Blast from the Past: Red Storm Rising

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    • #81219
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        Tom Clancy’s Red Storm Rising is a excellent novel depicting a conflict scenario during the Cold War.

        Amazon’s summary:

        When Muslim fundamentalists blow up a key Soviet oil complex, making an already critical oil shortage calamitous, the Russians figure they are going to have to take things into their own hands. They plan to seize the Persian Gulf, and more ambitiously, to neutralize NATO. Thus begins Red Storm, an audacious gamble that uses diplomatic maneuver to cloak a crash military build-up. When Soviet tanks begin to roll, the West is caught off guard. What looks like a thrust turns into an all-out shooting war, possibly the climactic battle for control of the globe.

        This provides many excellent examples of the process of Intelligence. Additionally a good picture is depicted for those here who see the Cold War as an historical footnote vice a lived event.

        At 740 pages long it is a major investment in time, even the unabridged audio book version is over thirty hours long, but I highly recommend it.

        Remember the effects of Global operations and those at the Squad level are only a matter is scale.

      • #81220
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          The accuracy of the technical, operational, and tactics depicted within story is surprisingly accurate, right down to individual personnel actions.

          The details that are wrong do not detract from the story and will only be noticed by those with direct experience.

          The depictions of specific AO’s is particularly accurate and made for eerie feelings as I read story at these very locations.

        • #81221
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            The hypothetical “F-19A” stealth aircraft in book published in 1987 and obviously written earlier, remember this was a year before public acknowledgement of the F-117 Nighthawk.

            :good:

          • #81222
            lovemygear
            Participant

              I love the story line of the Royal Marines and an Air Force Weatherman behind the lines in Iceland.

            • #81223
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                I love the story line of the Royal Marines and an Air Force Weatherman behind the lines in Iceland.

                Yea, Iceland was always a weak link that needed more defensive capability.

                It was USMC not Royal Marines though. Keflavik’s Marine Security force was supplemented by an Auxiliary Security Force made up of mainly US Navy base personnel with limited local training by Marines. Hardly ideal. ;-)

                The importance of Keflavik in combating Soviet submarine sorties can not be underestimated. Stopping those sorties in defense of Reforger to resupply NATO operations was an essential component. Stop Reforger and you most likely lose Europe.

                The good old days!

              • #81224
                First Sergeant
                Moderator

                  Damn good book.

                  Clancy had access that I don’t think we will ever see again. Same for W.E.B. Griffin.

                  FILO
                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                  Je ne regrette rien
                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                • #81225
                  RobRoy
                  Participant

                    Because it’s me and I always need to wander off topic, I preferred “Team Yankee” over RSR. Clancy always reminded me of the hardware geeks, and I don’t have a high opinion of them and I will leave it at that.

                  • #81226
                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                    Moderator

                      Because it’s me…

                      Everyone has their preferences, however in this context I am recommending this based its examples of developing Intelligence vice entertainment.

                      Which is why it’s in the Information & Intelligence subforum.

                    • #81227
                      trailman
                      Participant

                        I have this in hardcover and paperback since it came out. I just re-read it last winter. The paperback is taped together. In this one I like how he wove several stories together into one book.

                        Also the Hunt for Red October was mandatory reading on my ship, the USS Moosebrugger DD-980. We were kind of pissed we were left out of the book as we were the test bed for the SQQ-89 sonar suite that is still being installed on the Burke Class.

                      • #81228
                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                        Moderator

                          …Royal Marines…

                          It was USMC not Royal Marines…

                          A few Royal Marines do factor later into story, I was thinking from the beginning of Ireland’s fall.

                          …Burke Class…

                          Cool stuff.

                          The DDG Arleigh Burke’s are extremely capable ships and would have addressed almost all of the shortfalls presented in the story. They have replaced every typical class of surface warfare ship except the CG Ticonderoga class presented in story.

                          Of course construction of this class did not even start until after this book was published.

                        • #81229
                          Spoon
                          Participant

                            I served on a Tico and can attest they very capable. Arleigh Burke better in some ways… In others not so much.

                          • #81230
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              I served on a Tico and can attest they very capable. Arleigh Burke better in some ways… In others not so much.

                              Size still matters! ;-)

                              You can only squeeze so much into a DDG compared to a CG.

                              The DDG’s are leaps and bounds ahead of the small boys below CG’s.

                            • #81231
                              Spoon
                              Participant

                                Size still matters!

                                You hit the nail on the head. Arleighs have everything the Ticos do… Ticos just have more of it. There are some redundacy issues where a Tico has an edge up. If you are a sailor Ticos are definitely a better quality of life. If you are a tax payer you definitely want Arleighs. It is just a more efficient ship in general. Well thought out.

                              • #81232
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  Arleighs have everything the Ticos do… Ticos just have more of it.

                                  I am glad the kept the CG’s, there was talk of getting rid of them. Probably still is.

                                  If you’ve read Red Storm Rising and replaced the Reforger convoy frigates with DDG’s it would have drastically changed events.

                                  …a better quality of life.

                                  Everything’s relative, I remember touring the USS Saratoga (CV-60) as a kid and thinking how cramped everything was, then a old WWII carrier sailor remarking how he couldn’t believe how much space they had! ;-)

                                • #81233
                                  Andrew
                                  Participant

                                    Damn good book.

                                    Clancy had access that I don’t think we will ever see again. Same for W.E.B. Griffin.

                                    People freaked out with the detail he had about subs in The Hunt for Red October. Most accurate book on fast attack boats I’ve read.

                                  • #81234
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      Most accurate book on fast attack boats I’ve read.

                                      Everything described was damn close, like I said it’s only the little details that are off.

                                      A former military guy couldn’t get that book published without significant legal ramifications.

                                    • #81235
                                      trailman
                                      Participant

                                        If you’ve read Red Storm Rising and replaced the Reforger convoy frigates with DDG’s it would have drastically changed events.

                                        I served on one of those, in the book it was the USS Pharris (FF-1094), I served on the Mointester FF-1097 during my last 3 year sea tour. Rocked that fucker in the North Atlantic in winter up by Norway. Those were the days, Bears, Backfires and Yankee Class boomers. A Krivak always following us around when we were in a task force.

                                        In contrast to the some other branches as soon as we left port (Norfolk) we were in Condition III – Wartime Cruising, on station most of the time we were Condition II since we would be on a sub. This thread really pulls at some old memories. :good:

                                      • #81236
                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                        Moderator

                                          In contrast to the some other branches as soon as we left port (Norfolk) we were in Condition III – Wartime Cruising, on station most of the time we were Condition II since we would be on a sub.

                                          The U.S. Navy was certainly an unsung hero of the Cold War whose skills and capabilities were and are unappreciated by events known to public.

                                          The last major naval battle against anything approaching a peer force was in July 1945.

                                          There are many lessor engagements with some particularly hot Cold War events, but these are virtually unknown to public.

                                        • #81237
                                          Andrew
                                          Participant

                                            There are many lessor engagements with some particularly hot Cold War events, but these are virtually unknown to public.

                                            I got off a Charleston, S.C. fast attack in ’76. I was a forward electronic technician, whose job was electronic surveillance. It was a very interesting time.

                                            I wonder, pretty often, what the new boats have on them in that category of equipment.

                                            The other thing I think about is we would have 3 reel movies to watch. I can’t imagine how much better it is with DVDs etc.

                                          • #81238
                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                            Moderator

                                              I can’t imagine how much better it is with DVDs etc.

                                              I know of situations where a ship hasn’t been in port for months, but a week before a new release movie comes out suddenly a bootleg copy of movie is floating around?I

                                              :unsure:

                                              Of course some movies are provided, but this is a different source.

                                              You saw this in Afghanistan and Iraq as well in the Bazaar’s, though we are talking the kind where you see someone getting up to get popcorn during dvd. ;-)

                                              Never underestimate the resourcefulness of young service members!

                                            • #81239
                                              xsquidgator
                                              Participant

                                                Loved that book. I was a nuc JO who signed up for SSNs and so of course got assigned to an SSBN in the late 80s early 90s. Still a great experience though and I still think that if it had gone up back in the USSR days, big parts of it would have been a lot like Red Storm Rising.
                                                Even the “SSBN deterrent patrols” back then were on a “for real” footing. Not sure about now, I’ve heard rumors that our response posture has been relaxed a bit since the 80s days of “The Day After” and “Threads”.

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