When is enough, ENOUGH!

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    • #64477
      Eric
      Participant

        I tell you what guys…

        I read the headlines, and I bounce back and forth between seething anger and despondent hopelessness. I don’t get it.

        We got people being arrested for speaking out at school board meetings.

        We got public education which has turned most schools into indoctrination centers.

        .GOV continues to encroach and steal more and more land for purposes that they aren’t willing to admit.

        We got the majority of congress that couldn’t tell the fucking truth if their life depended on it.

        We got John McCain saying that spying on the general population is “Just something we have to live with.”

        We have corrupt elections where many candidates get into office by cheating their way there.

        We got a president who is more worried about offending radical muslims, and defending their rights, and arming them than he is about the well being of the population of this country.

        We got trigger happy cops who would just as soon shoot your dog as look at him, and will pepper spray you, taze, you, and beat you to death if you don’t comply.

        We got laws against growing your own food in some states.

        We got laws against collecting rainwater in some states.

        We got biological ID on the horizon.

        We got forced immunization.

        When are the people going to wake up, and say, ENOUGH!

      • #64478
        Corvette
        Participant

          That is why we train ;)

        • #64479
          JohnyMac
          Participant

            Eric, I read your rant and smiled. I smiled because you like me want people to wake up and throw the bums out!

            Some folks think that protesting with a gun is the answer however I do not… At least not today, May 7, 2014. There will be plenty of time for that if needed in the future.

            Now I am not afraid of a gun and have plenty. I use to have a FFL until I received a letter that basically said, “By having this license you sign away your 4A rights.” Once it was time for renewal – I didn’t renew.

            IMO, and this will draw all kinds of heat; I think we, as patriots, need to do the following:

            1) Work within the system and try to change things that way FIRST. There are some great men & women of the same mindst running for local, state and federal offices. Support them EVEN if they are in a different AO than yours.

            When was the last time you went to your village, town or city council meeting? When was the last time you went to your kids School supervisor’s meeting. Village, town city budget meeting? If you can’t say, “I attend 75% of these meeting’s” you in part have yourself to blame.

            2) Up the urgency of getting preps for your immediate and extended family. Remember, Beans, Band-Aids and bullets, in EQUAL amounts. Don’t spend all your resources on just one. Equal amounts!

            3) Train. If you can’t afford professional training there are things you can do like:
            -Physical training,
            – Buy a book like Contact or Green Eyes & Black Rifles.

            Also,

            Train by doing:
            – Start a garden/ Expand your garden
            – Build a rifle
            – Learn to “roll your own” (Reloading)
            – Change your own oil
            – Raise a few chickens or if you have the space raise some goats*, sheep, pigs*, cows, cattle…
            – Etcetera

            4) Make sure you have one month of cash on hand. Don’t tell me you can’t do that – Be a man and give up a vice. Beer, cigars, cigarettes, etc. Put those dollars you save in a mason jar each week. You will be amazed at how fast that jar fills up – Your family comes first!

            I am not advocating this but I have three friends who traded in their 401K’s and took a huge leap forward in their preps by:
            – Buying a used New Holland tractor the implements needed for the tractor
            – Bought PM’s (Precious Metals) in appropriate quantities. DO NOT put all of your eggs in one basket. Everything in balance. IMO, gold is worthless during a collapse. Gold becomes valuable post a collapse to start up a service/business. Now silver is king to have to buy day to day items.
            – Bought 4 legged critters (Reread #3) that are easy to raise like: Goats*, sheep, guard dog, cattle, cow, pigs*, etc…

            O-Kay, I will stop MY rant now with one closing comment: What is happening now is actually a blessing. Get off your bloody butt and meet the challenges heads on. “These are the times that try men’s souls.”

            * = My neighbors up at the redoubt just received 3 FREE goats in the 6-12 months old range. All three are does and when they come into season they will be mated with a another neighbors buck.

            My neighbor buys piglets (Feeders or starters) at the local auction that happens every Tuesday night at the local grange. They typically buy 2-3 a year in the 30-50 pound range at 20 – 40¢ a pound. They raise the feeders till they get to the 200-250 pound range and then have them butchered. The feeders eat all of the house and garden vegetable waste.

          • #64480
            Eric
            Participant

              Hey Johnny…

              many of the things you talk about, I have done, and am doing.

              We are fairly fortunate here where the schools are concerned. Our system has not bought into “common core” yet. But I was told by one of the school board members that if they don’t, they stand a big chance of losing their federal funding.

              I actually have an appointment scheduled to talk with my Rep. (Dr. Phil Roe) next month when he is in town.

              We can, and did garden until we moved to tennessee. I rent a place right now, in a neighborhood just outside the city. The whole yard is a hill. That, and the fact that we don’t own it pretty much eliminates having a garden, or raising livestock.

              I did Max’s 5 day class last month, and have hooked up with a group of guys to train SUT with. I ruck 3 days a week, and have been working on my PT in other ways as well. We also got the beans, the bullets, and the band-aids angles all covered.

              I just see things sliding quickly out of control towards the edge of the cliff, and no one seems to be able to pull themselves away from their Iphone long enough to realize what is happening. It just frustrates the shit out of me.

            • #64481
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                When are the people going to wake up, and say, ENOUGH!

                You know what, I asked myself that very question?

                Around 20 years ago in the 1990’s!

                IMO, and this will draw all kinds of heat; I think we, as patriots, need to do the following:

                1) Work within the system and try to change things that way FIRST. There are some great men & women of the same mindst running for local, state and federal offices. Support them EVEN if they are in a different AO than yours.

                I started this around 1992!

                As far as the preps, I was raised in Prepper family only then we were called Survivalists!

                In the 1990’s things were coming to a boil, then the OKC Bombing brought things down to simmer. (I will not get into the Bombing. To avoid: narrow thinking, civil disorder against legitimate government, terrorist threats, and radical political agendas. All crazy far out theories, whether true or not! Legitimacy is imperative. Wise sentiments and policy)

                So to paraphrase “John McClane” (Die Hard), Welcome to the Party!

              • #64482
                Ernie
                Participant

                  Eric,

                  Nice rant buddy, we all need one time to time. For what it’s worth, I feel the disconnect is we don’t have a unifying public figure that the majority will follow. Right now we are small, angry, little pissed off groups scattered about the country. By the way, if you feel like moving I know a place where the cops aren’t too bad and the gun laws are great! Did you get my last PM?

                  Ernie

                • #64483
                  JohnyMac
                  Participant

                    LOL!

                    Great posts Eric and GWNS!

                    Yeah like you GWNS MrsMac and I started prepping in the late 80’s. We bought a blue water sailboat in ’87 and over the next three years we tricked it out. The plan if things got bad we would just sail away.

                    Eric, I am impressed what you have accomplished. In some ways (Defensive/offensive training) you have surpassed the wife and my brothers family. :good:

                    My rant was a message to us all. When frustration clicks in take it up a notch and focus that frustration back to what you have control over. Beans, Band-Aides and bullets we have control over and to a lesser point, local government. If we don’t our family’s will suffer in the end.

                    You Eric and GWNS got your proverbial shit together! :good: We all need to look towards you and some others to know when to keep focused on what we have control over and when it is time to take powder, ball and rifle down from the wall; to run towards the sound of battle. (Sorry for the run-on sentence :-( )

                    All good stuff… Thanks Eric for bringing up the topic! :good:

                  • #64484
                    JeffSags
                    Participant

                      Eric, I hear you loud and clear. We all need to rant, and yours really resonates. I woke up to this today and it had my blood boiling.

                      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/06/gop-lawmakers-say-theyre-furious-after-discovering-what-was-hidden-inside-budget-they-voted-for/

                      Sadly, Not only is a large part of America “asleep”, they like it that way!

                    • #64485
                      Eric
                      Participant

                        Eric,

                        Nice rant buddy, we all need one time to time. For what it’s worth, I feel the disconnect is we don’t have a unifying public figure that the majority will follow. Right now we are small, angry, little pissed off groups scattered about the country. By the way, if you feel like moving I know a place where the cops aren’t too bad and the gun laws are great! Did you get my last PM?

                        Ernie

                        Hey Ernie…

                        Thanks for the invite, and no, I didn’t hear back from you.

                      • #64486
                        JohnyMac
                        Participant

                          OMG! Gee wilakers JeffSags, maybe the GOP bums should had read the budget?

                          O-Kay, lets turn lemons into lemon aide here….
                          Let’s open a slue of firearm stores around the state of NY. Specifically in PA, OH and VT. Open these stores within 1-5 miles of the NY state line and slant your advertising towards NY 2A Citizens.

                          – No recording of ammo purchases,
                          – Store your Safe act weapons and accessories in a secure vault,
                          – Have a place to use your weapons,
                          – Etcetera.

                          Based on the what I saw post the Safe Act passing, NYers flooded across the PA border to buy and buy and buy what ever they could – It would be a money maker! Plus most important though, you would perform a service for fellow 2A friendly’s. :good:

                        • #64487
                          Max
                          Keymaster

                            I was heavily involved in politics. But conservatives need not apply. So I’m out. I was a republican chairman for about a year. I was the tea party chair for 2. Been there done that. Got the scars to prove it. The political system is broken.

                            Facts:
                            10% of the people in this country work for the government
                            50% of the people are in some way getting welfare. Even if small. This is not good.

                            The percentages of Makers Vs Moochers is slanted towards the moochers. Think they will vote away the freebies? Not going to happen.

                            When is enough enough? I ask myself this EVERY DAY!!!

                            Every day you have is one more bag of rice you can buy. Bullets you can store. PT you can do. Training with Max you can take advantage of. Most importantly it’s more time you have to find and join up with like minded people out there.

                          • #64488
                            M1-Guy
                            Participant

                              I ask myself this every day and ask friends, aquantances this as well. My conclusion is the majority of the sheeple will not come to a conclusion that Enough is Enough and/or if/when they do, it will be to late.

                              JohnyMac your list is a good one. However #1, I believe the “ship has sailed” on. We can’t elect and replace the the “bad” politicans fast enough to change the economic tsunami that is headed our way. I have said this before and will say it again. The books are out of balance and there is no way to bring them into balance without, what would be, catastropic economic changes. That said, the books, in the end, ALWAYS balance. So, we are headed for interesting and sporty times.

                              People want .gov at all levels to take care of, fix things and support them. It is pervasive. So, enough will never be enough. Everyone will want more and will get it until they don’t.

                              I won’t say I have given up but I will say that my efforts are weighted to putting myself and family in a position to survive the coming upheavel and confligration. If I am wrong, so be it.

                              F said it succinctly, “that is why we train” and I would add, prepare.

                            • #64489
                              Eric
                              Participant

                                I was heavily involved in politics. But conservatives need not apply. So I’m out. I was a republican chairman for about a year. I was the tea party chair for 2. Been there done that. Got the scars to prove it. The political system is broken.

                                Facts:<br>
                                10% of the people in this country work for the government<br>
                                50% of the people are in some way getting welfare. Even if small. This is not good.

                                The percentages of Makers Vs Moochers is slanted towards the moochers. Think they will vote away the freebies? Not going to happen.

                                When is enough enough? I ask myself this EVERY DAY!!!

                                Every day you have is one more bag of rice you can buy. Bullets you can store. PT you can do. Training with Max you can take advantage of. Most importantly it’s more time you have to find and join up with like minded people out there.

                                Yep…

                                you nailed it. The system is broken. It no longer resembles what it was intended to be.

                                Special interests and corporations have the majority of the politicians bought and paid for, and now THEY (the above mentioned corporations) are writing laws and public policy, and enriching the politicians for their treason. I fear there will be no relief at the ballot box.

                                It feels good to say “get out and vote” but WTF difference will it make at this point?

                              • #64490
                                Brian from Georgia
                                Participant

                                  Agreed theat we’re beyond fixing it. Electoral politics hasnt’ solved anything yet.

                                  You know, sooner or later we’re going to have to balkanize. It will be the only way to save a sliver of the republic. It would be good to do it now voluntarily, instead of doing it as starving refugees.

                                • #64491
                                  Mike H
                                  Participant

                                    Great Post and replies!

                                    Agree w/ JohnnyMac…getting things in order….organize your stuff and get rid of things you don’t need. Get to a gun show if they are allowed in your AO and sell something you don’t need/use. Or better yet get a table and generate some extra income to get training. Use ebay and your will be surprised what stuff you can sell that’s just laying around. This is how a financed my trip to West Virgina in March.

                                    I’m like GWNS…dated from 25 yrs ago…I still like the moniker “survivalist”. Been getting “my house” in order for all that time. I consider myself a sponge as I try even today to absorb as much info/data as possible and continue to evolve with your kit, preps, etc.

                                    I agree that the system is broke and can’t be fixed. I’ve spent time trying to work thru the politics of it all but that route isn’t going to change anything. The forces of evil( yes that’s right evil…those that daily work to erode our liberties) can basically throw crap at the wall and see what sticks…and for the most part it works. We might get some push back by patriots(gun control for instance)…but because most are so disengaged at what’s happening around them it’s just a matter of time before all goes to shit. Try to engage a co worker about concerns you have about what’s happening and you’ll most likely get ” I just want to get my kid thru school” or “All this stuff doesn’t concern me”.

                                    It truly is sad….but most Americans don’t care. I agree with Brian…we will need to balkanize eventually.

                                  • #64492
                                    M1-Guy
                                    Participant

                                      In November 2008 a Russian economist stated that the US would eventually break up into 6 regions. Something like Northeast, Southeast, North Central, South Central, Northwest and California. Perhaps he was right.

                                      http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a3sayDZz.QKc

                                      On a more political tact. I would recommend everyone read or reread 1984. I just did and the parallels to our society right now are chilling. Thought police, lie till its truth, redefining words, etc.

                                    • #64493
                                      Eric
                                      Participant

                                        In November 2008 a Russian economist stated that the US would eventually break up into 6 regions. Something like Northeast, Southeast, North Central, South Central, Northwest and California. Perhaps he was right.

                                        http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a3sayDZz.QKc

                                        On a more political tact. I would recommend everyone read or reread 1984. I just did and the parallels to our society right now are chilling. Thought police, lie till its truth, redefining words, etc.

                                        I just watched “V for Vendetta” for the first time a couple nights ago. Talk about prophetic movies? Holy shit! I don’t know who wrote that story, but he nailed so many things that are coming to pass.

                                      • #64494
                                        JohnyMac
                                        Participant

                                          I agree with pretty much all that has been written. I will state though, I am in no way wanting, wishing or praying for a civil war, e.g. militia trying to take over the government; “to kick the bums out.” Who will decide what the definition of a bum is when that time comes?

                                          If you don’t have the patience to work on #1 of my afore mentioned list – No worries we get it. Instead use that frustration for good on #2-4. ;-)

                                          Many are doing that but I will bet ya’ it’s less than 5% of the folks that have woken up and see what the future holds. They see the problem up the road however normalcy bias is just too strong and they do little to build the nest egg they know in their hearts that they need to survive.

                                          All good stuff and a great discussion. :good:

                                        • #64495
                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                          Moderator

                                            I will state though, I am in no way wanting, wishing or praying for a civil war, e.g. militia trying to take over the government; “to kick the bums out.” Who will decide what the definition of a bum is when that time comes?

                                            No sane person is, obviously many of us have been fighting this through traditional means for a long time.

                                            I registered to vote on my birthday I was home on leave, had been active duty almost 11 months at that point. I voted absentee in all elections during my career. I always vote, however I will no longer vote for the lessor of two evils! Give me someone to vote for or I may leave that one blank or fill a write in candidate. Many disagree, but I would rather have someone I know is destroying country than someone only pretending who will stab you in the back when you least expect it. There maybe some hope at the local and state level.

                                            At the federal level, just debt wise we can’t fix it, it’s too late! I guestimate it would take budget cuts at around two trillion a year to even attempt both balancing budget and make real headway paying off debt. No administration could survive the the political fallout and civil unrest that would create.

                                            So instead they pretend a five trillion dollar cut over ten years would help (that shyster Paul Ryan’s first prospect for prosperity budget, I ran the numbers, took almost two months of effort, a complete scam), then next year when no one is paying attention they throw even those cuts out.

                                            No the only possible way to fix things is survive the collapse; or what ever disaster sparks one, then try to pick up the pieces and build something worthwhile.

                                            Yes, the prospect of replacing one tyranny for another is very real!

                                            I am putting my soapbox up for awhile. :yes:

                                          • #64496
                                            Eric
                                            Participant

                                              I Don’t know GW…

                                              debt wise it has gone too far, certainly in need of a reset. But I think the same can be said of the current government, and the tentacles that have imbedded themselves there.

                                              Thomas Jefferson warned us a long time ago of the very place we find ourselves today.

                                              “The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered. ”

                                              I don’t know that the power that controls our country right now will ever just “let go” and abide by even a sense of decency. There needs to be an eviction. But, there is the rub. That very line of thinking, I believe, is what got John F. Kennedy killed.

                                              For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

                                              Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed.”

                                              I am not a huge fan of his or anything, but he was the last, and one of only three or four presidents since the founding of the country who had the balls to stand up to institutions like the fed, and the families that control the money.

                                              We don’t have many, if any, that are in power today that will dare go there. If they did, they probably wouldn’t live long.

                                            • #64497
                                              Ernie
                                              Participant

                                                Gentlemen,

                                                I just wanted to take a second and comment on how great this forum is. Adults can have an intelligent conversation, with differing view points, and everything remains civil. I am not use to forums or blogs that maintain this. Pat yourselves in the back and get back to work.

                                                To further the topic, the system is broke. The old saying “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” applies. Smarter fellows than I will have to figure out the fix.

                                                Ernie

                                              • #64498
                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                Moderator

                                                  But I think the same can be said of the current government, and the tentacles that have imbedded themselves there.

                                                  Agreed! I started with the debt argument because most are familiar with it.

                                                  There is no traditional political fix! The system is to corrupt.

                                                  Putting the so called conservative republicans in might and I emphasize might buy a little more time.

                                                  I want no part in proactive eviction, now reactive eviction is another matter. The ball is in their court.

                                                  It is a toss up in my opinion whether they start something vice a natural reaction to building events brings system down. Then of course the unpredictable Black Swan type event could happen anytime.

                                                  While I do not want to start anything, if it must happen I would rather it be before I am a Great-grandfather or more. I have played a part in allowing this country to get to this point, even with plenty of responsibility before I even existed.

                                                  I do not want my Grandchildren to bear the brunt of fixing things.

                                                  The whys of our situation almost don’t matter anymore, it’s how we manage the “Reset” is all that matters now, for me anyway.

                                                • #64499
                                                  Max
                                                  Keymaster

                                                    I want no part in proactive eviction, now reactive eviction is another matter. The ball is in their court.

                                                    Amen to that. People that want the proactive eviction should train with max. So they can see how full of crap they are. I know I found that out. Most of the chest thumpers that advocate this don’t have a clue. Children playing with wooden guns in a mans world full of real guns.

                                                  • #64500
                                                    Eric
                                                    Participant

                                                      Please don’t misunderstand me guys…

                                                      I am not advocating for an armed uprising. I will never start a fight. I think it may not even be needed if everyone who thought the way we do showed up on the steps of the white house and shut down DC for a few days.

                                                      Hell if everyone that thinks like we did would even make phone calls weekly, enough to shut down the switchboards, write emails, etc, we might see some change, or at least we would be taken seriously.

                                                      Things like what McCain said the other day tells me that right now, they don’t give a shit what we think, and don’t believe we have the wherewithal, means, guts, or whatever to stand up to them.

                                                    • #64501
                                                      JohnyMac
                                                      Participant

                                                        Thank you for your comment Ernie:

                                                        I just wanted to take a second and comment on how great this forum is. Adults can have an intelligent conversation, with differing view points, and everything remains civil.

                                                        I whole heartedly agree!

                                                        As mentioned on another topic, I want a reset. The world dropping the petrodollar would be a good start and maybe returning to money that is backed by something.

                                                        On another note: As I have read everyone’s well thought out comments, the movie Dr. Zhivago kept playing through my head. Be careful what you wish for as who knows what will replace the vacuum the reset causes. ;-)

                                                      • #64502
                                                        Eric
                                                        Participant

                                                          Thank you for your comment Ernie:

                                                          I just wanted to take a second and comment on how great this forum is. Adults can have an intelligent conversation, with differing view points, and everything remains civil.

                                                          I whole heartedly agree!

                                                          As mentioned on another topic, I want a reset. The world dropping the petrodollar would be a good start and maybe returning to money that is backed by something.

                                                          On another note: As I have read everyone’s well thought out comments, the movie Dr. Zhivago kept playing through my head. Be careful what you wish for as who knows what will replace the vacuum the reset causes. ;-)

                                                          You could count on it that if it did happen…

                                                          there would be agent provocateurs from every major player in the world here like ticks on a hound.

                                                        • #64503
                                                          Max
                                                          Keymaster

                                                            We are bankrupt: not only financially, but morally as well. This is well past “fixable”. The dollar has actually been in its terminal phase for >40 yrs. The real surprise is that it has lasted this long. Probably the industrial explosion of China, coupled with the microchip advances and internet, and of course, our real estate bubble. All of that speculating actually helped soak up a lot of excess dollar creation. But the tricks are gone.

                                                            If Putin really wants to drive in the stake, repudiate the dollar. Dump T-bills overnight on the open market. Game over. Thanks for playing.

                                                            Politics? PLEASE, no profanity! Fornicatin’ politicians as the new aristocracy? Nobody worth electing and capable of being elected WANTS to be elected. ZERO hope there.

                                                            Gee, I’m just full of sunshine, eh? Well, as my wife and my country die it leaves me in a mite cynical mood. Answers?

                                                            Already stated: the Killer B’s

                                                            Beans
                                                            Bullets
                                                            Bandaids
                                                            Beverages

                                                            I continue to work on our retreat in TN. Getting close to 20 fruit trees, a bunch of blueberry bushes (plus wild blackberries), fish in the pond. I had actually tried to be Max’ first “site consultation” but he seems to be busy enough with his classes now.

                                                            Need to work on the final “B” up there: buddies! The shortage of reliable, TRUSTWORTHY folks who get it is problematic. As has been seen by the behavior of some out at the Bundy ranch, the Patriot movement continues to have a number of infiltrators. So work on the “home team” is a slow process.

                                                          • #64504
                                                            Eric
                                                            Participant

                                                              What region of TN are you in Doc?

                                                            • #64505
                                                              Ronald Beal
                                                              Participant

                                                                Let me throw a question out there to you guys…
                                                                What is the ideal end state?
                                                                Is the constitution broken? or is it just government that is broken?
                                                                If you could wave a magic wand that could re-define government, and the Constitution, how would you change it so this doesn’t happen again?

                                                              • #64506
                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                Moderator

                                                                  Well that’s a huge subject, that needs addressing. To give it proper attention it deserves would take considerable time and effort.

                                                                  Basic thoughts:

                                                                  A Constitutional Republic.

                                                                  The Bill of Rights would be kept with the addition of quality definitions.

                                                                  Rights of individual take precedence.

                                                                  The Constitution would clearly define what Federal government can do, anything not expressly written is off limits.

                                                                  Flat tax at say 10% off top of income, can’t be raised under any circumstances, not even by amendment, but can be lowered.

                                                                  Any law passed that is ruled unconstitutional would hold those politicians that voted in favor to be criminally liable.

                                                                  All bills would would require politicians to know content by passing written and oral test.

                                                                  Limit to 50 Bills per year, can’t be amended.

                                                                  No offensive military action without declaration of War.

                                                                  No power to borrow money, can’t be amended.

                                                                  Conviction of corruption charges is a capital offense, mandatory minimum life sentence or death penalty.

                                                                  No exemptions for politicians in laws passed.

                                                                  Conviction of any crime federal or state by politicians gets an additional ten year sentence.

                                                                  FBI is only Federal LEO, limited to investigating federal employees and state politicians, investigate only no powers of arrest.

                                                                  Senators are elected by state legislature (for state influence to federal government, otherwise they are just glorified congressman).

                                                                  No welfare, social security, education, food stamps at federal level.

                                                                  You should get the rough idea. Limit federal government and politicians are held to a higher standard than any others.

                                                                • #64507
                                                                  Suspect1
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    All these posts bring to mind the quote (roughly) “we are at the uncomfortable position where it is too late to vote them out, but too early to hang them” specifically referring to the oligarchs and moneyed interests.

                                                                    Ahh… where do I see the endgame.

                                                                    I believe that the original intent of our constitution is enough, not what it has been misconstrued to mean. That we should judge all against the rights of the individual. That the only limits an individual should face on their actions, should be the point at which the their freedom limits the action of others.

                                                                    Freedom is scary, so scary that humans are willing to sacrifice true freedom for the illusion of freedom.

                                                                    I would love for my great grandchildren to live in the world imagined by Gene Rodenberry, where people are free to contribute to society exactly what their heart desires, and to be compensated justly for the effort they make. I do not know a soul who would argue with that. The problem is we live in a world where psychopaths believe that you can legislate that the world will function that way, and they will crush you if you disagree. There’s the rub. I really used to say that I was for spreading democracy at the point of a gun…I really was a silly little man.

                                                                    Now I’m willing to fight for a position with which I disagree, as long as the person espousing that position does not want to do so at the detriment of another.

                                                                    Our founders ideals will get us where we need to be, just look at the 3/5ths clause. This wasn’t because these crazy old white guys really though that the black slaves of the south were worth 3/5ths of a white man. It’s because they understood math, and if the census counted them as 1 man then the south would have had power over the north and slavery would never have been ended.

                                                                    Read the words of your elders, then reread. Read the Bible, then reread, read the fables of the days of yore, then reread. Read the Constitution, then reread. The answers are there. And if you read all of those things, you will realize there is always a time to fight, is that time now?

                                                                  • #64508
                                                                    JohnyMac
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      I like what you have written GWNS. I also would like a “governor” placed on the changes so change is not made over night. A well controlled rollout of changes, not unlike slowly taking off the radiator cap of a over heated truck engine; towards an agreed upon goal.

                                                                    • #64509
                                                                      M1-Guy
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        JohnyMac, the “governor” is already there, we, in our infinite wisdom, have chosen to circumvent it.

                                                                        The “end game” has been in motion for 100 years, starting with T. Roosevelt but truly with W. Wilson. Unfortunately the Patriots are on the losing side of this, at the moment. The Progressives are and have been very patient. They have changed all parts of the fabric of society for the past 100 years. The changes are slow, incremental and ongoing. They are in their golden age right now. Our Republic is unrecognizable to the Founders.

                                                                        So the ideal end state would be getting back to the Constitution, Bill of Rights as written.

                                                                        The Constitution is not broken. Somewhere along the way we figured we can enforce/use it selectively and have a court system that is writing law/rules instead of enforcing them. Court at all levels interpret now and it is excepted practice.

                                                                        Government is for sure broken. These guys represent themselves not the people who elected them. Senators were originally appointed by the governor of the state and the representatives were given 2 year terms because they were supposed to serve and go home. Senators are now elected and all of these representatives are now career politicians with benefits the rest of us dream about. There should be term limits. This is definitely broken.

                                                                        I would just roll it back to what it was supposed to be. Minimal federal power, states have the power.

                                                                        However, this is all fantasy at this point. I am a CPA by profession and practice. We are financially insolvent. The hammer will come down sooner than later AND the books are ALWAYS put back into balance. My experience with troubled financial entities is, the longer it takes to accept the reality and take the pain the worse it is. In 2008 we started borrowing even more and trying to spend our way out of financial armageddon. At best we have postponed it, the day of reckoning will come and the books will be put back into balance. It seems though that a great conflagration will occur around this. There is no guarantee the result of this will reinstate the Constitutional Republic. A vacuum will open up and competing forces will attempt to “save us”.

                                                                        All of the skills of the people here who understand this will be put to the test. This is why we train and prepare.

                                                                      • #64510
                                                                        Max
                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                          The problem with the Constitution is that it has always been too easy to circumvent it. I’d say it all started with Marbury v. Madison and it was downhill from there. The Civil War and Reconstruction really accelerated things and then the Progressive era (which takes us right up to the present day) represents the transition from Constitutional Republic to oligarchy and the consolidation of the power in the hands of the corrupt elites.

                                                                          “But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.”
                                                                          — Lysander Spooner

                                                                          Not sure I’d go as far as Spooner, but he does raise an interesting point.

                                                                        • #64511
                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                          Moderator

                                                                            The Problem with the constitution is it’s just a piece of paper, Only people can defend our Rights.

                                                                            In my opinion the basic tenants would have to be almost exempt from interpretation. It means what it says, PERIOD! When in doubt it defaults to the Rights of the individual.

                                                                            Ultimately no constitution or law can keep men free, they have to desire it in there hearts.

                                                                          • #64512
                                                                            JeffSags
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              Great discussion going on here. It reminds me of “Hologram of Liberty.” If you are a Boston T. Party fan, it is well worth a read.

                                                                            • #64513
                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                “Hologram of Liberty.”

                                                                                Good read.

                                                                              • #64514
                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                  In a Freedom loving land, I imagine the following scenario:

                                                                                  Two men are sitting in a Dinner having coffee talking. When one says to the other maybe there should be limits on personal freedom. The whole dinner goes silent and stares at him. The manager approaches and says I think you should leave, this establishment is for Americans. Another patron in back yells get a rope to cheers and laughs all around. As the embarrassed man leaves.

                                                                                  Realistic? Maybe not, but I can dream. :yes:

                                                                                • #64515
                                                                                  Max
                                                                                  Keymaster

                                                                                    Wise men have been saying for centuries that evil succeeds when Good men do nothing.
                                                                                    Is it out of fear? Fear of rejection? Fear of being the odd kid at school? The rude neighbor? The obnoxious loudmouth in Church?

                                                                                    Is it laziness? Are we so absorbed in our daily labors that we forget to look up and see? Or do we look up and see, but put it on the backburner until later?

                                                                                    Are we so quick to dismiss the youth as ‘softies who have it easy’ and never give them a chance to prove themselves? Do we even seriously consider the youth at all? Our enemies will approach and entice the youth with visions of glory and greatness, will we?

                                                                                    We can win daily battles, but only if we rise to the occasion and fight. Rise up today and fight.

                                                                                  • #64516
                                                                                    Ronald Beal
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Wise men have been saying for centuries that evil succeeds when Good men do nothing.
                                                                                      Is it out of fear? Fear of rejection? Fear of being the odd kid at school? The rude neighbor? The obnoxious loudmouth…

                                                                                      I think the answer to this was hinted at in the Declaration of Independence:

                                                                                      “and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed”

                                                                                    • #64517
                                                                                      eric
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        I think the majority of Americans that think along our lines are fed up I know I am.

                                                                                        But most of us have family’s and moral obligations. To take care of. And while there is still jobs and money flowing the silent majority will keep providing. Untill the Money runs out and then when there is nothing left to lose the people will lose it.

                                                                                        If I were a single man with no family I would be far more revolutionary. Don’t get me wrong if a 2nd cival war or revolution breaks out I will tell my family I love them and send them to the in-laws and do my part. But in the mean time I am committed to providing for my family.

                                                                                        This is how I feel. Not untill the financial collapse will we see any thing major happen. But it’s brewing look at the Bundy ranch the people are fed up.

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