Barrett M107

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    • #102141
      Max
      Keymaster

        Just looking for thoughts on the practical usefulness of a M107 or any other 50cal in a grid down or WROL situation. Are the weight, size, and maneuverability issues offset by the possible benefits it could provide in a mountainous or heavy jungle environment etc.?

      • #102142
        Eric
        Participant

          I don’t know for sure…

          but I would think it somewhat impractical unless you have trained on it and actually used it in a combat situation. Good ammo for it is what? six or eight dollars apiece? The rifle itself is 3 or 4 k. I guess if you had a fortress, and a trained sniper, it might make sense. Otherwise, I don’t think it is something I would invest in.

        • #102143
          Corvette
          Participant

            I am convinced its impractical for an individual.

            Now if you have a larger group say platoon size and you have a heavy weapons sections for breaching “tough” nuts than this might come in very handy.

            Quite competent and penetrating any wall.
            Also very good at stopping ever large vehicles via a hit to the engine block if you are ambushing them or holding even moderately armored targets at risk.

            50 cal will penetrate M113 APCs and many other lightly (everywhere) to moderately (at the right spot) armored vehicles.

          • #102144
            Max
            Keymaster

              My 2 cents, they are incredible tools and a lot of fun to shoot. I’d hate to have to hump it too far. Engine block work/sniping from a fixed location is our primary function for this beast. (Of course, after a dirty deed, you still have to hump it out.)

              Just a note: It does not kick, but if one is standing beside the shooter where the muzzle brake blast ports, you’ll know it. And yes, two rounds equals a nice steak dinner.

            • #102145
              JohnyMac
              Participant

                BBQ’d,

                If I had $8K (Rifle Optics) to throw away after my preps were done, I would buy one.

                As has already been mentioned, it would be quite the piece of steel to be humping for any great distance (Wimp).

                Ammo cost wise, I think most serious folks roll their own so although costly it wouldn’t be retail costly. The plus is you can develop the best round for your rifle.

                “If wishes were horses, beggars would ride” ;-)

              • #102146
                Max
                Keymaster

                  As the others have said, if you have an anti-materiel or anti-vehicle mission, then it’s a great tool in the tool box. However, you aren’t going to use it as your patrol rifle for various reasons, the least of which is that it is 28 pounds. So are you going to carry an M-4 AND the Barrett? Probably not right?

                  If I needed to do a foot movement with a .50 cal I would maybe look at one of the very light weight rifles Anzio Ironworks makes.

                  Just my thoughts.

                • #102147
                  Yankee Terrier
                  Participant

                    Ragnar Benson’s David’s Toolkit paints a very good case for .50BMG in a resistance or grid down situation. It states that it is best used when supported by a small squad or like group. It is the best anti-material weapon we can legally purchase. In a WROL situation it is spoken of as…”when you don’t just want to stop someone but you want to stop their whole car..” Think through your situation and match the tool to the job.

                  • #102148
                    Max
                    Keymaster

                      The .50 BMG cartridge was originally conceived as an anti-aircraft round (maybe that’s why the anti-gun left seems to think it can take down airliners :wacko: ), so that should give you some idea of its capabilities. As an anti-vehicle round it’s overkill for most civilian vehicles but against light armor (think Bearcat or MRAP) it would be swell. B-)

                    • #102149
                      Corvette
                      Participant

                        The opposition of the left against this round once again proves that public safety has nothing to do with what they oppose.
                        But that Resistance against a tyrannical state is what they want to dis-enable not common criminals.

                      • #102150
                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                        Moderator

                          If I had a supply of Raufoss rounds it would be a higher priority for purchase

                          Mark 211 .50-caliber Multipurpose Ammunition

                          The XM107 .50-caliber sniper rifle is capable of firing the entire family of .50-caliber ammunition, other than the SLAP round. It is specifically tailored to the Mark 211 (Mk211) .50-caliber multipurpose anti-materiel round. The Raufoss Multipurpose (armor-piercing, explosive, incendiary) Ammunition is the crown jewel of .50 caliber sniper ammunition. This multi-purpose round was developed by the Norwegian company Nordic Ammunition Company (NAMMO) Raufoss AS. It is manufactured under license by several American companies, including Winchester. It is said to be the most popular round with US military snipers, it was used to good effect by US forces in the 1991 Gulf War.

                          The round combines armor-piercing, explosive, and incendiary effects and uses a highly effective pyrotechnically initiated fuze that delays detonation of the main projectile charge until after initial target penetration-moving projectile fragmentation and damage effect inside the target for maximum anti-personnel and fire start effect. While the round can be used in sniper rifles similar to the Barrett M82A1/XM107, it has the equivalent firing power of a 20 mm projectile to include such targets as helicopters, aircraft, light armour vehicles, ships and light fortifications, and can ignite JP4 and JP8 military jet fuel.

                          The unique Multipurpose Concept (MP) as developed by Raufoss has been applied in a wide range of products due to its recognised high performance and excellent safety characteristics. The MP concept provides cost-effective ammunition against a wide range of targets such as aircraft, helicopters, ships, trucks, and light to medium armoured vehicles and building structures. The MP design excludes the use of a mechanical fuze, which has been replaced by a pyrotechnical ignition train providing delayed action in the target, penetration, fragmentation and incendiary effects.

                          The MP concept has been used with great success to develop a unique 12.7 mm MP ammunition which has strongly contributed to enhance the 12.7 mm weapon system. The optimized ballistic shape of Low Drag Multipurpose projectiles has significantly reduced time of flight, improved hit probability against fast moving targets and improved terminal effects.

                          For the Multipurpose projectile to be effective against a wide range of targets it must have different kill mechanisms. It has been designed to have armor penetration capabilities and delayed action is built into the projectile. Terminal effect like blast, fragments and incendiary will, because of the delay, be delivered inside the target. The fragmentation process of the Multipurpose projectile will produce heavy fragments with deep penetration capabilities in material type targets.

                          The standard design of Multipurpose ammunition (20 – 40 mm) consist of an aluminum nose cap press filled with an incendiary charge on top of the shell body (heat treated steel) which again is press filled with a HE charge and an incendiary charge. The projectile can also be equipped with a tracer and a self-destruct element.

                          The 12.7 mm Multipurpose projectile differs from the standard design by using a tungsten carbide hardcore to increase penetration capabilities and being encased in a copper jacket. Since Multipurpose ammunition is a fuse-less design and do not have any sensitive primary high explosive components (only secondary high explosive) it does not have the safety risk associated with fused projectiles and does not produce dangerous duds.

                          Functioning of the Multipurpose projectile is obtained by hitting the target (light or heavy) inducing a fast deformation of the nose cap which is press filled with the incendiary charge. Upon reaching the ignition criteria for the incendiary charge the charge will start burning and subsequently ignite the HE charge resulting in the fragmentation of the shell body. Sensitivity is dependent on the deformation speed of the nose cap and the high speed associated with a projectile traveling down the trajectory is needed to obtain the necessary sensitivity.

                          I once was in a situation that required using up half a pallet of Raufoss rounds. One of the more memorable experiences of my military career.

                        • #102151
                          Corvette
                          Participant

                            Is the “Armor Piercing Incendiary” shown here close enough?
                            http://www.50bmgsupply.com/ammo.shtml

                          • #102152
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              Is the “Armor Piercing Incendiary” shown here close enough?

                              Usable? Yes, close to Raufoss, NO!

                              There is/was a company claiming to make a “Raufoss Like” round for civilians.

                              What truly makes the Raufoss special is RDX (primary ingredient in C4).

                              To my knowledge real Raufoss isn’t available to civilians.

                            • #102153
                              Max
                              Keymaster

                                F,

                                Would you set the weapon up utilizing a 2 man team and if so what roles would each play? Of course this is based upon the premise of using it in relation to a squad.

                                Thanks

                              • #102154
                                Max
                                Keymaster

                                  Thanks to everyone who has taken the time, your input is greatly appreciated. :good:

                                • #102155
                                  Max
                                  Keymaster

                                    It’s on the want list, as well as the QD can. It’s a little lighter weight so it’s a little better to carry. Spent a long time at the barrett booth in Indy. It’s getting closer to a need than a want. APCs and light armor is the new norm for oppressive types.

                                  • #102156
                                    Corvette
                                    Participant

                                      F,

                                      Would you set the weapon up utilizing a 2 man team and if so what roles would each play? Of course this is based upon the premise of using it in relation to a squad.

                                      Thanks

                                      well no one else said anything so here is my 2 cents:

                                      I think this weapons has to be a 2 man crew.
                                      1 (large bodied) shooter who carries this monster and one spotter ammo/carrier/protector armed with a Carbine.

                                      this is assuming FREEFOR folks NOT trained snipers who would use it in an antimaterial anti-armor role.

                                      While no panacea, properly used it should change the calculus on the ground and deny tactical opportunities to your OPFOR.

                                      (carefree driving in COIN type vehicles and even most APCs, will no longer be possible for OPFOR in the presence of a 50 BMG threat, this will curtail their options and enrichen yours)

                                    • #102157
                                      Max
                                      Keymaster

                                        The psychological impact of fielding a 50 is a force multiplier IMO. I’m no tactical expert or spec ops warrior, but the 50 scares the hell outta me, so the OPFOR surely feels similar misgivings when they see their safe haven swiss cheesed. Imagine seeing the guy you shared dinner with decimated by a 50. That’s going to be a game changer for anyone.

                                      • #102158
                                        Corvette
                                        Participant

                                          Agreed.

                                          this will make them more fearful, which will lead to more reprisals against the people, which will lead to a bigger FREEFOR

                                        • #102159
                                          Corvette
                                          Participant

                                            The best use I can think of is as an anti-material weapon. If the Chinese or Russians decide its game on, you can make sure that helicopters, vehicles, and airplanes don’t work from a safe-ish distance.

                                            Other than that, in the extreme, use it for a vehicle ambush role to disable vehicles. Possibly for an extraction or making sure you don’t damage the people inside. That takes A LOT of skill, planning and coordination.

                                          • #102160
                                            Max
                                            Keymaster

                                              Agreed. The best attack on an aircraft is when it’s sitting still on the runway. a few 10 round mags of API would cause significant damage to operational ability and cause the OPFOR to increase security, utilizing more resources. Deny them safety, sleep and food and they will fall.

                                            • #102161
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                What is normally cover becomes just concealment.

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