Unprepared and Overwhelmed

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    • #76564
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

        The SunSentinel newspaper in Florida has been doing a series of articles about the Parkland shooting. Surprising since they lean left.

        Take the time to read all of it. He could have been stopped several times before he even started shooting. Some of the people that were hailed as “heroes” were the reason why he was able to get away with it.

        Not a single person involved in this has received any punishment or backlash.

        It is still the fault of gun owners and the NRA.

        http://projects.sun-sentinel.com/2018/sfl-parkland-school-shooting-critical-moments/#nt=oft12aH-1la1

        FILO
        Signal Out, Can You Identify
        Je ne regrette rien
        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

      • #76565
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          I wish it was more of a shock.

          When my kids were in school I gave them a variety of options, many were contrary to school policy, but quite frankly I didn’t care.

          Of course Florida solved this by raising age of purchasing rifle/shotguns! :wacko:

        • #76566
          Hessian
          Participant

            I saw this article last night.

            I found it amazing on how many people failed to act and call a code red to lock down the school.

            The school was also negligent by locking bathrooms to prevent students from vaping as well as blocking areas that didn’t give a shooter a LOS if they were looking into the class room with teachers desks and other items.

            The cops… well the bodycam footage they had in the article seemed like the guy was in no hurry to don his body armor and respond to the shooter.

            Overall I was impressed with the breakdown of the event.

          • #76567
            Abacus
            Participant

              The only non-tragic takeaway from the fiasco is huricane glass can stop rifle rounds.

              The killer tried to shoot through the teachers’ lounge window at students outside. It being a Florida school meant there was huricane glass in that window. Said glass stopped the rounds and possibly saved lives.

              Hopefully the event will cause a reevaluation of tactics, strategy, and doctrine within the law enforcement, security, and first responder comunities/industry. That is my prayer anyway.

            • #76568
              Mike Q
              Participant

                Hopefully they’ll look at the construction of the building as well. Since the hurricane glass stopped the rounds why not install in every window inside the school. Or even better a ballistics glass. Then install ballistic blankets on the backs of all of the doors as well. Simple add ons which should actually protect the students who must “shelter in place.”

                We protect all of the schools from fires by how the building is built. How long will it take to adjust the construction for the new shooter threat?

              • #76569
                Abacus
                Participant

                  There are a ton of things to be learned from the situation. I am not really qualified to do a true lessons learned type study, but it would be a shame if those folks who are don’t do it. It would be worse if the results of such studies are ignored by decision makers. This is doubly true since that kind of work is not easy and requires a level of neutrality and detachment that is hard to do especially in light of the media attention. This could be a Miami Shootout type learning event for law enforcement. Tragic while still being instructive.

                • #76570
                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                  Moderator

                    The following linked Thread has much more information regarding this shooting. The entire Thread is worth examining as a review, but the link starts on page two and the related corruption that led to this event, but has been suppressed by further corruption and biased Media.

                    Florida High School Shooting

                    A partial review.

                    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

                    If you think this is isolated to Florida, think again. :wacko:

                    This is only the beginning if a real investigation does occur.

                    Many layers and different directions and not just Socialist Democrats!

                    This could be the beginning of a “black swan event” though unfortunately it could still be swept under the rug, but not for long.

                    I don’t think people really understand just how true your post is.

                    This is interesting…

                    Maybe, just maybe starting to out come out?!

                    Broward County’s School Leniency Program Part of Larger Obama-Era Plan to Force School ‘Equity’

                    Excerpt:

                    Nikolas Cruz, who could face the death penalty for the alleged murder of 17 students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, was never arrested for prior reported violent acts and threats of violence, a likely reason why he was able to pass a background check and purchase the firearm he used in the shooting rampage.

                    And…

                    Excerpt:

                    The plan behind the Obama administration’s 2014 Dear Colleague letter that coerced public school districts into avoiding reports of aggressive and threatening behavior by minority students had been years in the making in Chicago when Broward County superintendent Robert Runcie was still working for Arne Duncan, who was CEO of Chicago Public Schools (CPS) prior to being tapped by President Barack Obama as U.S. education secretary.

                    And…

                    Excerpt:

                    Sperry observes school district records show Broward County has “transitioned” about 2,000 incarcerated students – some with a high risk of re-offenses – back into the school system.

                    And…

                    Excerpt:

                    Students referred to the program include those “returning from residential Juvenile Justice Programs,” such as students “convicted of a serious crime such as: rape, murder, attempted murder, sexual battery or firearm related,” and those whose behavior off campus would qualify them for expulsion.

                    Just wait until the amount of money this program was bringing in becomes known, especially the hidden kick backs to those in control of these programs.

                    Both individuals and County were making big bucks to participate in this scheme!

                    Though it still remains to be seen if the truth will actually be brought out.

                    The truth has been reported, but no real action has been taking or is likely to be taking.

                    These Government employees are not just extremely corrupt, but are extreme incompetent cowards as well.

                    I don’t see any lessons learned being acted upon rolling the dice with children’s lives is acceptable to these dirt bags!

                  • #76571
                    wheelsee
                    Participant

                      Just another reason to home school and I don’t say this lightly……we chose private school but admin was open to doing active shooter drills during the year…….with lockdowns practiced.

                      We haven’t lost a single student to a school fire since the 1960s…..when fire drills became mandatory……lesson here??

                    • #76572
                      wheelsee
                      Participant

                        Just thinking out loud……while the courts have ruled “no duty to engage” for the officers or department, could someone still argue civil charges for dereliction of duty for failure to notify?? (Calling for the lockdown??)

                      • #76573
                        First Sergeant
                        Moderator

                          There are a ton of things to be learned from the situation. I am not really qualified to do a true lessons learned type study, but it would be a shame if those folks who are don’t do it. It would be worse if the results of such studies are ignored by decision makers. This is doubly true since that kind of work is not easy and requires a level of neutrality and detachment that is hard to do especially in light of the media attention. This could be a Miami Shootout type learning event for law enforcement. Tragic while still being instructive.

                          I would love to see that. It will never happen. The powers that be have already decided who is at fault and will do nothing to anyone involved in this. The reasons for this go all the way to Obamas presidency.

                          There are other reasons, but for once I will keep my mouth shut. If I didn’t it would cause a whole lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

                          Hopefully they’ll look at the construction of the building as well. Since the hurricane glass stopped the rounds why not install in every window inside the school. Or even better a ballistics glass. Then install ballistic blankets on the backs of all of the doors as well. Simple add ons which should actually protect the students who must “shelter in place.”

                          We protect all of the schools from fires by how the building is built. How long will it take to adjust the construction for the new shooter threat?

                          One of the biggest reasons that this wont happen is cost. Most school boards have looked at the odds and have decided against it. Hell, the majority of places wont allow armed teachers.

                          These are just random nut jobs that could have been stopped way before it ever got to the shooting stage. I am actually surprised that we haven’t had a Beslan type of event here in the U.S.

                          FILO
                          Signal Out, Can You Identify
                          Je ne regrette rien
                          In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                        • #76574
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            I am actually surprised that we haven’t had a Beslan type of event here in the U.S.

                            For those that haven’t read “Day of Wrath” by William R. Forstchen as a example of how exposed our schools really are to a dedicated terror attack. While a work of fiction I see nothing to prevent such an attack here.

                          • #76575
                            joe m
                            Participant

                              Florida used a politically appointed commission to assess this incident, I wish they would have hired an outside professional agency to do a review. In the Aurora Colorado theater shooting a few years ago, Aurora PD hired a group, don’t remember the name, made of ex-military and law enforcement types to review the incident and make recommendations. I would give more credence to such a report than to the one in Florida. Since the Florida review was so damning, for a politically appointed group to say this, leads me to believe the situation was even more horrifying then we’ve been told. The only group I’ve seen who can take any pride in this incident is the Coral Gables PD. They came through heavy traffic and on arrival went in guns drawn. Did the stop the killing or save lives? I do not know. But at least “They TRIED”. More than Broward County can say.

                            • #76576
                              Anonymous
                              Inactive

                                I am actually surprised that we haven’t had a Beslan type of event here in the U.S.

                                For those that haven’t read “Day of Wrath” by William R. Forstchen as a example of how exposed our schools really are to a dedicated terror attack. While a work of fiction I see nothing to prevent such an attack here.

                                Agreed, the amazing thing about these shootings is how inept these guys actually are, they only rack up kill counts by blindly targeting large crowds. Someone with a clear mind could do God-knows-much worse, I’m sure you’ve seen some of the same IEDs and inghimasi shit that we did.

                                Probably the closest that we’ve had here so far was the Dallas shooter, but he was only focused on killing cops.

                              • #76577
                                wheelsee
                                Participant

                                  Probably the closest that we’ve had here so far was the Dallas shooter, but he was only focused on killing cops.

                                  and killed 5……. not a bad ratio….

                                • #76578
                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                  Moderator

                                    Agreed, the amazing thing about these shootings is how inept these guys actually are…

                                    We’ve been very fortunate and I am concerned that it won’t last.

                                    Probably the closest that we’ve had here so far was the Dallas shooter, but he was only focused on killing cops.

                                    and killed 5……. not a bad ratio….

                                    Imagine the damage a small team working in concert could inflict.

                                    I still have problems with the Dallas shooters official background and what he demonstrated on video. His competency on video seemed to be one of an combat experienced Veteran, vice the reported 12W Carpentry and Masonry Specialist.

                                    Not promoting any “Tin foil” just his actions exceeded his resume.

                                    The majority of our American LEO’s are not prepared to deal with a dedicated group with aggressive use of SUT.

                                  • #76579
                                    wheelsee
                                    Participant

                                      <

                                      The majority of our American LEO’s are not prepared to deal with a dedicated group with aggressive use of SUT.

                                      Different ROEs……a dedicated group has none or different than what is accepted in CONUS. Even the Dallas PD took flak afterwards for using a robotic explosive device to neutralize the threat versus taking more casualties effecting an arrest. Not sure where it will lead but THAT gate has been opened (unless one remembers MOVE in Philadelphia, 1985 – though the intent, IIRC< was to force them in the open versus actually killing them).

                                      Early 90’s, SWAT training with a SEAL (one of the officer’s son). We were training difficult arrest situations. In one, the SEAL states, “if he bucks too much, just put a bullet in his head.” Eye-opener for all of us as we stated “ever heard of the Constitution??” But it did show the vast gulf of ROE and thought processes…..

                                    • #76580
                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                      Moderator

                                        Different ROEs…

                                        Of course and not meant as a insult to LEO’s, I wonder what will happen if/when they get hit by such an attack as in the aftermath. Even if it was something to be prepared for, when would they find time to learn and maintain such a perishable skillset?

                                        Even the Dallas PD took flak afterwards for using a robotic explosive device to neutralize the threat versus taking more casualties effecting an arrest.

                                        I’ll admit I was uncomfortable with this course of action despite its effectiveness, but can’t fault it as long as it doesn’t become a typical response.

                                      • #76581
                                        SeanT
                                        Keymaster

                                          <

                                          The majority of our American LEO’s are not prepared to deal with a dedicated group with aggressive use of SUT.

                                          (unless one remembers MOVE in Philadelphia, 1985 – though the intent, IIRC< was to force them in the open versus actually killing them).

                                          I know a little bit about the MOVE thing. I have a relative that was there on that scene as a LEO who was asked and declined to be the one to drop that demo. The building was fortified with logs. The PD literally had shot away the siding and exposed the ‘bunker’ type fortification. The satchel charge that was tossed out of the helo was intended to bust the fortification. Clearly it went very badly. The resulting fire was huge, I think 86 houses burned. FD held back as they believed they were taking fire. The rebuilding after that event was another shitshow as the cost was like 90K per unit back in those days and the shoddy construction and kickbacks etc were another huge embarrassment to the city.

                                        • #76582
                                          tango
                                          Participant

                                            Kind of strange to think that you have to teach adults to protect children. Or that there is no consequence for failing to do so.

                                          • #76583
                                            wesmc
                                            Participant

                                              It seems to me that a whole bunch of corrupt motherfuckers, headed up by Barack Obama, successfully engineered a school shooting to help push their anti-gun agenda and got rich in the process. I hope all of those cocksuckers burn in hell.

                                            • #76584
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                Parkland Investigatory Commission Issues Report Calling for Armed Teachers

                                                Excerpt:

                                                On November 21, Breitbart News reported that the man leading the commission–Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri–had already made clear that the investigation had caused him to drop his opposition to armed teachers. His former position was to allow only law enforcement to be armed on campus, but that changed after the investigation turned up the fact that Parkland gunman had enough time to pause and reload five times the attack. During any one of those five reloads an armed teacher or staff member could have shot the gunman and stopped the attack.

                                                On December 12, the Associated Press reported that the investigatory commission voted 13-1 to “recommend the Legislature allow the arming of those teachers, saying it’s not enough to have one or two police officers or armed guards on campus.”

                                                Imagine that!

                                              • #76585
                                                First Sergeant
                                                Moderator

                                                  If all of the above is bad enough.

                                                  https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/12/31/the_sheriff_the_sheriffs_son_and_the_coward_of_broward.html

                                                  You can’t make this stuff up.

                                                  The entire system is corrupt. The state of Florida knew what was going on with the altered crime statistics and did nothing, and that was Republican controlled government. This includes the Martin shooting. They knew that kid was a damn criminal but stood by while an innocent man was vilified and tried.

                                                  The entire Broward County Sheriffs department needs to be disbanded and none of them ever allowed to work in law enforcement. All of the leadership should be in prison.

                                                  This is what is wrong with this country. Politicians, judges, prosecutors, cops, teachers and parents are all in on it. They just keep going along to get along. They don’t give one damn about the consequences of their actions. It’s always someone else’s fault or I was just following orders.

                                                  Save the “but there are good people trying to make a difference” bullshit. If that was the case they would be screaming from the rooftops. Notice the silence? All they care about is a paycheck, a pension and don’t rock the boat.

                                                  FILO
                                                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                  Je ne regrette rien
                                                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                • #76586
                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                  Moderator

                                                    Ron DeSantis was sworn in as Florida’s 46th governor this Tuesday.

                                                    Report: Republican Gov. DeSantis to Replace Scott Israel with Broward’s First Black Sheriff

                                                    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is reportedly planning to replace embattled Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel with the county’s first black sheriff.

                                                    Politico reports that the new appointee will be Coral Springs Police Sgt. Gregory Tony.

                                                    Tony was recommended by Andrew Pollack, father of the late Meadow Pollack, who was killed in the February 14, 2018, Parkland school shooting. Pollack said, “[Tony’s] a law-and-order-type policeman who wants to do right by the community and keep the community safe.”

                                                    News of a replacement for Sheriff Israel comes just days after he told his staff that DeSantis was suspending him over his office’s handling of the Parkland schooting.

                                                    On January 8, 2019, Breitbart News reported that Israel was convinced his suspension was inevitable. The Miami Herald quoted BSO union chief Jeff Bell saying, “We know that he is telling everyone at the public safety building that he is going to be gone.”

                                                    Israel has taken heavy criticism for allowing former deputy Scot Peterson to retire following the Parkland shooting. Peterson stood outside the school building and listened to shots being fired instead of going inside to confront the gunman. By not firing Peterson, and allowing him instead to resign, Israel was ridiculed for allegedly contributing to scenario in which the former deputy, aka the “Coward of Broward,” now draws over $100,000 a year in pension.

                                                    Bold mine.

                                                    Hopefully this is just the begining!

                                                  • #76587
                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                    Moderator

                                                      Well it’s a done deal! B-)

                                                      Governor DeSantis suspends Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel

                                                      Excerpt:

                                                      FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (WFLA/AP) – Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has suspended Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel, effective immediately.

                                                      DeSantis made the announcement outside of the sheriff’s office, surrounded by parents of victims of the Stoneman Douglas High School massacre, on Friday.

                                                      Gregory Tony is the acting sheriff in his place.

                                                      Following the Feb. 14 shooting that left 17 dead, then-candidate DeSantis told supporters he’d suspend Israel but retreated in later appearances.

                                                      Under Florida law, the governor can suspend elected officials for criminal activity, misfeasance, incompetence or neglect of duty.

                                                      This is an outstanding start in what will hopefully be a true effort to clean up corruption in Broward!

                                                      It won’t be an easy task as it runs very deep.

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