CQB fails?

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    • #96156
      tango
      Participant

        Came across this video and it made me think a little. What happens when your room clearing fails? What kind of extraction plan is in place? At what point do you decide to fall back rather than continue on? How do you coordinate CASEVAC and security?

        The tendency that I’ve seen from people, usually, is they make more backup plans than primary plans and there is not enough effort or gumption to make the primary plan work. This is not where I’m going with this question.

        This is a very general set of questions with many variables. I don’t expect a cut and dry answer, if any at all. Just something thought provoking. No idea if this will be addressed in class.

      • #96157
        wheelsee
        Participant

          From a TM (Tactical Medic) perspective, when you’re working in groups – If you take a casualty, the casualty MUST do self-aid while the remains groups fights through. IOW, the casualty should consider placing a TQ (high and tight) rather than going for his pistol (notice he had 2 other team-shooters to cover him).

          This is different if the casualty is also alone and must win the fight. Win the fight first, then first-aid.

          Realize that a GSW to the thigh, if the femoral artery is damaged/severed, can bleed out in less than a minute. If the femur is broken and no damage to the femoral artery/vein (slim chance), you will still lose 1 unit of blood. Then moving the casualty around puts the vessels at risk of further damage from bone fragments moving around. And yes, I would recommend putting a TQ on until a more thorough exam can be made (off the X and by medical personnel).

          Just food for thought…….

        • #96158
          JohnnyMac
          Participant

            A few general thoughts, none of these are absolutes:
            -is destroying the building an option? I’d rather avoid CQB if possible from the start
            -if there is one environment I want to completely overmatch an enemy, it’s CQB
            -In reference to the three rules of CQB: speed, surprise, and violence of action, surprise in practice is one of the greatest advantages (and easiest to lose)
            -there are so many minutia that can sabotage you in CQB
            -momentum is key

            Room Clearing Fails:

            -When a room clearing fails because you didn’t make entry in the first place, it might signal that your breacher wasn’t properly equipped, wasn’t properly trained, or didn’t accurately assess the entry point (which could circle back to training anyway), or lastly the team wasn’t thinking creatively enough on method of entry to begin with. Also, you’re breacher could have performed flawlessly and #1 freezes up in the breach point for whatever reason. Or, both guys do what they’re supposed to but trigger a victim-initiated IED….CQB can be a shitshow. It could also just be bad luck/intel. A failed/botched entry is horrible because, at the least, you’ve just lost the element of surprise, which is super important for CQB. At the worst, I suppose, is everyone is rendered incapacitated and taken prisoner for torturing/propaganda/execution.

            -Beyond entry, a failed room clearance means your teammates are dead or dying. What to do next is super situational. How much do you like them? How important is the mission? Is there another way to go and still clear the OBJ…and do you have the time/resources to do it? Some possible options:
            1) cheese it: you selfish bastard you, Haha
            2) gain control of the room and start evacuating casualties…this is a rough spot to be in, might be hard to pull off, and you just failed the mission if you don’t have any more units to continue the mission
            3) fight through: mission completed? everybody dies? …who knows
            ..there are more options, just the first three that came to mind

            Weird stuff happens in CQB and it’s easy to make mistakes.

            I started to do a play-by-play breakdown of the video, but I see a ton of errors in their technique, so I’ll just leave it at that.

          • #96159
            TC
            Participant

              Good questions to ask in class. CQBC 2017 didn’t officially get into CASEVAC since it was already drinking from a firehose just learning the ABCs. But John the instructor was happy to answer any questions that came up.

              That said, it was predictably the 1-man who gets shot first and most often. When that happens, hopefully he takes the threat down with him (or at least acts as a human shield) and manages to get out of the way.

              If he goes down in the doorway blocking his team from swift entry, and if threat is still shooting, then having lost the surprise and now being too slow to enter, they’ll get cut down one by one in rapid succession. Sometimes this can happen quicker than it takes to decide and act on falling back.

              If rest of team makes it, however, the casualty does self-aid while they continue clearing. I’m assuming this is because numbers are limited and all remaining manpower is needed up ahead per the maximum violence / overwhelming force precept.

              I like the idea of destroying the building if there’s no one and nothing worth saving inside. If it’s a typical American plywood home and all you had is rifles then I’m guessing that entails doing a “Mad Minute” before entering and clearing.

            • #96160
              A_A_Ron2guns
              Participant

                Hopefully you die/get injured outside the room.

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