Possible Sarin Gas Attack Khan Sheikhoun, Syria

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Home Forums Self-Reliance & Preparedness Chemical, Biological, Nuclear/Radiological Possible Sarin Gas Attack Khan Sheikhoun, Syria

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    • #82627
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        The symptoms described do match for Sarin (GB) exposure.

        What is Sarin:

        Sarin is a man-made chemical warfare agent classified as a nerve agent.

        They are similar to certain kinds of insecticides called organophosphate insecticides in terms of how they work and what kind of harmful effects they cause; however, nerve agents are much more potent than insecticides.

        Sarin originally was developed in 1938 in Germany as an insecticide.

        Sarin is a clear, colorless, and tasteless liquid that has no odor in its pure form. However, Sarin can evaporate into a vapor (gas) and spread into the environment.

        Sarin is also known as GB.

        Sarin presents an immediate, but short-lived, threat due to the relatively fast off gassing.

        The temperature was around 75°F with low relative humidity. Winds in the 10 mph range.

        So did Syrian forces use it?

        We lack sufficient data, rebels, ISIS, and it’s supporters have been able to acquire Syrian Sarin from captured stockpiles in limited amounts.

        So it is certainly possible to create the impression of a Syrian Forces attack.

        I am not sure of what resources are available to conduct an investigation by either US or on our behalf that could be trusted.

        There are many sites talking about the rudimentary decontamination and protection methods by first responders after this attack.

        This is offered as proof that these are false depictions of a Sarin attack.

        While certainly possible, the evidence shown is not proof of any conclusion at this time.

        Without an accurate assessment of the GB deployment time to when these response photos were actually taken makes this just speculation. We can not assume what response time was since we are not talking US 911 response times.

        So at this time we are quite frankly in the dark.

        The US certainly has the capability to get to the truth, but at this time all we know for certain is that many people; including children, died after an event.

        Without supplementary information all other conclusions are supposition based on bias.

      • #82628
        Corvette
        Participant

          It’s entirely possible that the Syrians hit a chemical weapons cache on the bombing run.

        • #82629
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            It’s entirely possible that the Syrians hit a chemical weapons cache on the bombing run.

            The Sarin produced by these types of nation states tends to be very impure and has a very short shelf life due to by products produced, hence it is usually kept in a binary form.

            It would be improbable to mix the separate ingredients by explosive force resulting in Sarin due to the dispersion of ingredients.

            Now with insider information (Syrian Forces) a strike after mixing the precursors is more plausible.

            However leaking disinformation of a high value target (Rebel Forces) where a recent batch of Sarin had been mixed is equally plausible.

            Again we lack needed information to reach a valid conclusion.

          • #82630
            Groundwork
            Participant

              The timing to me makes the event highly suspicious, at least if you go by the supposition that Assad was behind it. Looking at it as a false flag event by unknown opposition laying blame on Assad makes more sense.

              With increasingly higher level Obama minions being revealed for their part in Trumpgate, it’s an awfully convenient time to get President Trump looking at foreign policy issues vice domestic ones.

            • #82631
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                Groundwork, in this situation I have to balance first my role as a CBRN Moderator to provide factual information about the specifics of this type of Event.

                Then my analysis of the the OSINT information currently available giving my Intelligence background.

                Finally to make sure I do not confuse readers as to what are known facts, from commentary, and/or possibilities.

                We must also remember that the majority of Wars the US has fought since “Remember the Maine!” have been based on false information.

                As you have noted there are many possible motives that may not be as they seem.

                I will be monitoring the information available and report facts without any attempts to push agendas that unfortunately far too many sites seem compelled to do.

              • #82632
                HiDesertRat
                Participant

                  It would seem improbable for Assad to attempt any such action that would further alienate his regime. Although Russia and Iran support him, they would in all probability lessen their support. There are so many players, both on the ground and behind the scenes, having the ability to discern real, truthful information is difficult at best. On the other hand, Assads’ father razed Hama to the ground to eradicate any further muslim brotherhood from Syria, many innocent were killed, but that not not deter Assad senior. Junior could have some of that thinking in his blood also. Still, false flag comes up high on the list of probabilities. Disinformation rules the planet currently.

                • #82633
                  dg
                  Participant

                    There are 4 possible options that I can see:

                    1. Assad did this deliberately.
                    2. Assad did this, but it was a mistake (accidental usage, or done without his authorization by someone in his army: by rogue elements or by some careless cretins).
                    3. Someone else did this (a false flag).
                    4. Nobody did this: no WMD use, and/or no dead bodies.

                    My opinion, in terms of the need for the United States to go to war:

                    #1: (“Assad did this”): Impossible. Just like in the previous (bogus) chemical attack a few years ago, Assad is the last person to want to use WMD, knowing that it would lead to a direct NATO attack and his own loss of power and his own death. And, he is not a madman who would do terrible things because he is out of his mind.
                    In other words, this option – which is being shoved down our throats by lamestream media – is simply impossible to be true.

                    #2: “mistakes happen”, “it’s a war”, and – my favorite – “collateral damage” are never an excuse, IMHO.
                    Still, if this is what happened, I fail to see why my family should die in a WW3.

                    #3: A false flag would be the most despicable option.
                    In that case, I believe that the culprits should be assassinated, whoever they are, whichever country they live in, and whatever their job positions are.
                    Still, no cause for attacking Syrian government (if it wasn’t them who killed those epeople) and starting a big war.

                    #4: If this is a staged non-event, the White Helmets and their sponsors should get jail time.
                    Obviously, not a cause for a big war.

                    ————-

                    Am I missing a scenario which justifies a World War 3, death of our loved ones, the end of civilization, and a “nuclear winter” for the few survivors?..

                  • #82634
                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                    Moderator

                      Disinformation rules the planet currently.

                      This is not something new, what has changed is our ability to get more information from numerous sources making successful disinformation much more difficult.

                      Am I missing a scenario which justifies a World War 3, death of our loved ones, the end of civilization, and a “nuclear winter” for the few survivors?

                      First I would point out that even in the unlikely event of a World War, this in itself does not mean a nuclear exchange.

                      The current events in Syria are cause for concern, but beware of the fearmongering by numerous sites out there.

                      Remember many of these same sources were also predicting the “End of Civilization” over the Ebola scare.

                      For whatever reason many of these people are always preaching “Doom and Gloom” about their latest source of attention.

                      For my entire life there has been legitimate concern for an “Event” leading to WWIII, both with and without a exchange of nuclear weapons.

                      This is the reason for my preparations, so that I and those I care about will be prepared for whatever may come.

                      Does this mean I welcome such events?

                      No more so than having insurance means I welcome my house burning down. ;-)

                      Currently there are many situations worldwide that could lead to large scale conflict depending on various reactions of the parties involved.

                      Potential Nuclear Dangers:

                      Consider North Korea, nukes and nuts are a poor combination.

                      Pakistan is nowhere near as stable as a nuclear armed country should be.

                      How stable will France and the UK be if the current immigration continues. An islamic France and UK is a real possibility at some point and to the muslim victor goes the nukes.

                      And this is just some highlights, there are plenty of other hot spots that have potential.

                      Russia stated earlier that it’s support of Syria is not unconditional.

                      I guess we’ll find out we just hit Syria with over fifty Tomahawks, according to initial reports.

                    • #82635
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        We’ll see what evidence is presented regarding this attack as the justification for our TLAM strike on al-Shayrat airbase in Syria.

                        The various lunatics are making a variety of comments across the typical sites.

                        Various theories are presented as fact, but as far as OSINT goes there is insufficient evidence to support any conclusion.

                        From this is the beginning of WWIII (is there a cash prize office pool for this), President Trump has been blackmailed, to the move against US militias is starting? :wacko:

                        Perhaps we should try the Psychic hotline? ;-)

                        There is nothing wrong with speculation when identified as such.

                        So we’ll see, but lets look for facts.

                      • #82636
                        Virgil Kane
                        Participant

                          Slightly off topic, but Joe mentioned UK going Muslim. UK seems closer than France since London has a Muslim mayor and France may elect LePen. Who would have ever thought that, short of military conquest, London would be ruled by a Muslim? That is some scary shit. Knights must be rolling in their graves.

                        • #82637
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            Everyone who has posted thanks for your thoughts, also understand none of my comments are against the particular commenter.

                            They are provided for either additional information or point out a different point of view.

                            As we seek the facts of this situation we must be open to where the evidence takes us.

                            Also there is a possibility we will not be able to confirm what really happened.

                          • #82638
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              After reviewing various material and videos it is reasonable to assume a Nerve Agent (probably Sarin) was deployed in Khan Sheikhoun, Syria.

                              What is not clear at this time; based on OSINT evidence, is who deployed it.

                              Obviously the US government decided it was Assad, but other than a “they said so” the only evidence presented that I’ve found is a depiction of alleged SU-22 flightpath.

                              While somewhat compelling it is not irrevocable truth in itself.

                              The basic Russian explanation is the SU-22 hit a Rebel Sarin storage site.

                              As already stated:

                              The Sarin produced by these types of nation states tends to be very impure and has a very short shelf life due to by products produced, hence it is usually kept in a binary form.

                              It would be improbable to mix the separate ingredients by explosive force resulting in Sarin due to the dispersion of ingredients.

                              Possible alternative:

                              Now with insider information (Syrian Forces) a strike after mixing the precursors is more plausible.

                              …or by blind luck.

                              Possible alternative:

                              However leaking disinformation (to Syrian Forces) of a high value target (Rebel Forces) where a recent batch of Sarin had been mixed is equally plausible.

                              Of course a variation of above would be deploying Sarin by Rebel Forces in the immediate aftermath of a Syrian air attack for propaganda purposes.

                              These alternative possibilities have no hard evidence to support them at this time.

                              We have only the thin circumstantial theory of “Why would Assad risk such a attack at this time?”

                              This is a compelling question, but it isn’t beyond comprehension that a second generation Dictator would do this type of attack.

                              So we are back to the evidence shown is not proof of any conclusion at this time.

                            • #82639
                              Thomas
                              Participant

                                Joe,

                                Some speculative thoughts on the situation.

                                Although we struck a site in Syria, I am not sure the target was actually Syria, Assad, or an ME regime.

                                The tomahawk strike indicated a couple of things: 1) BHO is not the president and his policies are no longer in effect; 2) while the White House is portrayed as chaotic on a daily basis, there is clear decision making taking place; 3) based on the visit of XI and the administration’s comments that China should get their NKDP pet back on a leash, the timing was not coincidental.

                                As one of my friends wrote today, I lament the loss of the missiles.

                              • #82640
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  …the visit of XI and the administration’s comments that China should get their NKDP pet back on a leash, the timing was not coincidental.

                                  …this message had far more reach than Assad. The timing during dinner with Chinese President Xi Jinping is also not happenstance.

                                  B-)

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