban environments too well. Surprisingly enough, wearing coyote brown pants with green shirts hardly ever gets a second look…..
Good subject!
after a while even dirty blue jeans start to blend in. i was thinking brown or dark gray dickies. be easier to explain if caught than cammies/tac’d out. i looked some at other insurgents and saw lots of jeans, work pants, with button down work type shirts, at least ones that operated near civilization. once they were deep on the woods everybody wears woodland it seems. maybe a good arguement not to? my fave is german flectarn. works pretty well here. hard to find the pants though.
I vote for Multicam uniforms. Readily available in all sorts of clothing and gear.
Although if you want to be really sharp, A-Tac or Kryptek Highlander would be nice
Corps insignia will of course be a large letter V.
Papa Doc
I agree with Badger. If things were to go bad and local defense organizations crop up then a locally unique uniform would be essential. That is if a good reputation and professionalism is demanded to wear the uniform, this has to be enforced somehow or the crims will use the uniform to do what crims do. Then you can say the Tiger guys are fair guys and take care of business or those guys in ACU are shady, stay away from them. There has to be enough resolve to ruthlessly punish anyone that attacks one of your members or the uniform may become a choice target rather than avoided. It would be a calming factor to know whom you are dealing with just by sight. The reason the Geneva Convention allows, as I understand it, that anything can be done to combatants caught out of uniform, even summary execution, is you cannot tell civilians from combatants and civilians get hammered because of this. Just my thought on this. As far as uniform choice, I like the old time Boy Scout look. Boy Scouts are not intimidating and good to have around.
I’ll second (or third, fourth, etc. at this point) what Badger started-
Full camo in a (current) public venue is just bad- makes one look like a total tacticool tool. If one is recruiting/repping an organization, keep it normal.
And definitely don’t have some super fat dude out front- nothing says “do not take us seriously- run away!” like that. And woodland BDUs…. haha
And sadly now it seem multicam has been co-opted by the tacticool masses, so you’re probably fudged using that too.
Also, Max, I hate to dig on you, but I don’t think TS camo is going to help you get away from the “moronlitia” image- much as I actually personally love tigerstripe camo, there’s just as many retards associated with that as woodland BDU’s.
Frankly, I’m kind of liking ATACS- why? Look at it. It’s simply dirty Coyote brown or OD/Foliage green. You can probably make it yourself on any of the above solid colors with anything that makes paint splotches, like a walmart bag or such.
Which is why I like any gear in solid “earthtone” colors. They look nice and neat now, and can be hand-camo’d later if needed- much like a rifle.
I don’t have a link handy, but I believe Mosby from MG had some thoughts on this (may not be helpful to some here on the same page already) a while back- much of what helped sway me (and a good dose of common sense… haha)towards basic “low profile” solid colors.
As far as a full-on UW-style situation, I have a feeling that A) a recognizable uniform will just get you shot at faster and B) the official “G” uniform will be “anything and everything”.
Maybe some sort of other patch/sign/etc. would be in order- like some cartels do down south. Stuff like a certain color shoelaces and such.
Of course I’m no expert, so…
I live in south Florida. I have tiger stripe BDU’s. One of the main reasons I chose tiger stripe is because nobody else uses it. I also personally prefer it and I don’t want to even possibly look like some agency. With black boots, cap and web gear it does have a sharp, distinctive look. Yeah, I know, conventional wisdom says that you’re supposed to avoid black. Personally, I could care less. If necessary, I’ll spray paint the web gear to match the BDU’s. But for now, there are others here that are showing interest in my kit because of the way it looks and it’s functionality. I’m willing to do anything that will create interest and spark conversation.
Keep up the good work Max. I really appreciate what you’re doing.
one thought. maybe you don’t want to wear anything the regime might wear. ts would certainly not be regime attire. and adding to what was said above, if i was regime, i’d shoot at anything resembling a rebel uniform. so maybe no uniform would be the uniform. easier to id foe as well. wearing matching camo, bang.
I have plenty of left over woodland BDUs (and 3 color desert DCUs for that matter) that will serve as a combat uniform if necessary, but I’ve been moving toward a more low-key look. I’m more or less on the same page as Defensive Training Group above.
I have several pairs of earth tone colored work pants (dark khaki, OD’ish, etc.) and pair them with muted colored t-shirts and depending on the time of year a light pullover fleece or button up long or short sleeve work shirt. I’ve gotten away from wearing the tacticool hat with velcro patch on the front because it is another target indicator for the watchers; now I just wear a faded old ballcap with a non-descript logo. I’ve transitioned all of my first line gear to coyote, but my 2nd and 3rd line gear is still mostly woodland. The idea is to be able to hit the woodline (or street) with what I’m wearing plus weapon and gear based on METT-TC and do what needs to be done and then do the classic G move of caching gear and blending back in with the people in my AO.
In all honesty, Max, I think the solid color pants and DPM smock or combat shirt look you have going now works fine for the professional instructor mode image you want to portray. I grew up reading all the Vietnam books so I sympathize with the appeal of Tiger Stripe, but I think in this case it’s overkill.
Tiger stripes polarize horizontally.
If the real world shadows are more vertical then what?
Prisoners used to wear horizontal stripes so guards could see them through vertical bars with a glance.
The colors are fine, the polarization is bad.
Paraphrase from Major John Plaster’s Ultimate Sniper.
I’d say tigers are fine for look, but bad for combat.
-flek
It is always better to look good than to fight good.
If I look good, I fight better!
Excellent!
On the PR fron, the Civil Air Patrol has two sets of uniforms. One is very similar to US Air Force uniforms for those members who meat US mil standards of weight and grooming, they are the light blue shirt with black or navy blue pants (I don’t remember) and woodland BDUs and/or green flight suits for ops. The other set of uniforms is for volunteers like me. I have a beard and so I couldn’t wear the Air Force style uniforms so I wore the “corporate” uniforms which are blue polo shirts with logo or white button up shirts (with epulette for insignia) with grey pants or blue BDUs/flight suit.
Max, great topic, I agree with you on the various “professionalism” points you brought up…I noted a few allusions in Patriot Dawn refrencing the Texas Guard.(woodland not I see you!)For public appearances the 511’s and polo shirts are probably best when you need a uniform (ops, etc) I like Tiger Stripe and Flectarn. Both are very effective in mature forrests and very “green backgrounds” (like to get Mosby’s opinion on this one), Tiger carries some reverent sentiments going back to Vietnam, LRRP’s, SOG..and many more.Tiger properly worn by a fit individual looks the most professional.Fleck might be a slightly more effective pattern, but my vote goes for Tiger Stripe.
One of the most distinctive things you can wear to ID yourself to you guys is headgear. A patrol cap has a silhouette(in the dark)and look, distinctive from a ball cap. same as the boonie cap or a watch cap does. One of the reasons we wore an OD patrol cap, with woodland bdu’s was for that very purpose, ID day or night, and it still blends in. As far as the comments on bad rap for different camo patterns goes, a soup sandwich is a soup sandwich, no matter what you put it in. (AR’s and AK’s get a “Bad rap”, are you gonna give that up?) ATAC, Multicam, and whatever they’re callin’ that other new pattern will cost you extra, because of the royalties, and I don’t think paying the extra money (usually 1/3 more) will hide you any better(This is coming from someone who gets it wholesale!). Tactics, training, and practice are your biggest assets, when it comes to hide and seek. As far as the solid colors go, when I teach a wilderness survival class, I wear an OD modified top, and coyote tru spec cargo pants. If I’m in a public forum, I change to an OD colored polo, and I press the cargo pants. For tactical classes I wear woodland bdu’s with the top having modified pockets, and a coyote boonie hat or coyote fleece cap. Equipment is OD or coyote, with spray painting as required. Don’t bake the cake, just lick the icing, The info you need to make an informed decision is out there. Get training, practice what you learn, and if your a militia, have an SOP that EVERYBODY adheres to.
Great designs of camouflage clothes. I want to know more on
Camouflage T-shirt