thoughts on bullpups?

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    • #102295
      eric
      Participant

        What are your guys thoughts on bullpups? Specifically th Tavor.
        I’ve never been a fan being a lefty I don’t want to eat brass. But after handling a Tavor. I took the plunge. It’s still in lay away so I haven’t shot it yet.
        I like the idea of full-length barrel in an sbr package.
        What do you guys think?
        Interested in what max’s thoughts if he ran a bullpup for the British military.

      • #102296
        Max
        Keymaster

          As another lefty, the Tavor appeals to me because it’s fully ambidextrous and reversible. I got to play with one a few years back and liked the way it handled. I’ll be sticking with ARs, though, just based on the advantages of commonality of logistics and training.

          Still, if I had the budget for it, I’d definitely get one for my collection.

        • #102297
          Corvette
          Participant

            FN makes one that takes AR magazines and ejects forward of the barrel so being wronghanded isn’t a problem. It’s a bit bulky though. I love the idea of bull pups for smaller statured people or as a lower-profile weapon. If I didn’t have so much time and money invested in AR weapons I’d be all over bull pups. I do like the MSAR E4. If I had a tiny teammate it would be bigger factor too.

          • #102298
            Thomas
            Participant

              A friend purchased the FN when it came on the market. I found it to be only okay. There were several things that I did not like about the design. I did not like the ejection system and how empty shell casings were pushed out the front of the hand guard. I found the design to be very bulky. The rifle handled well and pointed well. However, the design has not really grown on me over the years.

            • #102299
              JustARandomGuy
              Participant

                Second the comments on bulkiness- the FS2000 I picked up once felt like a small jet ski, and what I’ve seen of the Tavor so far isn’t really helping change my opinion of that. So far the only BP rifle that’s seemed to lack the bulk (and the retarded gappy trigerguard/grip) is the Keltec RFB, but… the nonstandard FAL mag issue there alone is not encouraging me to look further into it.

              • #102300
                JohnyMac
                Participant

                  Eric, have you looked at left handed uppers? Here is one.

                • #102301
                  Gladius
                  Participant

                    I have a Kel Tec RFB. I love the way it shoots (its one of the softest shooting 308 I have shot. It handles very nicely. Its one big draw back to me is its legitimacy as a true SHTF due to its unknown track record. Since I have discovered this website and signed up the November class I am thinking I need a 5.56 caliber. I am seriously thinking about trading it for a Tavor. Either that or trading one of the PSL’s I own.

                    Coming from the vietnam generation i have a dislike the 5.56 due to its modest penetration qualities.

                    However I see the value of a lightwt rd that has good chances of being plentiful in a SHTF enviroment. It outdoes my 7.63×39 assault rifles for accuracy and is much lighter than the 308 battle rifles that I currently own.

                  • #102302
                    eric
                    Participant

                      The standard ar platform does not bother me.
                      My thoughts were I travel a lot out of state and I wanted something more compact than the Colt with out the sbr travel hassles. Also that the Tavor takes ar mags was a huge factor and it seems to be pretty battle proven.
                      As far as the FN goes that is the most fugly rifle I have ever seen.
                      Like I said bullpups never appealed to me than I handled a KSG 12 gauge liked it so much I bought it and is now my go to shotgun for home defence. Plus with the Tavor I could run my can and still be in same length of a standard ar.

                    • #102303
                      Corvette
                      Participant

                        I handled a tavor recently. I liced how it maneuvered in a close quarters type environment. The price tag is too steep for me though.

                      • #102304
                        Gladius
                        Participant

                          Traded one of my PSL’s and 600 for a new tavor today.Now will start getting rest of my gear for the November class and start getting these old bones in shape!

                        • #102305
                          Corvette
                          Participant

                            The Tavor looks great on paper.
                            Was strongly considering it myself BUT reviewers I trust ( the non cheerleader type) have 2 major issue with it.
                            – very poor trigger that makes it near impossible to leverage the long barrell
                            – As with most bullpups you get a lot of gas thrown in your face.

                            here is one of those reviews:
                            http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/06/foghorn/gun-review-iwi-tavor-sar/

                          • #102306
                            Max
                            Keymaster

                              I am no expert with bullpups by any means.
                              I was looking at the Tavor and doing some research. The only benefit I am seeing is room clearing and CQB applications. Trigger is an another issue, shooting from prone is not great, ergonomics, and balance are other issues.
                              I decided to go with an SBRd, LMT 10.5. upper. It allows me switch out to M-4 or 20″ barreled uppers for other applications and still use the same weapons system.

                            • #102307
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                Here is some info I have come across regarding Tavor trigger, YMMV.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dizuRNL0HIs

                                Published on Jun 9, 2013

                                Please check out: http://www.thebangswitch.com
                                The Tavor has a heavy trigger, that’s a known fact. However, what many of you may not know is that you can reduce the Tavors trigger pull by 4-5lbs by removing a single spring. There’s no need to make permanent modifications to your rifle, it’s easily reversible and does not damage your rifle, but will make your trigger pull 7-8lbs instantly. Check out this easy Tavor trigger job.

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KYs3BrnzmU

                                Published on Mar 13, 2014

                                At the 2014 Big 3 East Event Mac from Military Arms Channel and Hank Strange take a Quick look at the Giessele Trigger for the IWI Tavor and compare it to the “Mac Engineering” Modified Trigger pack in this exclusive video.

                              • #102308
                                Max
                                Keymaster

                                  Helen uses the Tavor. The plastic panel that closes off the off hand side ejection port is the item that allows some gas leakage. We never used it as we installed a metal panel with a QD sling mount. This panel does not leak any gas.

                                  The stock Tavor trigger pull is long and gritty. The reset is short and very crisp. Geislle and Timney have replacement trigger packs supposedly improving the initial pull weight, feel and travel. A little salty at ~$350.

                                  I have the Rogue BP chassis for the M1A. No gas issues, trigger pull is acceptably heavy and the reset short and crisp. The chassis uses its own cross bolt style safety above and outside of the trigger guard. It is heavier than the Scout M1A.

                                  In both cases, the rifle “feels” lighter than its non-BP counterparts, as a majority of the weight has been brought back to the shoulder, back away from the support hand. Reduced moment of inertia is significant.

                                  Both rifles with 18″ barrels are ~26.5″ in OAL, without needing a folding stock, making vehicle transport and usage within the confines of a vehicle easier than their non-BP counterparts.

                                  The only BP receiver improvement that I would like to see is a downward ejection port, eliminating the ejected case issue when firing from the weak side.

                                  Joe

                                • #102309
                                  Max
                                  Keymaster

                                    I love the idea of a bullpup, but being a lefty precluded that for years. Now there are reversible systems, but like some have said, the availability of parts when SHTF is an issue. As to a bottom eject bullpup, I’ve looked at similar things like the PS90, which is bottom eject and the problem is it puts brass right where you’re about to walk. In the woods, no problem, but in a concrete building, you’re on your back.

                                    I shoot almost all my guns left handed with brass ejecting right in front of my face and have never had a problem, but with a bullpup, ejecting into my face sounds like no fun. I’ll stick with my standard AR’s.

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