Testing the Shot Stop Level III Special Threat Plate with Green Tip / M855

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Home Forums The Armory – Gear and Equipment Body Armor and Protective Equipment Testing the Shot Stop Level III Special Threat Plate with Green Tip / M855

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    • #108161
      Max
      Keymaster

        This is the company I was alluding to before, but didn’t want to say anything until I had seen their product.

      • #108162
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Here is their product comparison chart.

          Duritium III GT – 10″x12″x.55″ – Multi-Curve, SAPI/ESAPI Cut (SE) $420 – 8″x10″x.55″ – $290

          Duritium III GT – 10″x12″x.55″ – Multi-Curve, Shooters Cut (SH) $380 – 8″x10″x.55″ – $290

          Note: Prices from one of several vendors.

        • #108163
          Hessian
          Participant

            Poor Billy.

            Really enjoy the AR 500 armor comment for ‘multi’ hit.. hah.

            It appears that they offer level IV plates that weight 5.5lbs.

            I was going to be pulling the trigger on the DKX plates and now I see these. Any idea of JRH will be supplying these? Max would you recommend these plates over DKX?

          • #108164
            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
            Moderator

              Information on their Level IV

              Duritium IV HS – Body Plates $365.00

              Description

              A special ultra-thin, light weight multi-hit protection option for Armor Piercing protection.

              SAPI CUT 10″ X 12″ X .9″ ONLY

              CUT OPTIONS: SAPI/ESAPI Cut (SE)
              CURVATURE: Single curve
              CONFIGURATION: Stand-Alone, Multi-Hit
              AERIAL DENSITY (WEIGHT): 5.5 lbs.
              THICKNESS: 0.9″ ± 0.125” (22.8 mm ± 3.17 mm)
              TYPE OF MATERIALS: Alloy / Composite
              TYPE OF PROTECTIVE COVER: Polyurea
              SPECIAL THREAT TESTING: 7.62 x 63mm APM2*

              *Special Threat Testing conducted in accordance with an abbreviated and modified NIJ Standard 0101.06 and ShotStop Advanced Armor Testing Protocol.

              5 YEAR WARRANTY

              MADE IN THE USA

            • #108165
              Submariner
              Participant

                Are these marketed as stand alone plates? At what point does back face deformation necessitate kevlar plate backers?

              • #108166
                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                Moderator

                  Are these marketed as stand alone plates?

                  According to their Product Spec Sheets for the III and IV. Haven’t looked at other products.

                  At what point does back face deformation necessitate kevlar plate backers?

                  Try looking at NIJ standards for a recommendation.

                • #108167
                  Submariner
                  Participant
                  • #108168
                    Max
                    Keymaster

                      I was going to be pulling the trigger on the DKX plates and now I see these.

                      I have the DKX plates and I have not had the opportunity to shoot them. I think that the Shot Stop plates will be getting better and coming down in weight. They are thinner than the DKX. They are not a dyneema / ceramic composite. The dyneema cannot be left in vehicles. The ceramic is vulnerable to cracking, although the DKX plates do pass the latest NIJ slam test.

                      The Duritium is interesting. You saw the way it is made in the video. Te dust you saw was apparently alloy that is used instead of the ceramic, and will not crack. So the Duritium construction is really strong and not vulnerable to heat. It is thinner.

                      Ceramic also turns to dust when it gets hit. This is what happens to all ceramic type plates when hit. It is a little disturbing to see a plate shot to destruction – it is always grist to the mill of the foolish steel fans.

                      As to only stopping 5 rounds, those rounds were really close and it only went through on the 6th because the alloy had already been dispersed on previous shots. The plate could have taken multiple more hits if they were not that close, but plates will not take that many hits if they are tightly grouped shots. In fact, it is a technique to basically mag dump with a tight shot group a guy wearing plates, in order to punch through it. In reality, when guys get hit they go down. They will take maybe one or two hits and go down. This armor is more than sufficient for that. The multi-hit steel comments are just fantasy.

                    • #108169
                      Max
                      Keymaster

                        JUst added on YouTUbe:

                        A note on steel, just because I know there will be comments about multiple hits etc. I do not use steel, and never will. I have a sat for working out, that is all. Why do I not use steel:
                        1) Steel is heavy. Some will quote that steel has come down in weight, but a big issue for steel is stopping special threats such as the M855 green tip and even more worryingly for steel, M193. These are the special threats that the plate tested in this video will defeat. In fact, the worst round for steel is M193 because it is so high velocity, and will punch through the cheaper and lighter steel plates.
                        2) Steel suffers from spalling and ricochet.
                        3) Steel is heavy, and in a time when most people suffer form lack of sufficient physical fitness, the last thing they want to do is weight themselves down with heavy steel. They are more likely to either get hit due to moving slow and taking shortcuts, or just not bother wearing the steel and be devoid of protection. The best idea is to invest in the best protection light body armor, which will protect you and not cause an extreme weight penalty, and thus be more comfortable and more likely to be worn.
                        4) This multi-hit thing is a myth. You will not be standing there for multiple hits. Mostly on deployment when guys get hit (in ceramic military plates) they will take one or two hits and go down / to cover. There is still a lot of protective space available on a non-steel plate. And you can have a spare per group in case anyone does take a hit and needs a replacement.
                        5) The duritium Shot Stop plates in the video do not suffer from cracking of dropped or heat if left in a vehicle, like dyneema / ceramic composite or ceramic plates do. They are extremely strong and durable.
                        6) You cannot navigate / use a compass in steel plates!
                        7) In the winter, steel plates will freeze up super cold and could even cause you hypothermia!
                        8) Be sensible, get with the technology, and go for a good non-steel plate such as the Shot Stop plates featured.

                      • #108170
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          NIJ apparently has a 44 mm standard. That would still leave a mark.

                          What’s your point? These are standalone plates and are an insurance policy to NOT DIE. Yep, it’s gonna bring a tear to your eye. If you take more than 2 rounds before going to cover / falling down into cover, let me know.

                          There needs to be more perspective about ballistic plates. Cue the idiots about steel being ‘multi-hit.’

                        • #108171
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            This multi-hit thing is a myth.

                            I thought the multi-hit was more about the prepper teotwawki as a multi-generational event.

                            Where your greatgrandson is going through training bragging about the ding in his plate to the other kids and how ol’grampa Max took a round defending the village back in year one AE(AfterEvent)! ;-)

                            Maybe I am wrong! B-)

                          • #108172
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              Here you go! ;-)

                              YouTube commenter:

                              im after long term integrity over the course of who knows how long.

                              …and…

                              Weight really isnt a concern of mine in a static defense situation. I will never be patrolling long diatances with any armor so yeah… ill take the weight and gain the longevity. You act like its another hundred lbs …. my plate carrier weighs 20lbs slick… its not a big deal…

                              See its “no big deal! ”

                              There are a lot of people that truly believe this! :unsure:

                              What are the odds that they will need that “longevity?”

                            • #108173
                              wheelsee
                              Participant

                                YouTube commenter:

                                Weight really isnt a concern of mine in a static defense situation. I will never be patrolling long diatances with any armor so yeah… ill take the weight and gain the longevity. You act like its another hundred lbs …. my plate carrier weighs 20lbs slick… its not a big deal…

                                What are the odds that they will need that “longevity?”

                                Obviously hasn’t been to a CQB, FonF class. Primary take-away for me was – static=dead……but YMMV B-) B-)

                              • #108174
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  Max in this case didn’t directly challenge AR550 fan, but continued to put out good information.

                                  It didn’t hurt that another armor maker (AR550) also commented professionally, while not disputing Shot Stop. In fact praised it, but also gave a plug for his own, based on there being “better” steel plates.

                                  This works since in reality these are really two different markets with a little overlap.

                                  The one commenter seems to have realized he overstepped emotionally, basically blaming it on a bad day.

                                  The current appearance is one of learning for everyone.

                                  It’s a balancing act, to delete or not in this case.

                                  Doesn’t always work, but it can! B-)

                                • #108175
                                  Keeper
                                  Participant

                                    Great Video.
                                    A real realist test on plates’

                                    very cool !
                                    thanks
                                    Keeper

                                  • #108176
                                    Robert
                                    Participant

                                      Don’t believe the hype about steel being the only thing that takes “multi hits.”

                                      Hell I shot the hell out of a military ESAPI plate at 15 yards with an M1A and AK, six rounds IIRC, not a one went through, but you seriously would have felt that that close.

                                      We’ve been talking with these folks on and off also, and will likely start carrying them also.

                                    • #108177
                                      dave37
                                      Participant

                                        Here is some more testing of the same plate. He hits it withM855A1 and it survives.

                                        Shot Stop plate test

                                        HEAT 1 2017
                                        Intro to CQB 2017
                                        Texas HEAT 2 2018
                                        Operation TeaSinker 2019
                                        Combat Leader Course 2019
                                        Team Coyote
                                        Team Rekkr
                                        Team Cowbell

                                      • #108178
                                        Strider
                                        Participant

                                          Does anyone know how these fare against M193? I see its success against M855 but I’m curious as to whether they’re rated for the zippier rounds – I suspect that the duritium would suffer from the same weakness to velocity that steel does, and I can’t find any info on whether 193 was used in testing.

                                          I also was looking at the DKX M7 plates to compare and I can’t confirm that they are rated to stop m193 either. I looked up the NIJ 0101.06, which both the Duritium and DKX plates used as a standard, and skimmed it (so I might have missed something) but it didn’t look like 193 was on the list. Perhaps someone a little more familiar with NIJ testing can chime in?

                                        • #108179
                                          Max
                                          Keymaster

                                            Holy balls Strider! Yes they do stop M193. I believe the video linked above by Dave37 covers it (and is a better video than the one I did).

                                            Also, M193 is kryptonite against steel. Not your standsrd dyneema (which these are not). It’s a reversed relationship: 193 kills steel, M855 kills non-steel.

                                            So your fears are unfounded.

                                          • #108180
                                            Max
                                            Keymaster

                                              Also, as guy in video above says, NIJ level III is unhelpful, and only rates to stop M80 ball. Hence these plates being designated ‘special threat.’

                                            • #108181
                                              Strider
                                              Participant

                                                No fears Max :) I’ve just learned not to assume. I got off the armor train after I bought ceramics almost a decade ago, and am just getting back up to speed. I’m behind the curve and I know it.

                                                Edit: I also am unable to open the video linked above for some reason – I can watch yours but I can’t follow the link posted a few comments down for some reason.

                                              • #108182
                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                Moderator

                                                  unable to open the video linked

                                                  See if this works.

                                                • #108183
                                                  Strider
                                                  Participant

                                                    Yep, that did it. Thanks!

                                                  • #108184
                                                    Robert
                                                    Participant

                                                      Typically you see the III mentioned as “Level III “special threat tested.” That being M855, 7.62×39 AP, etc. You can look up the NIJ certs on that also.

                                                    • #108185
                                                      Daniel
                                                      Participant

                                                        This has got me to wondering how Green Tip tends to react when hitting a magazine. I realize an empty polymer is different from one with rounds in it, which is different from an empty steel magazine, which is different from a full steel mag. Are there any rules of thumb as to what usually happens when the mags on your chest give the first clue yer under attack?

                                                      • #108186
                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                        Moderator

                                                          Daniel I am not sure what your asking.

                                                          Any bullet will zip right through your magazines.

                                                          Are there any rules of thumb as to what usually happens when the mags on your chest give the first clue yer under attack?

                                                          No, there will be plenty of more pressing sensory input influencing your reactions at that point.

                                                        • #108187
                                                          Daniel
                                                          Participant

                                                            Thanks Joe. So magazines offer no help if hit before the armor.

                                                          • #108188
                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                            Moderator

                                                              …offer no help…

                                                              One in a million maybe, but nothing to count on.

                                                            • #108189
                                                              Robert
                                                              Participant

                                                                …offer no help…

                                                                One in a million maybe, but nothing to count on.

                                                                I want to say I remember hearing some story a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away… that someone shot a VC one time in his chest rig and the two stacked AK mags stopped the bullet. Sounded like BS to me at age 15, still sounds like BS to me. But we did pick up a metal AK mag on the tac ranges a few months ago that had a bullet through it. Cleaned the rust off, painted it and it works great still- for loading rounds not for hillbilly armor.

                                                              • #108190
                                                                Daniel
                                                                Participant

                                                                  “Hillbilly armor” – I love that, Robert.

                                                                • #108191
                                                                  First Sergeant
                                                                  Moderator

                                                                    Of course I can’t find the pictures now.

                                                                    I have seen pictures from Vietnam of Soldiers showing their mags that had stopped AK rounds. It has more to do with angles, distance and pure dumb luck than anything.

                                                                    It is not something that I would depend on at all.

                                                                    FILO
                                                                    Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                                    Je ne regrette rien
                                                                    In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                                                  • #108192
                                                                    A_A_Ron2guns
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      That dude said his plate carrier is 20lbs slick!!! You wouldn’t have to shoot me, I’d shoot myself if I was that dumb.

                                                                    • #108193
                                                                      JohnnyMac
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        I’d shoot myself

                                                                        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                                                                        It reminds me of the (obscure) quote from the 1990’s film The Little Rascals:

                                                                        “If you were my kids, I’d punish you!”
                                                                        “If we were your kids, we’d punish ourselves!”

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