Lay Up Position or Hide Site

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    • #130557
      D Close
      Moderator

        How close or far away should the LUP be from the target? How far to the OP or surveillance position?

        Would a wired, sound-powered phone be advisable?

        How often would we expect a six man team to rotate guys into the OP from the LUP? Should guys shed their rucks in the OP?

        Are there any members of the team who should not be assigned to the OP?

      • #130613
        Robert Henry
        Participant

          How close or far away should the LUP be from the target? How far to the OP or surveillance position?

          Would a wired, sound-powered phone be advisable?

          How often would we expect a six man team to rotate guys into the OP from the LUP? Should guys shed their rucks in the OP?

          Are there any members of the team who should not be assigned to the OP?

          Guys who snore. And some just seem to fidget way too much.

          I remember laying in this small hide on my belly in a pine forest for a day one time. The other guy wouldn’t STFU or stop fidgeting. About 12 people were searching for us after we fired a couple of shots from this position at a specified time. We built the hide good and they never found us- but the nonstop jabbering of this other guy made me hope they would!

          The next day we had to go out and occupy it again, because the others didn’t think we had set up a hide in the right area. So we occupied the hide again. Several hours later we heard then organizing everyone into a skirmish line- they were spread out a couple yards each and were walking this section like that specifically to find our hide. This one skinny dude stepped on the branches and pine needles that covered our hide. Sticks poked the crap out of our backs as I covered my head. Thankfully he was one of the skinny dudes but the a-hole did jump up and down a few times while saying “I found them!”

          They had searched that same area the day before and missed us. :good:

          Running WD1 would add to your placement time and could be detected easy. Would definitely help with commsec however.

          www.jrhenterprises.com

          Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
          Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

        • #130639
          D Close
          Moderator

            Running WD1 would add to your placement time and could be detected easy. Would definitely help with commsec however.

            Being outside a patrolling distance from the target helps mitigate that risk. Some targets are not going to lend themselves to easy ground observation. Forested areas may require an OP to be located closer to the target than you would like. From the target perspective, if possible, I want to run active patrols outside the wire as a deterrent to this. Running area reconnaissance around a FOB at irregular intervals would help to prevent easy surveillance. If the target was known to routinely do this, I agree it would be risky to run WD1, even at 100m or so.

          • #130652
            Max
            Keymaster

              Running any sort of wire? Guess what, you gotta dig it in and camoflage it. There are possible options such as running it along something like a barbed wire fence. IRA used to do stuff like this to run command wire. We would search for it as part of 5 meter checks.

              So, bet you don’t. :bye:

            • #130739
              First Sergeant
              Moderator

                How close or far away should the LUP be from the target? How far to the OP or surveillance position?

                Would a wired, sound-powered phone be advisable?

                How often would we expect a six man team to rotate guys into the OP from the LUP? Should guys shed their rucks in the OP?

                Are there any members of the team who should not be assigned to the OP?

                Distance from target to OP(Hide Site) is going to to depend on terrain, Line of Sight and how well patrolled the area is. Weather can also play a factor(rain, snow, fog etc.)

                From the OP to the LUP position is going to depend on terrain. You don’t want the LUP to be to close to the OP. I have done it where it was 250 to 300 meters between the two.

                Rotation is going to be determined by how long you are going to be in position and how well concealed the OP is. The more movement between the two the greater the risk of being compromised. I have had TL’s that never rotated and TL’s that rotated about every 24 hours.

                As Max said, you lay wire it has to be camouflaged extremely well. Remember what I said about the locals?

                FM between sites? Do the bad guys have DF capability? We always set up a time, usually twice a day, that someone from the OP and the LUP would link up to pass off intel gathered.

                Who goes to the OP and who doesn’t is going to come down to knowing the guys you are with and knowing what they are capable of. Can they stand laying in an OP for hours or days without having to move, talk constantly or be entertained by a phone? (I always carried a book to read or a crossword puzzle book. One guy always carried one of those travel sized chess sets.) Do they snore, have a constant cough, a bladder the size of a walnut? All of this has to be figured out in training and stuff will still happen when you are out for real. Example: good guy, no issues gets sick with a cold while on mission. He is constantly sneezing and coughing. Are you going to pout him in the OP? Did you pack anything to treat it? Cough syrup or cough drops? Or he gets the runs while in the OP. Are you going to leave him there or switch him out?

                These are all issues that a good TL will wargame before a mission to ensure that he can react to whatever happens. The ones I mentioned are just a drop in the bucket.

                FILO
                Signal Out, Can You Identify
                Je ne regrette rien
                In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

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