Troubles over At WRSA

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  • This topic has 42 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 3 months ago by Max. This post has been viewed 79 times
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    • #72597
      Max
      Keymaster

        Looks like I am making myself unpopular with the WRSA gang. No more WRSA re-posts for Max V methinks!

        Max V: Target Indication

        Gotta go to sleep, got a 5 day class in the morning.

        My latest/last comment to Outlaw Patriot is awaiting moderation. I will post it below I am simply very disappointed. OutlawPatriot trained last month on CRCD and he had a great time and announced he was coming back. I like him. WRSA has been very good to me, and many of you found me through WRSA. However, I won’t tolerate this kind of BS, and if that is the sort of comment I get on a video that WRSA put up (not by my asking) then I would prefer to not be re-posted in future. Sean shat all over the video that was appended to a post on target indication, without context or relevant knowledge. That is about the level I would expect from a tacticool apologist or regime operative, not someone at WRSA.

        Max V: Target Indication

        Her is the comment awaiting moderation:

        outlawpatriot | April 4, 2014 at 19:45 | Reply
        Mmm… Max. I don’t think it prudent to call Sean an ignoramus. The man is loved by many of us here. Not good for business if you know what I mean.

        At the end of the day it will be the Vietnam vet that I will put the most faith in. And Sean is at the top of my list.

        Max Velocity | April 4, 2014 at 23:13 | Reply
        Your comment is awaiting moderation.
        No.
        I really am unconcerned. I know that you have trained with me, and you know what happens on the CRCD weekends. I find it interesting that you would defend Sean, with his gratuitously uninformed judgment on a video of some students training that wasn’t even part of the post on target indication. Any comments from Sean on the target indication post, or should target indication all be done by hand signal?
        In reality, I am not concerned by your reference to criticism of Sean being ‘bad for business.’ I am concerned by standards and truth. Doing what is right. You may ‘love’ Sean, and he may be as you mention a Vietnam Vet. I know nothing of that or of what his specific experience is or even how relevant it is, and I am not part of whatever clan you have as an offshoot of WRSA,
        I know what my training and experience is and I know the quality of the training that I put out.
        This comment stream angers me. It is wrong.
        I will judge Sean purely on the basis of what I see, which is those ill considered comments on that training video. I would ask you to scroll down and read some of the other comments.
        I am disappointed that you would decide that what he has said is right, even having recently trained on my CRCD class, and having announced that you would come back.
        Don’t tell me not to state the truth because it is bad for ‘business.’ My business is quality tactical/light infantry training, which I will continue to produce.
        Now, I have no more time for this, I have a five day class starting in a few hours. If anyone feels that Sean’s comments are accurate, then quite simply: to hell with you.

      • #72598
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          It would be interesting to see Sean’s DD214, many a Vietnam Super Warrior is not what they claim to be. He maybe a poser type or maybe just senile.

          I for a long time have avoided the comments section at WRSA because of stuff like this.

          I note with interest that the Forum here has exceeded the 5500 user mark, don’t think their re-posts matter.

          Look forward to training with you in the future.

        • #72599
          Corvette
          Participant

            I wouldnt overly weight to all this..
            Normal internet interaction/argument, fog of internet BS.

            You got some guys giving excellent fire support ..

          • #72600
            Max
            Keymaster

              WRSA….. 2 years ago, my personal friend, and well known poster at WRSA, Matt Bracken, posted about mine and Diz’s gear/business. We got dumped all over 10 ways from Sunday right out of the gate, with all kinds of idiotic comments from folks who had never touched a piece of our gear. I have no use for WSRA.

            • #72601
              Former Sapper
              Participant

                CA is good people, I doubt that he’ll hold it against you. This is just a classic clash of cultures, WRSA has their own culture and we here on the MVT forums have our own way of doing things.

                Now where people are starting to stumble is that they’re blindly accepting someone’s word as gospel without having that person furnish qualifications. I will never ever do this.

                Would you for example, me being a Sapper (a private!) expect me to teach air assault? What about armoured warfare? A weekend on amphibious assault perhaps? No. I know none of these things and so you can in fact consider me and anything I say about these to be full of shit.

                Now it may turn out that Sean is some sort of SF gut eater and is thoroughly qualified to make calls like that, that’s good, that means more expertise for people to absorb and listen to.

                Now I’m not saying Max is full of shit but when he says something people should absolutely be fact checking him and the same applies to me or anyone else offering advice and or expertise. Fact check, verify and if necessary call BS and confront the person offering wrong advice and believe me if I catch anyone (including Max) offering BS advice he’ll be called on it. I expect nothing less from any of you guys towards me.

                Cliff notes:

                1. If you want to criticise expect to be asked about your qualificatons
                2. Always fact check people, this isn’t a game, this could be the difference between YOUR life and death. Literally.
                3. Don’t be afraid to confront someone but do so respectfully.
                4. Don’t hero worship. Everyone is fallible.

              • #72602
                DuaneH
                Participant

                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                • #72603
                  Max
                  Keymaster

                    It’s a shame. Much as CA is good people, he doesn’t control the (many) idiots who comment. I have learned that free speech is one thing, but you have to moderate comments, particularly if you want things to be constructive.
                    Sean may be the guy who took Ho Chi Minh down in a knife/grenade fight, buy his comments are ill inconsidered, inaccurate and lack a basic understanding of training.
                    I have had many bad experiences from commenters over there many of the retreat sniper/extreme individual type

                  • #72604
                    Corvette
                    Participant

                      Sean may be the guy who took Ho Chi Minh down in a knife/grenade fight, buy his comments are ill inconsidered, inaccurate and lack a basic understanding of training.

                      This is what it comes down to.
                      Lot’s of well credentialed people out there who still post junk due to either a) the fog of the internet or b) intellectual laziness

                    • #72605
                      Former Sapper
                      Participant

                        It’s a shame. Much as CA is good people, he doesn’t control the (many) idiots who comment.

                        Yep, agreed on that. What makes me laugh is that for all of their claims about being rugged individuals there is a lot of group think amongst them.

                        I have learned that free speech is one thing, but you have to moderate comments, particularly if you want things to be constructive.<br>

                        Again, agreed. Bad advice and dickheads should be confronted and either corrected to stop them from persisting rumours, innuendo or just plain wrong facts or removed from commenting altogether. I’d expect nothing less from any of you towards me but then maybe I have thicker skin and take constructive criticism and corrections to things I have wrong as a cheap lesson learned. :scratch:

                      • #72607
                        DiznNC
                        Participant

                          This is some sad shit. Instead of banding together we are fighting each other, for no apparent reason. I thought WRSA was one of the top patriot forums but this kind of narrow-minded crap kills their credibility with me. As Hawkeye said, we were slagged over there by guys saying our gear was over-priced bullshit. This coming from some asshole who probably wouldn’t spend more than .25 on a mag pouch at the Goodwill or wherever.

                          And I don’t understand why the gratuitous comments about Max’s training being shit. What’s the thinking here? Just tearing someone else down for the attention or what?

                          Bottom line, let’s see who is out in the bush training, and who’s just sitting behind the keyboard sharp-shooting. I’d like to see that motherfucker out in the bush showing us how it’s all done.

                        • #72608
                          JohnyMac
                          Participant

                            While reading Sean’s rant the old adage we have all heard a thousand times came to mind “Correct in private-Praise in public” This adage may not be perfect for the battle field; However it is right on target when someone is sitting in their easy chair, a beer at hand and their laptop in…well, their lap.

                            Whatever…I have no time for drama and Drama Queens. Life’s too short. ;-) Move on Max, you and your pose are doing a very good job! :good:

                          • #72609
                            Corvette
                            Participant

                              Max, when I saw that post, I immediately asked myself why this person was commenting. At first (to give the benefit of the doubt) I thought he was trying to be helpful in pointing out technical errors, even though that was not the point of the video. But reading through the entire comment it was quite clear his goal was to produce a negative critical comment, not to educate. I had the same thought as Jeff: gee, I would LOVE to see the place he conducts HIS classes, must be really special.

                              WRSA has some significant issues, especially surrounding the Kerodin acolytes. This Kerodin felon is constantly taking shots at Mike Vanderbough (Sipsey Street Irregulars; the guy who, along with David Codrea, is the reason we ever heard of Fast & Furious), who has done more for this country than a great many people.

                              There is a strong ‘clanish’ quality to the ‘Patriot’ community in some sectors, much like the rest of society. As I have frequently observed in my clinical work, sick people attract sick people. Groups coalesce around leaders and others whose “sickness” (or pathology) fits with their own. By observing a person’s thoughts, words, and actions, you learn who they are. I told you that I knew a lot about your character from reading your writings, and the CRCD class in December confirmed my initial impressions. There are others within the ‘Patriot’ community whom I would be quite reluctant to trust, much less rely on.

                              Meanwhile, I eagerly await Sean’s books and training classes. That way all of the bad habits I picked up in WV at Maxland can be corrected :scratch: .

                            • #72610
                              Thomas
                              Participant

                                ApoloDoc is correct: thoughts, words, and actions.

                                You all are wasting time on Sean. He may be a good guy who put the wrong foot forward. I don’t know. Furthermore, I don’t care. Max addressed Sean’s points. Move on to what is important. Get proficient with your rifle and get proficient with you small unit tactics.

                                In a firefight, after making contact, you must fix the opfor so that you can maneuver on their position. Leaving out a lot of fine points, you then close with and destroy or bypass them so that you can clean them up later. Sean’s position is now fixed. Bypass him for more high value targets. You can clean him up later.

                              • #72611
                                D Close
                                Moderator

                                  Thomas, excellent metaphor, well said. Cheers to the warriors training tonight in the hills. Not just in WV, but all doing the thankless, hard work for liberty. Those are my brothers and sisters. :good:

                                • #72612
                                  M1-Guy
                                  Participant

                                    I have followed this this thread and discussion all day and thought I would throw my 2 cents in. First I am nobody special and have none of the experience that many here have. I am trying to be in contact with like minded people, absorb information and be a student of Max. My goal is to learn and pick up enough skills and knowledge to give myself and family a fighting chance when the reboot occurs.

                                    Now that I have qualified myself (as having no qualifications), in my profession (CPA) I have learned that “words mean things”. No matter how well or poorly said, when spoken/written the speaker is telling you volumes. It is clear that Sean, knowingly or unknowingly, made an analysis without anywhere near the info needed to come to the conclusions he came to. Max corrected him point by point. Sean should have taken a deep breath and gracefully found a way to remove his foot from his mouth. He and his friends didn’t and the defensive justifications and commentary ensued.

                                    Max is and should be proud of his “product”. I have not taken CRCD yet (slotted in the August class), however from the AAR’s, blog, commentary here and email discussions with others that have, it won’t happen soon enough.

                                    If Max reads this my advice is to let your results do the talking. You have responded to Sean. Done. Clearly the quality and professionalism of your classes/books/forum/blog and perhaps most importantly, the AAR’s prove that you are doing something very right. As stated above maneuver past him and I would further suggest there is nothing to clean up.

                                    One of the things I am enjoying about this forum is it is on point and on topic. We all need to work to keep it that way.

                                  • #72613
                                    RRS
                                    Participant

                                      There must be a protocol for addressing issues in the team room, it comes to mind that the team room could be one of the more dangerous areas for combat personal.

                                    • #72614
                                      JustARandomGuy
                                      Participant

                                        “…This is some sad shit. Instead of banding together we are fighting each other, for no apparent reason….”

                                        Indeed. This is what I keep saying- honestly I don’t understand it. Unless it’s a real important issue that needs to be worked out, who cares?!?! I have an opinion, you have an opinion, we don’t agree- fine, drive on.
                                        Honestly, BS like this really worries me- with half the folks in the “patriot” community apparently itching to kick off the festivities, I honestly wonder how long it would be before it all fell apart and we started fighting each other? Can you imagine? One good argument over whose tactics are better and the “New American Revolution” dies in a week, because people split up over some feels. What a crock…
                                        :insertangrysmilieshere:

                                        Max-
                                        I’m reminded of a a story about Miyamoto Musashi.
                                        Once upon a time he was out in a boat crossing a lake with another swordsman. Upon learning who he was, the other swordsman challenged Musashi to a duel. He was so eager to fight, that he demanded that they travel over to a small island in the lake and duel immediately.
                                        Musashi agreed, and they paddled over to the island. As soon as they reached the island, the other swordsman leaped out of the boat and ran up on the shore, only to find that Musashi had pushed off the boat and was calmly paddling away.

                                        Moral of the story- Fighting critics is like fighting zombies- you shoot one down, the others hear the shot and come running.
                                        At the end of the day if you go home and you know that you taught genuine real material in the class, and did so as best as you possibly could, does it really matter?
                                        Let ’em talk.
                                        I mean, seriously- who’s going to cover grenade usage in a “level 1” class? :scratch:

                                      • #72615
                                        Corvette
                                        Participant

                                          ONE BRIEF THOUGHT FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION:

                                          The factors in our current society that lead to “troll” or “interwebz argument” posts (eg Sean’s attack on Max & MVT) are the same factors that lead to the NEED for what Max is teaching!

                                          Ponder this.

                                        • #72616
                                          Max
                                          Keymaster

                                            Funny thing about the internetz, every ChuckleMonkey has an opinion and a keyboard. The trick is not to get riled up when a button is pushed. You dont need the groupies of WRSA to approve of what you are doing, they provide good information at times, as does Sipsey Street, but that info comes at a price, and can be a drain. The Resistance is full of cranky malcontents, but its these that did and will again do the heavy lifting when its time to stop talking and do the work that needs to be done. Keep doing what you’re doing. The rest of us can do our best to not add to the BS.

                                          • #72617
                                            George Haystack
                                            Participant

                                              I’ve been reading various liberty blogs for over a decade. Read War On Guns before Sipsey Street even existed. Found WRSA shortly after that. I’ve seen a every variety of conflict from juvenile pissing matches to serious conflicts with legal implications.

                                              At the end of the day, we’re all on the same team. Sure, we’ve got our different opinions and plenty of us have too much ego. But Team Liberty is a good team. It’s a winning team.

                                              The people on Team Tyranny love it when we bust each other’s balls. I’m sure they send provocateurs over here for that very purpose. We need to be bigger than all of it or they will win.

                                              I respect Max for standing up for the truth. Funny thing is that I learned about Max from WRSA. I read both and respect both. In this case Max is probably in the right, but let’s not burn bridges just yet.

                                              When the party starts we’re all going to need to rely on each other.

                                            • #72618
                                              Max
                                              Keymaster

                                                Well said Mr Haystack.

                                              • #72619
                                                Max
                                                Keymaster

                                                  Sean’s background is about average for a grunt of that generation. No claim to specialness, although if he fired the old M202 his balls are bigger than mine.

                                                  I’ve done some work with CA since we met at Max’s. Good guy. I doubt he’ll control comments for a number of good reasons and I’d be disappointed if he did for anything besides threats. They routinely post stuff that’ll get you banned elsewhere. AMHIK. :yahoo:

                                                  I saw a couple of comments on Max’s other site under my real name. If you post stuff on the web, expect it to be shared. MFVmod already edited and scolded me about OPSEC. Which reminds me, we need to get those EEFI published.

                                                  WRSA is a clearinghouse of patriotic mischief. Use it as such.

                                                • #72620
                                                  Yankee Terrier
                                                  Participant

                                                    Max! I think you handled Sean quite well! His style or “ilk” will be common on forums, it just goes with the territory. I found you through WRSA, and have bought EVERY book you have written twice. I intend to bring my son to Romney WV for whatever you will teach us (repeated visits) I wouldn’t give up on WRSA I would more keep in mind the immortal words of P.T. Barnum. “I don’t care what you say about me just spell my name right”. :yahoo:

                                                  • #72621
                                                    Corvette
                                                    Participant

                                                      . The Resistance is full of cranky malcontents, but its these that did and will again do the heavy lifting when its time to stop talking and do the work that needs to be done. .

                                                      I think the above sums it up nicely.
                                                      The type of personalities that are attracted to our view of the world are more, rather than less, likely to be cranky types.

                                                      Just the nature of the beast

                                                    • #72622
                                                      DiznNC
                                                      Participant

                                                        Well I did finally go look at the thread since posting, and I gotta admit, the guy admitted he went off half-cocked, and took his lumps about it.

                                                        While I recognize the fact that the patriot movement includes a bunch of crotchety old fuckers, hell I AM a crotchety old fucker, I still think there’s no need for so much chest-pounding, hair-pulling, and other assorted macho silliness.

                                                      • #72623
                                                        RRS
                                                        Participant

                                                          Last weekend Max asked me why I was so quiet, easy enough to answer, point blank said “I’m paying you to talk.” He might have gotten a bit ruffled but what I meant is that to get the most out of training for the effort and all that I put into it I shut my mouth and absorb what the trainer has to say. It quite easy for a session to be derailed by the trainees, luckily for us that Max has the natural authority to shut that crap up and keep the class focused on the training not the man drama.

                                                        • #72624
                                                          Max
                                                          Keymaster

                                                            I’ve avoided commenting on this here or at WRSA because I really don’t have a dog in this fight. In my opinion what happened between Sean and Max is for them to sort out and it’s none of my business.

                                                            But RRS and Diz both coined a couple of phrases that I think illustrate the heart of why this sort of thing happens:

                                                            Diz: …”chest-pounding, hair-pulling, and other assorted macho silliness.”

                                                            RRS: “…man drama.”

                                                            Anyone who has spent much time in male-dominated cultures such as the military (especially exclusively male areas such as the infantry) is all too familiar with what Diz and RRS so eloquently describe. It would be better if that stuff could be kept at a dull roar, but unfortunately it’s an occupational hazard and the fog of the intardwebz inevitably acts as an aggravating factor.

                                                          • #72625
                                                            Pericles
                                                            Participant

                                                              FWIW, the Vietnam vet militia adulation probably stems from the early days of the militia movement when militia guys looked to the Vietnam vets with admiration for honorable service under bad conditions and the perception that type of experience of the Vietnam vets was the model for militia training. On the part of the vets, being respected by at least this part of society may have lead a few to embellish their experience somewhat for an appreciative audience.

                                                              As far as Sean’s statement about his background and service – I’ll agree that is is normal for an infantryman with those service dates, with this exception: Obtaining Ranger or SF qualification while stationed in Europe is not something that could be done AFIK. Ranger qualification has required attendance at the Infantry School course of instruction since the late 1950s, and SF quit awarding the Green Beret for on the job training late in the Vietnam War, requiring the “Q-course” at the SWC.

                                                              If he has it on his DD-214, it is legit, which is why in our group, any vet needs to be able to show your 214 (or foreign equivalent) when requested.

                                                            • #72626
                                                              Max
                                                              Keymaster

                                                                He wouldn’t have obtained the Additional Skill Identifiers (ASI) for SF and Ranger from those courses. Training was offered in/by units in those days and, IIRC, were noted on documents for official purposes. Shouldn’t be confused with the Q Course and I don’t get the sense Sean was claiming that.

                                                                Way BITD, Ranger training was unit training. I’ve no idea when that ended. Ranger School has always been a formal leadership school with individual awards and an ASI.

                                                                I don’t particularly care about 214s. I’d rather the guy show up and perform. I can’t tell you who will perform in combat, but I can absolutely tell you who won’t: The guy running his mouth about how great he is.

                                                              • #72627
                                                                Max
                                                                Keymaster

                                                                  Not sure if Sean was referring to Platoon Confidence Training (PCT) or something entirely different. PCT was a course run by US Army Europe back in the day. It was run by 10th SFG out of Bad Tolz, FRG, but the actual cadre were on loan from the Ranger Training Brigade. Not sure how one got that gig, but it seemed like a pretty sweet deal.

                                                                  I attended the course in 1986. The purpose of the course was to give non-combat arms platoons a crash course in how to survive and continue to conduct combat operations in the event Europe was overrun by the Soviets and these units now found themselves operating behind enemy lines. However, I believe the intent was to eventually run every platoon in USAREUR through the training. I was a fire team leader in an Airborne rifle platoon at the time and I can tell you that even though the course was intended for combat support and service support units, it was a ball smoker for us as well. Or maybe the cadre just gave us “special” treatment since we were paratroopers. Either way, it was some of the best training I ever got on active duty.

                                                                • #72628
                                                                  Pericles
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Not sure if Sean was referring to Platoon Confidence Training (PCT) or something entirely different. PCT was a course run by US Army Europe back in the day. It was run by 10th SFG out of Bad Tolz, FRG, but the actual cadre were on loan from the Ranger Training Brigade. Not sure how one got that gig, but it seemed like a pretty sweet deal.

                                                                    …………

                                                                    Sean posted: “Went to other schools for CBR, leadership, Special Forces and Ranger (six week courses, offered in Europe)and every damned FTX imaginable. I did other jobs at various times and places I am still not able to recount, citing security reasons. ”

                                                                    I take that as playing to the non combat arms audience. We know where the Ranger and SF courses are conducted – and where they are not. And playing the classified card for good measure……

                                                                  • #72629
                                                                    Max
                                                                    Keymaster

                                                                      I hate to admit it, but Yeager is right on this account. Even haters are good advertising. I’m an instructor in another discipline and when I would get upset about someone talking bad about my training, my mentor reminded me that those leading the way are the most likely to get a knife in the back from those that follow along.

                                                                      Do things to the best of your ability, don’t worry about the ones that don’t matter.

                                                                    • #72630
                                                                      DiznNC
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        In the military we make a big fuss about who has what tab from what school. For our purposes, here and now, that kind of ticket-punching is largely irrelevant. If any good NCO, with light infantry experience, is willing to share his knowledge with me, I am willing to listen. I kinda agree with the sentiment of: don’t care who you were “back in the day”, I care more about what you’re doing now, and how that applies to me.

                                                                        Yes, it’s human nature, a lot of vets I’ve met had “resume inflation” to one degree or another. The funny thing is, I respected them without any embellishment, for what they actually knew, not for what tab or badge or doo-dad they may have had on their uniform.

                                                                        In this particular guy’s case, I think he’s legit. Bad case of running off at the mouth, but then again, he owned up to it.

                                                                        Randy also brings up a good point. I gained much valuable experience OJT in the reserves and ArNG which isn’t from any formal school noted in my active duty DD214. So it’s not a question of my pedigree, ie. being school-trained, as much as it is, what do I actually bring to the table. I imagine there’s lots of guys in my shoes.

                                                                      • #72631
                                                                        Max
                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                          In the military we make a big fuss about who has what tab from what school. For our purposes, here and now, that kind of ticket-punching is largely irrelevant. If any good NCO, with light infantry experience, is willing to share his knowledge with me, I am willing to listen. I kinda agree with the sentiment of: don’t care who you were “back in the day”, I care more about what you’re doing now, and how that applies to me.

                                                                          Yes, it’s human nature, a lot of vets I’ve met had “resume inflation” to one degree or another. The funny thing is, I respected them without any embellishment, for what they actually knew, not for what tab or badge or doo-dad they may have had on their uniform.

                                                                          In this particular guy’s case, I think he’s legit. Bad case of running off at the mouth, but then again, he owned up to it.

                                                                          Randy also brings up a good point. I gained much valuable experience OJT in the reserves and ArNG which isn’t from any formal school noted in my active duty DD214. So it’s not a question of my pedigree, ie. being school-trained, as much as it is, what do I actually bring to the table. I imagine there’s lots of guys in my shoes.

                                                                          My DD214 is incredibly boring. In fact, when I ETS’d, I didn’t care what it said, as long as it had those weasel-words that pretty much said, “Honorable Discharge”.

                                                                          I know for a fact there were operations in places straight-leg 11B’s went on which were never recorded anywhere. If someone was killed, then members of that unit were basically ordered to perjur themselves in sworn statements as to the “training accident”. If they performed heroically, they got an Army Achievement or an Army Commendation medal. Papers were also signed agreeing to never talk about where you had been, and what you had done for the rest of your natural life, or until the mission became unclassified.

                                                                          Not trying to stir the pot, but high-speed/low-drag stuff isn’t always the sole playground of those with special tabs on their shoulders. They just get to do it more often, with better toys.

                                                                        • #72632
                                                                          Corvette
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            t.

                                                                            Randy also brings up a good point. I gained much valuable experience OJT in the reserves and ArNG which isn’t from any formal school noted in my active duty DD214. So it’s not a question of my pedigree, ie. being school-trained, as much as it is, what do I actually bring to the table. I imagine there’s lots of guys in my shoes.

                                                                            Quoted for truth!
                                                                            We are more than the sum of our DD214

                                                                          • #72633
                                                                            Max
                                                                            Keymaster
                                                                            • #72634
                                                                              Skittles
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Diz you are right. I didnt even look at my DD214. I grabbed it and ran. When i did look at it a lot of stuff wasnt officially trained so it wasnt on there. Some stuff that was official wasnt on there. And some things i never did were on there. We are definitely more than whats written on there. Besides its that govt that tracks those records and puts them in there and we all know how well they do things.

                                                                              • #72635
                                                                                DiznNC
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Yeah no shit, that little part on the bottom that says honorable discharge is all that matters.

                                                                                  Don’t get me wrong, I respect the effort that went into winning all those wings n things, but at some point they become a status symbol for image, rather than a true measure of competency. I have known complete douchebags that were jump/scuba/ranger qual’d, and I have known stellar folks that didn’t have any of that shit. So the character of the man comes into play here.

                                                                                  Also, there’s the fact that not everyone can actually teach others well, regardless of qualifications. You are lucky if you find someone who is both.

                                                                                  Funny story. We had this guy show up at the drill center one weekend, with every qual you could imagine. All the schools. I mean just about everything, except Royal Marine Commando course. Anyways, this guy gives a big class to the guys about recon patrolling. It was pretty sketchy stuff, nothing major wrong but nothing really right either. It turns out this guy got the forms and faked all these schools on his records. Just goes to show.

                                                                                • #72636
                                                                                  Max
                                                                                  Keymaster

                                                                                    I have known complete douchebags that were jump/scuba/ranger qual’d, and I have known stellar folks that didn’t have any of that shit. So the character of the man comes into play here.

                                                                                    That sums it up perfectly. Or put another way, what have you done for me lately?

                                                                                  • #72637
                                                                                    DiznNC
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Yeah back to point, honestly I view armed citizens who kit up and train hard, no differently than the military vets, who may or may not know their shit. Some assume that vets, especially the ones with wings n things have their shit together and are the ones you want to train with and/or have on your team. I think these guys who are training with Max, especially the ones in this vid, are the kind of guys I want around when the shit hits the fan, not the WRSA types who are better at shooting off their mouths than their rifles.

                                                                                      If a man takes the time, and spends well over a thousand dollars in expenses to learn SUT, that tells me more than all the bullshit posts online put together. Lesser men will always criticize those actually DOING something. Kudos to Max and all alumni. Fuck the noise, continue to march.

                                                                                    • #72638
                                                                                      Former Sapper
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        The way I read claims about what a badass you were years ago is: “I eat a really nice burger a few years ago so now I’m a shit hot fry cook”. Anyway I think we can all draw a line under this and learn lessons from this little shit storm. What it all comes back to also is tribalism and we saw a very good example of it here.

                                                                                      • #72639
                                                                                        Max
                                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                                          Brothers, also remember that team tyranny has folks whose job is to go to various forums and sow discord. I know that this isn’t the case with the current meme, but just to point it out to remind everyone that they are very good at their psyops.

                                                                                        • #72640
                                                                                          Max
                                                                                          Keymaster

                                                                                            Max,

                                                                                            Sorry to hear about the troubles.
                                                                                            I would ask you not to write off all the members of WRSA
                                                                                            because of the comments of a few. There are a lot of good folks who visit that site daily, including alumni. Those in the know respect and admire what you have done for the Survival and Patriot communities. Think of it as a local pub, where some local is always going to come in and run off at the mouth. You can’t kick his ass every time, or you wont get anything else done. Thanks for all you do, and stay safe Brother.

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