Thunder / Flashbang?

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  • This topic has 34 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 11 months ago by Anonymous. This post has been viewed 456 times
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    • #61936
      Max
      Keymaster

        Anyone know of a resource for a legitimate banger that cna be used for simulation for the Max Talk videos, and also maybe later on be used as banger on classes etc?

        I see the CO2 stuff and it is crap. Looking for a bang and a bit of smoke, but nothing to get ATF on my ass!

        Is the Enola Gaye Thunderflash the best option?

        If you have video, post it. Thanks!

      • #61937
        Max
        Keymaster

          Not tannerite…this needs to be person initiated in relatively close proximity. A military thunderflash would be the equivalent.

        • #61938
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            I believe the current gold standard is the Royal Arms FBG-MK3.

            FBG-MK3 NFDD FLASH BANG TRAINER

            $299.00

            FBG-MKIII

            The new FBG-MkIII received a major overhaul; all aspects have been redesigned and engineered to withstand the most hostile environments. Based on our Popular FBG-MkII we listened to many top level operators and realized what improvement could be made. We went back to the drawing board and spent countless hours researching and testing different materials in search of a more durable product. We consulted with several metallurgists to create a new more durable impact resistant heat-treated tool steel for our FBG-MkIII. In turn we increased the impact strength and abrasion resistance by more than 700% over the FBG-MkII. Furthermore we increased the structural integrity of every internal component in all the critical areas. The new chamber threads have been switched from a Metric fine thread to a Quick Lock Acme Stub that acts as a sealed breech upon assembly but allows the user to easily disassemble once initiated. The new acme thread has 300% more thread engagement yet screws together in half the amount of turns compared to the FBG-MkII

            Description: The FBG3 is a Revolutionary Impact Detonated Flash Bang Training Device which creates 175dB, 4psi of over pressure and 500K CP. The FBG3 Flash Bang was designed to provide realistic training at a low cost per bang.

            History/Background: The Impact Flash Bang was developed to overcome the shortcomings of traditional M201 Fuse type. Standard M201 fuse type Flash Bangs have a delay of 1.5sec /- .03 seconds, which creates uncertainty where the flash bang will detonate (anywhere from 1.2 – 1.8 sec).

            Our Impact Flash Bang (FBG3) solves all of the problem associated with traditional M201 fuse type Flash Bangs. Our Impact Flash Bangs are not a time delay they are detonated where they strike. The operator can deploy against a Wall, Window, Slider, Car door, Car Window, Second Story, ceiling wall couch or any other object they strike. Our FBG3 is not an explosive, and will never take off like a rocket. Our FBG3 will not become so hot they start fires, they are cool to the touch upon initiation. With the FBG3 you will never have to worry about the fuse separating and injuring personnel. The FBG3 produces a loud bang with minimal smoke eliminating the operational hazard associated with smoke. The most important feature of the FBG3 is its ability to be serviced and re-loaded by the user.

            Potential Targets/Applications: Training Environments, New operator Inoculation, Individual Targets, Prison/Civil Rioters Training, Active Shooter Training, Animal Control/Conditioning. Other Training applications

            Primary Users: Law Enforcement, Military

            Incapacitation Mechanism/Technology: The FBG3 round creates 4psi of over pressure at 175dB and 500K CP brightness, producing controlled and directed impact ensures the safe deployment and use.

            Physical Data:
            A. Size: Length= 4 1/2 inch,
            B. Weight: 300 Grams (universal chamber
            C. Payload: 175dB, 4psi of over pressure and 500K CP brightness
            D. Power Requirements: None
            E. Delivery Means: Hand Held Thrown / Tossed

            FBG BANG PRIMER ADAPTOR uses 209 Primers for a 120 Db bang with little flash and no overpreasure.

            The important thing is these are reusable with either 12 ga blanks or 209 primers.

            Video of older MKII

          • #61939
            Max
            Keymaster

              Lots of money for not much bang. Good product though. I want exterior bang simulators, not CQB flashbang trainers. Like IED style simulators.

            • #61940
              Andrew
              Participant
              • #61941
                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                Moderator

                  What is the desired effect?

                  A big bang with smoke?

                  A flash, bang, and billowing cloud?

                  Describe the look and I can narrow down some options! ;-)

                • #61943
                  Max
                  Keymaster

                    IED 1N MUNITION SIMULATOR

                    http://uxoinfo.com/blogcfc/client/includes/uxopages/Mulvaney_Details.cfm?Ord_Id=Y34

                    No idea what the cost is. Sorry.

                    Thanks for that. I sent them an email. Also asking how their throwable grenade simulator compares to the Enola Gaye Mk5.

                    Joe: This is the kind of thing I am looking for. The genesis is a Max Talk I am cooking up involving a casualty, to be initiated with the best explosion I can get. Has to be initiated by me on my own and then carry on with the action, so a throwable with a delay, or an electric det works. I already have my weighted target mannikin all dressed up and ready to be dragged. This will not happen this week (class), but maybe the following week.

                    If I can get something as close as possible to the old arty sims (we called them thunderflashes in BrtiMil) then I can also use them to liven up training etc.

                    So best bang (and smoke) is the priority. Tannerite would work if I shot way within safety distances (like 10 yards) but they have all sports of weirdness about commercial use etc. So tannerite levels of explosion at close range would be optimal. I’m trying to blow myself up. :yahoo:

                  • #61944
                    JustARandomGuy
                    Participant

                      Not sure these would have enough “punch” for an IED sim, but may be fun to have for CQB/”bunker clearing” props.
                      Obviously the bigger ones are louder, and there’s also a sound difference between the “flash” and “bang” options…

                      https://www.enolagaye.com/product-category/thunderflashes/

                      You are correct on the C02 options- they are very unreliable, and not really that loud either.

                      As far as tannerite goes…it does still have a “kinetic” blast radius, ie, it will pick up and throw things. The potential for folks having a bit more realistic IED experience than they’d like is still there.
                      Perhaps I’m biased, but I’ve just seen way to many people do way to much retarded shit with it, to ever want to be associated with it business wise… :unsure:

                    • #61945
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        I see what I can find.

                        Back in the “day” we used to find the U.S. Version electrically fired artillery simulators in Army/Navy Surplus stores, fun stuff for a teenager! Amazed I survived my youth.

                        How much demolitions experience do you have? ;-)

                        There maybe some improvised options available using black powder/pyrodex.

                        Not sure about WV right now, but many states don’t have laws restricting muzzle loaded cannon/mortars. A vertically positioned mortar could have a large report, lots of smoke, yet direct most of the blast up.

                        Anyway let’s see what I kind find “off the shelf” first! :yes:

                      • #61946
                        JohnnyMac
                        Participant

                          Like IED style simulators.

                          I’ve looked into this. The best bet is probably a DIY pneumatic simulator. Third party sourced are crazy money: https://explotrain.com/product/xp-870/

                          The other option is of a pyrotechnic nature. There’s a difference, law-wise, between pyrotechnics for personal use, and ones for professional use. Even still, a basic pyrotechnic cert. is pretty easy.

                        • #61947
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            I think the biggest bang for the buck (literally) is going to be a Thunder Mug signal mortar. Most places it just considered a black powder firearm even when firing a a signal charge.

                            Use an electrical ignition for timing convenience. Hidden from view using a terrain feature.

                            Several shots.

                            Here is a video showing some variations in charge size, you could buy one, have one made, or diy.

                          • #61948
                            Max
                            Keymaster

                              You guys are probably overthinking this. Why am I surprised? ;-)

                              I have some EG Thunderflashes on order. We are talking week wednesday for the planned making of this parricular scenario. Obviously longer term we can look at solutions for training.

                            • #61949
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                You guys are probably overthinking this.

                                If you want…

                                So tannerite levels of explosion at close range would be optimal.

                                …it’s not happening with a glorified firecracker! :yes:

                                :good:

                              • #61950
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  8 INCH LARGER SIZED MUG
                                  $120

                                  8 Inch Larger Sized Mug, 2 inch bore.

                                  Takes 700 gr of black powder

                                  Choice of cerakote, powder coat or hydro dipped. Please email or call for preference on finishes.

                                  From a review.

                                  What a blast, 1400 grains of black powder and day old biscuit. Do not shoot it near building it can break windows.

                                • #61951
                                  trailman
                                  Participant

                                    That blackpowder thinger would make a great IED type device. You can use model rocket igniters and a 9 volt to set it off. There is a place near Winchester or Middletown where you can get BP by the keg. At least with that device you won’t have flying debris as a safety factor it will all go up.

                                  • #61952
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      You can use model rocket igniters and a 9 volt to set it off.

                                      For filming purposes I’d run my wires to improvised pressure switch so it goes off with you in frame when stepped on, with sufficient standoff of course.

                                      It would be visually impressive! ;-)

                                    • #61953
                                      Andrew
                                      Participant

                                        Just don’t forget that Murphy is always waiting to make an appearance.

                                      • #61954
                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                        Moderator

                                          Just don’t forget that Murphy is always waiting to make an appearance.

                                          The good thing about black powder in such a directional use is its consistency.

                                          I would never get close to a tannerite charge.

                                          Most have seen this…

                                        • #61955
                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                          Moderator

                                            Of course this was beyond stupid.

                                            If you don’t understand safety regarding things that go boom, leave it alone.

                                          • #61956
                                            Andrew
                                            Participant

                                              If you don’t understand safety regarding things that go boom, leave it alone.

                                              AMEN! :good:

                                            • #61957
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                It’s truly amazing the stupidity demonstrated on YouTube.

                                                Check out this “rocket scientist!”

                                                With kids near it too! :wacko:

                                              • #61958
                                                wheelsee
                                                Participant

                                                  “put it IN the fridge”……. dumbass, when an explosive is surrounded by something rigid, it’s called a “BOMB” (in this case, a refrigerator bomb?)

                                                • #61959
                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                  Moderator

                                                    “put it IN the fridge”……. dumbass, when an explosive is surrounded by something rigid, it’s called a “BOMB” (in this case, a refrigerator bomb?)

                                                    Yes the only thing that saved disaster was the doors being the weak point on top and divine grace (or dumb luck if you prefer)!

                                                  • #61960
                                                    Robert
                                                    Participant

                                                      I see what I can find.

                                                      Back in the “day” we used to find the U.S. Version electrically fired artillery simulators in Army/Navy Surplus stores, fun stuff for a teenager! Amazed I survived my youth.

                                                      How much demolitions experience do you have? ;-)

                                                      There maybe some improvised options available using black powder/pyrodex.

                                                      Not sure about WV right now, but many states don’t have laws restricting muzzle loaded cannon/mortars. A vertically positioned mortar could have a large report, lots of smoke, yet direct most of the blast up.

                                                      Anyway let’s see what I kind find “off the shelf” first! :yes:

                                                      Did they call those “Hoffman Devices?” Looked like a really really big fire cracker?

                                                    • #61961
                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                      Moderator

                                                        I don’t remember right now, but I remember they were marked with what they were simulating, hence my fondness for 155mmm. ;-)

                                                      • #61962
                                                        Abacus
                                                        Participant

                                                          I am a little foggy on what your exact requirements are, but If you want noise outdoors, look into those propane powered vortex cannons used to keep birds away from crops and airfields. They are loud, relatively safe, reusable, and ATF hassle free. There is no smoke though, and you probably would have to set them up off the actual range at your site given their size and need for a propane bottle. Perhaps putting one behind or off to the side of the lanes might work.

                                                          I don’t know of you can command detonate them though. The ones they used back home just kind of went boom every so often as the gas in the combustion chamber hit the right fuel air mixture based on the propane flow rate. It’s been a while since I have seen one so they may have better smaller ones now.

                                                        • #61963
                                                          First Sergeant
                                                          Moderator

                                                            Did they call those “Hoffman Devices?” Looked like a really really big fire cracker?

                                                            No, a Hoffman Device is what is used to simulate tank main gun fire.

                                                            The ones Joe and Max are talking about are artillery simulators. It is small, hand held made out of waxed cardboard with a pull string. It would whistle before it went off.

                                                            The grenade sims worked the same way but no whistle.

                                                            FILO
                                                            Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                            Je ne regrette rien
                                                            In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                          • #61964
                                                            Roadkill
                                                            Participant

                                                              Max if you want one of these little cannon mortar thingeys I can make you one or two no charge. I won’t have time to do it this week for class but I’ll see what I can do. I’m the one bringing the 32” gong for the 1000 yard range, so you know a little of what I’m capable of. This is a pic of one I just pulled out of the shop, I guess I could have it this week. It’s got a 2” bore, and is 3 1/2” x 11 1/2” long. I still have to drill the fuse hole, but if you want it I’ll bring it Thursday. I’ll weld a heavy base plate for stability.

                                                            • #61965
                                                              Robert
                                                              Participant

                                                                For some reason I remember someone calling them a “hoffman device” but they probably didn’t really WTH it was called. It sounds exactly like what Joe described.

                                                                On the black power deals- had a friend 100 years ago that did Civil War reenactments. He made up these “smudge pots” (his term I guess) that was a short piece of iron pipe open on one end, that he poured concrete around inside a little 1 gallon pail. He used solar igniters to fire it off. Someone asked him about the whole contraption and he claimed it was legit because the black powder was not contained?? But what he had looks just like those items in the pics and videos you guys posted. Assuming it’s legal because the black powder is not contained??

                                                              • #61966
                                                                Billy
                                                                Participant

                                                                  These are also Co2 powered only run like 20-30 bucks i believe
                                                                  https://www.evike.com/products/34417/

                                                                • #61967
                                                                  Max
                                                                  Keymaster

                                                                    This what what I was originally thinking of, or similar. This is not a Brit Army thunderflash but it seems similar, best vid I can find so far. The thunderflash is a grenade or mortar incoming simulator. Don’t really want the ones with the whistle.

                                                                  • #61968
                                                                    Mike
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      https://youtu.be/vDSQnu7THaA

                                                                      Tlsfx makes them but all i find are uk airsoft retailers. If you find them in the US let me know.

                                                                    • #61969
                                                                      Abacus
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        I have been on the receiving end of both the pyro and CO2 airsoft simulators. This was in the states so they both used to be available here.

                                                                        The CO2 models I saw back in the day was just loud and had a really finiky fuse. Sometimes they would go off in 5 seconds, sometimes it took up to a minute or more. They were more annoying than useful and we’re hardly distracting once you knew what they were. Even then the distraction comes not from the noise when it popped, but rather the WTF factor as it skitters into the room. The shells are not reusable but the cores are.

                                                                        The pyro ones were used by some out of town types I played with at a large regional match. I never got to mess with them personally. They worked a bit better as they actually flashed.

                                                                        The first time I had a pyro powered fake flashbag thrown at me, I ran from it. I assumed some dude had just thrown an actual firework down the hall and I did not want to get burned. That had happened to me before at less reputable venues. Airsofters do dumb stuff.

                                                                      • #61970
                                                                        Anonymous
                                                                        Inactive

                                                                          Max! these are about the best civi legal carry flash bangs used for airsoft. But work surprisingly well. They are maid in England but a few places in the states carry them. Also they use the shorty 12ga blanks(buy the ones that flash) and 9mm blanks as well as 22 blanks. Hope this helps.

                                                                          :good: https://jdairsoft.net/trmr/trmr-e2

                                                                        • #61971
                                                                          Anonymous
                                                                          Inactive

                                                                            TRMR E2 – Black

                                                                            More images click to enlarge…

                                                                            Product Description

                                                                            T.R.M.R. E2 Training (Pat Pending)
                                                                            The T.R.M.R.

                                                                            The TRMR E2 is a reloadable device designed to meet current and anticipated needs of professional users. Developed to provide realistic training at a low cost per deployment, additional training is available on a given budget. The benefits of additional training are increased operator performance and safety. TRMR brings additional improvements through the ease of use, speed of deployment, increased safety and reduced cost. Minimal servicing is required to maintain reliable, dependable function. This new device helps familiarise operators with diversionary devices and is an effective audible and visual distraction with temporary stun effect.
                                                                            Features
                                                                            Immediate option to safely make safe in a ‘no-throw’ situation
                                                                            Eliminates unpredictable fuse delay timing
                                                                            Eliminates risk of fragmentation of fuse or main body causing injury from flying parts
                                                                            Dramatically reduces fire hazard from discharge
                                                                            Impact technology reduces risk of unintended initiation area through bouncing/rolling
                                                                            Cylindrical design avoids snagging or hang-up when drawn from pouch
                                                                            No levers and pins to collect or lose
                                                                            Rotating action provides up to 50% time reduction to deployment
                                                                            Natural instinctive operation
                                                                            Dimensions:20mm (H), 43mm (Diameter)
                                                                            Weight:500g
                                                                            The device as supplied is loaded and reloaded with either standard ‘209’ primers / 8mm / 9mm Blanks. Or certain specific 12G shotgun blank cartridges according to training/operational requirement.
                                                                            Operational requirements
                                                                            It is essential that users are fully conversant with the specific operation of this device and correctly trained in the safe use of less lethal distraction devices and that appropriate Personal Protective Equipment is worn at all times.
                                                                            Operational use
                                                                            Ensure that the TRMR E2 is safe to load (or unload), if the unit has been recovered from a deployment rotate the uppermost portion of the device anticlockwise – against the direction of the ‘ARM’ arrow until it stops. The word ‘SAFE’ should be visible in the recessed portion.
                                                                            The TRMR E2 is now loaded by grasping the upper and lower parts in each hand and rotating the main body anti clockwise 1.5 turns. The lower housing will separate from the main body. A primer cap or blank is inserted and pressed home until level with the cavity’s upper surface.
                                                                            The TRMR E2 is set ‘ready’ by depressing and holding down the safety lever then rotating the upper portion clockwise. This is easily accomplished and is as familiar as closing a glass jar. While the safety lever remains depressed, the TRMR E2 is held in a safe condition. Once a commitment to deploy has been made, the device is deployed and initiates on contact with a hard surface. A unique and revolutionary safety feature of the device is that AT ANY TIME until deployment, it may be returned to its ‘carry’ condition with all three layers of safety applied by rotating the upper portion anti-clockwise. In this way the operator can exercise the choice NOT to deploy and can re-pouch the device as conditions or requirements demand.
                                                                            Note
                                                                            The device is transported from the supplier without any primer or any other load and is completely inert.

                                                                            Please note: The Multi-shot base does not fit this version.

                                                                            Please note:
                                                                            It is the responsibility of the purchaser to ensure the legality of importation into their own country. JD Airsoft Ltd can not accept any responsibility whatsoever if the goods ordered are seized by Customs officials or airport authorities in ours or any other country. If goods are seized, destroyed, damaged through inspection or confiscated in any instance, we accept no responsibility and will offer no form of refund or credit. Please see our terms and conditions for full details.

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