Clothing Advice – Hill People Gear

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    • #107210
      wesmc
      Participant

        The other day, I had asked for advice regarding manufacturers of merino wool base layers. I’m glad, now, that I held off. Check this out:

        http://soldiersystems.net/2016/12/26/hill-people-gear-presents-longhouse-clothing-system/

      • #107211
        wheelsee
        Participant

          Wes,

          Good information….how does his observations/comments jive with others??

        • #107212
          wesmc
          Participant

            I don’t know? I just found it interesting that some of the info regarding cotton and wool are contrary to what I’ve come to take for granted. But like Max says about dogma…

          • #107213
            DiznNC
            Participant

              HP is legit. They are out there humping their kit. But again terrain and situation. What works well for them in western mountain states might not work for you in south-eastern lowlands. You gotta go out in your terrain and see what’s up.

              Even in winter, I have been sweating quite a bit under load, over long distances. So I need base layers that still wick well, just like it’s summer time. Thick long underwear doesn’t cut it for me. I still need light base layers that wick well. Along with light breathable shell layers that cut the wind. This might be different from conditions in Montana or wherever right now. But, if I wuz out on patrol, instead of coming back home, I could still use a Mt Serape to keep from chilling once I stopped moving.

              There are places that wool base layers work. There are places cotton base layers work. The south-east just ain’t it. The synthetics (both poly and nylon) work best for me (PCU level 1). And for milder winters, the gridded fleece (like PCU level 2 or sometimes 3) work better than synthetic down or puffy (happy) suits. And a soft shell (PCU or ECWS level 5) works well in windy/rainy weather versus a waterproof/gtx layer. (PCU or ECWS level 6). And when static, PCU or ECWS level 7 puffy suit, or Jarhead Happy suit.

              There are many other Gucci brands for this stuff but I prefer good surplus PCU/ECWS/USMC gear at reasonable prices.

            • #107214
              Lloyd
              Participant

                Speaking as a guy that spent 4 years running around the back-country of Idaho guiding elk hunts, I would say this guy is spot on, and VERY informative. Everything he says makes perfect sense to me. Very interesting info about the new synthetic options compared to wool, which was about the best we had 20 yrs ago.

                MVT Texas 2015-2020
                Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

              • #107215
                Roadkill
                Participant

                  I haven’t been able to watch the entire video so I don’t know if he mentioned fishnets. I got my first set back in the 70s and now Wiggys is a big proponent of them. These go next to the skin before your first base layer. They allow any sweat to evaporate off your skin and get it to your base layer which then transports to outer layers to evaporate. Plus the air space is like a layer of insulation. Fishnets, baselayer, insulated jacket then smock, will keep you warm in ungodly cold temps.

                • #107216
                  wesmc
                  Participant

                    @ Diz – yep! I like gridded fleece and use two different weights of Under Armour under either a cycling windbreaker if riding the mountain bike (down to 20 degress), or a BDU shirt if carrying my shit through the greenbriers of southern WV.

                    @ Shooter – I was struck by the wool vs. synthetic comparison as you were.

                    @ Roadkill – I like fishnets, too. :yahoo:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYe3oLAPmms

                  • #107217
                    Roadkill
                    Participant

                      Wesmc I look kind of like that

                    • #107218
                      wesmc
                      Participant

                        Hahahaha!!!!

                      • #107219
                        DiznNC
                        Participant

                          Yeah I’ve heard a lot about Merino wool base layers as well, but I always had my old issue poly pro, and just bought more as required, cuz it’s what I know. I was always just too cheap to re-invest in good Merino wool stuff.

                          Well, I’m kinda glad I never did now, cuz I guess the newer synthetic stuff I have works pretty good.

                        • #107220
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            I use Merino Wool Ragg Socks over Polypro X-Static Sock Liners. The liners help prevent blisters, wick moisture, and the silver in the fibers of the X-Static prevent the microbial funk in the field.

                            Like Diz, I use poly pro because of familiarity and good experience with it.

                            Whatever works for you is the point.

                          • #107221
                            wesmc
                            Participant

                              Diz, I was about to order wool, but now will go to Sam’s Club and pick up some Omni Wool.

                              Joe, I like wool socks, too. Darn Tough are favorites, but I received one pair each of these as Christmas gifts.

                              Damascus – Medium Weight Technical Crew (Men's)

                              http://defeet.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=167EBE14CA02425991DE7D5C4EABE659

                              I like both pair.

                            • #107222
                              Lloyd
                              Participant

                                I’m loving the fishnets! Roadkill, you are HOT! :heart:

                                I’m all about replacing the heavy wool shirts and coat with Polartec, and I’m also a recent convert to the “baselayer shell” thing…

                                Though I found the info in the video about wool “very interesting”, I am NOT ready to change my religion enough to ditch the merino wool next to the skin. Merino wool socks and underwear have served me well for years – I haven’t been impressed with synthetic layers directly against my skin, if for no other reason than they seem to make my B.O. stink a lot worse and a lot faster than cotton or wool.

                                MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                              • #107223
                                First Sergeant
                                Moderator

                                  I’m loving the fishnets! Roadkill, you are HOT! :heart:

                                  I’m all about replacing the heavy wool shirts and coat with Polartec, and I’m also a recent convert to the “baselayer shell” thing…

                                  Though I found the info in the video about wool “very interesting”, I am NOT ready to change my religion enough to ditch the merino wool next to the skin. Merino wool socks and underwear have served me well for years – I haven’t been impressed with synthetic layers directly against my skin, if for no other reason than they seem to make my B.O. stink a lot worse and a lot faster than cotton or wool.

                                  What he said.

                                  I switched to merino wool base layers after the synthetic stuff came out. While it was a huge leap forward for the military, I can’t stand the way it feels long term against my skin and the damn smell gets bad after a while, especially if you can’t wash them.

                                  So I wont be getting rid of wool either. I have spent enough time in cold weather environments to know that wool works to just get rid of it. Using it in conjunction with the newer stuff it works.

                                  Figure out what works for you.

                                  FILO
                                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                  Je ne regrette rien
                                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                • #107224
                                  DiznNC
                                  Participant

                                    Yeah I mean people have been going out in the cold for ages so lots of stuff works. Think of the Eskimos in Alaska (don’t know the new PC name, don’t care); these cats have been stroking around in this shit for a looong time. When I wuz a kid up there, and played out in it all day, I was sporting cotton long johns, and cotton parkas, mitts, hat, etc. And rubber over boots (any of you guys remember those jobs with the swinging metal clamps?!). We made igloos, snow caves, all kinds of shit. And I survived without much damage. :wacko:

                                  • #107225
                                    wesmc
                                    Participant

                                      Diz, I liked those over boots.

                                    • #107226
                                      Eddie
                                      Participant

                                        Diz, I liked those over boots.

                                        Me to.

                                      • #107227
                                        First Sergeant
                                        Moderator

                                          Yeah I mean people have been going out in the cold for ages so lots of stuff works. Think of the Eskimos in Alaska (don’t know the new PC name, don’t care); these cats have been stroking around in this shit for a looong time. When I wuz a kid up there, and played out in it all day, I was sporting cotton long johns, and cotton parkas, mitts, hat, etc. And rubber over boots (any of you guys remember those jobs with the swinging metal clamps?!). We made igloos, snow caves, all kinds of shit. And I survived without much damage. :wacko:

                                          I went through some of my stuff after you posted this. I have several of the M1951 Fishtail Parkas that the Army issued and I am pretty sure the Marines did also.

                                          Since the Korean War it was “the” cold weather jacket for the Army. Being issued one was dependent on where you were stationed. Why? They are specifically designed for cold, dry climates. Not a wet cold. Depending on when it was manufactured in will either be 70/30 cotton nylon or 80/20 cotton nylon.

                                          I have worn these in European winters with the liner and they are excellent. Until they get wet. And then they get heavy and you have to have a way to dry them.

                                          This design is what the older style over-white jacket is from. And the night desert parka also takes it’s design from it also.

                                          I wore the desert parka during Gulf War 1, with a liner. Those things save our asses on more than one cold ass night.

                                          All of these are cut generously to allow movement and layering. Something that the field jacket doesn’t do. And that design goes back to WW 2. I used a field jacket for years as it was the only thing available until we started getting issued Goretex jackets.

                                          My point with all the rambling is there are some designs that will work in one part of the world and wont in others due to the climate. Same goes for us here in the U.S. Do you normally have cold dry winter or a cold wet one. That is going to drive you clothing requirements.

                                          I will get some pictures up of the different parks being worn in the next couple of days so you can see what I am talking about. For some, depending on where you live, they may be a viable option.

                                          FILO
                                          Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                          Je ne regrette rien
                                          In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                        • #107228
                                          RRS
                                          Participant

                                            I love the parka, of all my commercial foo foo gear I always go back to the parka. Some days I am forced by circumstance to go out in any weather and the parka is for those sub zero days. Thanks 1st Sgt for mentioning it

                                          • #107229
                                            wesmc
                                            Participant

                                              In WV, you never know what kind of weather you might have on any given day, so you need gear for all occasions. 50-degree, 24-hour temperature swings are not uncommon here as most of you well know, and from an operational standpoint, that’s tough to prepare for. Speaking of old-time gear, First Sergeant, remember the old, field-jacket-liner-inside-the-BDU-shirt trick? I liked that setup…still do, for cold-dry.

                                            • #107230
                                              Yankee Terrier
                                              Participant

                                                The Hill People Gear guys are first rate!!! they design their stuff as sort of “Grey Man gear”….And that psychology is at it’s highest with them…and they know layering like no one else….fantastic supplier,especially for the “grey period” between normal world condition white and full battle rattle.

                                              • #107231
                                                trailman
                                                Participant

                                                  In WV, you never know what kind of weather you might have on any given day, so you need gear for all occasions.

                                                  Just for an idea, in April two years ago at the market fair at Fort Frederick which is in the same climate band as MVT. Saturday Sunny in the 60’s that night cloudy high 20’s, morning it rains in the 40s then drops to the bottom of the 30s and snows and by afternoon clear in to 50s. Wool and linen all weekend. :yahoo:

                                                • #107232
                                                  wesmc
                                                  Participant

                                                    If you don’t like the weather, just wait a little bit. We have some crazy weather swings.

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