Where is the country going to end up?

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  • This topic has 37 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 12 months ago by Lloyd. This post has been viewed 116 times
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    • #85131
      Andrew
      Participant

        Might be worthy of discussion. I feel pretty strongly something will eventually happen, it might not be this, but the Commies are historically big on violence to get their way.

      • #85132
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          First I’ll jump in as a moderator here to prevent possible strife.

          The last time one of this guy’s videos came up Rampantraptor jumped in with this…

          Jesus Christ, is this forum really going alt-right? This guy is a white nationalist. He’s literally making the same arguments the Nazis did to conservatives in Weimar Germany, even down to the eugenics and his “scientific government” arguments.

          Andrew has been a member here for some time and I have never heard him promote views related to Rampantraptor’s quote above.

          I have only cursory knowledge of this John Mark.

          I am quite sure Andrews post is related to the Civil War 2 discussion, not this guy’s personal views any more than Rampantraptor’s Thread It Could Happen Here (podcast) was an endorsement of all of Robert Evans views in that series.

          So let’s use this to discuss the topic…

          Might be worthy of discussion.

          Any concerns related to John Mark or Robert Evans PM me first!

          We have a history of rational discussion and we will keep it that way.

          B-)

          My comments on video will follow later. ;-)

        • #85133
          JohnnyMac
          Participant

            Thanks for sharing. It’s a good topic of discussion. I appreciate the effort this guy might have put into his video, but it all comes across as bullshit:

            1) Left = establishment? there are plenty of people who would gladly support the right side of the establishment
            2) Power grid destruction is good for “the right”? How does no power really help anyone? It doesn’t, and it’s just going to cause havoc- that’s an easy psyop opportunity against the rebels.
            3) The right has more guns? Who cares, even if that is true, “the left” wouldn’t have any trouble getting material support. In fact, they’re probably better at organizing and sustainment.
            4) Why would “trump” votes equate with taking action, or supporting a revolt? His translation of voting numbers has nothing to do with people taking high risk action. I also don’t know where his “30% of people would join a revolt” comes from- and I don’t believe it.
            5) Police/military- I don’t think they’re going to care whether someone is right or left. I think unrest is going to be met equally, right and left.
            6) Infrastructure not being able to be brought back? Repairing isn’t going to be able to be done because rebels will disrupt it? I’m not so sure on that.
            7) Discussion of 4th gen warfare: Barbarism on behalf of the rebels, or simply the hassle they could cause for people who just want to go about their normal lives- isn’t going to win support to the cause. The rebels aren’t going to know more about 4th gen warfare than “the left”.

            …admittedly, at 25 minutes, I didn’t want to waste anymore of my time

            Pretty consistently he’s starting from a scenario pretty late in a UW campaign. The chances of a resistance getting rubbed out BEFORE that point are incredibly high.

            Most people just want to be fat and happy. Most people aren’t willing to risk their freedom/lives/families to fight “the establishment”. Modern civil war can get REALLY ugly. It also makes the country weak and an obvious playground for foreign powers/influence.

          • #85134
            Andrew
            Participant

              Joe (G.W.N.S.) I never heard of this guy before I stumbled on this video today. All I heard listening to it was left vs right (or however you wish to classify it). I watched the whole thing and did not hear anything that could be considered racist or anything near that sort of crap.

              My wife’s family is originally from Mexico. I’ve lived on the border for nearly 40 years. I have lived and worked with other so called minorities all my live. I started in the Navy at 18 and am pushing 70 this year and working as an EMT, fixing folks of all colors and flavors.

              None of that changes that I think (and worried for my kids and grandkids) that if this crap keeps going things will get ugly.

              The guy’s numbers seem legit is why I posted. :good:

              Also, hell yes I would prefer to sit back fat, dumb and happy. But, given the way the Left likes to play I can see situations in big cities where the Right siders might not have the option of sitting and doing nothing. The possibility that self defense actions can happen. And the media will crap all over themselves exploiting it.

              That will further polarize things. The folks going against the grain may or not be in the military, but I suspect many LEO’s (Fed, State, and Local) will not switch sides, away from the establishment, simply to protect their retirement.

            • #85135
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                Andrew I never had any doubt, just trying to be proactive to prevent possible misunderstanding!

                Haven’t had a chance to listen beyond the initial introduction I will soon and yes my two cents in.

                I have experience with these assessments along these lines.

                It’s kind of a big subject to throw into such a limited product, but we’ll see.

              • #85136
                Lloyd
                Participant

                  First, I am the “villain” who posted John Mark’s videos in the past…

                  Second, I’m not a “racist”, but I don’t have a problem with the scientific reality of differences between people, and the fact that groups of people behave in ways that help “their group”.

                  Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, I’ll reference a 20-something year old book, written by a couple of “liberals”:

                  https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the fourth turning&qid=1560552444&s=gateway&sr=8-1

                  You MUST read this book to have any kind of realistic appraisal of what is going on in the world, and what is going on in this country. “Generational theory” is reality… Everything that has happened in the last 20 years, and everything that is happening today, tracks with “The Fourth Turning”.

                  As it relates to John Mark’s videos, his “theory” tracks one possible alternative. He’s not WRONG, he’s just tracking one of multiple alternatives. Reading “The Fourth Turning” will put all of this in perspective… Bottom line is that, in the next 3-4 years, we are almost 100% guaranteed to have a MAJOR realigning event, on a scale with Pearl Harbor and WWII. The only real question is whether that will be a giant global war, or a civil war, or a combination of both. One of those alternatives is almost 100% set in stone!

                  MVT Texas 2015-2020
                  Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                • #85137
                  veritas556
                  Participant

                    Regardless of which straw breaks the camels back”, what comes out the other side (socially/politically) will likely be worse. At least for those who understand and value what it means to be “free”. You certainly cannot force people to be free. One must seek it and embrace the responsibilities which come with it. Reality is, there are too few of us left.

                    All you can do is prepare physically, mentally and provisionally to be in a position to have a chance at riding out whatever is thrown our way. So it is useful to pay attention to the probabilities of various scenarios and leverage yourself accordingly.

                  • #85138
                    Andrew
                    Participant

                      Any scenario except maybe the 2nd Coming will be rife with informers…choose your friends wisely.

                    • #85139
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        In the short term I believe a Leftwing insurgency is more plausible. With the propaganda that Trump is the ultimate threat and fake polls showing Trump has already lost. The Left is being setup for an extreme meltdown in the case of a Trump victory 2020.

                        A socialist victory whether 2020 or beyond will certainly lead to increased pressure due to Socialist agendas.

                        Beyond a firearm ban with actual enforcement, things will have to get far worse than before I see a meaningful push for a Rightwing insurgency.

                        The typical so called Rightwing will look for reasons not to turn in such a direction.

                        Of course overlooked by most is the fact that it would only take hundreds to start a serious insurgency regardless of political motivation. Two hundred motivated people could easily change our way of life.

                        This related well to his optimistic right-wing numbers, but as stated 200 would cause major issues, 2000 and the Nation could be brought to its knees.

                        Millions? Well the ruling party couldn’t win, but that doesn’t equate to a insurgent win. Such conflicts can go decades without a clear winner.

                        I can’t see any scenario where Russia supports insurgents regardless of political persuasion.

                        I still lean more towards a unforeseen black swan event as the instigator.

                        Something else not appreciated is the ultimate winner will be decided by a totally different demographic than can even be imagined at this point.

                        A relatively short modern Civil War and we are talking 100,000 deaths, five years plus and we are talking 100,000,000 deaths.

                        Throw in a prolonged power grid collapse of a year or so and 50% of the population dead.

                        So depending on scenario you can see those survivors that pick up the pieces will be a different breed than exists today.

                      • #85140
                        Andrew
                        Participant

                          In the short term I believe a Leftwing insurgency is more plausible. With the propaganda that Trump is the ultimate threat and fake polls showing Trump has already lost. The Left is being setup for an extreme meltdown in the case of a Trump victory 2020.

                          They have been working on the insurgency since before Trump got elected. It just hasn’t gone major league dynamic…yet

                          [/quote]A socialist victory whether 2020 or beyond will certainly lead to increased pressure due to Socialist agendas.[/quote]

                          Even if Bernie doesn’t win you can bet they have major plans so that after they win one they will NEVER lose another election.

                          [/quote]Beyond a firearm ban with actual enforcement, things will have to get far worse than before I see a meaningful push for a Rightwing insurgency.[/quote]

                          IMO, it is not beyond the left to pull off a Black Swan/False Flag event and with the willing help of the media blame the Right.

                          [/quote]The typical so called Rightwing will look for reasons not to turn in such a direction.[/quote]

                          Agree

                          [/quote]Of course overlooked by most is the fact that it would only take hundreds to start a serious insurgency regardless of political motivation. Two hundred motivated people could easily change our way of life.[/quote]

                          Back to the video, take out the power infrastructure in select places and it will fester on its own.

                          [/quote]Millions? Well the ruling party couldn’t win, but that doesn’t equate to a insurgent win. Such conflicts can go decades without a clear winner.[/quote]

                          I’m pretty sure that majority of the new influx of illegals will go with the Left, especially for the promise of amnesty.

                          [/quote]I can’t see any scenario where Russia supports insurgents regardless of political persuasion.[/quote]

                          I don’t see a Red Dawn scenario either, but if you have heard of the Reconquista I can see that happening, or attempted, here in the Southwest.

                          [/quote]I still lean more towards a unforeseen black swan event as the instigator.[/quote]

                          Reichstag fire or the equivalent.

                          [/quote]Something else not appreciated is the ultimate winner will be decided by a totally different demographic than can even be imagined at this point.[/quote]

                          Not sure about this, but it will be a younger bunch in my opinion.

                          [/quote]A relatively short modern Civil War and we are talking 100,000 deaths, five years plus and we are talking 100,000,000 deaths.[/quote]

                          Once the gang bangers get going and start pillaging even a short war maybe way over 100K dead.

                          [/quote]Throw in a prolonged power grid collapse of a year or so and 50% of the population dead.[/quote]

                          Could be a blessing in disguise for the survivors

                          [/quote]So depending on scenario you can see those survivors that pick up the pieces will be a different breed than exists today.[/quote]

                          Maybe wiser and know not to trust politicians. Too bad most of the younger set have never actually had a decent civics class and have little or any clue about the way the Constitutional system is actually designed to work.

                          [/quote]

                        • #85141
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            …they will NEVER lose another election.

                            Yes, but it won’t really matter at that point. They will think they have a mandate and push too far too fast and some of our more extreme people will fight.

                            Reichstag fire or the equivalent.

                            Sure, but don’t forget there any thousands of natural non-political events possible as well.

                            Maybe wiser and know not to trust politicians. Too bad most of the younger set have never actually had a decent civics class and have little or any clue about the way the Constitutional system is actually designed to work.

                            A generation that not only has had to earn their Freedom, but their very lives will have different priorities than exists today. As far as the knowledge to build a better future form the ashes a few of us older types will make it to the other side to help with that.

                            I am fairly optimistic of at least regions of Freedom available post-event. It’s just going to be a steep price to be paid for our lack of foresight.

                            If I was as pessimistic as some of our members here I would already be on a beach in one of my favorite low cost countries on a Special Resident Retirement Visa!

                            I have my options already chosen, paperwork prepared, I could be gone in a matter of days.

                            I know many get bent out of shape at my even thinking about such options, but they haven’t lived my life. I don’t owe anything to this clusterxxxx, I’ve paid my debt in blood, sweat, and tears over many decades.

                            I’ve been trying to get people woke up and prepared. Even here most don’t take advantage of everything offered by MVT, VTC, and the Forum.

                            Yes I wouldn’t have the Freedom I desire, but would have plenty of enjoyable diversions to keep me content!

                          • #85142
                            Civilianresponder
                            Participant

                              I think its interesting that people are still invested in the right vs left paradigm. Republican vs Democrat is just a distraction from the real problem of a political ruling class and tyranny via government overreach. It matters not to me which ideology the tyrant professes as the goal of the tyrant remains the same. Same swamp different frogs.

                            • #85143
                              Sitting Duck
                              Participant

                                1 Johnny Mac.

                                There’s a few major errors in the video’s logic.
                                First is that Anyone (participant)”wins” in a civil war. This is unfortunately why we are also likely to have one. The US has medaled with so much of the world that we are likely to be victims of our own game. The only winners will be elsewhere.
                                Secondly is that Anyone would ‘shoot the horse they are riding’ on the right (or left). When looking for people of similar mindset as candidate to train with/build a team, the same chords are playing; working, family, future, success. While the Occupied movement wants to destroy the status quo because they are failing in it (change the game if you can’t win the one you are playing). Most’Right wing’ folks are doing well. While many Americans are unable to handle unexpected financial situation (one study claims $400 is more than many are prepared for), most of the ‘right wing’ I know have built something substantial. The day my appendix went, I closed on a little over 100 acre of land for $500k. Taking care of both didn’t generate any drastic financial situation. Much of my wealth would vanish with Wall Street, or the loss of government “title”(rental) of land. I guess I could end up like the Jewish under the Nazis and have my assets usurped but the joke “keep working, millions on welfare depend on it” has a lot of truth if so.

                                I’ve felt the left would slay me if things get dynamic.
                                1. They are organized. Very organized. They have put squads together for protests including providing for the protesters methadone and we struggle to get enough help for a church dinner.
                                2. They don’t have a problem with killing.
                                3. I’m a target. My state published all pistol permit holders addresses. NRA members were on Hillary’s terrorist deplorables list. They will come for us one by one and what would we do? Seriously would you go and assault any house that had a Hillary election sign in ’16? Who would you fight? They know to fight me and where I live, while “they” are well protected.
                                4.They know a dead me=$ and land for them. (my screen name starting to make sense?)

                              • #85144
                                Andrew
                                Participant

                                  Sitting Duck:

                                  Something to bear in mind from a guy who had been there and done that!

                                  “And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you knew ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffer–what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”

                                  –Alexander Solzhenitsyn

                                • #85145
                                  Anonymous
                                  Inactive

                                    Regarding the previous John Mark post, the video itself was about relabeling the alt-right (he embraces the term) and how conservatism and libertarianism are failed ideologies. The guy’s an identitarian who advocates a white ethnostate, and ethnonationalism isn’t something that leads to a pro-liberty position. I think most folks who frequent here know I’m anxious to the point of paranoia about quasi-fascist infiltration of the liberty sphere, most of the white nationalists making waves a few years back were libertarians-turned-Nazis, I get a bit overzealous when discussing political theory.

                                    That being said, I’m all for examining other’s points of view in terms of tactics and strategy, even those of folks whom I regard as ideological opponents – I just got done reading Guerrilla Warfare by Mao and I’m currently halfway on a book about the revolution in Nicaragua.

                                    It’s telling that the “It Could Happen Here” podcast comes to similar conclusions even though these two guys come from opposite ends of the political spectrum, though I think the podcast has more real-world experience behind it whereas Marks seems to be regurgitating right-wing CWII talking points, still a bit disappointed that Joe was the only one who found it interesting. :unsure:

                                    1.) I do think conservatives have a better position militarily if things go hot, they have the rural areas and pretty much all the rough terrain capable of maintaining an insurgency, though it’s not an instant win because most of those liberal cities are connected by a web of liberal suburbs.

                                    2.) I don’t expect cities to devolve into mass starvation and chaos at the outbreak of conflict. In Syria regime areas were even better stocked than ours. There’s an incentive against being the asshole force that starves small children and old ladies and you don’t want an influx of refugees fleeing the cities further destabilizing your area. You disrupt supply chains and whatnot to make things difficult but generally you aren’t going to see starvation until a city is militarily surrounded in preparation for an invasion. Even ISIS cities were well-supplied up until we took them, cities like Raqqa get bad because of how long the operation takes, quick ones like Tabqa weren’t that bad at all, folks were giving us water and supplies for cigarettes. I would expect the regime to starve out a city before an insurgent force unless they were ISIS-level evil, assuming they even had enough manpower to take cities directly. Just my experience.

                                    3.) Proxy warfare is nasty and treason, which is why most folks avoid talking about it in these discussions. Most revolutions require a sponsor to push them over the halfway point, the issue is that you as the proxy are beholden to the sponsor. Russia would be most inclined to back right-wing nationalist insurgents as has been their strategy in Europe, they’ve already made overtures to various right-wing and secessionist movements beyond those overhyped liberal attempts to link the NRA to Russia.

                                    Google Aleksandr Dugin, real weirdo but gives some insights into how they’re thinking.

                                    Even if they back pro-liberty elements rather than the blind nationalists, they could play games such as giving enough aid to keep the fight going but not enough to win – an outright insurgent victory would give the sponsor less leverage than a still-vulnerable guerrilla force sitting down for a negotiated settlement in Ottawa or wherever with the regime.

                                    4.) I don’t see a left wing insurgency having much more success than the insurgents of the New Left did in the 70s, radical leftists have a tendency to drastically overestimate working-class support for their ideas, and wealthy liberals would be horrified by violent action. I can only see left wing action getting a foothold if the government was already (ironically) busy dealing with the right-wingers in the countryside. Remember, leftists aren’t liberals, and Occupy occurred during the Obama administration. I don’t see them having much more momentum if Trump wins in 2020 than they did in 2016, I think liberals were more surprised by Trump winning last time than cynical lefties.

                                    5.) What I do see happening is Democrats winning after Trump and having eight years of outrage drive them into revenge politics with extreme positions that provoke the right into action. I do see Republican voters becoming more and more radicalized as they lose more and more influence politically, though I’d add it’s somewhat of a self-inflicted wound by the GOP taking hardline positions on immigration, police brutality, etc.

                                    If the next recession waits long enough for Trump to get re-elected that’s four years of liberal discontent with Republican economic policy (rightly or wrongly) to push the Dems further to the left for 2024, which would exacerbate things further. Offhand I’d guess if things go hot they go hot around 2025 or so.

                                    6.) Agreeing with what Darkrivers said, I think that relying on left vs. right as a barometer is an incomplete way of looking at things – using Trump vs. Clinton numbers as Marks does ignores the effects of disapproval voting or third parties. I think Marks is betting on the identitarian/nationalist elements that supported Trump being the ones to take arms and ignoring the more libertarian inclinations of regions such as Appalachia, which incidentally would probably be an insurgent paradise.

                                    You may also have disaffected Occupy anarchists fighting against a liberal regime as well, war is goofy and God forbid things go hot we shouldn’t rule out weird alliances. Some Contras were disaffected Sandinistas, the “fascist” Trump administration is currently backing a left-wing, feminist militia in Syria. A rural insurgency shouldn’t rule out working with urban anarchists tactically, or even strategically if they agree to a statement of shared principles, many are much more working-class and sympathetic to a pro-liberty position than the elitist progressives I encounter.

                                    My worry with the right in a CWII scenario is that pro-liberty folks are outmaneuvered by radical identitarian elements targeting Latinos, trans folks, Muslims, etc. for nationalist or religious reasons, discrediting all opposition forces, or even worse that these bad actors are useful enough to receive foreign backing themselves by hostile states who prefer simple destabilization rather than regime change. There is an unfortunate pattern of authoritarians seizing power in both left- and right-wing insurgencies.

                                    There would need to be a collective “Liberty Front” rather than just rely on right-wing allegiances to avoid extremist infiltration.


                                    @Shooter
                                    – I have heard of the Fourth Turning, I find the theory very much plausible and intriguing, and it’s held up well even if it’s only pop sociology, I really should track down a copy sometime.

                                  • #85146
                                    Lloyd
                                    Participant

                                      @Shooter – I have heard of the Fourth Turning, I find the theory very much plausible and intriguing, and it’s held up well even if it’s only pop sociology, I really should track down a copy sometime.

                                      EVERYBODY should read it, since our schools teach a “linear progression” of history – “timelines”. Much like the idea of “left vs right”, or “liberal vs conservative”, our very thought process has been funneled into a narrow spectrum that (purposely) clouds our thinking and restricts our view of reality. The whole concept explained in “The Fourth Turning” is that human history moves in cycles. It DOES! Therefore, understanding where we are in the current cycle, and why, allows accurate prediction of what TYPES of things we can expect. It’s not going to tell us exactly what is going to happen, but it absolutely tells us what KIND of things are going to happen, and when they’re going to happen (give or take a year or two).

                                      All in all, I think most folks on the MVT forum agree that the S is very likely to HTF one way or the other, “some day”. After reading this book, you will KNOW that it is almost 100% certain to HTF, in a certain way, in a very narrow and very predictable time-frame… even though the book can’t predict exactly what “black swan event” will set it off.

                                      MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                      Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                    • #85147
                                      RobRoy
                                      Participant

                                        Unless the Left does a 180 degree turn the “right” wing fantasy of civic nationalism, magic dirt, blank slate humans, melting pot blah, blah, blah we have been indoctrinated to for decades is going bye, bye.

                                        Now it’s possible once the Left obliterates the clown conservatives that the Left switches to one people one country we are all the same ideology upon pain of internal exile or death, they are communists after all.

                                        But putting aside all that ideological bullshit remember we are humans fantasy ideology aside.

                                      • #85148
                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                        Moderator

                                          Now it’s possible once the Left obliterates the clown conservatives that the Left switches to one people one country we are all the same ideology upon pain of internal exile or death, they are communists after all.

                                          Maybe if they had continued their slow approach in another fifty years, but Obama pushed too fast and too far.

                                          This pulled the mask off the extremists of all stripes. While the extremists hiding behind the false Alt-Right label have no ability to achieve apparent legitimacy. In a post-event scenario they maybe able to fool the ignorant.

                                          The Socialist problem is they believe their own propaganda.

                                          Socialists will try to push fast when they regain power, but they can’t win!

                                          This doesn’t mean a Freedom win either, as changing one form of tyranny for another is as likely an outcome.

                                        • #85149
                                          Max
                                          Keymaster

                                            I don’t even know where to begin with this. It’s an utter nightmare. We have a country mostly made up of low-intelligence cheerleader types, mostly statist-programmed to various degrees. You do not have a country of people equipped to be individual libertists. You have the loony left, and just as bad you have the nutjob right. You only have to look at the posts on Parler to realize it is mostly the same stupid shit of another sort. Among the right are extreme-religious who would want a theocracy. You have the ones waffling on about the ‘thin blue line’ without any idea how they applaud their own chains and lack of liberty.

                                            Who are people even fighting? How do you identify friend or foe? There are only two reasons you would be engaged in fighting – the first is you are actually one of these nutjob terrorist organizations who is proactively going out and conducting terrorist operations. The other is that you are defending your own people and will engage with those who are identified by their hostility towards you. Be the latter.

                                            There is absolutely no doubt that America is not a free country, and has lost it’s way. Leaving nothing but a psyop behind with people such as the Parler folks believing the myth. America is an authoritarian statist nightmare. Just stop paying property tax and see how long it is before the gun is held to your head for what you considered your land / property. Ok, argue with me, someone usually brings up the UK and says that the US is ‘more free’ than the UK. Yeah, right, but even if that is actually the case, I simply ask you: is the US free enough? Is it as free as it is supposed to be? On a scale of statist authoritarianism towards individual liberty, where does it place? Is the US a beacon of Liberty, or a war-mongering empire?

                                            Given that America is on the state it is, and that most Americans are individually a fucking disgrace, it is inevitable that people want to see a change. (There is a good solid minority of good Americans who hold to ideals of liberty – I see these guys on my classes, but they are a minority who not only believe in Rightful Liberty, but who are actually able to get off their asses and channel the warrior mindset.) I want to see a change. I want to see a return to true individual liberty. But I don’t have an answer for you – it will not happen in the status quo, because we are occupied by enforcement authorities, from government to law enforcement, who operate a machine to take our liberty and take our earnings. It will also likely not be the result of any sort of civil war, where greater tyranny may well emerge. But whether or not I have an answer for you is irrelevant to the fact that something is likely to happen.

                                            If / when something happens, I would advise you to concentrate on defending your own. Be tactically trained and prepared. Try to defend an area, a home base. (for those who don’t know, ‘defending’ and area isn’t sitting on your front porch, but defending it in a tactically sound manner).

                                            I have absolutely no faith in anyone come any sort of civil war. Lack of training is going to result in huge fratricide. Huge fat egos are going to result in division and in-fighting. Many of the people who you think may be fellow travelers are not, and are just authoritarians trying to bring about their own Utopian agendas, whether that be religious, racial, socialist or whatever.

                                            There appears to be little hope for a return to individual liberty in this country, whether by peaceful change now, or as the result of any sort of collapse or war situation. I see nothing but disaster. I can see nothing but hardship and death. I would only say that if you are able to weather the storm as a tribe, there may be opportunities after a period of time to seize control of areas and try to put in place a Rightful Liberty based system of local government. But who knows.

                                            I like to joke now about the Boogaloo. I do so because it is a meme I have picked up from social media. It is amusing in itself, but a nightmare if ever attempted.

                                            If you are going to boogaloo, boogaloo with friends!

                                          • #85150
                                            Max
                                            Keymaster

                                              P.S. I never even watched the OP video…sorry…..

                                            • #85151
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                …but they can’t win!

                                                Why?

                                                Well it isn’t because of the deer hunting snipers! ;-)

                                                …but as stated 200 would cause major issues, 2000 and the Nation could be brought to its knees.

                                              • #85152
                                                Max
                                                Keymaster

                                                  I’m reading the Fourth Turn. Into the first part of it. This appesrs to be a great book, well worth reading. Good call shooter! Eye opening stuff.

                                                • #85153
                                                  Lloyd
                                                  Participant

                                                    I’m reading the Fourth Turn. Into the first part of it. This appesrs to be a great book, well worth reading. Good call shooter! Eye opening stuff.

                                                    GREAT! I’m sure it will spur some VERY interesting discussion here on the forum.

                                                    :good:

                                                    MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                    Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                  • #85154
                                                    First Sergeant
                                                    Moderator

                                                      This country is in it’s death throes.

                                                      The noise you hear from all sides is the death rattle.

                                                      There is no saving it.

                                                      Prepare accordingly. Or not.

                                                      Honk Honk.

                                                      FILO
                                                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                      Je ne regrette rien
                                                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                    • #85155
                                                      RobRoy
                                                      Participant

                                                        Another empire exhausting itself.

                                                      • #85156
                                                        gatlinggun
                                                        Participant

                                                          I read The Fourth Turning in 1998 right after it was published. That book has “colored” my views on the subjects under discussion since.

                                                          The Burning Platform blog has had Fourth Turning based articles that are also eye opening.

                                                          I tend to agree with Max in that there is no fixing the country. I do not buy into the left-right paradigm and haven’t for years. The spectacle of “elections” in America is merely a version of the Roman Circus Maximus.

                                                          My personal view is that America will continue the path of tyranny it is on, gradually sinking deeper and deeper into a “techno-tyranny” from which there will be no escape. 5G and the “Internet of Things” is only the tip of the iceberg. I believe that an American version of the Chinese “social-credit” system will be implemented. In fact we are seeing a form of it already with the blacklisting, deplatforming, and demonetizing of “conservative” voices in media.

                                                          I believe that it will be eventually used to force the compliance of EVERYONE whether “left” or “right”. What good is your ideology when the System has blacklisted you and you cannot hold a job, buy food, pay rent, etc? This is about behavior modification and control. Like to eat? Then do not harbor sentiments contrary to the accepted norm (as defined by the Ministry of Truth).

                                                          I am reminded that this is what the National Socialists in Germany did to the Jews. They were stripped of their German citizenship, stripped of the ability to hold a job, and to live, in essence they were brought to the legal status of “non-persons”.

                                                          This can’t happen here!!??! It is already.

                                                        • #85157
                                                          Robert
                                                          Participant

                                                            Now it’s possible once the Left obliterates the clown conservatives that the Left switches to one people one country we are all the same ideology upon pain of internal exile or death, they are communists after all.

                                                            Maybe if they had continued their slow approach in another fifty years, but Obama pushed too fast and too far.

                                                            This pulled the mask off the extremists of all stripes. While the extremists hiding behind the false Alt-Right label have no ability to achieve apparent legitimacy. In a post-event scenario they maybe able to fool the ignorant.

                                                            The Socialist problem is they believe their own propaganda.

                                                            Socialists will try to push fast when they regain power, but they can’t win!

                                                            This doesn’t mean a Freedom win either, as changing one form of tyranny for another is as likely an outcome.

                                                            Not only did Obama push too far and too fast- he got the a-hole libs used to winning and winning quickly. Old skewl commies that left the Weatherman and similar groups in the 60’s to get into the public education system because they realized they wouldn’t get their glorious revolution right then, but over time with control of the education system they would- and are.

                                                            I agree 100% with you Joe, they can’t win, but unfortunately they can kill millions of people in the process of trying. It will likely take that for the average American to wake TFU and realize we are in a fight. And it’s a generational fight, which means doing more than buying a few guns and putting molon labe posts on social media- but preparing your children correctly to see these things for what they are also.

                                                          • #85158
                                                            RobRoy
                                                            Participant

                                                              The “Left” is as big a joke maybe more of a joke than the Soviets were, it has so many weak spots that are so obvious that some days I wonder how they just don’t all jump off a high building to end it all.

                                                              If it weren’t for the conservative stooges I am quite sure the Left would self destruct within two weeks.

                                                              It literally takes trillions of dollars per year to keep that ramshackle coalition together and functioning, if you doubt me go turn on the stupidvision and other media outlets.

                                                            • #85159
                                                              Anonymous
                                                              Inactive

                                                                Here is an interesting take on this video by another site I follow.

                                                                Thoughts on “CIVIL WAR 2 in America – WHO WOULD WIN?” Video

                                                              • #85160
                                                                Sitting Duck
                                                                Participant

                                                                  I missed rampantraptor’s post until going to add

                                                                  Lawfare, economic sanctions,

                                                                • #85161
                                                                  hellokitty
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    This country is self destructing. However, I believe it will be a slow burn out. This country is slowly moving to the left. However, concerning the upcoming election, the Dems have embraced socialism which will elect Trump to a second term. And THAT will really push the left into the next step of insurgency. Violence. I expect bombings and assassinations from left to follow. And that will lead to destabilization. And a spiral out of control.

                                                                    HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
                                                                    HEAT 2 (CP) X1
                                                                    FOF X3
                                                                    OPFOR X2
                                                                    CLC X2
                                                                    RIFLEMAN

                                                                  • #85162
                                                                    wheelsee
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      People forget about the 60s…. when there was assassinations, violence in the streets (anybody say Watts riots), etc.

                                                                      IIRC, while history rarely repeats itself, it often rhymes……(can’t remember source)

                                                                    • #85163
                                                                      Andrew
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        That (60’s) was the anti-war crowd and Commies like the Weathermen and the Black Panthers with their racist stuff.

                                                                        IMO, this is different given the Democrat Party is in essence sponsoring some or most of it. Of course the other side isn’t helping the situation either.

                                                                        The election results in 2020 should make for interesting times.

                                                                      • #85164
                                                                        Robert
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          He takes apart that other video someone was discussing and makes a lot of sense. Very well done IMO.

                                                                        • #85165
                                                                          Lloyd
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            I definitely agree with Culper’s assessment that the entire country choosing up sides and marching off to war, as happened in the War Between the States, is NOT going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.

                                                                            More likely would be more of a Balkans meltdown scenario kicked off by some “black swan” event – economic crash, dollar crash, pandemic, power grid meltdown (man caused or natural), etc. Anything like that could create a situation where millions of Americans had little to nothing to lose by resorting to violence. In a case like that, I completely agree with Culper’s assessment that it would result in localized/regional conflict, rather than a nationwide “civil war”. Again, much more like a Yugoslavia meltdown than Blue vs Grey.

                                                                            MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                            Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                          • #85166
                                                                            Anonymous
                                                                            Inactive

                                                                              <iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZN9O0o4zw8o?feature=oembed&#8221; allow=”accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture” allowfullscreen=”” width=”500″ height=”281″ frameborder=”0″></iframe>

                                                                              He takes apart that other video someone was discussing and makes a lot of sense. Very well done IMO.

                                                                              Good one Robert, I was gonna post that myself but you beat me to it.

                                                                              There’s another video, apparently he’s doing a series on this himself now, looking forward to his take on things.

                                                                              Seems we’ve had no shortage of this kind of theorizing lately.

                                                                              Since my mind drives me nuts if I have too much alone time with myself, I’ve been doing some reading at work, currently re-reading a book on the IRA and one thing that keeps coming up is how much of the Troubles was quiet enough you could easily miss it if you were simply passing by.

                                                                              Based on my own experience you would likely have swathes of the country where things would largely go on in some kind of normal, once you got out of those safe regime areas you’d be entering guerrilla country.

                                                                            • #85167
                                                                              Lloyd
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                The latest:

                                                                                MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                              • #85168
                                                                                Lloyd
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Part 3:

                                                                                  MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                  Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

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