February 11, 2020 at 11:42 am #139732onegunshortParticipant
I am in the process of getting my fighting gear squared away, but now need to get my supporting gear. Now I want to determine what to include in my gear.
I have two levels of LBE. I have a JayJays commander molle set and a medium assault pack. The plan is to outfit both differently depending upon the goal. For example, I could run the JayJays and plate carrier without sidearm for a patrol. I can add the backpack at any time. Alternatively, I could use the battle belt and pack.
The question is: what are the necessities?
Some ideas for the JayJays:
1 or 2 broken down MRE’s
Nightvision or handheld optics
Poncho for improvised tent
What else do you suggest?
February 11, 2020 at 5:29 pm #139765
6-8 mags on battle belt. NVGs go in pack. Waste of real estate on belt. Gloves go in your pocket.
There is a difference between a patrol pack and going with a ruck. Patrol is extra ammo, food, water, equipment and maybe snivel gear and or rain jacket.
A ruck is for living in the field for 3 plus days. Which means 3plus days of food. Shitcan the clothes in pack. All you need are extra socks. Shitcan the poncho and get a tarp with bungees.
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by hellokitty.
HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
HEAT 2 (CP) X1
February 12, 2020 at 8:47 am #139818DiznNCParticipant
Hello Kitty is getting you squared away here but I would add. Step back and think about what YOUR requirements are. There is so much bullshit on line that you can’t take a generic load out and just plug it in without figuring what you really need here. What are your mission sets? What do you need in the way of training, weapons, and equipment to pull them off? And how do you go about making that happen. Once you answer those questions, then the question of what your load out should look like becomes apparent.
I love Jay Jays belt kit but that is not to say that’s what you need. I think Max has written extensively here about the fight light concept, which is probably pretty close to your requirements. So that’s where I’d start. Battle belt, PC, and maybe light assault pack.
The next level might be something akin to a full belt kit from Jay jays, and then a full sized “Bergen” to go with it.
But that would be after my EDC kit, and/or SHTF kit, as described in the fight light philosophy.
It sounds like you have all the basics, you just need to organize them into load outs to fit your mission sets.
February 12, 2020 at 10:57 am #139829onegunshortParticipant
Right now, “missions” are “immediate” action, which is to say a plate carrier and battle belt. Plate carrier has 3 mags on it, belt has 4 mags, 1 pistol mag, pistol, dump pouch, knife. Eight rifle mags total, two for pistol. I will add a medkit and then it will be done.
As for the other missions, I’m not sure I’m able to define them. “SHTF” is out; in such a case I’ll likely have to stay home with the family.
But, it seems to me the JayJay’s mission should be local patrol. I am thinking it should support four to twelve hours of work. It’ll be heavier on mags (six in the pouch rather than four). It currently lacks a holster for a pistol because I do not have a MOLLE mount for a holster. I think a pistol is necessary, both for immediate action if the rifle stops working or to hand out to a friend in need.
What do people normally carry for patrol?
Here is some backpack brainstorming:
As for an assault pack, I’m still not sure where to go. The mission is undefined, so perhaps a sensible minimum is in order. I am contemplating what would be needed for a quick bug out, a city level riot requiring some overnight work, or possibly bolting out to support family in another city. Perhaps a car is involved.
1) Local area. Maybe overnight out of a pack.
2) Quick bugout to another family member’s home. Pack plus car. Trunk holds “stuff”. Camping gear, case of ammo, some extra loaded mags, clothing, spare pistol (with holster, belt and mags), etc.
February 12, 2020 at 4:05 pm #139857
Lets look at this realistically. Patrolling means foot or mobile patrols in your area. Which means either a day patrol or possibly overnight returning next day. You are NOT going to bring a ruck and a sleep system. You are not camping. You are literally sleeping in ambush site or back to back with your battle buddy. 50% on watch. It will suck. So all you need is your fighting load and a small pack with some food and equipment. Might throw a sweater in there for snivel. That is patrolling in your AO.
A ruck sack with sleeping system is when you are moving into another area via foot or mobile and your gonna live for a week out of your pack. This is gonna be a rarity. Because you are most likely not gonna patrol outside your AO. But its possible.
HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
HEAT 2 (CP) X1
February 12, 2020 at 4:06 pm #139858
By the way, if you train at MVT, Max will teach you this stuff.
HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
HEAT 2 (CP) X1
February 12, 2020 at 4:09 pm #139859
February 13, 2020 at 2:04 am #139927JustARandomGuyParticipant
…The plan is to outfit both differently depending upon the goal…
Maybe it seems like there’s a lot to figure out because you’re trying to do a little to much all at once here…You’ve got a belt kit, plate carrier, pack and you want them all to be set up differently but then also to all work together.
That’s… kind of a tall order.
The other that I’ll ask is, have you ever done any sort of training classes pertaining to this stuff yet?
Because what you think now, and what everyone here is going to spend a lot of time telling you, is possibly subject to change for you the first time you take any sort of class pertaining to SUT, not just shooting skills. I know it did for me…
In the meantime, something that may also help, is to work out a list of what you are pretty sure you’re always going to need to carry, and work from there – not necessarily a whole list of essentials for whatever mission, but items that are going to stay the SAME, regardless of what mission comes up.
It seems to me a lot of time people spend a lot of effort thinking about how or why they might need to scale up, or make things work together, and don’t spend enough time working out how they are going to organize and carry what they already have, or have a guaranteed use for.
It seems that what you’re looking for is a starting point to build off, so what might help you for now, is forget all this cross-compatibility / scalability / multi-mission stuff and pick the ONE piece of LBE that you think you’re going to use the most- either your belt kit or PC/CR. Forget EVERYTHING else.
Now you can simplify the ‘essentials’ down a lot; given we know you’re going to use a rifle, than regardless of mission, you’re going to fill a basic rifleman role, so now we can easily whittle it all down to “things I need RTFN for ANY mission”.
For example, a pretty good “basic rifleman essentials” start would be;
-4-6 rifle mags (or whatever your base load is)
-2x pistol mags (or whatever your base load is, if applicable)
-IFAK + TQ
-Comms (if applicable/available)
-multitool (and/or other malfunction fixing aid
-handheld light/small headlamp (so you don’t have to point a weaponlight at something you don’t want to destroy)
-nav aids (map/compass/gps, if applicable or unless already worn with clothing)
-Other munitions (bang/smoke/frag, if available or applicable)
If there’s room left on the chosen piece of LBE after that, then some ancillaries like an extra set of batteries for lights/optics, something to write/sketch on, and maybe some small energy snacks.
Put all that basic stuff on your chosen LBE, put your water and whatever other supplies/equipment/clothing for 1 day in your daypack (like Hellokitty said) and you’re halfway to meeting whatever mission requirements will pop up in the future, or to take to any class and shake your kit setup down.
Once this BASIC loadout has all been shaken down and/or tweaked to your liking, THEN you can revisit more specific mission parameters with other questions like “what does this mission require IN ADDITION to what I already have set up?” Or “what does this mission require that my current gear list does NOT meet?” Or “Is my daypack sufficient for this mission or do I need a bigger pack now?”
Anyway, I’m probably regurgitating what everyone else has said here a bit at this point, but focusing on 1 piece of LBE and a basic do-all loadout is what helped me re-focus when I was feeling overwhelmed with “all the stuff” I felt I had to carry or else I wasn’t doing something right…so I thought I’d share.
Sometimes ditching things and simplifying not only frees up pounds, it also frees up your mind.
February 13, 2020 at 3:13 am #139931wheelseeParticipant
I’ve been down your road before (and still today, sometimes). One word comes to mind -STOP! How much training have you done? With Max??
I was one who bought what I THOUGHT I needed. THEN I took a class with Max. 4 years later, and I STILL find myself buying stuff I shouldn’t (read “didn’t know what I didn’t know “).
Watch Max’s videos THEN GO TRAIN with Max. Your wallet will thank me.
February 13, 2020 at 7:53 am #139948DiznNCParticipant
Hey man the goal is to empty your wallet. Can’t take it with ya.
February 13, 2020 at 9:41 am #139956
None of this reflects negatively on you at all. Everyone that didnt serve in infantry unit are going down the same road. Most of us have spent way too much money over the years to get where we are. We are only trying to save you some $$.
I would stick with Max’s suggestions on the fight light concept. Get a fighting loadout set up and then focus on training as much ad you can afford. A guy with lots of training and a Chinese chest rig is more dangerous than someone with little training and all the latest gear.
HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
HEAT 2 (CP) X1
February 13, 2020 at 9:58 am #139959
February 13, 2020 at 9:59 am #139960
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