Some Complimentary CQB Videos And Thoughts For Discussion

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    • #95962
      JustARandomGuy
      Participant

        So, brief preface; I’m not a CQB instructor (see avatar… ;-) ).
        Further, I have no idea who some of the instructors in the video are, their rep in the shooting community, nor any financial interest in posting such- just clips that I found that I thought were applicable to this discussion.

        After reading the MVT article, as well as the discussion/shitsturm elsewhere, I got curious and hit up youtube to see if I could find some more footage of interest.
        There’s so much bullshit on the ‘tube…. dear lord…
        But as follows are some (what appear to me) good videos of CQB training- these pretty much run the gamut from techniques similar to the MVT article, to bang-and-clear stuff. I have a few thoughts on each that I’ll add- I suppose if it turns out any of them are worth anything, they could also be shared elsewhere- maybe they’ll help put out some fires…
        Otherwise, this is just purely for further discussion, while we’re on this topic…

        Onward;

        The originally posted video from the MVt article- added in again for reference;

        US Army 10th Mtn. shoot house
        Seems like a hybrid of standard breach and clear (the guy yells “flash!” before entry), as well as techniques from the article.
        Around 1:10 entry, maybe point guy would have got shot?
        Around 3:00 entry, they seem to switch to techniques similar to the article for hallway/corner clearance.

        Per the article:
        “…Sweeping the room with your muzzle as you ‘slice the pie’ is a rapid movement only taking as long as you need to scan and assess, shooting as necessary…There are alternatives about how to cross the open doorway – only expose yourself if cornering correctly with muzzle up, and not flagged into the room.”

        The first video below from MSM/ Ronin (oh dear God- the dreaded Monkey! :P) I thought was a pretty good demo of this.
        See point about being aware of your muzzle when entering a room. While it seems the diagram techniques in the article significantly minimize this, it’s still something to be aware of. Ronin also had an interesting few words about hugging walls. The second video is a great demo of a fellow sticking his muzzle through every doorway in a trailer shoot-house.


        Classic oooooold school SEAL room entry- ultra basic stack and clear, no bangers. The following videos also focus on explosive/grenade stack-and-clear entry methods, but I feel like they are relevant to the discussion, so all (well…some of) the available techniques can be compared.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNj3wcOAy8A

        VTac LEO explosive breach- not a whole ton of value once they start blathering on about the 5.11 shit (might as well turn it off at that point), but a little crossover with the above SEAL video with them pulling the cover man back, as well as maybe the two-man high/low team, just with the #1 guy placing the charge. Or maybe not…?

        US Marines and French Airborne running some basic dry run entry drills at AMERCAL. Scan/asses high/low, rear security, etc. Parts 24 and 25 are all that’s applicable, as posted below;


        US Mil. 2012 semi-annual FTX- basic training on breaching with flashbangs. How to use bangers, basic movement in building, sequence of entry into rooms, so forth and so on.
        >>Question– why is the instructor mentioning about throwing the flashbang short right into the doorway? The video cuts him off before it’s explained.

        A more high speed video of clearing with flashbangs (from Ronin again). I gotta say, they’re a little “operator” for my tastes, but they seem to have a good mindset/attitude towards the whole thing.
        Question– again, at the end one guy mentions throwing the flashbangs to deep into the room. In conjunction with my previous question about this- why?

        Final video- USAF security forces in a shoothouse. Looks like a hybrid of all the major techniques- there’s pie-ing, outside-in clearing, standard stack ‘n clear, etc.
        The beginning of the video looks like a standard breach, they clear the room, two guys move forward and pie the next room (see MVT article) then after they’ve cleared from the door, the next team moves though them and clears the rest of the room.
        And so forth. Good? Bad?

      • #95963
        JustARandomGuy
        Participant

          Placeholder

        • #95964
          Max
          Keymaster

            OK, I appreciate the time it took to find these videos. I have not been able to look at them, and probably won’t.
            I don’t see what the issue is? My article was widely well received and shared hugely. I don’t see what the issue is for debate?
            There is an element out there who will not listen and will attack this, but there are reasons for that and I will put a post together about it after the weekend.
            I’m not going to let some negativity by the ‘police -style low threat room entry crowd’ and their industry fan boys derail the topic of real combat proven urban tactics.
            It was interesting when Chris commented to me that although battledrill drill 6 (enter and clear a room) is still largely in force across the army, in combat it looks more like what I have described, when there are actually barricaded enemy inside rooms.
            Sn I am not at a point where I want to debate the veracity of these tactics – other than to describe, as I said I will, why some will not accept them and why it is in their interest to try and quosh this kind of debate. It took me a while to get to the point of posting this and I have been avoiding CQB.
            However, now I have done so, with my justifications, I’m not going to continue to justify and explain it.

          • #95965
            Corvette
            Participant

              Here is one I like. They are shooting very close to their team mates because they are where they are supposed to be:
              <iframe width=”560″ height=”315″ src=”http://www.youtube.com/embed/dRRMFVZXBls?rel=0&#8243; frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen></iframe>

              Fooking embed. If somebody can fix I would be grateful.

            • #95966
              Corvette
              Participant

                Lol you know what’s fun? Stairwells. and basements.

              • #95967
                JustARandomGuy
                Participant

                  Hmm…
                  I think there is a little fog of the internet in play here. Also, maybe I should have waited until some of the heat died down to post these… :unsure:
                  Either way, I see that the intent this post was made with has been misunderstood, so let me attempt to clarify;

                  1)I labeled this “complimentary” as it was meant to either add value, or support, or show different versions of a lot of what’s discussed in the original MVT CQB article. I also added “for discussion” on the end to point out that I did not consider any of it set in stone. I’ve re-read what I wrote here about a hundred times so far. I don’t see how it could be seen as arguing about OR detracting from the points in the original MVT article.

                  Further, as mentioned in my original post, there are some things that, I think, demonstrated some of the ideas nicely- *maybe not the whole video*… but *certain* portions and concepts.
                  For example, the first Ronin video, per the portion of the article I quoted, or the 10th Mtn. shoothouse, which at the 3:00 mark seemed to have a nice top-down view of a 4-man version of the 2-man clearing concept shown in the originally posted (re-posted at top here) video, and so forth.

                  2)And yes, I did want an opinion on what was there- per my notes, am I seeing this right? Is there any value to the footage? Is what is shown right, wrong, etc.? I know there are folks here with current GWOT experience. Three of them happen to be instructors. What better place to get an opinion or have a discussion about this? Right?

                  Aaron’s mentioning stairwells and basements. I’m assuming this means some aspect is being overlooked in the above footage. Tell me more! :good:

                • #95968
                  Max
                  Keymaster

                    as well as the discussion/shitsturm

                    Because: the ‘shitstorm’ will always be there among a certain group. I think you made too much of it. The tactical/combat clearance tactics are there. Only muppets fight it, and they always will. I simply don’t think it needed much more elaboration: I have posted today that follow up post the I promised: ‘CQB: The Myth, The Con & The Right Way.

                  • #95969
                    JustARandomGuy
                    Participant

                      I did read the new article today- the second video is really helpful.
                      Some questions I’d picked up on in other videos addressed- actually a bit of what I was looking for input on here as well.

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