Who are the Auxiliary anyway?

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    • #59112
      Max
      Keymaster

        There was a very interesting post and subsequent thread over at the MVT Forum: ‘AUXILIARY…….???? (Is it theory or reality….???)‘. Yes, the original poster, Sourdough, takes  a somewhat negative and reactionary stance, but at the same time he has hit the nail on the head. He has outlined the situation, highlighted it.

        There is military doctrine for Unconventional Warfare………and then there is our America. Not the America of days gone by, but our place and people right now. ‘Merica.

        Should we find ourselves in an SHTF situation, fighting enemies foreign and/or domestic, how do we implement UW doctrine, which includes the fighters, the Auxiliary, and the underground? If we don’t have it now, will it develop?

        I am often stressing the need for team tactics. I also stress the need for sustainable communities for long term survival, protected by tactical teams that are in turn sustained and enabled by that same community. I often rail against the’selfish prepper’ and the ‘retreat sniper.’

        If we pull the two key words out of the above paragraph, we have community and team. That is a function of society, a society that for us is badly damaged and sadly lacking in today’s America. It is in turn not helped by extreme individualism and the myth of the’ ‘rugged individual.’ In such a situation, we all end up, by default, being the selfish prepper, and there is no auxiliary. The auxiliary is not magic – if you don’t have community now, then who will give you food SHTF? If you are a leaderless resistance guy, a loner, then why would you expect anyone to be your auxiliary? It’s not as if you are any sort of tactical team anyway, so why would anyone support you? You reap what you sow. You live as a rugged individual now, you will die as one later.

        Here are a couple of useful sample quotes:

        Baldrik wrote: “Max often refers to the fact that no one can live forever out of a ruck. I think the basic thinking goes like this: 

        Modern battles are largely fought in cities. This is folly for the UW that Max envisions. Instead a rural insurgency should be used which minimizes the enemy armor, air, and numbers, as well as extending and thus exposing their supply chain. A small force shouldn’t try to hold blocks of a city or towns, but rather should melt into the wilderness surrounding them.

        This involves setting up primitive patrol bases using whatever can be rucked in and striking at targets of opportunity. However, no matter how fit you are or how big your ruck is you can’t live forever from a pack (well maybe Bergmann could but he’s special.)

        People who are not directly participating as fighters would help with the logistics necessary for a force of any size to function. Think Resistance sympathizers in WWII, VC sympathizers in SE Asia, etc. A team has to consider shelter, fallback areas, E and E contingencies, ammo, food, medical supplies, and the availability of water to conduct a sustained rural insurgency. That, as I understand it, is the task of the auxiliary.”

        Randy wrote: “The “normal” operational cycle for a G Band is about 30 days. During that time, resupply, recon, targeting, security, training new Gs, etc. are ongoing. The long poles in that tent are targeting, security, and refit/resupply. 

        Your auxiliary plays a major role in all of those, as directed and supported by the area command. Your supplies may come in from other areas to support ongoing operations, with the promise of replenishment/payment. Given that supplies may trickle in (OPSEC, finding stuff, etc.) you see why the cycle time is long.

        Concur with OP4 as resupply. Your intel cycle and targeting will drive this. Isolated outposts, fixed CPs, etc. provide confidence targets that Gs hit for practice and supplies. One function of the auxiliary here is to haul off the loot. Six Gs aren’t carrying a lot of stuff. A truck would be handy. Just be prepared to share: You don’t, or shouldn’t, know what another band needs to conduct its operations. You probably won’t know why you did what you just did, assuming any kind of structure and plan, which you’ll need to succeed.

        We used a variation of this with the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps which later became the New Iraqi Army. Someone said “Here they are, get to work.” No logistics. Just went upstairs to the S2, an old SF guy, and asked for some low priority targets that could be used as confidence targets and resupply. He just grinned and pulled out a folder with the comment “I wondered when you’d ask for this.”  Off we went, killed them and took their stuff, inventoried it, and passed it out. We then replicated that across the Iraqi Brigade and we were off and running. “

        Randy also wrote: “The problem is going to be if we end up in a full blown resistance and the area command starts trying to inventory and distribute supplies for the cause. Dealing with the selfish prepper will take on a whole new dimension, and I don’t have any ideas, other than psychologically preparing people, now, to share for the greater good.”

        I think that in that last quote from Randy, there is a clue as to the root of the dysfunction. “Area command.” You cannot have a tactical team without people agreeing to work together under some form of discipline. You cannot have a functioning military unit without leaders and led. Yes, we are all free men, but some have to allow other to lead, and be good followers. It doesn’t matter if you elect your leaders, or choose them for their fashion sense (not the best idea!), so long as there is only one captain on each tactical ship. If the guy fails, then replace him, or walk – that is a choice that is yours.

        UW doctrine assumes a hard discipline for the G band. It also assume an element of the populace that are willing to help supply and support that G band. Many people see reference to the very military sounding “inventory and distribute supplies” and immediately grasp their mountain house tight, muttering “mine, mine, my precious’. I was once called a pirate by a  commenter over at WRSA for talking about this very thing. Max the pirate. I like it ;-)

        Readers star to equate the role of the auxiliary with someone coming to take their stuff, and conflate that with FEMA stealing their ‘hoarded’ supplies. Well, the thing is that all this has to be voluntary. There is no magic auxiliary. It will only be communities supplying fighters in their area, because they want to support them, unless we end up in some full blown civil war/resistance situation which is a bigger thing than most people are either preparing for, or could imagine, anyway.

        In Patriot Dawn, I described the G base and also the base where the families were stashed. I described how everyone brought in their supplies. Bringing what they had. And it was clear that these supplies were the private property of those families. However, I also described how as time went on, as they shared hardship, they started to share and support each other. You cannot continue to be a selfish individualist under such circumstances, when you are living with a group like that. You can, if you are isolated in your retreat, but then again no one is supporting you and no one will fight for you, or come to your aid.

        Patriot Dawn: The Resistance Rises

        I think that many are expressing opinions from what they consider a position of strength. They are preppers and they have the retreat, and all the stuff, and they “will be damned if anyone will have any of it.” But many in America have no idea of war. They have no idea of the ebb and flow of the tides of war. It is easy to be talking from a position of strength, but when something happens that forces you away from your stash, makes you homeless and seeking refuge elsewhere, you will be grateful for a spirit of charity.

        So, to conclude, there is no auxiliary, right now. There is no real team, right now. People need an attitude adjustment. Many who come on my classes and see team tactics in action are amazed by the holistic effect.  The only way things are going to evolve beyond a bunch of individuals and small groups hunkering down across the country is if people start to think in terms of team, and start to get a grip of this before it goes down.

        Till Valhalla.

        Max

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        CRCD 29-30 Mar2014 2

      • #59113
        Corvette
        Participant

          Old Chinese Proverb: “If one is going to hunt a tiger, take some relatives”

          Someone of my FB page jump up and posted at a picture i posted the other day and got a huge erection and went about saying action is the first step of an insurgency. I was way suprised because I thought this guy had his shit together.

          So I went on to assure him it was not. Its is the LAST step in an insurgency.

          1. Motivating and organization of the population for support. This also includes a Political propaganda base to counter the enemies attempts to smash your support before it starts. (Alex Jones garbage, FB garbage, and all that have ppl chasing their own asses in fear rather then proactive preparations)

          2. Unify the people/forces into one organized direction (Unification under a purpose/flag/banner). I doubt the USA will ever see a coast to coast unification for one cause. We will bust up into regional factions with separate objectives if the hammer drops.

          3. Supplies, base camps, AUXILIARIES come after all that IF you can get the citizens motivated and organized under one flag. But you cant exist in 3 if you dont have 1 and 2..

          IMO #1 hasn’t even been reached yet. People are bickering over the stupidest topics these days and people feed into the most absurd krapp posted everywhere … If the hammer dropped tomorrow North Korean Girl Scouts could make short work of most groups..

          Bergmann

        • #59114
          JustARandomGuy
          Participant

            “…The problem is going to be if we end up in a full blown resistance and the area command starts trying to inventory and distribute supplies for the cause. Dealing with the selfish prepper will take on a whole new dimension, and I don’t have any ideas, other than psychologically preparing people, now, to share for the greater good…”

            Here’s an off the wall thought ICW Randy’s comment here – When it comes to supply issues, why do we end up so fixated on only passing out personal supplies?
            Why shouldn’t this be part of the auxiliary/G/R-Command element?

            I kind of see passing around personal supplies like using your own IFAK to treat a buddy- you would do it in extremis, BUT you’re supposed to use that person’s kit for them, right?
            So I can see having to do some of this, perhaps in the opening stages of something, until organization can form, and more extensive supplies can be gathered or captured- kind of like a “buy in” or investment.
            After that, why not have it be a sort of centralized thing, beyond people’s personal supplies?
            For example you have an Active Operations team fighting the Regime/zombies/Chinese/Etc.
            They run low on “stuff”- food/meds/ammo/whatever, so they send the message to the local Quartermaster (Bergmann’s post, ie. regional factions)- “we need stuff”.
            The Q then has two groups under him- the “suppliers” and the “getters” – if we’re having good luck and gathered/bartered/found supplies, or we’ve managed to kick enough ass to capture supplies that are applicable, the Q calls a supplier with the applicable “stuff” and says “get the stuff to dead drop B by X time” and it is done.
            If the “stuff” needed is not available-say some kind of medical supplies- the Q calls a “getter” and says “AO team needs stuff, can you find/ get it?”
            If yes, then “take it to dead drop B by X time”.
            The “getter” then gets his guys together, finds the stuff, and acquires it by the necessary means.

            So, obviously, it’s dependent on some sort of reliable comms, and a good network, but it sure seems more efficient for resupply of active units than hoping the local sympathizers in that town have some spare stuff. And, I think (which means this is probably total BS…. Lol) this totally solves the issue of people feeling forced to part with their supplies, or individually having to worry about getting separated from their “stash”. It would be more like a “make an investment now and help as much as you can afterwards if we can’t gather/barter/capture enough stuff” and it will either all mesh, and as stated end up with people willingly sharing stuff around, or if it all falls apart, you hopefully won’t have created to many backstabbers all to willing to lead the Persians to you because they feel like you took their stuff.

            On a side note, I think this may have the side effect of splitting the “active units” into two parts (per Randy’s first comment)- you’d have the guys “out there” making life miserable long term for whoever we’re fighting, and then the folks that are used for more direct action type missions- your “getters”. The line troops, if you will. The folks that are too fit and tactically proficient to afford to sit out in a straight Q/Aux. role, but not up to the level of an AO team. The local team that could be called to take out a control point so an AO convoy can come through, sabotage a fuel depot to stop enemy vehicles, or a power plant for a HVT the AO team is going to be attacking, or raid the local regime headquarters to gain access to intel or supplies.
            If anyone here has ever watched “Defiance” the raid on the local Nazi HQ to disable their comms for the main (Russian) resistance force, as well as capture med supplies is what I’m getting at here.


            “IMO #1 hasn’t even been reached yet. People are bickering over the stupidest topics these days and people feed into the most absurd krapp posted everywhere…

            Ain’t that the truth. Even when they’re supposed to be on the same side. :scratch:

          • #59115
            Max
            Keymaster

              This comment was by quietman, not Max?glitch from the forum changeover?

              JARG, you just described the area command and its function. Add Command, Control, and Communication (C3) and it’s pretty complete.

              Looking back at my post, I think I was unclear: I wasn’t talking about sharing personal stuff willy-nilly/looting your neighbor, I MEANT the loot you haul off from operations. Top off your mags but get the rest into supply channels. Keep it dispersed and cached until there is a functioning area command, or whatever its called.

              And the book “Defiance” is a great read, with a lot of good info on running a band of partisans. It doesn’t gloss over the tough issues, either.

              Mosby has a good set of articles on this on his site.

              Here’s a fairly current overview.

              U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center Leader’s Handbook on Unconventional Warfare

              Money quote:

              “Developing guerrilla elements is relatively easy; keeping them alive is much harder. Trying to jump ahead to developing guerrillas is like trying to build the upper floors of a house before laying the foundation.”

            • #59116
              Corvette
              Participant

                Sourdough?

                I would like to see this topic get some solid feedback and civil discussion. I will state that I do not agree with Max Velocity on this issue. And I feel that MV and other trainers have themselves to blame for pissing on those who fail to subscribe to their way of thinking.

                I have learned a lot from reading MVT blog and the blogs of other tactical trainers. And I thank them for that.

                It has stuck in my craw every time one of them disses the Preppers. And it is not…..even the least bit cryptic. When I joined this MVT Forum I had two burning questions:

                1.) How do you know the good guys from the bad guys…..??? And I still do not have an answer that I am comfortable with. Which leaves me with the default of either avoid all human contact or if that is not an option naturalize the threat if it appears feasible.

                2.) Second burning question is where does the resupplies come from for the fighters/SUT…….???? Well, I am not the brightest pumpkin in the pumpkin patch……However I figure one source of food if your wife and children are starving to death is take-it from those scum-bag preppers. I mean it is no leap at all if your team is starving, your children are sick and malnourished your going to do what you have to do. You might ask first, you might beg next, you might threaten next. But no matter how noble and Christian the SUT see’s it’s self at some point the survival of their love’ones is more important than those scum-bag SNIPER preppers on the mountain in their retreat.

                Now this is how I see the chess board today. The KNIGHTS (The trainers) and SUT’s are saying you preppers need our services. The preppers are saying, We do not need you. Yes, you have skills but your low on ammo, and starving…… You NEED US, we have lots of food and ammo, and those damn snipers you have been bitching about. And even if we gave a damn, you have spent years bad-mouthing the preppers in their retreats with those damn snipers, hoarding food, clothing, ammo, warm boots, etc..

                While I do NOT have a dog in this fight. I do blame MV and others for creating this open hostility. A Hostility that has cost them.

              • #59117
                Former Sapper
                Participant

                  Edit: Not worth the argument.

                • #59118
                  Baldrick
                  Participant

                    You have two different philsophies here, which of course will result in polar opposite viewpoints and can result in hostility (of course, it’s the internet, what else do you expect?)

                    What is a prepper’s goal? I’m not being insulting here, let’s continue the civility. A prepper’s goal doesn’t really extend any further than himself, and maybe his family. A well invested prepper has his own remote BOL, ammo, food, and perhaps static defenses. Great.

                    A militia/tactical team’s goal is entirely different. A prepper-only type doesn’t do team, because it doesn’t help them achieve their goals (in their minds), which is merely survival. They want to hide/avoid all contact. A militia/team is concerned with survival as well, but that is only the beginning. That is step one of what they train for. After surviving an initial SHTF event, be it tyranny, invasion, natural disaster, etc they are seeking to set up bases, and begin to dominate the AO via patrolling and eventually drive out the enemy or conduct a sustained insurgency. That’s a lot of extra steps that will take years that doesn’t involve sitting in your cabin waiting for the world to unscrew itself.

                    Max criticizes that philosophy because it is short sighted. I see his point (and see yours as well). Max isn’t saying we are going to come take your stuff for the war effort, he is saying someone will eventually because a static position manned by a few people will get romped, stomped, and tromped all over by even a mediocre team. It is just the way of things. Max’s type teams aren’t the ones you need to worry about. It’s the people that Max’s teams will be fighting you need to worry about.

                    The real question is, if you have the choice of contributing via technical expertise, resources, or knowledge/training or logistics management or communications to a team that is happy and willing to help with the short term (survival, resources management) and long term (driving out the invaders, regaining AO security to keep your family safe better than you can, and winning the country back) why would you not do that? I think you are getting the wrong answers because you are asking the wrong questions. I was at an overnight FTX this weekend. There were guys there that are shooter for sure, and lots of them weren’t that great at shooting. But there were several older or disabled vets, some with wives, etc, whose role was supply management and running the camps, etc while the fit younger guys were out shooting. We came in from patrolling and had hot chow and a secure base camp, how cool is that?

                    It’s a marked difference in the objectives, as I said. It’s not about how you suck, or I’m going to take your stuff. It’s about how can you help the overall movement with your area of expertise or preparedness? If you can’t get past “protecting me and my stuff is all that matters” then you will be exactly useless when the chips are down and this country needs you. I’m NOT saying you should just putt all your preps on pallets and offer it to every gang with guns that wants it. I’m saying think about how you can contribute to the security of the AO, not just your own. If you haven’t read Patriot Dawn, I suggest you do so because it’s a good illustration of the necessity of the auxiliary. The sustained rural insurgency conducted in the book is entirely enabled by a well organized auxiliary machine.

                    I hope this is food for thought, and again I appreciate the civility.

                    Baldrick

                  • #59119
                    Corvette
                    Participant

                      with Bergmann back, why showing as anonymous?

                      I think if one really knows themselves and if one has really put in the time to examine their own situation then they should know where they stand in the larger picture of things to come. If, by now, someone hasn’t figured out their options, you need to get with it. IMO there are too many people running with the herd and not thinking for themselves inside their own situation. I’m not “Militia” and I’m not a “prepper”. I’m a Survivalist.

                      I’m not foolish enough to block myself up in a bunker tomb and think Ill survive the hoards of HAVE NOTS, and at the other end of things I’m not foolish enough to think one man will make a difference if Alaska gets invaded. I’m what works best for my situation. That situation being of one man and a plan to live. I see the future as a fluid event that I have no control over and to that I will remain adaptable and open minded to what I have to do as it comes.

                      If that means taking shots at Chi-Coms once a month from high ridges with my Nagant then disappearing into the beyond of the mnts, so be it. Or if that means I hide up in an abandoned mine shaft for as long as possible, so be it. Who knows If its invasion that will cause the hammer to drop. What if the ships stop coming to Alaska for some reason? Ak would rip itself apart. I might get a group of refugees looking to me for help Ill end up grouping up with them. No one knows PERIOD…Its said that only dead fish go with the flow. That’s wrong, or is it? Perspective… Who is anyone else to decide whats best for me?

                      If I get a team maybe it will be more. If you (anyone) dont agree, tough, its of no consequence to me. I ruck up and train regardless. I’m not going to stand around and cry, pout or moan about who thinks what or who hasn’t answered my questions for me. I’m answering my own questions.

                      I dont ask anyone to agree and I dont fault people for having other opinions of a non slanderous nature. Its all about perspective. You haven’t sat down and examined my strategic situation, you dont know me or Alaska. No one is more qualified to dictate what is best for you other then you. That’s goes for everyone. Judging by the amount of replies in the “Who Is Alone Out There ” thread, I think loners out number the organized. Think about that.

                      What I dont get is why there is a debate over what is best and what is not. What I dont get is why ppl are not out there doing what they need to do and training the best way they see fit for themselves and bring back results to share..

                      Bergmann

                    • #59120
                      Former Sapper
                      Participant

                        What I dont get is why there is a debate over what is best and what is not. What I dont get is why ppl are not out there doing what they need to do and training the best way they see fit for themselves and bring back results to share..

                        Bergmann

                        Bingo. If you want to be alone, great, share with us some tips that’ll help others but if you want to organise and network now is the time.

                      • #59121
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          @ Baldrick: thank you for your considered and well written response. You explained it better than I did, or thought I had done.

                          I thought my post was clear. We are all ‘preppers’ of some sort, and this is not about ‘SUT guys’ looting stuff off the ‘selfish preppers.’ This is not about making enemies of preppers. In Sourdough’s case, it appears to be alienating him, probably as a result of him hearing what he wants to hear, inferring what he wants to infer, and at the end of the day not listening to what is being said.

                          (@ Sourdough: this post/thread is not about you, so don’t hijack it with negativity – if you take it too far it will be deleted).

                          But the bandaid needs to be ripped off this whole selfish rugged individual thing. I have written before that we are all selfish preppers unless we have team. That’s the default setting for SHTF without allies; unless we can make those SUT teams and those auxiliary folks. This is not about SUT guys vs. preppers, that is outright ludicrous. It speaks from paranoia. But there will be a lot of ‘SUT guys,’ of varying skills, who are actually bad guys. They will roll up the individual preppers, unless they are very well hidden.

                          That’s the only way I will get my hands on a selfish prepper’s supplies – when I ambush the zombies driving it off down the road after they have killed the prepper, his family, and stolen his stash.

                          Which leads me to Sourdough’s other question: “Who are the Good/Bad Guys?”

                          Well, isn’t it obvious? This weekend I was asked to demonstrate exactly how I actually go prone when conducting fire and movement. I had never thought about it before, other than “I’m up, he sees me, get on the effing ground!” Well obviously some things are not obvious.

                          If they are doing you, or innocents, harm, then they are bad guys. If they are not conducting themselves in a morally upright manner, with truth and justice, adhering to natural law, then they are bad guys. None of the previous disallows extreme kinetic activity when called for. It does not preclude hard decisions or desperate times.

                          You must also never forget that people will be desperate. To the retreat sniper I say this: when a ragged hopeless family appears on your land, clutching their starving young children, crossing your property line, that does not justify killing them at long range. Some who would act thus, who think they are good guys (many preppers?) will actually be the worst kind of murderers, through fear and paranoia. Again, that does not preclude an aggressive kinetic response against bands of hostile looters or an identified threat. How about warning signs?

                          Most of those questions preppers pose to themselves, such as when the bad guys send a little girl to your door to case the joint, also along the lines of the ridiculous talk I hear about whether the SEALs should have killed the Shepherds or not, are morally offensive. No, you don’t kill the shepherds, your mission is compromised, extract. No you don’t kill the little girl, because you should have a team and a defensive perimeter that no bad guy sniper and little girl can threaten with such a ruse. What about your ground domination patrols to keep the surrounding AO clear of threats? Your OPs?

                          If you are a good guy, you want to protect the innocent and the weak, as best you can without harming your own close interests: family and tribe. You won’t sell your life cheaply because you need to be around to protect that family/tribe. But, you know that if you have to put it on the line for the good of yours, you will, without hesitation. However, if it comes to it, you will make those bad guys pay. Sell it dearly.

                          Go watch an episode or two of ‘The Lone Ranger.’ I think that makes the good guy position clear enough, right? Truth, Justice and The American Way.

                        • #59122
                          RRS
                          Participant

                            Key word, “society”, preferably one that we would recognize as normal and functioning. BeeHive Team 6 probably has a restraining order warning him to stay a mile away from any school.

                            On a tangent in Bracken’s last book he had a SFer who was conducting raids in the territory his auxiliary was located. I thought doing so was counter productive since it brought the heat of the unscrupulous regime right down upon the populace itself. I thought it would have been more productive for Vikerson to have conducted raids in already “pacified” territory there for binding the security apparatus down to that area and hopefully in a heavy handed way.

                          • #59123
                            Corvette
                            Participant

                              Sourdough?

                              Max Velocity, This is what sucks about FORUMS. If I don’t brown nose the leader’s BOT (Basic Operating Theory)…..he threatens to delete my posts. So man’up and Ban Me.

                              Clearly you are not interested in civil discussion of any issue. Will I pout and cry for being banned….??? Not going to happen. I once went 6 months with NO human contact back in the early 70’s.

                              I really have very little relevant information to offer here, because my prospective is just not relevant. I forget that most people see other humans, even live with them. I see a human about once a week, if I have to sign for a package, requiring me to come off my mountain and meet the U.S. Mailman. Otherwise I go to town for supplies every 6 or 8 weeks.

                              Nothing I could post is very relevant to other members……I seriously request that you BANISH me for life from your forum. It is spring time in Alaska and there is work to be done by the few remaining men living a subsistence lifestyle.

                              I think you are very skilled at what you do, And I know that I am very skilled at what I do.

                              HELL, Mr. Bergmann has Banned me twice from his forum

                            • #59124
                              Former Sapper
                              Participant

                                Max Velocity, This is what sucks about FORUMS. If I don’t brown nose the leader’s BOT (Basic Operating Theory)…..he threatens to delete my posts. So man’up and Ban Me.

                                Blah blah me me me.

                                Clearly you are not interested in civil discussion of any issue. Will I pout and cry for being banned….??? Not going to happen.

                                Come in to my house and shit on my carpet when the grown ups are talking and you’d be punished too.

                                Blah blah drivel drivel me me me

                              • #59125
                                Baldrick
                                Participant

                                  Disagreement doesn’t equal negativity. There are plenty of differing viewpoints here already and that’s fine. You are here, and you have started threads and asked questions, and we are trying to answer them and explain our philosophy as best we can. You’ve already disagreed plenty here and that’s fine, you’re obviously still here and aren’t banned. No need to overreact. But if you live by yourself, avoid contact with other humans, and have no intention of changing your mind or working with a team, why post here besides being interested in the philosophy this forum is about?

                                  I hope you’re heard some different thoughts you may not have considered before and will continue to absorb. There are some real experts here.

                                • #59126
                                  Max
                                  Keymaster

                                    Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                    Max made some spot on points above. I’ll just add/echo a few of my own.

                                    I have long term food stored away, and continue to add to it. Same with Medical supplies, clothing, etc…. Each of my group of friends has done/is doing the same. We jointly have things in place/in development for long term sustainable food…. i.e.- large gardens, livestock, etc… All so that we don’t go hungry individually, or collectively, thus negating needing to “take” food from anyone. Anyone who isn’t actively doing this is a fool at best. We could eventually be a small link in a larger chain down the road if need be.

                                    Bad guys are the ones doing bad things. Don’t over think this. Its really pretty simple.

                                  • #59127
                                    Corvette
                                    Participant

                                      Max Velocity, This is what sucks about FORUMS. If I don’t brown nose the leader’s BOT (Basic Operating Theory)…..he threatens to delete my posts. So man’up and Ban Me.

                                      Clearly you are not interested in civil discussion of any issue. Will I pout and cry for being banned….??? Not going to happen. I once went 6 months with NO human contact back in the early 70′s.

                                      I really have very little relevant information to offer here, because my prospective is just not relevant. I forget that most people see other humans, even live with them. I see a human about once a week, if I have to sign for a package, requiring me to come off my mountain and meet the U.S. Mailman. Otherwise I go to town for supplies every 6 or 8 weeks.

                                      Nothing I could post is very relevant to other members……I seriously request that you BANISH me for life from your forum. It is spring time in Alaska and there is work to be done by the few remaining men living a subsistence lifestyle.

                                      I think you are very skilled at what you do, And I know that I am very skilled at what I do.

                                      HELL, Mr. Bergmann has Banned me twice from his forum

                                      And you’re banned by me here too.

                                      Bergmann

                                    • #59128
                                      Thomas
                                      Participant

                                        “And you’re banned by me here too.

                                        Bergmann”

                                        Sourdough is an extremist. However, we who are not extremists of this type can learn some things from him about people who are extremists. He made some interesting points that should be considered. Among them:
                                        – working with some people is impossible. options will be limited when attempting to interact with this type person. while sourdough lives in AK, his type is everywhere we live and work. he is as big a threat as any JBT that is likely to cross our collective path. have a primary, alternate, tertiary plan to deal with this person.
                                        – this person may or not have relevant information. understanding what motivates them to cooperate is critical to insuring that you get the important information that they possess. the counter guerrilla will be working this guy to get everything he can on you. know when to fish and when to cut bait.
                                        – this type person is difficult to absorb into a group because of his personality. consider how absorbing some one like this after SHTF might affect your team or community. extreme individualism is contrary to team, tribe, community.
                                        – remember that everybody you come into contact with has something that you need/require to make your mission and get home. That may be something small like access to their well or something more pressing like medical aid or their silence. while the person may not be your your friend, they also may not be your enemy. identify what it is that you require, know how to ask for it, and have a plan to maintain neutrality where that gets you home.

                                        We need to study this guy, or someone like him in much greater detail. I understand that disruptive members are a problem, but, we need to understand this type of mindset and the best way to do that is to get it directly.

                                      • #59129
                                        Former Sapper
                                        Participant

                                        • #59130
                                          DiznNC
                                          Participant

                                            Well shiiiit. First banned dude. You know, I just have to say, guys like this have already voted with their feet. Living on a fucking mtn in AK is about as far away from society as you can get, so I don’t know what more you would expect to hear from him, other than his lone wolf schtick. That’s his choice, he’s not going to be any help, you’re not going to change his mind, hell I don’t know why he even bothered coming here.

                                            In the end, Max is right. If you’re not willing to pitch in for the common good, you’re not gonna last very long all by yourself. It takes a community to feed and defend itself. And if the government won’t leave us alone, then we fight for our freedom. That’s the choice I make. If you don’t agree, then ban yourself.

                                          • #59131
                                            Max
                                            Keymaster

                                              Note: This is not Max’s response/content. Just a glitch from the transition to subscription.

                                              A couple of good articles. You know when Cracked Magazine is getting in on it, it’s going to be good/bad.

                                              http://www.cracked.com/article_21029_6-unexpected-things-i-learned-resisting-nazis-in-wwii.html

                                              http://www.cracked.com/article_20937_6-insane-things-you-learn-overthrowing-your-own-government_p2.html

                                            • #59132
                                              Corvette
                                              Participant

                                                Fantastic Links Randy.. especially the second one, Gives one a lot of good ideas

                                              • #59133
                                                Pericles
                                                Participant

                                                  I consider “preppers” such as were mentioned here as free riders. It appears they intend to sit it out while other put society back together for them. Heed Thomas Paine – “Those who expect to reap the blessings of liberty, must like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.”

                                                • #59134
                                                  Corvette
                                                  Participant

                                                    Let’s not go too hard on preppers after all the courses are designed to teach tactics to the prepper population.

                                                    There are different defintions of prepper and situations people might find themselevs in.

                                                    Not everythng can be about resisting tyranny there are many other situations conceivable where tactics for civilians are important and useful. :bye:

                                                  • #59135
                                                    Baldrick
                                                    Participant

                                                      That is the whole point of tactical team training IMO. The biggest reason to move beyond tacticool square range CQB wannabe dynamic entry SWAT training is the narrow philosophy of use. SUT is applicable to resisting tyranny or insurgency to be sure, but also to resisting foreign invasion, protecting a city or town or neighborhood or homestead from looters, or securing an AO in an extended grid down/SHTF situation or even just something like a hurricane. Patrolling, contact, OPs and logistics work across the board for a variety of applications. Who better to get this type of training than preppers? We are all preppers to some degree. Perhaps a distiction between Joe Blow preppers and “retreat sniper/killer bee hive IED hermits” should be made.

                                                    • #59136
                                                      Corvette
                                                      Participant

                                                        Exactly.
                                                        I dont want us to sound anti-prepper because we are not.. we are all preppers to some extent or another :)

                                                      • #59137
                                                        JustARandomGuy
                                                        Participant

                                                          Exactly.<br>
                                                          I dont want us to sound anti-prepper because we are not.. we are all preppers to some extent or another :)

                                                          Well said- if you’re here, it means you’ve decided to prepare yourself better for whatever may be coming, in which case, you are a prepper….

                                                          Unfortunately the numbskulls on doomsday preppers have accomplished exactly what the folks at Nat. Geo. wanted, and now “prepper” is a word immediately met with derision. Much like the term “militia”… but I digress. :wacko:

                                                        • #59138
                                                          gramma
                                                          Participant

                                                            So I’m bumping this up again, because I would generally fall into auxiliary. Not that I couldn’t train and be able to go out in some action, if I was needed — but because there are more qualified and capable people than me.

                                                            But agriculture, food preservation & prep and the logistics of transportation/comms is what supports those guys, right? So that’s important; and timing wise – I’d say now is the time to start putting some extra by specifically to “donate to the cause”. Weather is starting to become an issue in some places, with getting any harvest at all. So, everyone should grow something and try to cover their own family’s needs. And if you have extra – secure it for that rainy day when someone else might need it.

                                                            That bit out of the way, I’d like to point out that the founding fathers weren’t just soldiers or just farmers. They were BOTH. Modern society has gotten so accustomed to this idea of specialization and it is precisely that inability to be a jack or jill of all trades that is a huge vulnerability to surviving what most (those paying attention) realize is coming at us. So, I might not be the best shot – but I can generally hit what I’m aiming at… and maybe my bread making skills are more important. Or my sneaky mind, coming up with well-disguised caches. Or my ability to add two facts and come up with a probability of what they mean. We can all do pretty good at all things, while we excel at certain things. That’s the way it used to be, when things worked.

                                                            So, the supply chain is still running – albeit kinda thin some times. Walmart’s stopping 24/7 store hours and laying off 1000 people. The economy is one small nudge from going into a landslide to something only the oldest will remember. RIGHT NOW, is when we need to drop in on those neighbors… and see where they stand and how their garden did this year and if they’re butchering a hog or two this winter.

                                                            Right now, is when we need to expand our storage areas to be able to put back as much as possible of the necessities. While we still can. And yes, we need to be ready to defend that — and expect our neighbors to call (and return the favor) to defend theirs. If there are organized teams in the area that are “right minded” – why wouldn’t we support them and help them as much as possible.

                                                            That individualistic paranoid mindset was born in the competition of the urban workplace and suburban status symbol conscious country clubs. The country folk never stopped cooperating with each other and helping everyone make a go of it. And they’ve got some time-tested tactics to add to your bag o’ tricks.

                                                            Just sayin’.

                                                          • #59139
                                                            Max
                                                            Keymaster

                                                              In general terms, the auxiliary is going to be more important, most of the time. You need to eat everyday, but you don’t (and shouldn’t if you want to last) fight every day.

                                                            • #59140
                                                              RRS
                                                              Participant

                                                                Dare I say Mosby IMO is on the correct path, and may I say his second volume of his RP is well worth the money. I say that for the most part because we are basically still tied to the machine of urban/suburban economy and must operate in that environment. That environment takes intelligence work and that means meat space face to face and not posting paranoid martial law is now posts over at WRSA and calling it “resistance.”

                                                              • #59141
                                                                gramma
                                                                Participant

                                                                  RRS, you’re right about face to face time where ever you are. I’m doing a whole lot of thinking lately, about this topic. Who is this Mosby you speak of, and is there a link that will let me read where he’s coming from?

                                                                • #59142
                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                  Moderator

                                                                    Time for another look.

                                                                  • #59143
                                                                    wildbill
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      Questions that need to be asked and answered by each of us now to set the foundation for how we will behave when the SHTF. Depending on how you answer those questions you may find Max’s MVT Code of Conduct something for which to strive.

                                                                    • #59144
                                                                      zeerf
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        Time for another look.

                                                                        indeed!

                                                                        Depending on how you answer those questions you may find Max’s MVT Code of Conduct something for which to strive.

                                                                        :good:

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