Steel Cased Ammo

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    • #101311
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

        I understand that the use of steel cased ammo is due to how cheap it is. But it can cause you all kinds of issues.

        Biggest thing we see is rifle malfunctions due to steel cased ammo. And the biggest one is stuck cases and those can’t be fixed immediately. Taking the time to fix those problems takes training time away from you and from the other students.

        You are paying for the training and so are your fellow students. Why do something that takes away from that?

        The other issues is the premature wear on your rifle with the use of it. It will wear your extractor faster. The reason why is the AR platform was designed for brass cased ammo. Brass is softer and is more malleable.

        If you are using Russian ammo another issue may be faster barrel wear. This is due to the type of material they use in the manufacture of the bullets. I have read other places that people have not had that issue. More power to them. I wouldn’t take the risk.

        While we don’t see as much steel cased ammo as we used to, we still have people coming through training using it. It hasn’t been banned for use, we highly discourage it.

        And we have seen issues with cheap brass cased ammo. Blown primers and stuck cases.

        Do your research before you buy ammo to either store or for class use.

        FILO
        Signal Out, Can You Identify
        Je ne regrette rien
        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

      • #101312
        Aerohawk
        Participant

          Buying cheap always comes back to bite you in the ass, doesn’t matter if it’s ammo or guns. Buy quality the first time and you will always be happier.

        • #101313
          frostysilverback
          Participant

            These guys did a fairly thourogh comparative test on steel cased ammo vs. brass cased ammo.
            http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

          • #101314
            texas
            Participant

              I have had good luck with both Federal and Privi Partizan (PPU) in both my 5.56 and 7.62 rifles.

              I will run Steel in a AK (it is designed for it). Then again since taking a few MVT classes I am not doing a lot of AK shooting anymore, I am fully convert to the AR platform now… B-)

              Any other good recommendations on quality ammo?

            • #101315
              texas
              Participant

                That was a great article frostysilverback. Very interesting data and looks well documented.

                I think it is basically evidence to what First Sergeant was saying about additional wear from the steel cased stuff. Though that is more a property of the bullet construction. I would be interested in if the steel cased rounds stuff used “traditional” bullets if things might improve on the barrel wear side.

                Though it is hard to argue with federal being 100% reliable.

              • #101316
                Robert
                Participant

                  We shot ten K plus of steel case in AK’s yearly but I don’t think I’d run it in an AR- too finicky.

                  Stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime- that’s the way a lot of folks act on these sorts of things. They will spend the money on training, then show up unprepared for getting 110% out of the training. Either because they weren’t prepared physically, or they were constantly working on their rifle when they should have been learning, etc.

                  When we try to be cheaparses too much, it often times hinders getting the most out of training.

                  Your money put into ammo and training is an INVESTMENT. You are investing in your SKILL AT ARMS.

                  I don’t worry about the guy that has 20K rounds of ammo in his closet and never trains (he’s just going to resupply looters that kill him). I worry about the guy that USES thousands of rounds of ammo developing SKILL AT ARMS.

                • #101317
                  Sam Brady
                  Participant

                    WHAT ROBERT SAID!
                    Two things I have seen constantly over the past 30 or so years training at various venues. First students will spend a lot of money on a firearm, travel and lodging. Then they buy cheap ammo which causes their weapon to malfunction. Besides loosing class time and focus, this leads to a loss of confidence in the weapon.
                    Second, they will show up with a nylon bag type holster for at 500-1000 dollar pistol. Same for some of the gear associated with the rifle.

                  • #101318
                    First Sergeant
                    Moderator

                      These guys did a fairly thourogh comparative test on steel cased ammo vs. brass cased ammo.

                      Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo – An Epic Torture Test

                      Thanks for that. I had read it when it first came out, and when I wrote this post I tried to find it. My google fu was week. ;-)

                      FILO
                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                      Je ne regrette rien
                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                    • #101319
                      ellobo
                      Participant

                        It’s a shame the AR is so finicky. I’d like to see an AR that can handle steel ammo. Let’s say things go south and you come across the guy with 20k of stored ammo, with today’s prices it’s most likely going to be steel. Damn I had such high hopes for my new AR, Glad I have a Ak chambered in 556. Joking, the ar is the best and we should only shoot brass.

                      • #101320
                        Badger
                        Participant

                          Here’s one more vote for using brass on AR’s. Steel caused some delay in our Heat 1 class. We had a number of stuck cases and then ripped the rims off trying to extract them. Out comes the rod and hammer. Also, my lancer mags didn’t do well with wolf polyformance. It’s almost like the rounds would seize together in the heat, causing a lot of friction and made it really hard to insert a mag on a closed bolt. It’s brass for me from now on.

                        • #101321
                          wheelsee
                          Participant

                            There’s a reason why you keep hearing Max and Scott talking about brass only for the AR…….

                          • #101322
                            Robert
                            Participant

                              Here’s one more vote for using brass on AR’s. Steel caused some delay in our Heat 1 class. We had a number of stuck cases and then ripped the rims off trying to extract them. Out comes the rod and hammer. Also, my lancer mags didn’t do well with wolf polyformance. It’s almost like the rounds would seize together in the heat, causing a lot of friction and made it really hard to insert a mag on a closed bolt. It’s brass for me from now on.

                              These are the major malfunctions I used to have in my first two AR’s (before steel case) and they are deal breakers. I’ll do whatever the hell I can to avoid those. I’ve been buying Fiochi, IMI on sale at SGAmmo. It isn’t a helluva lot more than steel.

                            • #101323
                              ffhounddog
                              Participant

                                My Colts, Troy, Armalites, and LWRCi run Steel just fine. I am in the 10’s of thousands of that ammo. Dang I was running steel in the class I was in and that ammo had been rained on.

                                I guess I am a outlier.

                              • #101324
                                First Sergeant
                                Moderator

                                  My Colts, Troy, Armalites, and LWRCi run Steel just fine. I am in the 10’s of thousands of that ammo. Dang I was running steel in the class I was in and that ammo had been rained on.

                                  I guess I am a outlier.

                                  I hear that a lot.

                                  When your stuff fails it will be when you least expect it and when it is the worst time.

                                  We see this with steel all the damn time but ya’ll keep doing what you’re doing. Pay no attention to us. We have no damn idea what we are doing or talking about.

                                  FILO
                                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                  Je ne regrette rien
                                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                • #101325
                                  Virgil Kane
                                  Participant

                                    There is no place for steel cased ammo in a free society.

                                    On my first AR, a Bushmaster, I broke the extractor within 100 rounds of use with steel cased ammo. That was a good first lesson on the AR15.

                                  • #101326
                                    trailman
                                    Participant

                                      I’ll throw this out. I have wolf poly and some of the military classic. I shoot it at home in the yard and probably have about 1500 rounds on hand. Some of you have seen my rifle the painted one. Spikes upper and PSA lower, my wifes has the reverse.

                                      Long story short is that I went to the range last week to check zeros on both guns and used the wolf 62 grain ammo. MY gun worked fine, the wifes with the PSA upper, jammed, FTF, double feed etc. Checked mags everything. Took it home and tried one mag of wolf then PMC brass through it. PMC ran fine, what I did notice is that the Wolf seemed noticeably under powered compared to to PMC. That and a combination that the wifes gun is more of a safe queen with less usage on the buffer spring I don’t think it was cycling back enough.

                                    • #101327
                                      RobRoy
                                      Participant

                                        Just looking at an AK or SKS bolt versus the one on a Stoner design it makes sense about brass versus steel and how the AR is made for brass.

                                      • #101328
                                        Virgil Kane
                                        Participant

                                          Just looking at an AK or SKS bolt versus the one on a Stoner design it makes sense about brass versus steel and how the AR is made for brass.

                                          Look at the case geometry too.

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