TAKE COVER! – Yes, Really.

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    • #59148
      D Close
      Moderator

        Posted by Max Velocity on his blog 04MAR13

        I have been making some observations lately that have prompted me to write this post. It’s important that I try and get my thoughts across accurately because with all subjective tactical commentary there is a danger of being misunderstood, or alternatively egos and ingrained ideas prevent proper understanding of the point being made.
        I have commented before about two related topics:
        1) The prevalence of CQB and ‘tacticool’ firearms training, often passing for real tactical training.
        2) The effect this has on what I see out there masquerading as tactics.
        So, I was recently watching two episodes of ‘Doomsday Preppers’ (yea, yea, I know). I noticed a couple of things which just backed up other observations and previous comments: Among the preppers shown, there were a couple of groups that had obviously made an effort to get tactical firearms and equipment and do some training. I applaud their efforts. I noticed the following:
        1) A focus on standing firing positions shooting at close ranges combined with doing that as they walked towards the targets.
        2) An odd technique of pairs movement back to back, doing the ubiquitous ‘half-crouch” with the rear person walking backwards. This was tied in with weapons always at the ‘ready up’ position, eyes to the sights, making for an awkward patrol action.
        Comments on 1): this must come from Police style CQB training where although the technique is practiced on an open range, it is designed for movement down corridors and similar in a building/structure. This will allow a standing firing position and engagement of targets while moving towards them down the corridor. Fine for raiding a crack house and ventilating some stoned meth addict grabbing for a revolver. (Yes, I generalize and use sarcasm, but I hope you get my point?)
        Well, most preppers are not preparing for SWAT operations (with the exception of defense from such operations!) You may want to practice some room clearance and also MOUT, but not police style arrest operations in buildings. But that aside, the point I am getting to is that such training will get you killed out in the open or in the woods.
        Standing firing at targets and also moving towards them while firing has its place. You do need to practice your shooting. And it looks cool and is easy….But doing so is the equivalent of boxing training while punching a bag. The bag does not punch back, and you need to practice to move and cover. You would be better off once you have moved beyond shooting from the standing position, with practicing an initial return of fire followed by a move to cover, whether that be a kneeling or prone position If you remain standing then you are open to incoming fire from any shooter out there. Because you are not doing CQB in a building the sharpshooter in depth with an optic will put a round through you while you are doing your tacticool shoot/walk towards the target 25 meters to your front.
        But getting in the prone is hard work right? It makes my tacticool gear dirty, right? Plus I’m 100 pounds overweight with my belly hanging out from under my plate carrier, and that is hard work. Its way easier to be all cool and ventilate the paper at 15 yards, standing upright in the open. Right?
        If you get in a fight out there in the woods or fields, that is no different from combat. In combat, you need to get into cover and return fire. Depending on the circumstances/range of the engagement and how you train you may want to return an initial fire, perhaps a controlled pair (double tap) and then take cover. But unless the enemy is at CQB ranges that will simply leave you standing there for an instant while the enemy, who had the drop on you, lines up his sights. The best reaction when the enemy is not stood right in front of you and fire is suddenly incoming, is to bomb burst into cover. A way to remember this is:
        dash-down-crawl-observe-sights-fire
        or
        dash(short distance)-down-crawl (into cover)-observe (locate the enemy)-sights-fire
        I don’t know whether it comes from too much exposure to police tactics, more of the same via Hollywood, or even the cultural tradition of the cowboy gunfighters standing at opposite ends of the street, but you need to seriously think about “TAKING COVER!” Remaining standing could seriously impact your health. Even when fire and moving over open ground, think about taking a kneeling or prone position as you are firing and covering your buddy. Kneeling is faster, prone is safer.
        In any situation where you have incoming fire that is not yet suppressed you will need to get as low as possible or behind cover or a combination of the two. You may only have an option to crawl. The whole standing walking thing is for situations where you over-match the enemy so can afford to remain standing as you walk forwards firing. Not in an equal firefight you won’t!
        [You may also want to note that Soviet tactics to train conscripts at the basic level were to dismount from their APCs short of the enemy trenches and advance at a jog firing the AK from the hip. That is basic tactics 101 for a poorly trained conscript army. Unless the occupants of the trenches are suppressed and taking cover in their trenches, they will easily target and kill those advancing infantry. Bear in mind that this evolved from the Second World War where only one in ten (or so) had a rifle and they were trained to link arms and charge enemy machine gun positions picking up the rifles of their downed comrades as they went. Does not sound like a recipe for survival to me?]
        Comments on 2): It has been long known among professional infantrymen, from experiences spanning from the streets of Northern Ireland thru the Balkans to the current wars in the Middle East, that walking backwards on patrol is not done. You will trip and fall. You also need to modify the way you carry your weapon. You cannot carry it ‘ready up’ with eyes to the sights at all times. You have to carry it in a patrol position, like the low ready or a modification. If you suspect imminent danger/contact then you will increase your posture up to a full ready up position, in the shoulder with eyes to the sights (both eyes open). But you have to be aware of tunnel vision, so when patrolling it is better to be alert and looking around, with the rifle ready to bring up and engage if enemy is seen.
        Frankly, my opinion on the back to back half-crouch movement I saw on those shows is similar to my thoughts on having those on the right side of a file carry their weapons left handed: its f**king stupid. Its an example of someone without enough supervision being allowed to implement stuff because it seemed like a good idea. “Yea, lets be super tacticool and have the rear of the pair walk around backwards, that way our six is always covered right?” (As the guy falls flat on his ass). “Yea, lets have the weapons facing out to the right that way they are better able to engage the enemy (as the guys on the right have no training to use their weapons their left hands, thus making for a cluster all round).
        If you are patrolling in pairs, then use a single file formation (or whatever works for the situation) and the rear guy routinely turns around and scans to the rear. If you really need to have someone walking backwards, you need to have another person with their hands on their shoulder guiding them back. That is done for the baton gunner in a civil disorder situation when the team has to make an exit and the baton gunner covers the crowd while walking backwards, led by the patrol leader to prevent him falling – in that situation there will be bricks and debris and other stuff thrown by the crowd laying on the ground, to trip him. Similar hazards in the woods.
        Anyone with any experience on operations knows that you don’t walk around with your weapons at the ‘ready up’ position at all times. You will do if you expect imminent contact. But that is why some of these virus-like techniques get in, because they can be hard to argue with if you don’t know any better- who can argue with ‘being more ready’ by having the weapon up and ready to go at all times? That’s the problem.
        Next time I watch Doomsday Preppers, I want them to have read ‘Contact! A Tactical Manual for Post Collapse Survival’ and I want to see them taking fire positions in cover, moving with covering fire, staying low and using the ground.

      • #59149
        Corvette
        Participant

          This is one of my favorite posts of Max’s.

          Eminent common sense the lack of which drove me away from tacticool training when I watched Chris Costa’s hilarious training tapes and all sorts of red flags went up.

          Max summarizes it in a way I could not but this is why it almost seems the tacticool “community” is trained by charlartans.

        • #59150
          DuaneH
          Participant

            I don’t know I would say they are charlatans. I would definitely say that their perspective is limited.

            There is a lot of good stuff taught at these schools. As long as it is kept in perspective.

            One thing: It wasn’t until recently that schools like Max’s et al have popped up. There weren’t too many of them five years ago.

          • #59151
            Corvette
            Participant

              Duane, I know Charlatans is a strong word that perhaps overstates it.
              but I want to word it strongly on purpose.

              yes you can learn things at those other schools especially if you have some experience that gives you perspective going in.

              For example if you or I went it would not hurt us but be a fun exposure to something different and marginally useful.

              What really worries me though…. is good regular guys who know nothing and want to learn , bring their hard earned money and pay an astronomical fee (if u include ammo costs) and then get taught a PoU that simply does not apply to them and engenders habits that would get them killed. :wacko:

              Its really sad…

            • #59152
              Andrew
              Participant

                The original post pretty much describes my concern with IDPA matches. While I love the trigger time, my border leo time, both on the river and in populated areas, makes me hesitant to charge 5 or 6, supposedly hostile, targets.

                Living where I do now, desert, as opposed to the almost jungle environment along the lower Rio Grande has caused me to do some major revisions to what I did went I was working.

              • #59153
                Chris
                Moderator

                  I will say that courses on the square range do help already experienced shooters learn to drive their weapons better. I wouldn’t be so quick to call Costa or some of the other guys laughable per say but they really cover a limited spectrum of a three dimensional environment. To take what one learns from these and go to something like CRCD courses is a natural progression for skill development. My two cents here, and frankly I think any training is good training as long as no bad habits develop.

                • #59154
                  Andrew
                  Participant

                    20 plus years, qualifying on the square range made me a decent handgun shooter, but left me woefully unprepared for something like IDPA.

                    Also much of the other training, like clearing houses has you start with a weapon in your hand. In neither the Border or Customs Patrols was there ever any training in who to respond to meeting engagements or ambushes.

                    I have had to learn that on my own and have a long way to go.

                  • #59155
                    Corvette
                    Participant

                      Andrew, I hope to meet you at class sometime :yes:

                      F..

                    • #59156
                      Andrew
                      Participant

                        Would love to go, but ya’ll would probably have to take the show on the road.

                        Besides, my mind thinks it is still 20 something, but the ol’ body knows better. Need more of that PT stuff ya keep mentioning. It has motivated me though so you are making an impact!

                      • #59157
                        Corvette
                        Participant

                          Would love to go, but ya’ll would probably have to take the show on the road.

                          Besides, my mind thinks it is still 20 something, but the ol’ body knows better. Need more of that PT stuff ya keep mentioning. It has motivated me though so you are making an impact!

                          About PT he took me a year but I bounced back into decent shape w/ careful methodical workouts. alternating sensible iron pumping with running/swimming.

                          Still a little overweight but nothing hurts after a CRCD weekend now :)

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