Why I choose MVT time after time…..

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    • #127133
      BILLY
      Participant

        I am currently sitting on a plane flying home from the Deep South where I just attended a firearms training class put on by a very well regarded training company that travels across the country training civilians, LE, and Fed/military in all types of tactical topics. I had a great time, and learned a lot, but I still felt like it didnt hit on all cylinders and just wasn’t complete. I have been to quite a few places for training and I’ve found there are three types of places to go learn this stuff, you have the LE schools, they are of course most applicable to cops etc, then you have the competition/square range places, they have less to offer serious shooters but of course are catering to people that dont want to run, kneel, or sweat while training, and then finally there is MVT. It’s just not comparable to anything else out there. Max and 1SGT just have this stuff down and if given the option I can’t think of a reason to let someone I care about train anywhere else.
        I walked away from training this last week wondering why nobody else can figure out how to run a carbine?!?!?! I’m not exaggerating, I have yet to find and instructor, much less a student that gets carbines like they do at MVT. Maybe it’s because cops and competitive types are not humping long guns around like soldiers do so they never had to learn it like Max and 1SGT or maybe they are just scary and they want to focus on handguns, but the weird stuff that is being taught, not just done, but TAUGHT, is almost laughable, and is most definitely dangerous when it comes down to running a gun to save your life. And it doesn’t stop at carbines, 1SGT’s handgun training has left more than one person walking away after class thinking “how did i carry this thing for so long without knowing all the stuff Scott just showed me in a few short days” MVT is not just for carbines, it’s basically anything that goes bang!
        Of all the varieties of classes MVT has run from FOF, to CQB, to long range, to the bread and butter CTT/HEAT classes, I’ve never felt in danger but the last two non MVT classes I attended I saw students injured because the systems to keep them safe were not in place or followed. Isn’t coming home in one piece high on everyone’s list of training requirements? You can joke about the “yelling” at MVT all you want but anyone that’s been there knows the yelling is mostly out of fun and when it’s not it is to keep the range safe and to ensure we all go home afterwards.
        So not necessarily a “class review” for a particular MVT class but more so an opinion on the overall system of MVT vs. what else is out there, I felt the need to throw this up. To anyone that hasn’t made it to MVT, you need to get there, it’s unlike anything else available and better than anything comparable. And to anyone that has been to MVT but saw a whiz bang fancy training on YouTube from someone else that you wanted to attend, I can only say, don’t let them untrain any of the good stuff you learned at MVT, and you might want to wear extra soft armor under your plates while you are “training” because your safety has now become your first priority. Thanks MVT for all the great info! Keep it up!

      • #127220
        Max
        Keymaster

          Thank you for this validation review, I appreciate it.

          I have touched on this is recent posts, and over time. It is perplexing, people are living in fantasy denial land. Guys have long said they are surprised the doors of MVT are not being broken down. But it clearly isn’t a case of quality of training, it is sonething else, a weakness in many people who are scared away from real training. A sort of fear of failure, even a fear of facing real reality, that steers them off to these silly classes and playing on the flat range.

          So you have the flat range guys, operating in comfort with cool guy gear, who are not really challenged or doing any sort of realistic or applicable training.

          The flip side is the prepper-denial. This is the attendance on ‘goofy’ classes that in themselves are not really profesional or challenging. I got kicked off Western Rifle for telling it like it is.

          Who recalls the kerfuffle over when I introduced the Rifleman Challenge and JC Dodge claimed it was his idea? This was back at the time when there was a selfless idea to start a cadre of Patriot-community trainers. The Challenge was designed to go beyond MVT, country-wide, but this group of goofy trainers torpedoed that and tried to take over the control of the training group for themselves, excluding MVT. Bssic human jealousy and stupidity.

          Fast forward to them creating a group / blog called American Partisan, which is routinely linked from WRSA, where MVT is banned. Thus the service to patriots / preppers fails because people are steered towards these goofy preppers with nothing remotely on the way of professional training like MVT. If you follow a link from WRSA to an AP article, they always recommend training with one of their goofy trainers. But people are not hearing about MVT.

          But to a large extent, this is what people want, because they can attend bluff training that does not really challenge them or prepare them for combat. It is an ego feel-good. Pure denial. I mean, MVT has a fitness standard to pass! Where should the fat preppers go now? Somewhere to stroke their ego and make them feel they are training.

          Alumni at MVT are a great bunch of people, who understand the path to tactical readiness. They know that one class and no PT does not equal readiness. They know it is a training path that is continuous. They know that is not not necessarily easy, and that ego must be shelved to learn. Sadly, the majority out there are weak, ego driven, and will choose the easiest path.

          • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  Max.
        • #127227
          JohnnyMac
          Participant

            I think one of the major factors is that MVT requires a higher level of commitment and prioritization.

            Many people want to be “operators” without having to work too hard. They are obviously either kidding themselves or allowing instructors to stroke their ego. At the very least, some instructors design courses that facilitate “confidence boosts”, albiet falsely. I think there are MANY people who want to leave a class feeling confident. I would say by-and-large that’s not going to happen leaving an MVT class, at least not until you have a few courses under your belt. That is not a negative reflection on MVT, but rather a testament to MVT not sugar coating both the reality and complexity of tactical situations.

            • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by  JohnnyMac.
            • #127236
              Max
              Keymaster

                Real constructive training versus commercialism / confidence tricketers.

                I see many putting out their shingle as ‘special operators’ simply going the same route as everyone else. Confidence tricksters.

                Either that or ‘goofy tactical’ which veers towards the usual hokey ‘militia’ incompetence.

                But it’s all about the money. That has been the issue turning MVT into a commercial success rather than a personal mission. People have to be motivated.

            • #127237
              Robert Henry
              Participant

                I think one of the major factors is that MVT requires a higher level of commitment and prioritization.

                Many people want to be “operators” without having to work too hard. They are obviously either kidding themselves or allowing instructors to stroke their ego. At the very least, some instructors design courses that facilitate “confidence boosts”, albiet falsely. I think there are MANY people who want to leave a class feeling confident. I would say by-and-large that’s not going to happen leaving an MVT class, at least not until you have a few courses under your belt. That is not a negative reflection on MVT, but rather a testament to MVT not sugar coating both the reality and complexity of tactical situations.

                Very well said.

                In 2009 I attended 17 classes that year. I had spent the 2 year prior getting out of debt and eating rice and beans solely, so I figured I had some catching up to do.

                17 of them via multiple schools/instructors. Only 1 or 2 truly challenged me, the rest were “feel good” deals like you mentioned.

                A lot of the “pew pew” flat range classes are akin to large wall mirrors in a men’s workout gym. Why? Ego.

                Tactical tourists are what populate many of the “pew pew” flat range classes. The guys that want to be made to feel good over learning something new or pushing themselves.

                When you don’t leave a class thinking “I need to work on X” you either have a big ego and can’t see areas to improve on or you just played the ballistic masturbation game. Either one isn’t good for serious students of violence.

                www.jrhenterprises.com

                Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

              • #127238
                DiznNC
                Participant

                  OK I’d like to add my two cents here. I was brought to task on another forum because I had mentioned that I had been to 6 courses at MVT in that past year, and some dudes were like, you’re getting way too wrapped up into one curriculum; you need to expand your horizons and attend other instructors, blah, blah, blah. So OK, I did go out to some other places, and sure there was always something to learn, but I would say this. MVT has continued to evolve and refine the T,T,P’s being taught. Honestly, at this point in time, I don’t think there is any better venue, for the armed civilian to learn a progression of BRM, SUT, patrolling SOP, and finally good FOF training, to validate the whole curriculum.

                  And the issue at hand was Brit-style live fire training, as opposed to US-based blank to live fire progression. Which I was trying to explain to guys who simply wouldn’t allow that another way of doing things, outside of US training doctrine, existed. And methinks this is much of the basis for the friction between Max, and these other guys back in the day. They simply can’t accept the notion that somebody came up with a better way of doing things.

                  And then there’s the ground truth, which is simply this is a lot of work; it takes a lot of time, sweat, and pain to get any good at this. The fact is only a small minority will ever pursue the hard path; most will take the wide road to entertainment training. So to the heart of the matter, the reason folks do not flock to MVT is because the focus is on realistic training, past the square fun zone, and into what you may really need if things go to shit sometime in the future. And that my friends is getting into territory that most folks do not want to enter.

                  The irony is that there is a whole industry devoted to simulated combat games, where folks can fantasize about all this, but when it comes down to actual, realistic training, they recoil in horror at the thought, right. So to our critics I say which is worse, actually preparing for war, where it may be necessary, or just fantasizing about killing folks for entertainment purposes? That’s pretty fucked up, as far as I’m concerned. Doing it to protect family and friends, not so much.

                  But anyways back to the OP, I have discovered in my travels, that if you offer realistic training, or weapons builds, or support gear that actually WORKS, only a small minority of real warriors will embrace them. That is how it’s always been.

                  So be it.

                  Til Vahalla!

                • #127245
                  RobRoy
                  Participant

                    Something about all the other guys is I watch their tactical stuff, listen to their spiels and mostly I ask “and?”

                    That is just my perception, worth what you paid for it.

                  • #127294
                    Rich
                    Participant

                      If I may chime in – aside from some (not all) military training, MVT so far has been the only tactical training I’ve got since GWOT (I enlisted after 9-11, so I’ve known nothing else) which deals with no-shit SUT as a team-oriented exercise meant to get your head in the game and multi-task like a grown-up. The only comparison I can offer are Q Course and follow-on SOT levels, Ranger school, and advanced combat arms pipelines in the Army (ask 1SG) or Joint SOF assault schools. Mind you, these are weeks-months long and take a feck-tonne of dedication, but MVT’s 3-4-day evolutions get you an accurate flavor, AND Max lets you go home after only 9 hours. At this point I won’t bother with other places, just keep anticipating new courses to spring up and begging Max to take my money.

                    • #127299
                      wheelsee
                      Participant

                        I think Diz hit it on the head – “entertainment training”. I’m going to “borrow” this one.

                        If you look at society today, “entertainment X” is at the top of everyone’s requirement list.

                        No TVs in the ED waiting rooms or patient rooms – down-graded. Why? No entertainment while waiting for the doc.

                        Your church doesn’t “entertain” the members and guests? Decrease in attendance and, by default, revenue.

                        Max just keeps hitting the basics, then showing where/how these are applied. Nothing fancy. (KISS anyone). Its almost a psychological phenomenon – the more complicated something is, the more people are attracted to it.

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