Technicals!

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    • #128592
      dave37
      Participant

        So, if you were going to build an improvised fighting vehicle, as seen in third world conflicts worldwide, what features would you want on yours?

        Base vehicle?
        Weapons?
        Vehicle modifications?

        I’ll go first:
        Toyota Tacoma with Ma Deuce in the back. Pushbar and winch on the front. Brake lights and running lights disabled and instrument panel covered up so you can run blacked out with night vision. Rhodesian Brushstroke rattlecan paint job. Chrome plated testicles hanging from rear bumper hitch.

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      • #128594
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Ferret Scout car, preferably the MK4.

        • #128596
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            Of course old school Vietnam style gun trucks are a better inspiration for me rather than this younger generations feeble technicals! ;-)

            Check out the rear two stations to augment the four M2 Brownings.

          • #128600
            hellokitty
            Participant

              Chrome plated testicles hanging from rear bumper hitch.

              ^^THIS^^

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            • #128606
              gatlinggun
              Participant

                This.

                Its apparently USSOCOM in A-Stan 2002.

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              • #128629
                Roadkill
                Participant

                  This seems to be a tongue and cheek post. Here’s something I did that you guys might find of interest. I bought a Warn winch for doing tree work. That’s my business now after 30 years of firefighting. I mention my former life because, it gave me this idea. The winch I bought had a 2” receiver mount. Since I have a Reese hitch and I pull mostly from the rear I thought it would work out great. Because this thing is moveable instead of hard wiring it in I made a 20’ extension cable that I run off from the battery and a solenoid under the hood. I also welded up a receiver on the front bumper so I can run it out front, also plugged in under the hood. In the FD on our rescue rigs we had receivers welded to the frame mid mount both sides. I haven’t done the side receivers yet. This was for rescue pulling but in off road it can be used for traversing and side pulling where needed. I also mounted a receiver in the front of my 16’ trailer. The extension cable reaches. The nice thing about this system is you don’t run with it mounted. If it’s mounted out front and you crash front, winch is out of commission, same rear, if your running rear and take a hit. Keep it stowed until you need it. All it takes is the Reese hitch pin and plug it in. Good to go.

                • #128633
                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                  Moderator

                    The winch I bought had a 2” receiver mount.

                    The use of receiver mounts is definitely the way to go! :good:

                    They offer far more flexibility to varying scenarios.

                    Besides Roadkills mentioned crash protection, the ability to store winch when not needed minimizing wear and tear by corrosion and debris as well.

                  • #128679
                    Hessian
                    Participant

                      Depends on the AO and mission.

                      Going in the opposite direction of Joe (tho nice selections)…

                      Polaris Rzr.

                    • #128704
                      Max
                      Keymaster

                        The thing about technicals is that you can only really get away with unarmored if you can get standoff range with the mounted MGs. Thus you want to be out at range beyond the accurate range of whoever you are engaging. This works well in the desert. Preferably if you are able to take a hull-down position, just exposing the MG mounted on top.

                        If you can’t do that, then your technical is not survivable in close combat. This is why some of the Brit Army vehicles like Jackals work well in the desert, with the open top infrastructure. This is why Hummers became armored, so they could be more survivable in close combat.

                        My experience as a contractor in Iraq was that you need armor for the kind of close combat often experienced, including road ambush. In the early days we would up-armor our own pickup trucks, similar to the way hummers were ‘hobo-armored’ before the fully armored versions started coming in. Put armored side panels in the doors, cut up to shoulder height. Make an armored box in the back to protect the pintle mounted gun.

                        IEDs may or may not be an issue. Guys who used to run with doors off soft vehicles soon learned that there was no protection there at all.

                        You can do the sort of pickup we have used at Texas classes, where you have a bench center mounted in the back to carry troops, who can rapidly deploy. The key here is to use it as a way to bring QRF or vehicle patrol, but as soon as you take fire the troops deploy out and the vehicle is moved to cover.

                        We also used dump trucks as QRF firepower vehicles. Travelling incognito at the back of a convoy. Guns down but ready to be mounted. For me, this idea came from when an IRA active service unit drive across the border into a permanent border VCP, bunch of PIRA guys in the back of a dump truck. They hosed the place down and assaulted, only one soldier survived by hiding in the deep freeze!

                      • #128713
                        dave37
                        Participant

                          It honestly was meant to be a serious post, talk of truck nuts notwithstanding. This is exactly the kind of idea I was looking for. Thank you Roadkill.

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                        • #128721
                          gatlinggun
                          Participant

                            I have often thought about building an “armored” technical given my machining and welding skills. I seem to remember a vehicle of this sort in one of the Stallone “Expendables” movies. It had dual axles in the rear and a turret mounted MG. I believe the chassis was eastern block or Russian in origin.

                            Max is correct. To ensure more than one minute of survivability in close or urban terrain the vehicle has to be armored. This could quickly devolve into building armored cars or some type of APC with the cost of such a vehicle going up and up and up.

                            So the question is what is the mission? What is expected of the vehicle? What is the area of operations? I don’t think there is one perfect design that will cover all expectations. That said it is still interesting to think about, and I have a shop where something could be built.

                          • #128740
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              It honestly was meant to be a serious post, talk of truck nuts notwithstanding.

                              I will point out I know people with military armored vehicles. A good condition wheeled armored vehicles with run flat tires can be had around $25,000. Considering the price of new vehicles in today’s market I do not believe that is beyond all of our members finances. Whether you believe it is worth it to you is the real question? For many it will come down to it nothing ever happens it would be a waste, however if needed what would it’s value be?

                              Many are unfamiliar with the armored vehicles market.

                              Besides our wheeled armored vehicles mentiond, I’ve seen a Chieftain Main Battle Tank for $250,000 with the breech ring available pending NFA paperwork, 30 training rounds available. A large selection of spare parts including two rebuilt spare engines.

                              Many tracked APC’s can be had starting at $50,000.

                              I have often thought about building an “armored” technical given my machining and welding skills.

                              Those who can work on heavy equipment can find many project armored vehicles quite reasonable if you can pick them up without assistance. Shipping can be prohibitive.

                              Rebuilding an armored vehicle could be a great way to save money for people with the skills. Particularly those who can improvise and don’t care about restoration to original standard.

                              A reasonable condition military trucks around $5,000 would be an excellent base vehicle for the guntruck. Obviously the dump truck is an excellent starter package for a relatively low profile look.

                              Finally the tactics and training to utilize them to the maximum potential may not be as apparent as most think.

                            • #128763
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                Another consideration Max mentioned is not to underestimate the available knowledge regarding IED’s.

                                Much like night vision doesn’t make you own the night, armored vehicles are not invulnerable.

                                Can’t tell you how many untrained people I’ve seen walking around wearing NODs as though they were now invisible.

                                As well as even trained people drawn to armor while under fire as though armor was their salvation. This is not always true and armor can become bullet magnets that I do not want to be near without reason.

                              • #128777
                                wheelsee
                                Participant

                                  use farm equipment or heavy construction equipment – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlZh9-NQEyI

                                • #128813
                                  dave37
                                  Participant

                                    My thought was that it wouldn’t really be a combat vehicle per se, but, as Max says, used like in the late lamented mobility class. Basically, it could carry a team to the area at high speeds and in relative comfort, drop them off, and then the gun mounted on the pickup could provide supporting fire while the team maneuvered. Hopefully the 50 cal would outrange most other weapons so that the truck could stand off out of danger.

                                    I am curious how you would armor up a civilian passenger vehicle. Is the sheet metal of the body even thick enough to weld onto, or would you have drill into the door frames and bolt the plates on? And how much armor can you even add before the vehicle is too heavy to move, given that you’ve got 4-6 adult males, a pintle mount and machine gun, ammo etc all packed in too?

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                                  • #128822
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      The biggest concern for homemade armored vehicles is weight.

                                      Most light civilians vehicles will not support the weight of steel armor and even with significant reinforcements the axels, drivetrain, etc…will not be able to handle the weight reliably for long.

                                      Another consideration is cost, the types of steel that can reliably stop a variety of commonly available ammunition is not cheap even at scrap prices. Just because it’s thick and heavy doesn’t equate to bullet resistance.

                                      To reduce weight various composites are available, but now you are getting even more expensive. For instance the ShotStop armor Max sells, that company can build armor panels to custom shapes and sizes. Consider the price of just rifle plates that are part of production runs, hence reasonably priced. Obviously special order plates will be significantly more expensive.

                                      Additionally consider the HMMV’s used for decades by the military. They are a heavy duty vehicle, then we start booting armor kits on them and they become heavy, slow, and maintenance nightmares!

                                      So to build a “bubba special” armored vehicles that is reliable will require a very powerful and heavy duty base vehicle to start.

                                      If you investigate costs vs your skills and equipment to handle such heavy steel during assembly it becomes a daunting task to the typical person. It’s not impossible, but unless you have such support to begin with, just obtaining the supporting infrastructure to build such a vehicle will not be cheap.

                                      Now let’s also consider the infrastructure needed to maintain and use this vehicle. Good fuel economy will be maybe in the 3-5 mpg range. How many thousands of gallons of appropriate fuel can you store?

                                      This is just the basic thoughts.

                                      None of these are issues are insurmountable, but they need to be considered.

                                      Those that have not seriously considered such an endeavor commonly laugh when I mention say a Saracen APC in good condition for around $50,000, but when you consider the costs to replicate such capability it isn’t out of line.

                                      Are you a experienced fabricator with needed tools already? Then again we can consider surplus armor projects to save time and costs. Remember even this route is not inexpensive since the value of say 11 tons of the Saracen APC’s weight is not cheap.

                                    • #129218
                                      Anonymous
                                      Inactive

                                        Early armored vehicles in Syria were either smaller ones built off of Toyota Hiluxes or heavier ones built off of tractors. Never rode in one myself because they were relegated to a secondary role once we got IAG Gaurdians from the Americans. The second- and third-timers who had told me the issues with them were heat, fumes, and poor ventilation. The tractor-based ones are really slow, and truck-based ones can only be uparmored so much because of weight. If you can get a purpose-built APC, it’s always better.

                                        As far as technicals in general go, Hilux is the standard, but I have also seen them built with mini trucks, a Ford F-350 and even a motorbike, with folding legs for “stability”.

                                        Now behold the technical of our future cyberboogaloo:

                                      • #129541
                                        AWS18
                                        Participant

                                          This U.K. company sells quite a few interesting vehicles ranging from APC’s for 20-30k to full on Chieftains for around 60k and up.

                                          It would be pretty cool to get hands on a FV110 or 103 one day.

                                          Military Vehicles For Sale

                                          • This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by AWS18.

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                                        • #129546
                                          BradyBunch
                                          Participant

                                            That Tesla looks like a towable emplacement!

                                          • #129560
                                            DuaneH
                                            Participant

                                              In all seriousness most technicals I have seen were white Toyotas.

                                            • #130191
                                              Sebastian Bosek
                                              Participant

                                                A toyota with a recoiless rifle or a ZSU-23-2 in the back.

                                                Although Franklin Armory also had a pretty tricked out dune buggy at SHOT Show last year.

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