Night Vision

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    • #105930
      Max
      Keymaster

        Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

        I hadn’t seen a night vision (or thermal imaging) thread here ye; and wanted share an alternative for “cheap” night vision.

        If you’re like me, I couldn’t afford a $3000 3rd gen unit but didn’t wanted to go for a 1 gen. So I decided after reading MV’s article on night vision to take his recommendation and sell a couple of my extra firearms (which was 1 extra AR and a mossberg 500 flex) to put towards a night vision fund.

        Long story short, I found a way to get 3rd gen night vision for about $1275. There is a little more risk going this route than buying a brand new PVS-14, so keep that in mind. I came across that other people were building their own, purchasing the tube and the housing separately.

        ABNightVision sells a complete quality monocular housing for $675, this is very similar to the PVS-14 and accepts all the PVS-14 accessories. It’s the NVM-2AA.

        All you need to do is find a used ANVIS style MX-10160 tube and either put it together yourself or send it to AB Night Vision and they will assemble and nitrogen purge for $50. Finding a tube I hear can be tricky, ebay is one source, but can be risky I hear. I personally started contacting Night Vision retailers and asking what they had. At the time Optics HQ had two used (with slight/moderate blem/damage) 3rd gen tubes for $600 a piece. So my cost came in around $1275 plus the purging cost, which is half the price of something new. From my research used tubes should run anywhere from $500-$1200. The sales from my extra rifles basically covered the cost of the night vision.

        Links below.(not working?) Search ABNightVision and also youtube “Night Vision NVG Overview”.

        http://abnightvision.com/NVM2AA.html”>

        Just thought I’d throw this info out there. Feel free to discuss other NV related topics.

      • #105931
        Corvette
        Participant

          Thanks, nice post. I am still trying to give myself the kick in the arse on the NV gear.

        • #105932
          Corvette
          Participant

            Nice contribution!

            I fixed one of them for you… but deleted the 2nd one by mistake. :cry:
            Linking here is very different than vbulletin.
            Even I had ot putz around with it a few times to get it right.
            Not a problem I think we’ll get used to it.

          • #105933
            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
            Moderator

              Excellent option, thank you for posting.

              Once you own decent NV it is difficult to imagine not having. There are so many uses beyond tactical you’ll wonder how you got by without it.

              I have an older set of PVS-5 goggles that I have often wondered about making into two monocular vice one binocular.

              PVS-5

              They might just be the ticket to making this a reality.

            • #105934
              DiznNC
              Participant

                That sounds like a decent deal. Like you said, the dicey part is getting a tube. My only concern is how many hours may be left on one they are selling for half price. You may get lucky, or not. But it’s one way in. I did much the same thing on my first set.

                As an alternative, you can find the housing, lenses, and everything else, minus tube for around $1,000.00 new. A new tube is around $1200.00. Put it together yourself, purge it, and you’re in business for around $2200.00-24000.00. Versus around $3,000.00 for a new unit. So you could do this and get a new unit with about $500.00-1,000.00 savings.

                Or if you have the cash, just buy new and be done with it.

                Night Vision is awesome, and I’m glad a gave up a lot of other weapons and equipment to obtain it. If you can swing it, pull the trigger. If not, no worries. There will be plenty around after awhile, for the brave and the bold.

                You can stop right there and just use it as a night monocular, just as you would scan with binos during the day at security halts. Or you can kick it up a notch or two. First, there’s a helmet mount set up. A good bump helmet with shroud will run anywhere from $100.00-250.00. The J-arm and rino mount are about $100.00, if they didn’t come with your unit. A ballistic helmet with shroud is around $100.00-500.00, used or new.

                But the real prize is getting an IR laser. This is the real game-changer. With an IR laser you can actually fight with NV at night. Low end is about $500.00 for IR laser only, up to around $2,000.00 for a combined unit, with viz and IR lasers, and usually some kind of illum thrown in. I can’t even begin to describe the difference in situational awareness, when you can sight and fire your rifle, with just a side chin weld, versus being locked down all the way with a full cheek weld. The peripheral vision is just fantastic. Just by having your head up an extra 1 1/2-2″ makes a huge difference. Takes some getting used to, but once you do, it’s awesome. And, having a flashlight with both viz and IR capability is also a big plus.

                But no worries, As fantastic as all this stuff is, you can fight very well without it too. A good RDS, or even just tritium sights will get you in there, until you battlefield up-grade.

              • #105935
                Max
                Keymaster

                  Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                  Yukon makes some pretty good stuff and it’s the equivalent of Gen I. I’d consider it entry level but it’s still pretty rugged for civilian gear.

                  Diz brings up good points. Binocular night vision is good if you’re operating in a rural area with no streetlights. Mono is better, I think, for urban areas if there’s enough light for your unaided eye to be useful. We wore it over the non-dom eye so we could shoot if we couldn’t use the IR laser.

                  I’m one of those guys who likes separate tools for separate functions. A bit more bulky, but if my white light goes down, I don’t have to replace an entire pod. I run a VITAL laser with a Sure Fire light (Cree LED upgrade bulb) and MVM2 monocular.

                • #105936
                  Max
                  Keymaster

                    Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                    One of the guys at our last shoot had a flare “gun” and shot one of the parachute illumination flares when it got dark (it was a day/night shoot). Having never seen you before, it was great! It can be aimed over the enemies area and lights up the whole area.

                  • #105937
                    Corvette
                    Participant

                      One of the guys at our last shoot had a flare “gun” and shot one of the parachute illumination flares when it got dark (it was a day/night shoot). Having never seen you before, it was great! It can be aimed over the enemies area and lights up the whole area.

                      I think in the next couple decades most serious civis will ahve NGV’s..

                      In the meantime flares can really even the playing field if a non NVG force is attacked by a NVG equipped force IMO.

                      Wash out their NVG’s now YOU have better visibility, as 2 naked eyes under illum are better than a guy distracted putzing around with flipping up his ocular while he is illumed, or leaving it on and being distracted by it..

                    • #105938
                      Max
                      Keymaster

                        Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                        Night vision is good stuff, but like every piece of kit, it’s not worth much unless you train with it. I’ve seen it time and again with my soldiers: unless you train them on the proper use of the equipment and then force them to use it, they’ll walk around with their NVGs flipped up and complain about how much they suck and how they can’t see anything with them. I once had a lieutenant ask me if an open area was a lake. We were standing just inside the edge of a woodline, there was partial illumination from a moon that was about to set. He had NVGs mounted but flipped up. I just stared at him for a long few seconds and then said, “Sir, flip your fucking NODs down and look for yourself. It’s a fucking road.”

                      • #105939
                        aveighter
                        Participant

                          A question for you guys more knowledgeable, if a choice had to be made, would you go with NV or thermal for most utility? Or is that even a valid question?

                        • #105940
                          Max
                          Keymaster

                            Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                            It’s a good question. There are head mounted thermals but you might want to sit down before you look at the price.

                            The FLIR unit that Max, and several others have, is a good unit, but near impossible to head mount without some kind of extension. I did it, but I would hate to fall down as it’s nearly on my eye. I joke with Max about wearing both because, ‘Merica.

                            I’d go with NVGs for that reason, assuming you only get one, and keep the FLIR around my neck for quick checks.

                          • #105941
                            Corvette
                            Participant

                              If I had to do only get one I would do NVG’s hands down.

                              The picture is much more natural and “finer” in a PVS14 than any FLIR I’ve seen (doesnt mean there arent better ones out there Randy has more experince in this than I do..but if they exist I am sure they are even more expensive than the oens I seen)

                              Plus PV14s are readily attached to your helmet in away the much bigger and heavier FLIR units dont (or at least not easily)

                              The monocle PVS14 setup is effective and natural.

                              Using NVG in combination with a IR laser can be just devastating in a firefight at night.

                              If the you have money for a second (and even more expenisve than the 1st) item a FLIR is great.
                              It also effective in the daytime and can do things NVGs simply cant.

                              But if nighttime shooting is the goal IMHO its hard to beat NVGs like PVS 14 especially especially combined w/ IR lasers.

                              Disclaimer: Randy and Max have a lot more experience w/ NVGs than I do..so if there is ever a delta between what they say and I say, go with them
                              ;-)

                            • #105942
                              Max
                              Keymaster

                                Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                The .mil is transitioning (slowly, they’re very expensive) to the AN/PSQ-20 thermal/I2 fusion night vision monocular.

                                Here’s a link: https://tnvc.com/shop/itt-dsnvg-anpsq-20/

                                Unfortunately, they’re currently only available to .gov, .mil and LE. It will be interesting to see if they become available for sale to the general public before they become available via battlefield pick up.

                              • #105943
                                Corvette
                                Participant

                                  Thats pretty nice.
                                  Let me guess 8 grand or more?

                                  The .mil is transitioning (slowly, they’re very expensive) to the AN/PSQ-20 thermal/I2 fusion night vision monocular.

                                  Here’s a link: https://tnvc.com/shop/itt-dsnvg-anpsq-20/

                                  Unfortunately, they’re currently only available to .gov, .mil and LE. It will be interesting to see if they become available for sale to the general public before they become available via battlefield pick up.

                                  Thats pretty nice.
                                  Let me guess 8 grand or more?

                                • #105944
                                  Max
                                  Keymaster

                                    Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                    I’ve been using NVG’s for a number of years for regular guy tasks like predator removal and driving boats at night. My conundrum is this: I like a dual tube design for navigation and depth perception, but they are weak if you get flashed with a light and they shut down or white out. A monocle has no depth perception but allows you to just use the naked eye in the case of a light source hit.

                                    Flir will be my next major investment. I’m just trying to figure out if I want to buy a clip on Flir rifle sight, or a scope. The clip on can be used for fighting and sighting, the scope can only be used for sighting. Most sights also have a better refresh rate.

                                    Thoughts?

                                  • #105945
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      ITT Exelis DSNVG Dual Sensor Night Vision Goggle (AN/PSQ-20)

                                      List Price: $18,999.00
                                      Price: $16,499.00
                                      You Save: $2,500.00
                                      Free 2nd Day Shipping!

                                      There are plenty of shops that will sell them if you can afford them!

                                    • #105946
                                      Max
                                      Keymaster

                                        Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                        I warned you to sit down.

                                      • #105947
                                        DiznNC
                                        Participant

                                          Good googly moogly, you can get out in the weeds with this stuff real fast.

                                          Man, what would you get first, tough question. The difference is in what they “see” for you. The FLIR is best when on security halt to do general scanning. The heat signature is probably gonna be the best target indicator, at least initially when you’re giving an area a quick scan. When you detect something, the NV optic is gonna give you much more clarity to see exactly whatthefug it is. So used in conjunction with each other they give you powerful battlefield ju ju.

                                          So I dunno. Is your area heavily wooded or otherwise obstructed, where FLIR would really help spot hot stuff at a distance, or do you want the extra bump inside 100, and especially inside 50m?

                                          The FLIR gives you awesome surveillance capability. The NV gives you pretty good surveillance, but awesome FIGHTING ability, when used in conjunction with a helmet mount, and IR laser.

                                          I would love to have at least one FLIR. with everybody sporting NV on my team.

                                          SO, ok, if it was me, I’d go NV first, and then (battlefield) pick up FLIR later.

                                          BTW, if someone wants to pop a flare and level out the battlefield, hey ok by me. That’s what the RDS is for. As an added bonus, if your IR laser also has a viz laser, you can still fight “heads up” with awesome situational awareness.

                                        • #105948
                                          aveighter
                                          Participant

                                            Thanks. Good advice. Makes sense.

                                          • #105949
                                            Max
                                            Keymaster

                                              Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                              Excellent option, thank you for posting.

                                              Once you own decent NV it is difficult to imagine not having. There are so many uses beyond tactical you’ll wonder how you got by without it.

                                              I have an older set of PVS-5 goggles that I have often wondered about making into two monocular vice one binocular.

                                              PVS-5

                                              They might just be the ticket to making this a reality.

                                              Holy Crap!!! A set of 5’s? Haven’t seen one of those since my first tour in Korea in the mid 80s. Depth perception with those took a lot of getting used to. One night I stepped out the man door on my APC and the ground looked like it was right there…well it wasn’t and I went ass over tea kettle.

                                            • #105950
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                “Holy Crap!!! A set of 5′s?”

                                                Yep, bought them used in 1994!

                                                Over twenty years of service and still going strong. Very durable and have been used several times a week ever since purchased.

                                                There is much better viewing performance available today, but the PVS-5’s are more than usable.

                                                It remains to be seen if newer gear will have that kind of service life.

                                              • #105951
                                                Max
                                                Keymaster

                                                  Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                                  I liked how comfortable they were to wear compared to the 7 and 7a that I used later on.

                                                • #105952
                                                  VonLennox85
                                                  Participant

                                                    Super necro post. However, I just bought a set of PVS14s from Robert. Super happy with them. That being said, I took a week long course with various NV/image intensification and thermal optics and sensors about 2 months ago. I probably out 3-400 rounds into targets from 5-300m wearing the PSQ20s and their next generation, the PSQ20As. Game changer, friends. I can’t afford it now (mortgages are a SOB), but for a package roughly the same size and weight as the 14, you are getting rough images out past normal rifle ranges alerting you to the presence of people rather than animals, and closer, images to clear you can ID your friends. The TTP we we’re taught was to have it in hybrid mode with the NV turned down enough to just make out the IR laser, then center the rifle high on our sternum and look over everything. Thermal targets inside smoke and filled shoot house and outside were clear as day and easy to score rapid hits on, in conditions I had a hard time walking in unaided. In summary, PVS14s are a solid investment and totally worth it. If you have the money, go PSQ20.

                                                  • #105953
                                                    wheelsee
                                                    Participant
                                                    • #105954
                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                      Moderator

                                                        Super necro post.

                                                        No such thing at the MVT Forum, feel free to bring up any topic. There is always something new to discuss.

                                                      • #105955
                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                        Moderator

                                                          I just bought a set of PVS14s from Robert.

                                                          No one better to purchase from IMHO.

                                                          I wouldn’t be surprised that he could get a set of 20’s for someone truly serious.

                                                          Note: I added disclaimers to many of the above posts.

                                                          Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                                        • #105956
                                                          Robert
                                                          Participant

                                                            We sell a few of the DSNVG and similar FUSION units as well. PVS14’s are still our “bread and butter” but if anyone serious wants a FUSION unit by all means shoot me an email.

                                                            A great option IMO/IME is adding a COTI unit to the 14 you already have. This adds a thermal overlay to the I2 image the 14 produces. When you don’t need it you can take it off.

                                                            And when you really look at it, a COTI and a PVS14 HP unit is still way cheaper than a dedicated fusion set :good:

                                                            http://www.jrhenterprises.com/COTI-Night-Vision-Thermal-Imaging-Fusion-Unit-COTIFUSION.htm

                                                            Obviously MVT Alumni and future Alum need to just email me when they get close to being ready and I can save them some bucks as well :)

                                                          • #105957
                                                            Robert
                                                            Participant

                                                              Also, I’d be remiss if I didn’t address an old wives tale that I saw when I scrolled through this thread that someone no longer on the forums mentioned.

                                                              Flares and other high light items being used to “shut down” enemy NV.

                                                              Guys, this is total BS unless you have some Russian Breakalotski device, something commercial or some really old skewl 1st Gen US Military stuff.

                                                              Most US MILITARY NV devices that are even 2nd gen had AUTO BRIGHTNESS CONTROL, which protected the tube against being damaged during really bright light events.

                                                              Newer, real deal AUTOGATED 3rd Gen sets protect the tube so quickly that your eye cannot even pick up on this.

                                                              I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been at an Expo or show displaying PVS14s and some jamoke pulls the daylight cover off and stares right up into the bright stadium light and then looks back at me with a dumb look on his face, thinking that the unit would black out or otherwise break because of him looking at the light. Course my thought is- “if you thought that was going to break the unit, that’s a real dick move to do that!” But I just smile and tell them the real deal with newer Night vision.

                                                              So ditch the crazy old fiction story ideas like “strobe lights in the trees” and the 7 Gajillion candlepower spotlights and the light “ground strobing fireworks” that we all bought in the 80’s and 90’s with the intent of hurting enemy NV. All those old ideas are going to get people killed. Is this just marketing? No being the kind of guy that TRIES to destroy gear, I tried the fireworks at 10 yards, I tried the million power lights, etc. Just like when I put cut telephone poles in as ballasts at my place and my friend’s place, I TESTED them. Nothing like driving an old truck into a telephone pole at 25 MPH to see if something works!!!

                                                            • #105958
                                                              wheelsee
                                                              Participant

                                                                Also, I’d be remiss if I didn’t address an old wives tale that I saw when I scrolled through this thread that someone no longer on the forums mentioned.

                                                                Flares and other high light items being used to “shut down” enemy NV.

                                                                Guys, this is total BS unless you have some Russian Breakalotski device, something commercial or some really old skewl 1st Gen US Military stuff.

                                                                But it (the tactic) was on Seal Team just last week and it saved them!! You mean TV and Hollywood aren’t accurate?? B-)

                                                              • #105959
                                                                First Sergeant
                                                                Moderator

                                                                  Tour Post

                                                                  First off, it would be hard not to punch some dick like that in the mouth.

                                                                  Second, thanks for bringing that up. I still run into that when people ask me a bout NOD’s. I you still see it other places on the net.

                                                                  FILO
                                                                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                                  Je ne regrette rien
                                                                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                                • #105960
                                                                  gramma
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    This looks like a serious investment – and I need a primer, it looks like. Starting with the typical device and it’s functionality – and then the science behind it.

                                                                  • #105961
                                                                    osozorro
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      @Robert Can you discuss the Coti/pvs14 vs thermal monocular(Breach)? Advantages/disadvantages? Thank you. :mail:

                                                                    • #105962
                                                                      Roadkill
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        Anyone using the white phos, rather than the green? Pros, cons? Worth the extra cost? I have a buddy who has the white and it seems like less eye strain over time. To me seems like the image is brighter. Cost though; wow.

                                                                      • #105963
                                                                        Robert
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          @Robert Can you discuss the Coti/pvs14 vs thermal monocular(Breach)? Advantages/disadvantages? Thank you. :mail:

                                                                          FLIR Breach is the new Boson core monocular that FLIR showed a prototype of at SHOT 2017. To date they have not shipped a single unit. It has gone through a redesign as well. It was originally going to be used in all roles- thermal monocular, TWS, clip on, head/helmet mounted, etc. About June they announced it would not be a TWS or clip on, just a head or helmet mounted (also handheld) thermal scanner.

                                                                          First of August FLIR announced the Thermosight PRO PTS233 thermal weapon sight with the new Boson core, said they start shipping the end of August. First units actually shipped from them in November and in extremely small quantities using an “allotment” system. I.e, doesn’t matter if a dealer had six dozen on order since August, you were sent a small handful per shipment. This has been a nightmare needless to say.

                                                                          The New Boson core units are the shizzle and definitely worth waiting for, but it will be a while before they are “on the shelf” ready to purchase.

                                                                          Some of the FLIR legacy units like the Scout III 240 and 320 are on a fall promo right now with big discounts. But realistically if your looking for a “one and done” type deal, I would look at the new Boson core models.

                                                                          COTI- great unit, a little hard to get at times. It works in conjunction with your PVS14, PVS7 or PVS15 (think a couple of other models like the BNVD and similar also) and it adds a thermal overlay to your I2 (Night vision) image. So you have the identification aspects of the NV coupled also with the heat detection aspects of a thermal in one package (Fusion). The COTI can be easily put on or off the PVS14 but to use the COTI as a stand alone thermal device you have to buy some special eyepiece that is around $500.

                                                                          The only drawback I would say with the COTI is that your IR laser point looks more like a backwards lower case “c” than a true dot.

                                                                          I put a video up years ago of mine on my old youtube channel- SurvivalReport on youtube.

                                                                          Integrating use of Thermal with NV-

                                                                          So I get the “which one would you buy first?” question almost daily. Realistically I would not be without my 14. We have looked back over the years and typically people buy a PVS14 first, then come back six months or whenever later and either get another 14 and then get a thermal or then get a thermal unit. Now some of this data comes from when an entry level Thermal unit ran $2,000. Now you can get an entry level thermal imager (Scout TK) for under $600.

                                                                          To me, the I2 (NV) image is easier for the brain to reconcile than the image from most thermals. Shorter learning curve IMO/IME. Thermal has it’s place, but for navigation, in general just walking around and scouting it is a far notch below NV.

                                                                          So how do you integrate the use of both technologies without having to drop $14K on a dedicated Fusion unit?

                                                                          Couple ways to play this-

                                                                          PVS14 helmet mounted or head mounted, IR laser on rifle, standard night fighting type setup, then add a handheld thermal imager. The handheld thermal is brought up semi regularly to “scan” ahead for heat signatures.

                                                                          Think about your standard every couple hundred yards (METT-C depending) patrol stops. The stop, listen, smell, look stops. Maybe you fish hooked also and are watching the back trail. These are the times when a handheld thermal would be useful. One patrol member pulls his out and scans the back trail. Or scans the next 100-200 yards (depending on terrain) ahead before the patrol moves forward. In the same manner and possibly at the same time a DM would be scanning ahead, checking possible shooter locations, glassing key terrain, etc. Ideally I’d have them relatively close together. The DM could then point out things to the guy with the thermal for further followup- “200 yards, slight depression next to the downed pine tree” DM has glassed this area already but perhaps the shadows keep him from making a clear call. The guy with the thermal can scan it to follow up.

                                                                          In a similar matter, if you go with a Thermal Weapon Sight (TWS), you can bring the rifle up and “scan” in the same manner to confirm heat signatures or lack thereof.

                                                                          If your running PVS14 with IR laser on the rifle you can run a TWS as well being as you will likely be running the 14 over your NON dominant eye (left side for most right hand shooters).

                                                                          Let me know if you any of you have any more questions. If what I wrote didn’t make sense let me know and I’ll try to elaborate :)

                                                                        • #105964
                                                                          TC
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            Newer, real deal AUTOGATED 3rd Gen sets protect the tube so quickly that your eye cannot even pick up on this. […]

                                                                            All those old ideas are going to get people killed. Is this just marketing? No being the kind of guy that TRIES to destroy gear, I tried the fireworks at 10 yards, I tried the million power lights, etc.

                                                                            So with the autogated Gen 3s, what DO we actually need to be careful with to avoid damage or reduced life on the tube?

                                                                          • #105965
                                                                            osozorro
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              Is the mount on the PTS233 removable?

                                                                            • #105966
                                                                              Robert
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Newer, real deal AUTOGATED 3rd Gen sets protect the tube so quickly that your eye cannot even pick up on this. […]

                                                                                All those old ideas are going to get people killed. Is this just marketing? No being the kind of guy that TRIES to destroy gear, I tried the fireworks at 10 yards, I tried the million power lights, etc.

                                                                                So with the autogated Gen 3s, what DO we actually need to be careful with to avoid damage or reduced life on the tube?

                                                                                Prudent protection is always in order. I tell customers obviously don’t go out and stare at the sun :) Use common sense.

                                                                                But I usually get the other extreme and I’ve had guys so paranoid about light and the tube they were unwilling to take the DAYLIGHT cover off AT NIGHT to see how bright the tube was.

                                                                                Your typical background light in the suburbs isn’t going to be a huge issue.

                                                                                I think reasonable SOP is just like we do at night without NVG- when a bright light source appears, turn your head slightly away. I find myself still doing this after years of training at night without NV. The old skewl by the manual “if a flare or bright light comes on, close an eye” deal for operating at night without NV.

                                                                                As I stated in one of my first replies, I TRIED to get my first unit to shut off via bright light sources when I first got it (you gotta know right? Especially when your selling something like this) and could not.

                                                                                What’s really more of a concern is the use of an illuminated scope along with a PVS14. In other words, a cheap copy of a red dot type scope that is NOT “NV Compatible” set on a rail in line with a PVS14 wherein the illuminated dot is constantly in view of the 14. This can cause a sometimes temporary sometimes permanent burn on the tube.

                                                                                Now if you have a “NV compatible” electronic sight, this shouldn’t be a problem. You’ll notice the “NV” settings on something like a Trijicon MRO or an Aimpoint PRO are barely even visible to the naked eye but blindingly bright to the 14. Turn it way down if you are going to use a red dot sight in conjunction with your 14.

                                                                                Confession time- very early on when I got my first 14, I used mine in conjunction with a cheap Sig Sauer STS 81 red dot and I hunted with that more than a few times on my AK without any problems. But I’ve heard of people burning in dot images on their tubes by LONG TERM use of a red dot aiming point in conjunction with their 14.

                                                                                Truth be told, you won’t be running it that way anyways, you’ll have an IR laser on your rifle and the 14 head or helmet mounted for ease of use, safety issues and to avoid arm fatigue. Go to NODF class with Max and you’ll figure this out quick.

                                                                              • #105967
                                                                                Robert
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Is the mount on the PTS233 removable?

                                                                                  I brought a unit up to last FOF Tactics class in November for another Alumni to look at. The mount does appear to be removable via two big screws. I would venture to say someone will come out with an aftermarket quick release mount for these soon once FLIR indeed ships enough of these for the market to demand it.

                                                                                  That being said, the unit is a little long to try to adapt it to a helmet mount/head mount type setup. Handheld, sure, head mount or helmet mount it would be awkward.

                                                                                • #105968
                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                    Pay attention to the information Robert is putting out here, it’s solid real world information.

                                                                                    Robert has an outstanding reputation both here in the Forum and in business. He can elaborate on just how long JRH has been around, but I’ve purchased various items since he was here in Florida. so we’re talking a long time.

                                                                                    If you buy quality gear you will get a very long service life.

                                                                                    Consider what he is saying about bright lights and NODS. even my antique PVS-5’s aren’t blinded by lights (note there were many different PVS-5’s).

                                                                                    I am not saying buy antiques, but noting how long quality gear lasts. Close to thirty years of at least weekly use in my case.

                                                                                    Don’t overlook how to work in darkness without NODS. Everything that applies in daylight applies at night and night work is a very perishable skill.

                                                                                  • #105969
                                                                                    First Sergeant
                                                                                    Moderator

                                                                                      Pay attention to the information Robert is putting out here, it’s solid real world information.

                                                                                      Robert has an outstanding reputation both here in the Forum and in business. He can elaborate on just how long JRH has been around, but I’ve purchased various items since he was here in Florida. so we’re talking a long time.

                                                                                      If you buy quality gear you will get a very long service life.

                                                                                      Consider what he is saying about bright lights and NODS. even my antique PVS-5’s aren’t blinded by lights (note there were many different PVS-5’s).

                                                                                      I am not saying buy antiques, but noting how long quality gear lasts. Close to thirty years of at least weekly use in my case.

                                                                                      Don’t overlook how to work in darkness without NODS. Everything that applies in daylight applies at night and night work is a very perishable skill.

                                                                                      Thanks Joe, you just gave me flashbacks and a headache all at the same time from seeing a set of 5’s. ;-)

                                                                                      Robert is dead on with what he is saying. I still turn my head and close an eye when a bright light comes up at night, even under NOD’s.

                                                                                      FILO
                                                                                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                                                      Je ne regrette rien
                                                                                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                                                    • #105970
                                                                                      First Sergeant
                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                        Anyone using the white phos, rather than the green? Pros, cons? Worth the extra cost? I have a buddy who has the white and it seems like less eye strain over time. To me seems like the image is brighter. Cost though; wow.

                                                                                        I don’t own a set but I have spent some time looking through white phos NOD’s. I know the price is more, but I think in the long run it is worth it. You see better through them.

                                                                                        I have the standard set of 14’s that I purchased through Robert. I added the Wilcox Amber Filter and that makes a huge difference over the standard shades of green. And I spent years using 5’s, 7B’s and 14’s.

                                                                                        The white phos is my next “big ” purchase.

                                                                                        FILO
                                                                                        Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                                                        Je ne regrette rien
                                                                                        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                                                      • #105971
                                                                                        Roadkill
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          Thanks First Sergeant, time to save my shekels. My boy will get the green.

                                                                                        • #105972
                                                                                          Robert
                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                            The WP tubes add about a grand to the cost of a PVS14 and while you will typically see slightly higher specifications, just keep in mind it’s about $1,000. more. We don’t push the WP tubes a lot, but we carry them also. But easily sell 100 to 1 green to WP.

                                                                                            The green HP tubes, we’ve been seeing pretty high specifications on them most of the year.

                                                                                            I’m not quite ready personally to fork over the extra cash for the WP tubes. I’m hoping a price break will happen in the next few years.

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