"Community" or groups?

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    • #96378
      Robert
      Participant

        I think for most people, they tend to use the word “community” when what they really mean is a GROUP.

        Community = whoever the hell is there. Aka the classic fiction story BS about gathering some schmucks from your subdivision and leading them (of course the lone survivalist is always the leader right?) and everything working out peachy. Of course what could go wrong trying to keep a bunch of spoiled yuppies (probably libs) alive? And you CAN’T exclude anyone, cause that wouldn’t be “community” if you left out the guy on the state child molester website. Don’t forget the meth heads and pill poppers, they have to be included to!!

        Now GROUPS on the other hand is what most of us mean. A GROUP is people we PICK ahead of time. No publix skewl everyone is included no matter how much of a detriment they are, non-sense.

        Most of us look for others of like mind, to train with and prepare with AHEAD OF TIME. That’s a key factor in the difference between grouping up (ahead of time, people YOU choose and advance preparations), versus “community” which is essentially “oh shit, it happened, I’m stuck in a subdvision with a bunch of people around me, they are going to eat me alive if I don’t share my supplies with them so I have to try to make the best of this…”

        The “savior of the subdivision” fantasy was born out of the overriding fact that many survivalists/patriots will not take the time and effort to group up with others ahead of time. Also, few want to truly consider leaving the suburbs. So it gave a nice little cozy way to consider making the prospect of living around a boatload of unprepared people work. It won’t work, LONG TERM.

        Now I’m not talking about the two day power outage, the week long hurricane. Most everyone KNOWS during those things that “help is on the way!” and will act accordingly. I’m talking about after a couple weeks, a month when the realization sets in that the Red Cross is not going to pull up with blankets and donuts….

        “But I’ll play the “gray man” and be the only family in my subdivision not losing weight, looking sickly, no one will notice that….” Yeah right, sure they will.

        “I’ll pass out Mosin Nagants (or other “cheap” butter knife guns) to people I don’t know in my subdivision and they will honor me as their leader..” They will be UNPAID MERCENARIES essentially once they realize you are eating and they are not. Better to hand them out six months of basic grains (or salami lol) than a weapon.

        No, what we are all seeking is people we can learn to TRUST and TRAIN WITH ahead of time. People that as that trust is developed, we can learn to count on during bad times. We want to be able to SELECT them ourselves based on our own criteria not just “they are here and we have to include them cause you know, it’s like publix skewl, everyone has to be included…”

        In 30 years of doing this, I’ve seen many a small group of 4-8 people get a lot of big things accomplished. I’ve seen groups of 30 or more that got the same amount -or less- accomplished. I’ve seen a lot of bad “picks” and a lot of good “picks.” It’s not an easy thing to do, and you will make mistakes, that’s called life.

        But the bad fiction story alternative- “community” amongst a bunch of unprepared people that are NOT thinking long term that are NOT going to truly stand with you when the time comes, is a bad alternative. Better to stand on your own than on shaky ground.

        Two things you just simply cannot get around-
        1. You have to group up with people ahead of time.
        2. You have to train and train with them.

        Common themes huh?

      • #96379
        Max
        Keymaster

          I think that many are using the term ‘tribe’ or ‘clan’ now, but perhaps without realizing what that really entails. When I wrote about ‘sustainable communities’ I was never thinking that you would suddenly make a sub division sustainable, but that it was something planned – or at the very least it would have to emerge out of a lack or preparation, where what had become a group of survivors got somewhere and were able to farm it. Hard, yes.

          I think a useful visualization is to sit at your kitchen table, and imagine if suddenly ‘the hammer fell’ right then. I think many visualize some situation at some indeterminate point in the future, by which time they will of course be ready. Well, no-one is going to step up and say “Go! it’s collapse time now.” Particularly if communications go down over what seems to be a short term thing but then it drags on inexplicably.

          So sit down and visualize who and what you have around you in your ‘community.’ If it suddenly happened right now? Are you ready? Where is your family or group, right now? I certainly am not as ready as I would be like, I am pretty crap at being an actual ‘prepper’ but I have a few irons in the fire. What is around you and how do you think things will pan out as hunger and panic spread? No one suddenly tells you that the hammer fell, thus sending you immediately into ‘porch-sniper-indiscriminate-intruder-killer’ mode. You still have to interact with neighbors as things get worse. With how and how will that go? Have you got rules of engagement (‘policies’) for situation and how you want your family to react? When does charity stop etc?

          I quite enjoyed the first season of Fear the Walking Dead, with what appeared to be a good portrayal of a collapse affecting liberal urban areas. The characters seemed to go through all the usual things you would expect helpless libs to go through. The second season is, however, just irritating, because those poor decisions they make and their ridiculous mindset, just aggravates me.

        • #96380
          Lineman
          Participant

            When I talk of Community I don’t mean a group of people separate from the Community you live and work amongst…I am shooting for a the whole Community being self sufficient and Liberty minded which is why I’m encouraging those of the Liberty mindset to move to certain areas that have the terrain, water, climate, that’s conducive to a self sustaining, self sufficient, and secure lifestyle… In my opinion it’s really the only way your going to be able to enact change like getting rid of property tax, insane rules and regulations, etc…

          • #96381
            Robert
            Participant

              I quite enjoyed the first season of Fear the Walking Dead, with what appeared to be a good portrayal of a collapse affecting liberal urban areas. The characters seemed to go through all the usual things you would expect helpless libs to go through. The second season is, however, just irritating, because those poor decisions they make and their ridiculous mindset, just aggravates me.

              Amen to that!

              A completely dysfunctional family with everyone running in different directions, no LEADERSHIP of the family (Jaws woman trying to do the feminazi Jezebel thing but it not working out well. The dad being a total wuss) meanwhile not giving a care what the owner thinks (yacht owner guy). The old Savadorian death squad guy probably has the best chance.

              Letting out 5,000 zombies so you and your family can stand a chance of getting away- that’s the ultimate example of what you called “selfish preppers” just thinking solely about themselves!

              The show is a good example of the mentality I was talking about re: the publix skewl attitude that we have to include everyone even the druggies, child molesters, etc. That’s a recipe for disaster.

            • #96382
              Robert
              Participant

                When I talk of Community I don’t mean a group of people separate from the Community you live and work amongst…I am shooting for a the whole Community being self sufficient and Liberty minded which is why I’m encouraging those of the Liberty mindset to move to certain areas that have the terrain, water, climate, that’s conducive to a self sustaining, self sufficient, and secure lifestyle… In my opinion it’s really the only way your going to be able to enact change like getting rid of property tax, insane rules and regulations, etc…

                Lots of folks have talked about that over the years. Have seen one group make that happen, it was a “group” long before they decided to start preparing. Children from one family had married others in the group, etc. They essentially had their own little “community”, but it was definitely outside the concept of including any old person.

                To give you an idea of what percentage of people DO truly relocate to a safe area I offer this example-

                A long long time ago in a galaxy far far away I interacted with a group that over the years had well over 100 people come through. Yes probably all were not truly serious, but I’m counting the regulars that did come, train and do some preparing. 20 years later myself and an old SF Vietnam vet guy that was with us sat around and talked about all the old guys, what they were doing now, etc. etc. To the best of our knowledge only 2 of them ever relocated to a safer area- that’s 2% Only a handful were still even remotely active.

                Talking to others, it would seem 2 to as much as 5% is probably a good percentage of those that both CAN and WILL relocate to safer areas.

                So I’d love to think that we will all move to a survivalists/patriot’s utopia somewhere, but the reality of it (and experience shows) probably way less than 5% actually WILL do that.

                Consider this- during the 99-2006’ish housing bubble, a LOT of folks had the chance to sell their house they might have paid $50-70K and get $200-250K for it. They could have taken that different ($200K), bought a helluva spread in a rural area or bought a nice house with 10 acres for probably less than half of that and lived off the rest. Hell I was writing about that at the time, giving options to the ones that always cried that they “couldn’t move.” I know of no one that did that though- actually using the bloated equity to buy a place outright in the country. I do know a few that “flipped” houses and made that kind of money only to buy other houses in the suburbs and then get stuck underwater when the market turned south.

              • #96383
                Lineman
                Participant

                  Oh yea definitely agree with you on very few people doing it Brother…But you could say the same thing about those who try in their areas to make a self sustaining community…The question is if people did actually make the effort do you think the idea had merit of making it better for Liberty Folk?

                • #96384
                  Robert
                  Participant

                    I think this sort of thing will have a better chance of happening AFTER the shake out.

                    CW2 aside, look at it this way- a year after full SHTF, you are going to have essentially just two types of people.

                    One type will be PRODUCERS. They will be the people that will be producing, growing, trapping, hunting, foraging, trading, etc. for what they need.

                    The 2nd type will be those that are still trying to make it via stealing what others produce. Some will be petty thieves, aka the couple of tomatoes and a chicken took in the middle of the night. Others will be the “Negan” (Walking Dead reference) raider types. That far into it, those types will be a different “breed” than the run of the mill looter when things first start happening. They will be hardened, they will have the experience. It won’t be ass clowns shooting Raven .25’s sideways! They will be organized and ruthless, they will have to be to survive that long.

                    The 3rd class that will have died out, are the dregs that want/wanted something for nothing. The whole class of people that want the world to make exceptions for them now, while they are callous and selfish a-holes and make no exceptions for anyone else. I call them “takers” and they OUT THEMSELVES very quickly if you pay attention. And yes, unfortunately there are a boatload of them in the patriot movement as well.

                    There will be a time to do what your talking about, but few will do it ahead of time unfortunately.

                  • #96385
                    Lineman
                    Participant

                      The thing is there would be so many benefits to doing it before but your right people usually have to experience pain and hardships before they will make a change… People will bear many things to be able to stay in their comfort zone…They will defend the indefensible, support evil over good, make foolish decisions all so they can remain comfortable… I wonder if anyone has ever done a study on how many wealthier Jews fled and how many stuck around to be killed off…I bet your percentage is dead on…

                    • #96386
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        Aka the classic fiction story BS about gathering some schmucks from your subdivision and leading them (of course the lone survivalist is always the leader right?) and everything working out peachy.

                        Hey, I really enjoyed that book, very entertaining!

                        Of course just like movies, I’ll not base my preparations; or life, on it.

                        I think that many are using the term ‘tribe’ or ‘clan’ now, but perhaps without realizing what that really entails.

                        Bold is mine for emphasis, I really believe this to be true. Romanticized nonsense! Now for clarity the Tribal concept isn’t the problem; it has possible merit, but the scope of such a commitment is beyond what some of these ignorant people realize.

                        I quite enjoyed the first season of Fear the Walking Dead, with what appeared to be a good portrayal of a collapse affecting liberal urban areas. The characters seemed to go through all the usual things you would expect helpless libs to go through. The second season is, however, just irritating, because those poor decisions they make and their ridiculous mindset, just aggravates me.

                        Ditto!

                        The question is if people did actually make the effort do you think the idea had merit of making it better for Liberty Folk?

                        Yes, but I am very cynical through experiences similar to what Robert described. Not to mention how easy it is to be a “self sufficient and Liberty minded” good neighbor “Pre-Event,” but I am less confident of their “good ngeighbor” status once the hammer falls.

                        Please don’t take this as criticism of your; and many others, giving this choice a try. Overall I think there will be many people successful with this option.

                        There will be a time to do what your talking about, but few will do it ahead of time unfortunately.

                        Much sifting through the population to occur, it won’t be a boring time.

                      • #96387
                        Robert
                        Participant

                          Much sifting through the population to occur,

                          Love that word! PRECISELY what I meant!

                        • #96388
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            Yea; for me, that’s why I am happy to give it go right here in overpopulated Florida. :-)

                            It’s certainly not that I disagree with the idea of the American Redoubt, but I am gambling that I can make it through the “sifting” process right here.

                            Is it a big gamble?

                            No doubt about it and perhaps under different circumstances like still having young children at home I might try a more conservative approach.

                            Regardless of location and planning there are no guarantees and I always liked an interesting challenge. ;-)

                            I suspect many will be surprised at how things go for us Crackers here in Florida.

                            Of course I have a few fallback options available, some overseas should the need arise.

                          • #96389
                            Lineman
                            Participant

                              Separating the wheat from the chaff;) Now don’t you have a heart attack GW burying all the dead down there;)

                            • #96390
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                Now don’t you have a heart attack GW burying all the dead down there;)

                                …gators too!

                              • #96391
                                Lineman
                                Participant

                                  :good:

                                • #96392
                                  Robert
                                  Participant

                                    Don’t worry GWNS, I got a backhoe you can borrow that’s diesel so should be still running :) And you won’t have to dig through frozen ground so that’s a plus :good:

                                    Some areas of Florida are definitely better than others. The I-4 corridor area being greatly overpopulated, having a lot of nuke targets, etc. If you could take Jax out of N. Florida, N. Florida wouldn’t be too bad. Pretty much everything south of the “Mickey line” (I4) we may have to cede to the Cubans till we can take it back years later :) LOL

                                  • #96393
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      Don’t worry GWNS, I got a backhoe you can borrow that’s diesel so should be still running :)

                                      I appreciate it, right neighborly of you. ;-)

                                      I am hoping a major nuclear exchange is low probability, but I should be OK with normal prevailing winds.

                                      A bigger concern; even though I should have been outside of it’s effects, was the Crystal River Nuclear Plant. It has been shutdown. I am concerned about the Nuclear Power Plants in a grid down situation going Fukashima on us.

                                    • #96394
                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                      Moderator

                                        Getting back to Robert’s original premise.

                                        The way I see it most of us will start with groups that will hopefully lead to the creation of communities once things have stabilized. Through trade and barter, networking with other groups etc…

                                        Now anyone that can truly build a community “Pre-Event” I wish them luck and believe it would be the ideal. A lot of hard work to get there though.

                                        There are many small towns that are almost there right now, with a little “sifting” through initial hardship just might come together faster than others. To be clear I am talking about towns with populations in the hundreds.

                                        Consider this graphic depicting towns with populations under 1000 people, many much lower.

                                        Many of these are not prudent to proximity to certain , but there are some gems to be found.

                                        An overlooked, but possible option is Unincorporated communities. It is possible to gain or regain Incorporation for said community. This would allow for election of and establishment of local government. This opens the door for Police and Fire Departments with the legal ability to purchase and equip them.

                                        Imagine the possibilities if your group owned the land or a majority of the land in said community, some of these communities have populations under 200. Imagine your group having a political majority there. Something similar to the Free State Project or Free State Wyoming, but on a micro scale.

                                        This isn’t easy, but is not impossible.

                                      • #96395
                                        gramma
                                        Participant

                                          Probably even fewer have already done this once… and moved back to “town” and are ready to do it again, than 2%. But that’s what I’m currently considering doing. There are a lot of challenges. Exact location, for instance, is still TBD.

                                          One thing people often overlook: there are already people living there who have their own ideas about how “community” or “groups” should be put together and organized. It’s a real good idea to get to know them, before trying to organize things “your way”.

                                        • #96396
                                          Robert
                                          Participant

                                            Don’t worry GWNS, I got a backhoe you can borrow that’s diesel so should be still running :)

                                            I was joking about burying bodies :)
                                            I appreciate it, right neighborly of you. ;-)

                                            I am hoping a major nuclear exchange is low probability, but I should be OK with normal prevailing winds.

                                            A bigger concern; even though I should have been outside of it’s effects, was the Crystal River Nuclear Plant. It has been shutdown. I am concerned about the Nuclear Power Plants in a grid down situation going Fukashima on us.

                                          • #96397
                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                            Moderator

                                              It’s a real good idea to get to know them, before trying to organize things “your way”.

                                              Couldn’t agree more!

                                              Nothing like an outsider trying to tell the “poor rural folk” how it needs to be done.

                                              I was joking about burying bodies :)

                                              Yea, but it was nice thought. ;-)

                                              Isn’t there a story about the definition of a true friend?

                                              Someone you can call in the middle of the night to pull burial duty. :yes:

                                              Besides, you might be busy yourself!

                                              I’ll send you some gators if and when needed. I am sure GA has plenty of buzzards and worms should the Josey Wales method need application. :yes:

                                            • #96398
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                Here is another thought regarding Incorporation of Unincorporated Communities.

                                                When an unincorporated area incorporates to form a municipality, the new municipality essentially withdraws from certain elements of the county taxing unit and; with some exceptions, becomes responsible for providing its own municipal government and many of its own municipal services, including code enforcement, garbage collection, street cleaning, landscaping, fire and police protection.

                                                Decision making authority likewise shifts to the municipality, authorizing the governing municipal body to exercise those powers delegated by and implied from its municipal charter.

                                                Incorporation localizes control of a community, making the municipal government directly and exclusively accountable to local residents.

                                                It can also lower taxes of “donor communities” that under the county taxing system contribute more in taxes than they receive in services.

                                                Sparked largely by a desire to retain a greater percentage of
                                                scarce tax revenues, many communities are pursuing the prospect of municipal incorporation.

                                                So the much of the taxes currently going to the County would now stay within the incorporated community.

                                                Note: This is happening in Florida and is representative to Florida laws and statues. Those living in other States would need to research their options.

                                              • #96399
                                                Pericles
                                                Participant

                                                  Here is a look at merging the two concepts:

                                                  We Defy!

                                                • #96400
                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                  Moderator

                                                    Here is a look at merging the two concepts:

                                                    Looks interesting, might have to at least try out a Kindle sample.

                                                    Another option to Incorporating an Unincorporated Community would be simply using the Free State idea on a micro scale.

                                                    There are still many Incorporated towns with populations under 200 people (some under 100) that a Group could move to absorb politically and change it’s course to one of the Groups direction.

                                                    A check of the number of registered voters would determine the numbers required; for instance, a town with 200 residents may have as little as 45 people (assuming underage, nonvoters, and census average 43% registration of eligible voters). A group with as little as 50 eligible voters could take control, though I would try for a larger margin.

                                                    It would remove some of the time it takes to Incorporate, however there are potentially less choices available. Either option will take much research in addition to having or building such a relatively large group to accomplish.

                                                    Unfortunately most will probably have to settle for their own Group and do “Community Building” “Post-Event,” but there are certainly many options th undertake.

                                                  • #96401
                                                    Lineman
                                                    Participant

                                                      “There are still many Incorporated towns with populations under 200 people (some under 100) that a Group could move to absorb politically and change it’s course to one of the Groups direction.” That’s what I was trying to convey maybe I didn’t explain it well enough…

                                                    • #96402
                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                      Moderator

                                                        That’s what I was trying to convey maybe I didn’t explain it well enough…

                                                        I missed that, but the internet is sometimes hard to truly convey a message “fog of the net.”

                                                        I took it as a more general move to the “Redoubt.” Which as I said isn’t a bad idea, but not for everyone.

                                                        Targeting a Town for peaceful take over is a great option if you can manage the logistics and numbers required.

                                                        Unfortunately it will be difficult to get enough dedicated people onboard to pull this off. Not to mention the proper research required to ensure what the Group plans is possible under existing State and Local laws.

                                                        In Florida this takes a percentage of the Counties Tax revenues and diverts it the the Incorporated Community.

                                                        Having the resources of the Police, Fire, and Utilities could greatly increase the survivability of this Community.

                                                        Though it’s important to remember we are probably talking a single
                                                        Volunteer Fire Dept, maybe a Police Chief (Marshal) and a couple of seasonal part-time or volunteer Officers, and maybe a Public Works with a couple of employees. Between limited Tax revenue, Grants, and State/Federal programs this infrastructure could be built up with plenty of volunteer community effort.

                                                        Think of the many things available with a Municipal endorsement.

                                                        Still it’s a big undertaking.

                                                      • #96403
                                                        Lineman
                                                        Participant

                                                          Damn I hate it when I confuse people… I said this in the post “For what it’s worth” Why can’t anyone see that Patriots need to be moving to like minded areas… But I did say that right after I said I love my area so I can understand the confusion… No the main point was to have enough people in an area to be able to change your local situation to have more Liberty…

                                                        • #96404
                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                          Moderator

                                                            Damn I hate it when I confuse people…

                                                            It happens to all of us!

                                                            This could be a possible option for people that can’t move across country, but a more local option within their State at the price of a longer commute.

                                                            Assuming and it’s a big assumption they could get the numbers.

                                                          • #96405
                                                            Lineman
                                                            Participant

                                                              Or have an area where they can get a job so they don’t have a commute;) I guess it all comes down to what your priorities are…For most it’s not Liberty…Yet;)

                                                            • #96406
                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                              Moderator

                                                                For some that is the case, but some have chosen a different direction and some it’s simple economics. A young couple with children may simply be unable to move, particularly long distance.

                                                                So Lineman, how long have you lived in your current State? If you moved to this State which State did you live before? If born in another State where?

                                                              • #96407
                                                                Lineman
                                                                Participant

                                                                  Born and raised on a cattle ranch in NE, lived longer than a year in CA,WA,IL,NV,UT,MT,ID lived lots of places for shorter periods because I worked storm jobs for different power companies…I’ve lived in MT for about 3 years now…Moved many times Brother so have packing down to an art…Moved even when I didn’t even have a driver’s license from IL to WA so I know it can be done…With the ease of travel these days it’s not to difficult…

                                                                • #96408
                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                  Moderator

                                                                    Yea, but you have a career that transfers easy, not to mention you were still mostly regional.

                                                                    Don’t want to argue, I just think your harder on some than needed. Also many such as myself who are working different solution to our shared problem.

                                                                    When I retired, the military foot the bill for me to move pretty much where ever I wanted due to my circumstances.

                                                                    This is similar to my take on many of the “Occupied” States that are truly terrible, just move. These States I will not even drive through much less live in.

                                                                    Moving is a big deal and many don’t have the experience of moving like you and I have.

                                                                    Being single I could move anywhere anytime! :yes:

                                                                    Well enough of this, we’ll see if anyone else wants to discuss the peaceful takeover of a community. ;-)

                                                                  • #96409
                                                                    Lineman
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      I’m hard on them because they don’t want to even think about the possibility of it…I could understand if they checked into it and then said at this time I just can’t swing it because of this or that…But for most they are comfortable and that’s all that matters to them at this point… And I’m not single I’m married and have 4 kids so that’s not an excuse in my book it’s even more of a reason to get your family where you have better odds of thriving and surviving… Also I’m not asking them to do it on their own since I’ve offered to help them with job, housing, even moving…

                                                                    • #96410
                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                      Moderator

                                                                        That’s cool, I was married with 4 kids when I did my moving about so I know.

                                                                        I would just not be quite as general, but that’s my opinion.

                                                                        We will all have to live with our decisions! :yes:

                                                                      • #96411
                                                                        Robert
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          A major “sticking point” with most of us is DEBT.

                                                                          When your “stuck” in a 30 year mortgage, maybe underwater in it after the housing bubble burst, maybe you have car loans (just heard there are 7 year car loans now!!), etc. then you feel and are kinda sorta “stuck” in place.

                                                                          Debt robs us of our INITIATIVE. Initiative being the freedom to ACT versus being forced to REACT.

                                                                          It’s tough in today’s materialistic world. Everyone wants it now (preferably yesterday), saving? Are you kidding? We are marketed to relentlessly that we have to have a new car every 2.5 years or we might as well be pooping in the village well in a third world country…

                                                                          It’s tough to break through the debt cycle. We struggled for years, eating storage food, not doing much, etc. to get out of debt. That gave us such freedom I know that’s an overused word but it’s true.

                                                                          There may come a day when you will see the writing on the wall and think “I could get out now and save a lot of trouble trying to get out at the last minute” but the need to work to pay debt may be holding you back (robbing your initiative).

                                                                          We overlook how debt really does hold us down in many ways.

                                                                        • #96412
                                                                          gunnerbob
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            Robert, good post.

                                                                            Debt and our materialistic inbreeding has robbed us of so much. It can be difficult to escape but, do what you can when you can to get away from “modern” LIVING… it’s anything BUT. Try to live the simple (but hard working) life, we are.

                                                                          • #96413
                                                                            Lineman
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              There may come a day when you will see the writing on the wall and think “I could get out now and save a lot of trouble trying to get out at the last minute” but the need to work to pay debt may be holding you back (robbing your initiative)

                                                                              That’s pure truth right there Robert… The thing is people use debt as an excuse but are not working to get rid of that debt…They just can’t quit their addictions like alcohol, cable, cigarettes etc to pay down their debt or they keep working that dead end job because they don’t want to put the effort in to find a new one…My profession is always hiring and the wages are some of the highest in the country and yet you have Veterans that are working at McDonald’s…We have had 50 year olds come through the apprenticeship so it’s never to late;)

                                                                            • #96414
                                                                              trailman
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                A major “sticking point” with most of us is DEBT.

                                                                                We overlook how debt really does hold us down in many ways.

                                                                                That’s our situation. While we are not underwater we are heavily leveraged. We are not the materialistic folk though. Three properties, (Old house/rental, woodlot and home/small farm) all in some phase of begin paid off. Anytime we have come into windfalls they have generally gone into these three to increase their value in the long run. New vehicles, lol. All our are 10 years old, I drive a 19Yo Gran Am to work. Our plan is to roll the first two up into the thirds to pay it clear.

                                                                                FWIW if I could figure out how, I’d pick up in a heartbeat, but we still have pay our bills and put food on the table. I have about 3 years until I can pull the plug but the wife has many more.

                                                                                So lineman you have a house, property and a job for an enterprise level network engineer and a high end GS DoD employee? Until then we are staying in place. My biggest drawback here beside the location is I have no family and the spouses are worthless.

                                                                              • #96415
                                                                                Lineman
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  You can private msg me with both your resumes or I can send you link of the jobs we have around here…You can tell me what you have to have in a house and what you can afford… Do you have family also or is it just you and the wife?… Do you have medical issues that you have to be close to a big hospital… Anything else that’s pertinent let me know…

                                                                                • #96416
                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                    My profession is always hiring and the wages are some of the highest in the country and yet you have Veterans that are working at McDonald’s…We have had 50 year olds come through the apprenticeship so it’s never to late;)

                                                                                    Now this is always a good point, find a better paying easily transfered job is always a possibility.

                                                                                    We overlook how debt really does hold us down in many ways.

                                                                                    I went to great lengths to ensure I was debt free before retiring from military and it’s a great position to be in.

                                                                                  • #96417
                                                                                    Pericles
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      “There are still many Incorporated towns with populations under 200 people (some under 100) that a Group could move to absorb politically and change it’s course to one of the Groups direction.” That’s what I was trying to convey maybe I didn’t explain it well enough…

                                                                                      When looking at that, there was no housing available as a rule for one family, much less a group. There may be towns with small populations and unused infrastructure and housing in your AO, in mine, it seems that small towns have had steady decline over decades. That does not leave much to leverage from as a base.

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