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    • #67930
      DiznNC
      Participant

        You know, here’s the difference between a liberal and a conservative. When I left Kali, and moved to NC, I said, finally I can get my CCW. That’s freedom. When my brother-in-law left Missouri and moved to Colorado, he said, finally, I can grow my own dope. That’s freedom. (Now, you might be surprised to find out that I’m not opposed to dope. In fact I’m actually for legalizing it and ending this silly prohibition II that has been an abject failure, and created these huge drug cartels.) But the thing is, growing your own dope, or whatever makes you happy, can only occur if somebody else stands security. While you dance nekid in the barnyard, or whatever. Somebody has to stand watch and keep the gooblins from bashing in your skull and taking your stash.

        I think nothing could illustrate the polarization of this country more. We grew up roughly at the same time, with him being in the new Aquarius generation, and me being a throw-back to the previous one. He avoided the draft like the plague, I was disappointed I missed the war by a year.

        The problem lies in the raw numbers. His type out-numbers mine by about 9-to-1. So you can all see where this is headed. Or, “you don’t need a weatherman to see which way the wind is blowin'”.

        So think about that one for a moment. If you up-rooted from where you are, and moved to another AO, what is it, that you would “finally” be able to do? What really defines you as a person, that is such a priority for you, that you are now feeling happiness and contentment.

        For my B-I-L, it’s being high with dope you grew yourself. Dude. For me it’s being able to (legally) carry a gun for self-defense.

        If I was to move again, it would be to a small rural community somewhere, where the folks are all (or mostly) like-minded concerning freedom, and are working hard to be self-sufficient. I would be growing things, but it wouldn’t be Panama Red. Or whatever.

      • #67931
        Roadkill
        Participant

          The sheep have never liked the sheepdog.

        • #67932
          DiznNC
          Participant

            Yeah so true. When I was dating his sister, I was in the reserves, and used to get all sorts of static from him and his wife. “Why do you want to go out and kill people?” type of stuff. When you could sit at home and roll a big fatty I suppose. Like we should all just light up and get along, man.

          • #67933
            Brian from Georgia
            Participant

              So think about that one for a moment. If you up-rooted from where you are, and moved to another AO, what is it, that you would “finally” be able to do?

              To live free of property taxes. You know, where I could actually own my land in no uncertain terms, without fear of extortion or theft from the state. Same goes for any kind of wealth.

              To live in a place where I could drive a car without a seat belt, ride a motorcycle without a helmet, carry a gun without a license, run a business without taxes or license, add on to my house without a building permit, send e-mail or phone call without fear of it being intercepted… I could go on for days.

              We are far, far from free.

            • #67934
              HiDesertRat
              Participant

                Diz, I concur with your philosophy. Legalize it, all of it as a matter of fact. Take the profit out of it, and the cartels will dry up, and with it, the bloated law enforcement/prison system developed by the ‘war on drugs’ a complete failure for 40 years. Empty the prison system of all the non violent folks also, waste of money. Yeah, some folks will go overboard and o.d. & die. Treat the users if they want help, if they die, it cleans the gene pool. But they had their choice of freedom. I hear you on the kali move. I left, went to NV, got my CCW immediately. 4 years later, saw too many x-kali types coming in, wanting to change things (wtf! wanna change NV into kali 2.0) so off to Idaho. Got my CCW there, and now in July, won’t need one anymore, constitutional state now. The only things I think that need to be outlawed are stupid people and politicians, but I am being redundant.

              • #67935
                hellokitty
                Participant

                  You shoulda told them… I don’t want to kill people, just you.

                  HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
                  HEAT 2 (CP) X1
                  FOF X3
                  OPFOR X2
                  CLC X2
                  RIFLEMAN

                • #67936
                  Anonymous
                  Inactive

                    As the old libertarian quip goes, “I support the right of gay married couples to protect their marijuana plants with AR-15s.” Or however they say it.

                    State interference is state interference, whether it’s over someone wanting to choose how he alters his mind or whether he chooses how he defends his home, though hopefully not both at the same time. ;-) Just as long as you’re not interfering with anyone else’s liberty or security, the state shouldn’t care. The only problem is that the folks that want to end the drug war are liberals that simultaneously want to disarm the civilian population, and the folks that want to protect my right to bear arms are the same conservatives who feel the need to have the state protect me from myself via a never-ending drug war and the police state that follows. I consider myself a libertarian because that’s the only position I’ve encountered that seems logically consistent. It’s either individual liberty, or it’s not.

                    That being said, I’d worry about ensuring our existing liberties are intact before pursuing further liberties (drug legalization and regulation and the like). Trading one liberty for another with the state doesn’t make you more free, just less, because you’ve given the state the precedent to regulate liberty for you.

                    Here in the Maryland Soviet Socialist Republic, we have neither legal concealed carry (unless you know State Troopers, because nepotism) or legal weed, total bummer here, you can’t light up with a bowl or an “assault weapon”. :unsure:

                  • #67937
                    Anonymous
                    Inactive

                      Because this conversation totally makes me think of this:

                    • #67938
                      Corvette
                      Participant

                        Here in Alaska you can get smoked up and have an assault rifle. Both cash and carry…(other then the NICS)..

                        The only smoke that goes in my chest is camp fire smoke..
                        I prefer reality.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTyJ3QruoaM

                        Bergmann

                      • #67939
                        DiznNC
                        Participant

                          Love the rabbii clip (is that the right plural?).

                          Yeah, Colorado. Oy Veh. You can grow dope, but you can’t have 30-rd mags, or Magpul for that matter. This is partially my fault. All my old neighbors have migrated there.

                        • #67940
                          Lineman
                          Participant

                            We would welcome you here in MT Diz :good: …The reality is without a Community that believes in Liberty you can never really be truly free because you will always have the threat of the state hanging over your head…Sure you can have the fantasy of saying your free and shit you might even are doing things that are against the law but you still have that threat over your head and one nosy neighbor and your screwed with the punishment probably exaggerated because you were going against the state…Some people think numbers don’t matter but they are delusional…

                          • #67941
                            gramma
                            Participant

                              Diz, I’m currently trying to make that decision. I have a small property in a really rural remote place near (but not close to) Max’s training area. County has a declining and aging population. If you don’t know how to do things – and don’t have willing help – you’re going to have a hard time of things. That said, that is the philosophy up there.

                              I like NC, really I do. But where I am now, swells with tourists in the summer – and they bring all the negative stuff of what they’re “escaping” with them. I want to go where most people are afraid to get out of their cars, because they’re unfamiliar with that kind of wilderness and there’s no cell signal… and they’re sure they hear banjo music in the air.

                              :yes:

                            • #67942
                              jane
                              Participant

                                I think what you guys are looking for can be found in Alaska, like Bergmann said. No taxes at all if you settle in the unorganized borough, i.e. no property taxes.

                                I agree, it is getting to be the time in which it is best to be off the grid… which means off the road system. You want to get a fly-in or boat in only place. How about this one…. no taxes, it is in unincorporated borough, fly-in only… you won’t have the golden hordes raiding and pillaging your place, maybe just an occasional brown bear:

                                http://www.landsofalaska.com/property/MANKOMEN-Valdez-Alaska-99588/2886214

                              • #67943
                                DiznNC
                                Participant

                                  Don’t tempt me. I just may do it. We are retiring soon and it’s decision time. I can’t tell you how sick and tired I am of this current society and it’s rotten culture.

                                  “Turn me loose, set me free, somewhere in the middle of Montana…”

                                • #67944
                                  Corvette
                                  Participant

                                    This place aint no better…and it gets worse every year. ppl come here to get away from the shit, the problem is 99% of them are their own problem and just bring it all right up here with them… Crime is sky rocketing. You can literally see the change and its not just something you hear about on the news happening to others….

                                    Im fixen to leave..i wanna go back to Appalachia..

                                    Bergmann

                                  • #67945
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      In reality there is no great place to move to, sure some areas are better than others, but as stated there are too many problems that come with many of the people moving.

                                      There are many States that I consider to be occupied territory that I wouldn’t even drive through.

                                    • #67946
                                      Lineman
                                      Participant

                                        Really I love my area…Sure it could be freer but thats why I try and recruit more Liberty Folk.. Why can’t anyone see that Patriots need to be moving to like minded areas…The Marxist are able to do that and then they turn that area into something that is conducive to their lifestyle… We as Patriot’s want to have more Liberty and less oppression correct… How do we go about doing that unless we have the numbers to put that plan in place…Do we really think that Liberty can be realized when you are surrounded by statist…Why does it take pain, suffering or hardships before people wake up and see that the greatest chance of survival comes when you are surrounded by those who think like you do…And Diz if you need any info on anything just PM me…

                                      • #67947
                                        jane
                                        Participant

                                          This place aint no better…and it gets worse every year. ppl come here to get away from the shit, the problem is 99% of them are their own problem and just bring it all right up here with them… Crime is sky rocketing. You can literally see the change and its not just something you hear about on the news happening to others….

                                          Heh…. That’s exactly what my dad said when he moved the family down to the lower 48…. And now I spend my summers up there wishing I was still living there… :wacko:

                                        • #67948
                                          HiDesertRat
                                          Participant

                                            …so it would seem no one currently lives in Shangri-La as it no longer exists. Plan B seems to be the MVT theme thinking of making your home/community where you are physically, and through integrity, leading by example and hard work, make it your home for everyone who shares your ideals. Is there an alternative to that? I do not see it.

                                          • #67949
                                            DiznNC
                                            Participant

                                              Much to think about. Good discussion guys.

                                            • #67950
                                              Lineman
                                              Participant

                                                …so it would seem no one currently lives in Shangri-La as it no longer exists. Plan B seems to be the MVT theme thinking of making your home/community where you are physically, and through integrity, leading by example and hard work, make it your home for everyone who shares your ideals. Is there an alternative to that? I do not see it…

                                                Ok I disagree with your statement in that if you could actually do that don’t you think that already would of been accomplished… Ive known people that have been trying that for years and havent had any luck so they gave up trying… Yes there is an alternative that has been very successful for the left… Read what I wrote above…If you move to an area that is self sufficient, sustainable, and secure what are you losing by doing that even if no one else follows you…If anyone wants to discuss it in private just PM me…

                                              • #67951
                                                HiDesertRat
                                                Participant

                                                  Lineman,

                                                  I was speaking in generalities. Note that both Bergmann and G.W.N.S.
                                                  are of the opinion, to quote both:

                                                  ” This place aint no better…and it gets worse every year. ppl come here to get away from the shit, the problem is 99% of them are their own problem and just bring it all right up here with them… Crime is sky rocketing. You can literally see the change and its not just something you hear about on the news happening to others….”

                                                  and…”In reality there is no great place to move to, sure some areas are better than others, but as stated there are too many problems that come with many of the people moving.”

                                                  It seems that the world has receded from itself, not geographically but politically and ideologically. Yes, there are some places that have a higher preponderance of attributes that we all seek than other areas, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to discern these areas and then they too become what we are escaping from. At some point after careful deliberation one must decide to ‘make a stand’ somewhere. A plant without roots does not thrive, nor do people. That thought was my intention to put forth. There is no pancea nor Shangri-La anywhere excepting some archipeligos that existence would be quite tedious and difficult to survive in let alone get to. We have to live somewhere and that choice is a summation of all that our mental faculties and physical resources can muster to achieve the goal that we decide upon. The world as we know, can be quite inhospitable and we must live, endure and thrive in what we are provided, to the best of our abilities. Someone smarter than me said something to the effect that mankind is a ‘yeasty ferment’ and we are part of it, the struggle of life I suppose amongst/against the hoards. We just have to make a choice and then just live the best we are able.

                                                • #67952
                                                  Lineman
                                                  Participant

                                                    So why not make a stand in an area that has the quality’s I mentioned surrounded by others who believe like we do…What is wrong with that proposal…Bergmann lives in Alaska which has a lot of cons one of the major ones is that they have to import a lot of stuff and if that stopped life would turn to shit awful fast…GWNS lives in Florida which ranks 4th in population but 23 in land mass…So yea probably not going to get people who are Preparedness minded that love Liberty to move to a place like that…I don’t know anymore…People love to talk about bug out bags and bug out vehicles but the thing that would benefit them the most(moving out of bad areas before trouble hits)/rarely gets discussed…Sad That…

                                                  • #67953
                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                    Moderator

                                                      People chose to live where they do for a variety of reasons. Some it’s family and friends, others their job, and still others did move there because it was/is representative to there ideals.

                                                      Lineman I’ve been to Montana, it has some things going for it, but it is hardly some ultimate bastion of liberty and self reliance even though those ideals are embraced by some.

                                                      The idea of the so called American Redoubt and the Appalachian Redoubt both have merit, but there are obstacles too.

                                                      I have talked about North American Swamps as potential Redoubts, try talking to some true Cajuns in the Bayous and you will realize that they have lived in a Redoubt long before James Wesley, Rawles ever brought up such an idea.

                                                      As far as Florida is concerned there is more here than Disney World!

                                                      You have heard the term “Cracker,” but do you know anything about some of it’s origins?

                                                      Florida cracker refers to colonial-era English and American pioneer settlers and their descendants in what is now the state of Florida. The first of these arrived in 1763 after Spain traded Florida to Great Britain following the latter’s victory over France in the Seven Years’ War.

                                                      The term “cracker” was in use during the Elizabethan era to describe braggarts. The original root of this is the Middle English word crack, meaning “entertaining conversation” (One may be said to “crack” a joke); this term and the Gaelicized spelling “craic” are still in use in Northern England, Ireland and Scotland. It is documented in William Shakespeare’s King John (1595): “What cracker is this … that deafes our ears / With this abundance of superfluous breath?”

                                                      By the 1760s, the English, both at home and in the American colonies, applied the term “cracker” to Scots-Irish and English American settlers of the remote southern back country, as noted in a letter to the Earl of Dartmouth: “I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascals on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode.” The word was later associated with the cowboys of Georgia and Florida, many of them descendants of those early frontiersmen who had migrated South.

                                                      The Florida “cowhunter” or “cracker cowboy” of the 19th and early 20th centuries was distinct from the Spanish vaquero and the Western cowboy. Florida cowboys did not use lassos to herd or capture cattle. Their primary tools were cow whips and dogs. Florida cattle and horses were smaller than the western breeds.

                                                      Among some Floridians, the term is used as a proud or jocular self-description. Since the huge influx of new residents into Florida in the late 20th and early 21st centuries, from the northern parts of the United States and from Mexico and Latin America, the term “Florida Cracker” is used informally by some Floridians to indicate that their families have lived in the state for many generations. It is considered a source of pride to be descended from “frontier people who did not just live, but flourished in a time before air conditioning, mosquito repellent, and screens.”

                                                      Anyway the above is a lot of background, but points out that there is a part of Florida that still hangs onto these ideals and is into self reliance.


                                                      Old Florida flag.

                                                      I am here to tell you that the Florida Cracker Redoubt is alive and well despite it’s lack of an official name.

                                                      We have plenty of obstacles too, but it’s home!

                                                      For now at least.

                                                    • #67954
                                                      jane
                                                      Participant

                                                        So why not make a stand in an area that has the quality’s I mentioned surrounded by others who believe like we do…What is wrong with that proposal…Bergmann lives in Alaska which has a lot of cons one of the major ones is that they have to import a lot of stuff and if that stopped life would turn to shit awful fast…

                                                        People have lived in AK for thousands of years before they “imported” anything. In fact, I have friends who live there who are almost totally self-sufficient – if the whole world collapsed tomorrow they probably wouldn’t even know it. One such couple lives completely off the grid – fly in only, they hunt for their meat, grow a huge garden, and even make their own furniture and other stuff they need for living. The last time they were to the city (“city” = Anchorage) was maybe 30 years ago. They have no power, no running water, no motor vehicles of any kind (walk 10 miles each way to another airstrip to get the mail once a week). The only things they need from the outside are maybe ammo and some tools, for which they have a stockpile anyway. How long would a total collapse situation last before they ran out of these things? Another 30 years?

                                                        Remember that Russian family that was found in remote Siberia in the 1970s who was living there since the czar’s days? When they were found, they had no knowledge that the czar was overthrown many decades earlier!

                                                      • #67955
                                                        Lineman
                                                        Participant

                                                          It’s ironic how you guys always want to attack the location I picked or go off on some rant of what Florida was like in the 1700s which had really nothing to do with the point I was trying to make…Does anyone have a point on what I said about banding together and forming Patriot Community’s.. I don’t care where you do it at but if you want people to come to your area that are Liberty and Self sufficient minded then it might be a good idea to be in a place that is desirable for that…I told people before and I will say it again if you want to form a Patriot Community where your at because you think it’s the best for all situations if you can show me with facts why it’s better I will move to you…

                                                        • #67956
                                                          RRS
                                                          Participant

                                                            GWNS A relation of mine was a Cracker and proud of it, certainly before air conditioning Florida citizen. He grew up pre WW II in the central part of the state listening to the panthers howl or whatever they do there. Then he served in the Navy at Okinawa on a destroyer.

                                                          • #67957
                                                            DiznNC
                                                            Participant

                                                              I’m beginning to think in terms of topography versus geography. By that I mean looking for the inaccessible places where modern technology and government power have trouble getting into. It might be a little pocket or a vast track, but it’s not necessarily one area of the country, like “out west”, rather the remote areas scattered throughout the countryside. Very similar to the “small town” concept versus the big urban areas.

                                                              Now don’t get me wrong, the thought of living out in the boondocks out west somewhere would be a dream come true. But the reality of it is I may have to find somewhere else, wherever I happen to be.

                                                              The country truly has become polarized, and these little “enclaves” of either species have moved to places like Colorado and the like. You’re never going to be too far away from your polar opposites, you just need to find your own tribe in some out of the way location.

                                                              Even in the southern states, you have these little enclaves of idiots, my own Charlotte as a perfect example. Where an hour from downtown, you have real country folks. Two hours south and you’re definitely in the woods.

                                                              Getting back to the topography, you have lowland swamps, hill country, and the mountains, in this neck of the woods. They are all more or less forested with pretty good overhead cover. I think the trick is going to be to learn how to live in these areas, whatever is closest to you, at least initially, and then take it from there.

                                                              We all know the large urban areas are going to be death traps. You could almost draw concentric rings around them and then calculate how far the hood rats might get out. Just like the old nuclear strike maps.

                                                              So the trick might be to find somewhere, relatively close, but far enough away from the “fall out” areas, to set up shop. With perhaps a “tribe” of a few like-minded people around, and some kind of topography that makes access difficult.

                                                              I am kind of partial to the mountains these days.

                                                            • #67958
                                                              Lineman
                                                              Participant

                                                                Why do you think I picked where I am at Diz… Look I’ve worked all over this country and studied where I wanted to be for 10 years…The place I picked seemed to me that it fit all the criteria I had for a self sufficient,sustaining, and secure…I’m surrounded by people who are very conservative and for the most part are self sufficient… Why is it a bad thing to want others to have the same peace I have…Everyone always wants to attack it seems like these days…

                                                              • #67959
                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                Moderator

                                                                  It’s ironic how you guys always want to attack the location I picked or go off on some rant of what Florida was like in the 1700s which had really nothing to do with the point I was trying to make…

                                                                  I don’t think anyone attacked any location and you obviously missed the point of why people make their choices.

                                                                  Does anyone have a point on what I said about banding together and forming Patriot Community’s.

                                                                  There seems to be some that are doing this, but depending on what type of event happens, it could be a great move or it could be making one big target that gets pummeled from standoff distance.

                                                                  …if you can show me with facts why it’s better I will move to you…

                                                                  People choose different areas for; as noted, a variety of reasons and there is good and bad for all choices.

                                                                  My choice of Florida is right for me, but is not right for many others.

                                                                  To be frank, someone from Montana has little to offer in the swamps of Florida! (unless you grew up in the swamp)

                                                                  GWNS A relation of mine was a Cracker and proud of it…

                                                                  It’s a important part of Florida culture that few are aware of.

                                                                  By that I mean looking for the inaccessible places where modern technology and government power have trouble getting into. It might be a little pocket or a vast track, but it’s not necessarily one area of the country, like “out west”, rather the remote areas scattered throughout the countryside. Very similar to the “small town” concept versus the big urban areas.

                                                                  That’s why I choose the swamp.

                                                                  I seriously considered Wyoming when I retired, it’s some real beautiful country and decent people for the most part.

                                                                • #67960
                                                                  Max
                                                                  Keymaster

                                                                    This place aint no better…and it gets worse every year. ppl come here to get away from the shit, the problem is 99% of them are their own problem and just bring it all right up here with them… Crime is sky rocketing. You can literally see the change and its not just something you hear about on the news happening to others….

                                                                    Heh…. That’s exactly what my dad said when he moved the family down to the lower 48…. And now I spend my summers up there wishing I was still living there… :wacko:

                                                                    Wasnt this the idea behind both the Free New Hampshire movement and the American Redoubt out in Wyoming and Montana area? Both concepts revolved around conglomerating Liberty minded people in a specific region, then integrating into local political structures to push freedomcentric laws. Basically the reverse of what people from NY and NJ are doing to us here in PA.

                                                                  • #67961
                                                                    Lineman
                                                                    Participant
                                                                    • #67962
                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                      Moderator

                                                                        Income Tax is a big negative for me!

                                                                        Only seven states lack an income tax altogether. They are:

                                                                        Alaska
                                                                        Florida
                                                                        Nevada
                                                                        South Dakota
                                                                        Texas
                                                                        Washington
                                                                        Wyoming

                                                                        Nevada and Washington aren’t even a consideration for me so that leaves five States to choose from.

                                                                      • #67963
                                                                        Lineman
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          Have you ever figured up what you pay in sales tax compared to what you pay in state income tax…
                                                                          Montana has no sales tax and Bracketed state income tax from 1% to 6.9%

                                                                        • #67964
                                                                          Corvette
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            Most of Alaska has no sales tax either..

                                                                            Bergmann

                                                                          • #67965
                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                            Moderator

                                                                              States With The Lowest Taxes

                                                                              To rank the state’s tax burdens, the Tax Foundation compared the total taxes that state residents pay as a percentage of per capita income. Included in the total taxes are local taxes such as property taxes and local sales taxes. The states whose residents pay the least in taxes are:

                                                                              Alaska at 6.4% of income
                                                                              Nevada at 6.6% of income
                                                                              Wyoming at 7% of income
                                                                              Florida at 7.4% of income
                                                                              New Hampshire at 7.6% of income

                                                                              Nevada and New Hampshire are not considerations, so you have my top three States Alaska, Wyoming, and Florida.

                                                                              Have you ever figured up what you pay in sales tax compared to what you pay in state income tax…

                                                                              Since most of my shopping is done online and at Military Exchanges (retired military) I pay no sales tax for the vast majority of my purchases.

                                                                            • #67966
                                                                              Lineman
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Why Not Alaska..
                                                                                A year ago, I heard one “expert” on the radio recommend Alaska as a retreat destination because it has the lowest population density of any State, and has low taxes. IMHO, he couldn’t be more wrong! The biggest problem is that from an economic standpoint, Alaska is essentially a big offshore island. Many essential items are shipped or flown in. What happens when the ships and planes stop arriving? It won’t be pretty–at least not in Alaska’s cities. (Ironically, although it is the most lightly populated state, Alaska has the second highest crime rate in the country!) Coastal Alaska is also earthquake prone. Further, you may think that because of the North Slope oil that the state will have plentiful fuel. Bzzzzzt! Wrong answer! There is insufficient refinery capacity of meet Alaska’s “domestic” needs, and insufficient transport to get refined fuels where they are needed. (Current transport is geared to distributing fuel and lubricants brought in from the Lower 48–not locally produced fuel and lubricants.) So the little fuel left in Alaska post-TEOTWAWKI will be jealously guarded–doubtless saved for critical tasks like running farm tractors and chain saws. So there will be virtually none available for fishing boats or between-town commerce.

                                                                                In a long term collapse, the residents of Alaska’s densely populated coastal cities will likely starve and/or freeze to death. Meanwhile, those in inland towns, albeit better fed, will be geographically isolated so that commerce with the coast will be difficult if not impossible. Bush pilots will eventually be grounded due to lack of fuel, lubricants and spare parts. The only people I foresee surviving are a few seasoned Sourdoughs and native tribe members that still have well-honed outdoor survival skills and are still capable of reverting to a self-sufficient mode. The best set up for this would be a small settlement on a clear water (non-glacial) stream with an active salmon run and a couple of productive “fish wheel” salmon traps.

                                                                                Another consideration is that the Alaska Pipeline is vulnerable if the power grid goes down. As of 2007, grid power is needed for the four giant electric pumps used to pressurize the oil pipeline. These replaced the pipeline’s original diesel-powered pumps.

                                                                                My prediction: In the event of TEOTWAWKI, the Al-Can highway will have heavy traffic with heavily-laden pickup trucks carrying beau coup gas cans, going in both directions: Greenhorns from the lower 48 thinking that Alaska is the place to be and Alaskan Citizens who realize that Alaska is not a viable place to stay in a long term Crunch.

                                                                                A SurvivalBlog Reader in Alaska Adds:

                                                                                Mr. Rawles,
                                                                                As a long-time resident of Alaska, I agree in general [with your Retreat Locales page assessment] that it’s just not a viable survival location for most people. Someone wanting to move here should carefully consider whether it would work for them. Alaska is huge, with a low population. While 275,000 people live in the Anchorage area, only 400,00 live in the rest of the state, comprised of over 1/2 million square miles. But more than 99% of the land is off limits to settlement, because it’s owned by either government or native corporations. Even if land were available, most of it is inaccessible if you can’t afford a helicopter or float plane. Much of it is treeless, windblown, and covered with ice and snow more than six months per year. When the ice finally melts, the roads buckle and heave due to the cycle of freezing and thawing. This requires expensive maintenance that would not be sustainable if TSHTF.

                                                                                The economy of Alaska is driven by oil income and government spending, both of which would cease if the U.S. economy collapsed. There is very little local manufacturing capability. Sadly, even most natives have lost the ability to live off the land, due to income from various government programs and business ventures.

                                                                                Home heating is a huge expense in Alaska; $6,000 or more per winter for some households. Even if you have a source of wood and cut it yourself, it’s going to occupy a lot of your time.

                                                                                On the plus side, there’s unlimited pure air and water. While wildlife isn’t as abundant as most people think, there are more than enough fish to keep everyone alive in a survival scenario. There are almost no insects to bother crops, and although the growing season is short, some vegetables do very well in the long daylight hours in summer. Alaska has one of the best concealed-carry laws in the country, and most prisoners are outsourced to other states, so they would not be a problem in a collapse. Alaska has a high concentration of military and former military personnel, who generally have a sound grasp of Constitutional issues.

                                                                                Alaskans understand survival. Many who live in villages or in the bush have no running water. Some have no electricity. Alaska is a great place to practice survival skills. But you might not want to stay after TSHTF unless you’re in extremely good health, you tolerate cold well, and you’re prepared to do the hard work it would take to survive in a hostile environment. – K.L. in Alaska

                                                                              • #67967
                                                                                Lineman
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Well GWNS I guess I could break the law as well and not pay my state income tax which is minimal anyway because I have a lot of write offs but that just isn’t what I want to do at the time…
                                                                                  http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/consumer.html
                                                                                  Of course you already knew that right…

                                                                                • #67968
                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                    Oh no you caught me (and 99% of other online purchasers)! ;-)

                                                                                    Of course most of my shopping is at the Exchange and Commissary where I legally shop tax free.

                                                                                    I think the real question is why do you feel the need to convince us to move to your choice? :unsure:

                                                                                    Some of us have made a conscious rational decision to be where we are.

                                                                                    Is that not acceptable in your version of Rightful Liberty in the American Redoubt?

                                                                                    Do you feel you somehow know whats the correct course for me?

                                                                                  • #67969
                                                                                    Corvette
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Well GWNS I guess I could break the law as well and not pay my state income tax which is minimal anyway because I have a lot of write offs but that just isn’t what I want to do at the time…
                                                                                      http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/consumer.html
                                                                                      Of course you already knew that right…

                                                                                      dick reply…

                                                                                    • #67970
                                                                                      Lineman
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        You were disagreeing with me based on you not paying any sales tax so the state income tax applied to you more…But you stated you were doing most of your shopping online… At least have the honesty and decency to admit maybe that wasn’t the best example.. Or not…Why do I feel the need probably the same reason Max tries to convince others to come to his training sessions… Of course I’m not making any money off of anyone moving so maybe not quite the same motivation;) The thing is GWNS is the country getting better or worse and is there still a chance for Patriots to make a stand somewhere… I believe it’s getting worse and yes I think there is still time for rallying Patriot’s to band together and make a stand… If you don’t agree no worries no one is forcing you to do anything… One thought I do understand Maxs frustration with very few wanting to change things and better themselves….

                                                                                      • #67971
                                                                                        Lineman
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          Why was that a dick reply Bergmann…He wasn’t being honest with his point on sales tax not applying to him and I pointed it out…Why is the truth a dick reply…

                                                                                        • #67972
                                                                                          Lineman
                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                            Can we all just agree that being with friends and neighbors that love Liberty is better than being alone surrounded by statist…

                                                                                          • #67973
                                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                            Moderator

                                                                                              you not paying any sales tax

                                                                                              I pay no sales tax for the vast majority of my purchases.

                                                                                              But you stated you were doing most of your shopping online…

                                                                                              Since most of my shopping is done online and at Military Exchanges (retired military) I pay no sales tax for the vast majority of my purchases.

                                                                                              One thought I do understand Maxs frustration with very few wanting to change things and better themselves

                                                                                              Here is the problem! You come across as only your solution meets this criteria. There are many possible solutions beyond yours.

                                                                                              his point on sales tax not applying to him

                                                                                              Of course most of my shopping is at the Exchange and Commissary where I legally shop tax free.

                                                                                            • #67974
                                                                                              Lineman
                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                So put your solutions out there that have worked historically for people… I based my solution on what has worked very successfully for the left and I think that we can apply for Freefor… I thought this is what this forum was for to present ideas that might help us survive and thrive in the coming hard times…

                                                                                              • #67975
                                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                  present ideas that might help us survive and thrive in the coming hard times…

                                                                                                  Present ideas, not imply your solution is the only one!

                                                                                                  There is a difference. :yes:

                                                                                                • #67976
                                                                                                  Lineman
                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                    As soon as you can present a better one that’s based on fact then I will go with that one…I’m always looking for a better solution… I’m sure Max would tell you if there was a better way to train you he would be doing it…At this time this is the best one I can come up with to further Liberty… Can you prove me wrong and why?

                                                                                                  • #67977
                                                                                                    gramma
                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                      Diz, there ARE pockets with low-tech “advantages”. I found one. (And just because this is the internet, and I worry about carrying capacity of the place – I won’t give much location info away here. PM me, instead.)

                                                                                                      Additionally, the people who already live there are about as self-sufficient and liberty-minded as you’ll find anywhere in the country.

                                                                                                    • #67978
                                                                                                      Robert
                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                        Doesn’t Montana have a really high amount of missile bases- aka nuclear targets, and very harsh winters? How much food are you producing now? How long is the growing season?

                                                                                                        Biggest drawbacks to those northwestern areas being the short growing season IMO. You got to eat.

                                                                                                        Less population density is a plus for some of those areas, but that’s largely it.

                                                                                                        “Redoubt” is a takeoff of “General Ben Raines” idea of “Tri States” back in the old Out of the Ashes series. Like Soloman said “Their is nothing new under the sun…” Nothing new there….

                                                                                                      • #67979
                                                                                                        Lineman
                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                          Well maybe if you had studied where I lived you wouldn’t have had to ask those questions… It’s ironic to me after 7 days no one has been able to come up with a better solution than what I was advocating of Patriot’s moving to certain locations to be able to live a freer existence… Examples would be elimating taxes that are forced upon you like income, property, corporate, elimating regulations and rules that hinder living a free life, being able to do to your property what you please as long as it’s not harming others, neighbors that you can rely on, etc…But yet again attack the location I chose instead of coming up with a better solution to further Liberty…Even if you came at me and said I agree with your premise but my location is better and here is why then I could understand that and have a conversation of the pros and cons of both spots and if you could convince me then I would consider moving…Highly doubtful though since Ive done a lot of homework on my area…Robert I live in Bitterroot Valley which is called the banana belt of MT so yes you grow most crops here some require a greenhouse to help start them…Most of the missile silo are in eastern MT so even if they are targeted prevailing winds will take the fallout to the east…Yep I agree nothing new but people being people seem to forget the past and need reminding from time to time…

                                                                                                        • #67980
                                                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                          Moderator

                                                                                                            Lineman, enough with the attitude.

                                                                                                            You have ignored my clear points demonstrating you weren’t comprehending what I clearly wrote and intended.

                                                                                                            Then immediately you go on the defensive over Robert’s post.

                                                                                                            Doesn’t Montana have a really high amount of missile bases- aka nuclear targets, and very harsh winters? How much food are you producing now? How long is the growing season?

                                                                                                            This was a legitimate question…

                                                                                                            Well maybe if you had studied…

                                                                                                            yet you respond with this.

                                                                                                            It’s ironic to me after 7 days no one has been able to come up with a better solution than what I was advocating…

                                                                                                            Have you considered maybe no one want to deal with your attitude?

                                                                                                            Whether intentional or not you are coming across as a troll.

                                                                                                            Put more thought into how you respond and stop thinking that every post is an attack on you or your ideas.

                                                                                                            Do not continue this or you will be moderated.

                                                                                                            Disagreement is fine, but this assumption that only you have the answers is not.

                                                                                                          • #67981
                                                                                                            Max
                                                                                                            Keymaster

                                                                                                              Lineman, your “solution” is only theory to begin with. It has worked for the left, so it could work for the right as well.

                                                                                                              People have their own reasons for being where they are. I’m in Missouri because its currently “good enough”. My family is here. We’ve got land here. At some point in time, as “free” as I want to be.. I’ve got a responsibility to take care of them as they continually age.
                                                                                                              Thats my choice. But it does limit me from moving anywhere in the short term.

                                                                                                            • #67982
                                                                                                              DiznNC
                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                Everyone, take a knee, and relax. Guys (and gals) have different opinions on things, no need for agreement. Accept differences of opinion as what they are. Folks have differences in their estimate of the situation and there for plan differently. Sharing your ideas is fine. I think we get hung up on “proving” our views, when obviously opinions vary.

                                                                                                                I think we should just state our case, present “proof” as necessary, and then leave it there. Everyone doesn’t have to agree. No need to get hot under the collar because someone doesn’t agree with you. No need to get defensive either. You believe what you believe, based on your best estimate of the sit. You explain this to others (if you want). They agree or not. Everyone move on. Now you may later examine their thoughts and decide whether to modify your estimate, or not. Your choice.

                                                                                                                I think we’ve done a pretty good job here, compared to other websites. I like to hear all of your thoughts. So everyone take a breath, un-clinch your sphincters, and carry on.

                                                                                                              • #67983
                                                                                                                DiznNC
                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                  That being said, here’s some more considerations. I may think that one COA is best in theory, however, in reality I take another. Lots of reasons for this. Economics gets a vote. Lot of folks simply can’t afford to make the move they’d like to do. Or other factors come into play. You may have a mate or other family that do not agree with your priorities. They get a vote too.

                                                                                                                  Now you can call me pussy-whipped, or whatever, but my wife isn’t ready to quit her job, pull up stakes, and move to: wherever, let’s say a good retreat somewhere. And quite frankly, I’m not either. There are many skills sets, supplies, and equipment I need to own before I’m even ready for that. So call me a wanna-be.

                                                                                                                  So let’s all be honest here. Some have made the move, and I commend them. Some have not, for a variety of reasons. Myself included.

                                                                                                                  When we discuss these things, I can’t help but wonder if we aren’t trying to justify our actions, just a little bit. I’ll admit it, I have.

                                                                                                                  Keep this in mind as we discuss this stuff. We’re not all going to pick the same retreat location. We’re not all gonna make the decision to move right now. But we all have the same goal. We want to be free men. Some are farther along that path than others.

                                                                                                                • #67984
                                                                                                                  Lineman
                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                    GWNS if he would of left it at those questions I wouldn’t of had a problem with it but when he threw in this statement “Less population density is a plus for some of those areas, but that’s largely it.” that made it an attack in my opinion… Like I wasn’t smart enough to figure out that you need more than just low population to survive… Maybe someday we will be able all get together and discuss it over a campfire…

                                                                                                                  • #67985
                                                                                                                    Robert
                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                      Why I choose the Southeast-

                                                                                                                      First and foremost I was already in the area, living in N. Florida. I wanted some place within 3-5 hour drive of my current location. Why? Because this sort of thing takes TIME and you have to be willing to give it a LOT of your time if you are going to TRULY develop a retreat. Also, this area was close enough to make a realistic bug out if it became necessary before I moved here full time. Due to the closeness I was able to leave Fridays after work, get up here and stay with friends (before building some place to live) and then work on my place all weekend, not having to leave till Sunday afternoon due to the relatively short travel time.

                                                                                                                      If I had picked a spot on the other side of the country, none of that would have been possible.

                                                                                                                      Further, family was in the area and besides the family issues that brought connections to help with building, the borrowing of some heavy equipment from time to time, etc. Instead of paying $5K for someone to dig me a pond (which I didn’t have), I learned to use an excavator and dug one myself in a weekend. If I had picked a place in outer mongolia I doubt I would have known anyone there that had access to large equipment, etc.

                                                                                                                      Knowing someone in the area, actually knowing as in trusting them, not some schmoe you met once on the net- allowed me to worry less about my place while I was away during the week, another big factor.

                                                                                                                      The location itself fit all my other criteria and the criteria most people use for determining good survival retreat locations-
                                                                                                                      1. Long growing season- year round here, almost have year round natural grass some years for cattle as well.
                                                                                                                      2. Low population density- less than 10K people in each of the four counties around us. Roughly two hours to any large cities.
                                                                                                                      3. Nuclear targets- Valdosta Moody AFB to the southwest (2 hours), not probably in our normal line but could be as far as fallout goes. Nothing close as far as nuke targets. I assume anyone serious about this subject will have a shelter even if it’s just something in the basement.
                                                                                                                      4. Agricultural and industrial base- can’t really be all just one way, needs to have a decent mix.
                                                                                                                      5. Good mix of demographics.
                                                                                                                      6. Places to hide, movement opportunities. Hills, mountains, swamps, etc.
                                                                                                                      7. Cultural makeup- heavily liberal areas obviously are bad. Don’t discount the californicate hippies buying up and taking over “quaint little mountain towns” out west. These types ALWAYS bring their “values” with them. Anyone I’ve ever talked to from Southern Oregon bitches about californians moving there and ruining the culture. In North Florida it was the people from NJ and NY (sorry guys but it’s true).
                                                                                                                      8. Good gun laws, a hunting or gun related culture. Every bubba owns a hunting rifle and an AR down this way.
                                                                                                                      9. Hot/cold- a place wherein you won’t have to spend two months of the year cutting firewood just to make it through the winter. I remember helping a group in Vermont one time and visiting their place. They had about a dozen of the younger guys cutting firewood and had quite the nice setup for it. I asked them how many cords they needed a year- 15 cords of wood a year per house. And they didn’t live there full time yet….. That’s a lot of logistics and a lot of manpower. The flip side being when their is four feet of snow on the ground their will be less “trash” out trying to cause problems. No one was likely to hike 10 miles up an impassable road with four foot of snow to get to them.

                                                                                                                      A lot of “bad” in the criteria can be used to your advantage as well. For example, let’s say someone lives in the center of the country or downwind from a lot of military targets out west. Worst case ground strikes everywhere, tons of fallout. If dude has a shelter with a PF of 1,000 and is well stocked, he can sit it out for a month or so, come back up and probably find he has few people left to compete for resources or worry about for security. In that regard, less survivors in the area could be a good thing = less competition for resources, i.e, less security problems for you.

                                                                                                                      I think in the long term, FAMINE is going to be the major problem, as it always follows wars and upheavals. And while you can -and should- have a boatload of food in storage, ideally you want to be producing a lot of food to replenish the storehouse regularly.

                                                                                                                      Therefore my personal biggest criteria is long- as in not just 3 months- growing season and low population density.

                                                                                                                      Everyone’s criteria is going to be slightly different. And it’s a PERSONAL DECISION based on many factors but those are some of the big ones.

                                                                                                                    • #67986
                                                                                                                      Robert
                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                        GWNS if he would of left it at those questions I wouldn’t of had a problem with it but when he threw in this statement “Less population density is a plus for some of those areas, but that’s largely it.” that made it an attack in my opinion… Like I wasn’t smart enough to figure out that you need more than just low population to survive… Maybe someday we will be able all get together and discuss it over a campfire…

                                                                                                                        I would love to discuss it over a campfire, great campfire talk actually.

                                                                                                                        Sorry you took offense, your a little “sensitive” for someone who throws a lot of guff around though. You may want to realize that people often respond in kind, hence why you are seeing so many people pushing back at you in this thread. I know it’s tough on the net cause it lacks voice and tone inflection, etc.

                                                                                                                        It’s all good, calm down. What matters is that your happy and safe where you are, and others are as well. The only obvious “duh!” bad locations are big cities, I think everyone can agree on that. :good:

                                                                                                                      • #67987
                                                                                                                        hellokitty
                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                          You know there is a resource in this country that few discuss. We typically talk about SHTF location based on food resources, away from lines of drift, etc. And all of those have merit. No disagreement here. But the resource I am referring to are the US combat vets. In everyone’s community, they are there. The number of them are the highest they have been in decades. Do not overlook them. And the vast majority of them are not liberal. They may not be preppers but I guarantee that if things in this country go sideways they will be the backbone of community security.

                                                                                                                          HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
                                                                                                                          HEAT 2 (CP) X1
                                                                                                                          FOF X3
                                                                                                                          OPFOR X2
                                                                                                                          CLC X2
                                                                                                                          RIFLEMAN

                                                                                                                        • #67988
                                                                                                                          Max
                                                                                                                          Keymaster

                                                                                                                            I’m almost nervous to jump in ;-)

                                                                                                                            Hey, this isn’t the comments section on WRSA, we have a good track record here of being constructive. I think I am usually the worst offender!

                                                                                                                            However, this raises a couple of thoughts:

                                                                                                                            1) I’m a fan of those overlooked spaces that may not be in a natural ‘redoubt’ or backwater. For example, I’m in the country around Culpeper, and it’s just hundreds of back roads and lots of little farms out here. Theoretically, we are close to ‘Mordor’ but I don’t see the hordes reaching here in any significant numbers.

                                                                                                                            2) This raises the importance of ‘tribe’ (or team) as has become a popular refrain recently. I talked about sustainable community in Contact. Being on your own in the back of beyond versus near some useful kin/tribe closer to civilization?

                                                                                                                            3) I’ll just leave this here: Did Rawles ever consider the eruption of Yellowstone when he chose his redoubt…..? :wacko:

                                                                                                                            :good:

                                                                                                                          • #67989
                                                                                                                            Thomas
                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                              The caldera in Yellowstone presents a problem that is beyond the comprehension of some scientists. The destructive capacity of that volcano is well beyond the planning comprehension of most people. That event is the “worst possible course of action” for event planners.

                                                                                                                              Culpepper is located such that you could call for the assembly of the reformed 42d Battalion of Partisan Rangers and have them assembled on your door step in about 30 minutes. Props to you for picking your current location. COL Mosby liked Warrenton.

                                                                                                                              If one’s location is based on a detailed planning cycle that is process oriented and leads to COAs and a decision matrix, there is likely a professional that has that location in their gun sights. I don’t mean to diminish your decision, but very likely you are not the only one to recognize the goodness of your decision or location.

                                                                                                                              G.W.N.S. Has stated on more than one occasion that you need an IPB and planning book for your location. If you don’t have those tools already, regardless of where you are, you are not ready.

                                                                                                                              Robert started to address WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY in his post. He explained why he chose N. FL. Can we try to get through the 5Ws on our decision to further the conversation?

                                                                                                                            • #67990
                                                                                                                              Robert
                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                Robert started to address WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY in his post. He explained why he chose N. FL. Can we try to get through the 5Ws on our decision to further the conversation?

                                                                                                                                My apologies- I LEFT North Florida (St. Augustine area) to Southern FloriGabama’stan :)

                                                                                                                                Population had grown too much where I was in N. Florida and there was a lot of nuclear targets. Further there was not much room for “expansion” of food production and homesteading efforts, certainly not without a bunch of old people turned wannabe HOA nazis and D-bag county zoning a-holes that the newcomers from NJ would call at the drop of a hat when your yard wasn’t manicured weekly. Same assholes I’d bring water and blankets to during storms (that had none)- Yep I was a dumbarse that believed you could “help” sheeple in a subdivision during an emergency once also…. Thankfully I learned my lessons during power outages and hurricanes and not anything too serious.

                                                                                                                                Up here, you give a neighbor or someone in the area a blanket you’ll liable to get it back washed and folded with some fresh veggies, versus never getting it back and then having county zoning show up cause you have an extra car in your driveway (the a-hole you helped later “reporting” the extra car). I don’t want to “diss” that area too much but suffice to say it was no longer for me.

                                                                                                                                A big part of the “when” was simply the part that I was in my early 20’s and finally starting to make a little cash. I wanted to put it into something that would last.

                                                                                                                                That brings up the point of TIMING.
                                                                                                                                1. Don’t run to a new place cause you think the world is going to end tomorrow- it’s not going to. I have met and know more than my share of people that pulled money out of 401K’s, IRAs, etc. back in the early 90’s, in the late 90’s, etc. and moved to the woods. Some of them are at the age where they should or would be retired now, but are still working. With better planning they might not have to work right now, but I’m guessing many blew their retirement savings because some “prophet of doom” told them “dollar denominated assets are about to be worthless” and they did rash things. If I’ve heard that 100 times I’ve heard that 1,000 times during the 30 years I’ve been preparing.

                                                                                                                                Don’t run scared!

                                                                                                                                2. By starting way ahead of time and building slowly over time, you can often pay cash as you go. Yeah I know how bad it sucks to only have $100. or so a month to put towards your place, but just keep doing it. Another 50 cement blocks put in place is another 50 blocks towards your goal. When you don’t have a 30 year mortgage tying up your initiative, you’ll be happy as hell that it took you 5 years to build a house. I can tell you there has been more than a few times we would have likely lost our place if we had a mortgage.

                                                                                                                                5 acres PAID FOR is way better than 300 acres financed.

                                                                                                                                I know I’m rambling but thoughts keep tying into this-

                                                                                                                                So QUANTITY of land. Everyone I talk to- and myself included way back when- “wanted” “at least 100 acres.” Now keep in mind these are normally city folks like I was, that complained about their postage stamp yard they had to mow every week! 100 acres is a LOT of land and that’s damn near a full time job in itself.

                                                                                                                                Better a smaller tract that you can possibly pay cash for, or have a small 10 year mortgage you can double up payments on and be clear in short order. Perhaps their is timber you can sell on the land and use the proceeds to pay towards the mortgage? Get creative. Yes I know, I like the trees for cover also, but a paid off “football field” is better than a mortgaged forest.

                                                                                                                                DON’T plan on moving there right away if you can possibly avoid it. It takes time to get infrastructure in place and you need time to get used to the area, learn the customs, learn the locals a bit. And by all means DON’T run your mouth about how much better it was in the city, or how they did it better there, etc. Respect property boundaries and make sure your kids do as well. The country is not a big “park” where you can play anywhere, drive your ATVs all over other people’s land, throw trash wherever, etc. People might not say anything but this pisses people off big time.

                                                                                                                                Plan ahead, study the areas you are looking around at. Find the websites for realtors in that area and get a grasp on land prices, etc. Visit there often, be courteous and try to fit in.

                                                                                                                              • #67991
                                                                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                                                  Great post Robert.

                                                                                                                                  St. Johns County has some real crazy zoning, but it’s pretty much the same for most coastal counties with the exception of Big Bend Coastal area.

                                                                                                                                  Any place that has HOA is not the place to be, what Robert describes is the same all over the US in these preplanned neighborhoods.

                                                                                                                                  If your retired, can work from home online, or via FEDEX. you certainly have more options.

                                                                                                                                  I prefer a more economically depressed rural area with former or current agricultural/ranching being best, land and cost of living will be more reasonable.

                                                                                                                                  Speaking of timing, I remember when land near the coast could be had for $100 an acre, that same land is upward of $10,000 an acre, and some subdivisions selling lots for much more. Many got the timing right and did quite well because of it.

                                                                                                                                  If you have family(even if no longer there, but remembered) or friends in the area it is even better and speeds up being accepted into the community.

                                                                                                                                  Get known in a positive light, you don’t want to be the stranger that shows up when a “Event” happens.

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