HEAT 1 Observations August 2019

View Latest Activity

Home Forums Essential Information for MVT Classes HEAT 1 Observations August 2019

Viewing 21 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #114667
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

        Magazines- This is the second class that someone has over inserted a magazine during a drill. What happens is the magazine is shoved so far into the mag well during a combat reload that the bolt hits the back of the magazine when the bolt released is pushed. This time it was a Magpul Gen 2. Pay attention during reloads, there is no reason to put that much force into seating a mag.

        Charging Handles- Get rid of the stock charging handles on your AR’s. Some of the ones that are being put on rifles are to easy to bind and the standard latch is to small. My recommendation is a BCM medium sized latch. It will make weapons manipulation easier.

        Ammo- A student had an issue during the malfunction drills. The bullet was getting pushed back into the case allowing the powder to dump into the chamber. When that happens the rifle will not go into battery. You then have to clean the chamber to get rid of the powder, a toothbrush works best.

        The reason this is happening is due to the type of ammo, .223 Rem in this case. Most .223 doesn’t have a good crimp on the bullet when it is manufactured. 5.56 ammo will have a crimp that should prevent this from happening. I have not seen this with any 5.56 marked ammo, only with .223 Rem. I have some Federal .223 and it does the same thing.

        I know everyone is trying to save money when they buy ammo for class. The problem is that going cheap can bite you in the ass. Just like with going the cheapest route with a rifle, cheap ammo can cause issues. Spend a little more and buy 5.56 marked ammo.

        Ambi-Safeties -We see this over and over. Students use the thumb to rotate the safety off and their trigger finger to rotate the safety on. This is an accident waiting to happen. When you get in a hurry your trigger finger can slip into the trigger guard and fire a round. That is not good. If you insist on having one on your rifle you have to ensure that your thumb rotates the safety on and off. My recommendation is to get rid of them.

        • This topic was modified 5 months ago by Max.

        FILO
        Signal Out, Can You Identify
        Je ne regrette rien
        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

      • #115353
        First Sergeant
        Moderator

          This will probably be the last one of these that I do.

          I am getting no feedback so I guess no one is getting anything out of it.

          FILO
          Signal Out, Can You Identify
          Je ne regrette rien
          In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

          • #115362
            Max
            Keymaster

              :-) You know it doesn’t make a difference, because it keeps happening at class.

              But it’s indicative of a wider issue on this forum: lurking and not taking part. I think Joe is single handedly responsible for most content and activity on this firum, aside from my updates and posts.

              Guys, it’s a forum. Not a place for lurking. The forum was originally conceived as an alternative posting location for blog articles, to allow discussion without my needing to moderate each comment.

              Yes, we want you to be more active. Yes, there will still be moderation. No, we will not let you take the forum to the crazy place where I know you want to take it. Keep it engaged, rational, and constructive.

            • #115367
              Civilianresponder
              Participant

                I dont have much to say but your posts are definitely something I pay attention to and get value from. In fact your advice about spare parts kept me in the training after I bent a firing pin after improperly reassembling my rifle after cleaning one evening during Texas 2018. Thanks.

            • #115368
              Civilianresponder
              Participant

                I had a problem at the Texas training this year with magazine over insertion. I believe the issue was that the magazine release was not tight enough so it was allowing the magazines to over insert. After tightening the mag release I have not been able to get the issue to repeat. This was in a bcm lower with gen m2 magpul magazines.

              • #115371
                veritas556
                Participant

                  Carry on. The feedback and info is valuable. Some probably tuck it away in their memory banks without a “thanks”. I carry a spare bolt now, drink more water ;) and only use SLIP thanks to your input so … Others are slower on the uptake apparently. You can’t fix stupid.

                • #115375
                  Anonymous
                  Inactive

                    I take note of First Sergeant’s posts, I just don’t have anything to add. I’ve been piss broke lately (one thing after another – car breaks down, bills, sofa breaks, cat gets sick, bills, car breaks down, etc.) so I don’t expect to be able to attend a class any time soon. I’ve observed that him and the others get annoyed by me as-is so I’ve been reducing my activity on here.

                    I already had one charging handle fail on me already, will definitely take note of First Sergeant’s suggestion to invest in a BCM latch.

                    I recall Wolf Gold ammo being recommended for those on a budget in the past (not sure who suggested it, it’s been a while), is that ammo also causing issues in classes?

                  • #115394
                    Hessian
                    Participant

                      This will probably be the last one of these that I do.

                      I am getting no feedback so I guess no one is getting anything out of it.

                      First Sergeant I read every post made by Max, Joe and yourself since I’ve joined the forum. Most of the time I don’t have much to add value wise to the discussion so I don’t bother to post much.

                      First timers at MVT seems to be where most people run into teething issues with their guns and gear. Perhaps Max and First Sergeant should make a few YT videos to put out there for what students need for their first HEAT 1 class. Perhaps making a video on the Colt AR vs 3K and home brew ARs could be a nice ‘pot stirring’ video to get traffic to the channel. The rest of the ones could just be a simple up front videos and maybe a “watch this before heat 1” Playlist that covers the more common issues seen during a heat 1 class… ammo, magazines, charging handles, certain gear ect.. that the instructors have seen fail time and time again. Also make sure to recommend brands at varying price points.

                    • #115424
                      Anonymous
                      Inactive

                        First timers at MVT seems to be where most people run into teething issues with their guns and gear. Perhaps Max and First Sergeant should make a few YT videos to put out there for what students need for their first HEAT 1 class. Perhaps making a video on the Colt AR vs 3K and home brew ARs could be a nice ‘pot stirring’ video to get traffic to the channel. The rest of the ones could just be a simple up front videos and maybe a “watch this before heat 1” Playlist that covers the more common issues seen during a heat 1 class… ammo, magazines, charging handles, certain gear ect.. that the instructors have seen fail time and time again. Also make sure to recommend brands at varying price points.

                        This would be interesting actually.

                      • #115425
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          Perhaps Max and First Sergeant should make a few YT videos to put out there for what students need for their first HEAT 1 class.

                          Great, volunteer us for more work. We don’t even live close to each other, let alone the VTC.

                          How about, people actually read this and action it?

                        • #115432
                          wheelsee
                          Participant

                            This will probably be the last one of these that I do.

                            I am getting no feedback so I guess no one is getting anything out of it.

                            Please don’t stop. Yes, I get information out of it, every single one of your posts.

                            I need to be more mindful of at least giving a thumbs up or something to acknowledge the post.

                          • #115485
                            wheelsee
                            Participant

                              BTW – I keep a running list of your observations on all the classes as a Word file…… reviewing as I go, and when I am looking at adding or changing inventory

                            • #115486
                              RobRoy
                              Participant

                                Any issues with the 5.56 seconds ammo that is kicked out of the government contracts but ends on the civvie market?

                              • #115508
                                Rich
                                Participant

                                  One thing I have taken away from my time in the military is the thanklessness of giving feedback and receiving any in return. I’ve learned that my troops consider what I’ve given them, but don’t give any reply for any combination of reasons, the biggest being that they feel like a reply would just waste my time, as if a “thank you” or “acknowledged” really affects my daily routine. It truly doesn’t. I’ll chime in that the ambi-safety observation applies to me directly, and 1SG’s advice avoiding it is practical and just makes good sense. For feedback’s sake, I already passed the same advice on to my team.

                                • #115515
                                  Thomas
                                  Participant

                                    This will probably be the last one of these that I do.

                                    I am getting no feedback so I guess no one is getting anything out of it.

                                    1SG, it’s hard to respond when I agree with what you write. Can’t go wrong with the BCM charging handle. I have never been a fan of ambidextrous safeties on rifle or handgun.

                                    Same to be said for Max and Joe. Max puts out a lesson and people absorb it. Most can’t comment because of the knowledge base. I agree with what Max writes on training and tactics.

                                  • #115521
                                    First Sergeant
                                    Moderator

                                      Any issues with the 5.56 seconds ammo that is kicked out of the government contracts but ends on the civvie market?

                                      If you are talking about XM193 and XM855, I have never seen an issue with either one. XM193 is what I use to train with and is what I shoot all my demo’s with at class.

                                      I had a problem at the Texas training this year with magazine over insertion. I believe the issue was that the magazine release was not tight enough so it was allowing the magazines to over insert. After tightening the mag release I have not been able to get the issue to repeat. This was in a bcm lower with gen m2 magpul magazines.

                                      That could be an issue as it was in your case. It could also be the magazine. Not all mags are created equal. There is a reason Magpul put over insertion tabs on Gen 3 PMags. The problem with that is they cause issues with BCM lowers. BCM knows about it and has done nothing to address it.

                                      I recall Wolf Gold ammo being recommended for those on a budget in the past (not sure who suggested it, it’s been a while), is that ammo also causing issues in classes?

                                      I know some use it but I have seen issues with it. This last class there was a student using it that kept getting failure to fire malfunctions with Wolf Gold. It ran other ammo fine.

                                      FILO
                                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                      Je ne regrette rien
                                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                    • #115523
                                      First Sergeant
                                      Moderator

                                        At least my statement got some movement on this topic.

                                        This is what I would like to see when I post this stuff. As you can see, three other topics got addressed that weren’t part of the OP. Those were probably questions that others had also but haven’t asked, for whatever reason.

                                        Going forward, I will post these types of threads in this section of the forum. I am in the process of putting together a roll up of all of these types of threads into one post. That will then be stickied for future reference.

                                        As Max said above, you guys get out of this exactly what you put into it. Feedback is essential.

                                        FILO
                                        Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                        Je ne regrette rien
                                        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                      • #115606
                                        leam
                                        Participant

                                          How about, people actually read this and action it?

                                          I started that a couple days ago. Listing what I have, seeing what I do not have. Going over the physical requirements. The financial reality is that I won’t be able to make class in 2020. Emotionally, that stinks, but it is the truth. While the cost of class is fine and the equipment expectations are reasonable, I’m starting pretty much at nothing. It will take time to get to the front gate.

                                          And that’s okay. Not ideal, and certainly doesn’t stroke my ego. I ran a precision 22 match today. That’s what I can afford, and people had fun. As I build my gear and walk around my neighborhood, I’ll get closer with each step.

                                        • #115640
                                          Anonymous
                                          Inactive

                                            Thanks for the feedback First Sergeant, if I ever do get to a class so far 5.56 isn’t much more expensive than .223 the last time I checked.

                                          • #115671
                                            Healthhokie
                                            Participant

                                              My bad for not responding but I read and take it all in. The feedback is pretty consistent across the classes regarding rifles, ammo, fitness, charging handles etc.

                                              I mentioned to another shooter I know the issues with lower built component rifles in the classes and what happens when you stress the rifles and you would have thought I called his wife a name.

                                            • #115677
                                              trailman
                                              Participant

                                                FWIW I read all of them and take heed to the information. From lubes to equipment recommendations.

                                                Question for me is; Other than an obvious keyhole when is a good time to replace a barrel or other parts? This comes out of some observations. One when I was having trouble with Wolf ammo (Shut your mouth) between my daily use gun and the one I built for the X. My gun ran fine, the other had FTF FTE all kinds of problems. Getting home I ran some PMC through both and they cycled fine. The wolf is definitely lower power. My gun is what I have been using for the past five six years, probably 8,000-10,000 rounds through it. How much wear on the barrel dictates a change and on the second part how much wear on the buffer spring dictates a change. My gun is a older PSA lower, the other gun is a spikes lower of same vintage (2013 MD Non-Assault weapons ban) with very little use. Would that many rounds take that much out of the buffer spring?

                                              • #115954
                                                First Sergeant
                                                Moderator

                                                  FWIW I read all of them and take heed to the information. From lubes to equipment recommendations.

                                                  Question for me is; Other than an obvious keyhole when is a good time to replace a barrel or other parts? This comes out of some observations. One when I was having trouble with Wolf ammo (Shut your mouth) between my daily use gun and the one I built for the X. My gun ran fine, the other had FTF FTE all kinds of problems. Getting home I ran some PMC through both and they cycled fine. The wolf is definitely lower power. My gun is what I have been using for the past five six years, probably 8,000-10,000 rounds through it. How much wear on the barrel dictates a change and on the second part how much wear on the buffer spring dictates a change. My gun is a older PSA lower, the other gun is a spikes lower of same vintage (2013 MD Non-Assault weapons ban) with very little use. Would that many rounds take that much out of the buffer spring?

                                                  Buffer springs when new should be between 10 1/16 inches up to 11 1/4 inches. If it measures below that change it.

                                                  The barrel is something you are going to have to decide when to change it. When you start seeing groups open up and staying that way is when you should change it. Most people don’t pay enough attention though and don’t notice a problem until it starts to keyhole.

                                                  Most of the uppers being produced by other gun makers are made with oversized gas ports to shoot all of the crappy ammo that is on the market. That is not a good thing. Wolf Gold is one of the crappy ones. A lot of the ammo on the market is very inconsistent from lot to lot, so it may run fine and then not run fine. I usually stick to the known ammo makers that put out ammo that is consistent from lot to lot.

                                                  My bad for not responding but I read and take it all in. The feedback is pretty consistent across the classes regarding rifles, ammo, fitness, charging handles etc.

                                                  I mentioned to another shooter I know the issues with lower built component rifles in the classes and what happens when you stress the rifles and you would have thought I called his wife a name.

                                                  People don’t want to hear that they made bad decisions. Remind me a class this weekend to tell you about a conversation at the store from a couple weeks ago.

                                                  FILO
                                                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                  Je ne regrette rien
                                                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                • #115963
                                                  contentneaman
                                                  Participant

                                                    These feedbacks have saved me from making bad gear purchases and made me get rid of poor quality gear. It is very much appreciated. I don’t respond because like others, I am just soaking it all in and making notes. I think the lack of chatter shows that most here agree with your observations and are taking head and applying these things. Please keep them coming!

                                                  • #129642
                                                    Spencer
                                                    Participant

                                                      Thanks for the valuable information.

                                                      DCH 10/2019
                                                      H.E.A.T. 1 12/2019

                                                  Viewing 21 reply threads
                                                  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.