MVT Class Ammunition Restrictions

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    • #108564
      Max
      Keymaster

        The following is copied from the information packet that is sent out to students prior to class. I have just added a note / clarification in there, to state that with the exception of tracer, these restrictions do not apply to square / flat range classes. This is because these restrictions are purely to protect the electronic and steel targets that are used during MVT tactical classes.

        So if you are attending a Combat Rifle Skills Class, it does not matter what ammo you bring.

        If you are attending Combat Team Tactics, it does.

        There is however a grey area, with Rifle Skills and the first day of Combat Team Tactics taking place on the flat range. So yes, theoretically it does not matter if you use, for example, green tip or 193 ammo on the flat range days. The issue is students not taking personal responsibility to ensure the ammunition is not carried over in loaded mags to the tactical range days, where electronic and steel targets are used.

        At the end of the day, with the exception of students who are pulling ammo from their stockpiles, purchasing the type of training ammo we recommend should actually be cheaper for you. PMC Bronze, for example, is about $315 for 1000 right now. So it is no big issue.


        From the Information Packet:

        AMMUNITION: MVT runs combat rifle / carbine classes that are focused on the AR15 platform.  It is recommended that you use 5.56 / .223 or 7.62 x 39 ammunition only at class, conforming to the restrictions listed below. For a number of reasons, you should not bring larger caliber ammunition to class, including .308 etc. If you have questions for clarification, please email: maxvelocitytactical@gmail.com.

        Work on an average of 400-500 rifle rounds per day. Check the website for individual class ammo requirements. FoF classes do not require live ammo, but require AR15 rifles only. 

        NO penetrator, steel core, armor piercing, bi-metal, M855, tracer or similar.

        NO M193 / XM193 / 193 ammunition or similar. No ‘magnetic’ ammo. 

        Recommended for Training: PMC Bronze .223 55 grain, or similar ammunition with a velocity of less than 3000 fps (16″ barrel). This will reduce damage to steel and electronic equipment on the ranges. For AK ammo, ensure it complies with the requirements above.

         Ammo may be magnet tested. 

        IMPORTANT NOTE: for classes held purely on the square / flat range, ammunition type does not matter (with the exception of tracer). However, it is VITAL that common sense and diligence is applied for classes moving from the flat range to tactical ranges utilizing electronic pop-up and steel targets, which is the equipment these ammunition restrictions are intended to protect.


        If you are firing 7.62 x 39, ensure it complies. AKs are not ‘banned’ at class, but ammunition must comply. Yes, MVT classes are AR-centric. in terms of types of rifle at MVT classes, the following applies, also taken from the information packet:

        • *Fighting Rifle: a semi-automatic battle rifle utilizing detachable magazines of minimum 20 round capacity. AR/AK type platforms are an example of a suitable rifle. The safety must be operable with the firing hand, by finger or thumb, without removing the hand from the pistol grip.
        • MVT Classes are AR15 centric for weapon manipulation training.
        • Rifle spare parts/spare rifle/optics are useful in case of failures.
        • *Ensure your rifle is well / excessively lubricated.
        • *Rifle magazines (20 or 30 rounds standard capacity): minimum eight.

        – Unique tape on your magazines will help you find them after drills.

        – Bring as many magazines as you can, pre-loaded, to avoid wasting time loading magazines between drills. 16 would be better than 8.

        – *Bring 4 empty magazines to day 1 of CTT 1 x penny.


        General Info / Links:

        TRAINING LOCATIONS

        TRAINING CLASS LIST

        TRAINING CALENDAR

        HOW TO BOOK TRAINING

        MOBILE TRAINING CLASSES

        MVT YOUTUBE PAGE

      • #108565
        Mike H
        Participant

          Good policy thanks for the clarification.

        • #108566
          DuaneH
          Participant

            Not trying to turn this into a series of rabbit trails, but are there any other .223/5.56 on the approved list?

          • #108567
            Max
            Keymaster

              I think you are confusing a suggestion with an approved list.

            • #108568
              DuaneH
              Participant

                .

              • #108569
                Max
                Keymaster

                  Where are the ammo nerds when I need them? Someone produced a list before of suitable non-193 .223 ammo that performs at less thn 3000fps from a 16″ barrel. Any chance we can do that again?

                • #108570
                  swmcphrsn
                  Participant

                    Was this it?

                  • #108571
                    norinco
                    Participant

                      Suggestions for ammo in 7.62×39 that meets the requirements above?

                    • #108572
                      dg
                      Participant
                      • #108573
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          I have relaxed the ammunition restrictions for the VTC. This has been updated on the admin / gear page for HEAT 1, and on the info packets that are sent out. It still does not mean that you should not buy cheap bulk ammo for tactical training.

                          I have done this because the targets at the VTC are protected by target pits, and we do not directly use steel targets or shields. It does not mean that occasionally the lip of a target pit does not get shot away, and the target arm hit. It still happens. So I do prefer bulk 55 grain etc.

                          The ammo restrictions still exist for mobile classes, which was the primary reason for them. This is becasue we do directly use steel targets behind Ivans, and we use steel shields to protect the mobile electronic targets.

                        • #108574
                          Robert
                          Participant

                            Suggestions for ammo in 7.62×39 that meets the requirements above?

                            We have shot probably over 10K rounds into the WV hills at Max’s place of Wolf X39. Never a problem with it. And it’s not steel core or any penetrator type round, just ball.

                            I believe the concern was steel core/penetrator type rounds, not steel case as in casing wherein 7.62×39 was concerned. The AKs seem to do fine with the steel CASED ammo wherein a lot of the ARs don’t like it evidently.

                            If using an AK, test your brass cased ammo before class, like the Yugo stuff. Some of it is evidently better than others. I’m going to stick with the Wolf/Golden Tiger/Drunken Monkey brands, they have worked out well.

                          • #108575
                            Jim Tom
                            Participant

                              Has anyone used Wolf Gold during a class?
                              If so, any issues on the target shields or Cittac targets?

                            • #108576
                              Lloyd
                              Participant

                                Has anyone used Wolf Gold during a class?
                                If so, any issues on the target shields or Cittac targets?

                                That is what Morris and I used last year at Brady, and I think Jason H was also using it… I also use on my own CITTAC steel, and it doesn’t seem to chew them up.

                                MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                Team Coyote / Team Rekkr / Team Cowbell

                              • #108577
                                GreenTip
                                Participant

                                  I used it last fall. Not heard of any issues.

                                • #108578
                                  Jim Tom
                                  Participant

                                    :good:

                                    Has anyone used Wolf Gold during a class?
                                    If so, any issues on the target shields or Cittac targets?

                                    That is what Morris and I used last year at Brady, and I think Jason H was also using it… I also use on my own CITTAC steel, and it doesn’t seem to chew them up.

                                    I used it last fall. Not heard of any issues.

                                  • #108579
                                    jaydiesel
                                    Participant

                                      Hey, this is Jason. Wife and I used Wolf Gold for the whole class. I really like the stuff and don’t recall any significant issues. Some folks on the net report 2950 FPS and others report 3090 and so on. I don’t recall if there were issues with the shields at that time or if there were and they could be tied to the wolf gold.

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