Sleep Sack ..

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    • #104407
      Corvette
      Participant

        I’m about fed up with the Modular sleep sack system. I know I cannot be the only person who hates this thing. I have found no benefits of the Modular System over the old school Intermediate sack for what I’m doing. I’m thinking of going back to the intermediate sleep sack of yesteryear’s, since this is probably going to be the 5th warm winter in a row in South Central Alaska, or to the old school ECW sleep sack from the same era.


        Or maybe even an old WWII goose-down mountain sleep sack. They are over plentiful up here and I know they work till around 35 below 0.

        Old School Intermediate: 7 pounds. Rated for temperatures from 10˚ to 40˚ F.

        Old School ECW: 9 pounds. Its rated down to temperatures of -20 F

        MSS Sleep Sack System is 11 pounds is suppose to be rated to -30 and I can tell you that’s a load of shit.

        The Modular sack almost totally fills my PLCE rucksack. Upgrading to a new ruck is not an option. Its just ridiculous and causes me to rely on Survival Pod supplies too much.

        The Modular sleep system coming in at 11 pounds has proved to have no benefits for me. I thought it was meant to be a lighter warmer system. Nope..The zipper(S) for the modular system are all shit, usually all jamming at the same time. If they are not all closed you lose heat. Getting out in a hurry? Forget about it..

        The whole thing is a orchestra of madness to roll tight, fit in its bag and stow in ruck in a hurry, you pick it up it slides is 15 different direction turning into a soup sandwich. Its dries for shit, soaks up any moisture from anything and rips pretty easy with tears getting quite out of control fast because of the smooth nylon. It melts very easy with the slightest amber landing on it causing uncontrolled holes that need immediate tending. No so much with the old school canvas shells. Ive never had condensations issues in the old school sleep sack like I do in the Modular sack. The only benefit I have noticed is the Goretex shell and I can lay a British Bivvy sack to the shears and sewing machine to make one work on it w/o the shitty zippers. Ive never seen the need for a “Patrol Sack”. You’re either in a sack or you’re not. I see a Poncho liner and other warming kit for that purpose.

        This past weekend was the final draw with the shitty weather and this sack (none of these pics are from the weekend.) . IMO who ever pushed these on the Gov is a demented mother fuker. With all that being put out- I suspect others who are as old as I am young- and that are spread through the generation like me- have had the same experiences too?

        Bergmann

      • #104408
        Robert
        Participant

          Much warmer climate down here, but we’ve been out in the 10-19 degrees range before and that system worked great.

          I run Snugpak bags in our rucks, but the military sleep system is a go to for car camping in cold weather.

        • #104409
          Jamison
          Participant

            I’d say keep the gortex bivy, probably the best part and most useful out of the whole MSS. Replace the rest of the components with an aftermarket 20 deg bag and a stuff sack that fit’s around those two. You’ll be warmer and a lot lighter, probably 4-5 lbs for the whole system as well as a good pad with a high R value. Maybe add in a woobie for colder nights…

            You’ll use less space and be able to use it in lower temps. I have used this setup for a long time and it works well. Never too cold, almost always dry. Slept in a puddle once and didn’t get soaked too bad because of the gortex.

          • #104410
            Corvette
            Participant

              I’d say keep the gortex bivy, probably the best part and most useful out of the whole MSS. Replace the rest of the components with an aftermarket 20 deg bag and a stuff sack that fit’s around those two. You’ll be warmer and a lot lighter, probably 4-5 lbs for the whole system as well as a good pad with a high R value. Maybe add in a woobie for colder nights…

              You’ll use less space and be able to use it in lower temps. I have used this setup for a long time and it works well. Never too cold, almost always dry. Slept in a puddle once and didn’t get soaked too bad because of the gortex.

              The aftermarket quagmire.. What after market components do you employ?

              Bergmann

            • #104411
              Jamison
              Participant

                I’d say keep the gortex bivy, probably the best part and most useful out of the whole MSS. Replace the rest of the components with an aftermarket 20 deg bag and a stuff sack that fit’s around those two. You’ll be warmer and a lot lighter, probably 4-5 lbs for the whole system as well as a good pad with a high R value. Maybe add in a woobie for colder nights…

                You’ll use less space and be able to use it in lower temps. I have used this setup for a long time and it works well. Never too cold, almost always dry. Slept in a puddle once and didn’t get soaked too bad because of the gortex.

                The aftermarket quagmire.. What after market components do you employ?

                Bergmann

                I have used a North Face Cat’s Meow 20deg bag for the last 10 years or so… (Man I’ve used the same bag for a long time…)

                Cat’s Meow

                It’s about 3 lbs, depending on weather, I’ll add a woobie or if I know it’s going to get really cold I’ll add a sleeping bag liner, I’m actually thinking of getting one that doesn’t add much warmth for long outings so I can just wash that, keep the bag a little cleaner.

                Thermolite Reactor Liner

                Then I’ve stuck it all in an individual waterproof compression sack:
                Stuff Sack

                This setup is a whole lot more versatile than the MSS, it cost’s a good deal more than the military setup, but it’s a lot warmer, you could probably get down into 10deg F with the bag, woobie and bivy sack with that 20deg bag and sleep comfortably.

                Thermarest

                So, thinking back, I didn’t include pad in the whole weight for sleep system, but still, with the aftermarket stuff that I have, 5lbs is pretty easy to hit on a non extreme cold weather camp.

              • #104412
                Corvette
                Participant

                  Jamison.. great reply and thank you for taking the time to type it up..

                  Ivarr

                • #104413
                  wildbill
                  Participant

                    Not a fan of the color of the stuff sack but I like the idea of a water proof stuff sack. What size did you find works best with your sleep system setup?

                  • #104414
                    Mike Q
                    Participant

                      I run a stuff sack the size of the entire interior of my pack. That way I’m not messing with multiple sacks at night, in a hurry. When just hiking the separate sacks work fine but when time is of the essence. I think one sack is best.

                    • #104415
                      Corvette
                      Participant

                        I run a stuff sack the size of the entire interior of my pack. That way I’m not messing with multiple sacks at night, in a hurry. When just hiking the separate sacks work fine but when time is of the essence. I think one sack is best.

                        Problem with that is one leak will soak out everything..You can compartmentalize them neatly for orderly retrieval and return in tactical scenarios…I cannot see it being easier to handle the entire contents as one group digging for one item as opposed to having them grouped in separate bags for easy in and out. I cannot see getting that convenience in one large bag. But if its works for you it works for you..

                        Bergmann

                      • #104416
                        wheelsee
                        Participant

                          Another advantage to having multiple smaller bags is it keeps everything “clean” while pulling something else out, i.e. I can set the bag with my clothes on the ground while I pull another bag out to get something. Once I’ve retrieved my item, easily I might add, I replace the clothes bag which is still dry. Think I may have confused myself on that one…… :wacko:

                        • #104417
                          Max
                          Keymaster

                            Wow, reading this it seems like a Combat Patrol class is needed. Funny, there is one coming up in october. Be on it. The talk from the patrol class is also here in the CP section.

                            It is best to stuff the sleeping bag into the ruck in its own bivvy bag. I run snugpak. It is best to have the other gear in your main compartment in another waterproof bag. Thus you can just lift one out put the other back in to the ruck in the dark. Like going on sentry duty, all gear packed away. It needs to be a simple low light system for the main compartment.

                          • #104418
                            Corvette
                            Participant

                              I use the “Elephants Foot” system most of the year.
                              I use a NORTH FACE “RAGING INFERNO” if it gets nippy.
                              Down Booties if necessary.

                              You can make Elephants Foot bags from old sleeping bags, Sometimes I just cut the top off and use duck’tape to hem, for cheap disposable (Cache) Elephants Foot bags.

                            • #104419
                              Jamison
                              Participant

                                Not a fan of the color of the stuff sack but I like the idea of a water proof stuff sack. What size did you find works best with your sleep system setup?

                                I can’t really remember if I had the 15 or 20 liter pack, i want to say that I bought a 20 because I could put more sniffle gear if I needed.

                              • #104420
                                Jamison
                                Participant

                                  So some more thoughts on packing the pack. I normally run my bag in a separate stuff sack than I like to run all of my gear in individual waterproo/stuff sacks. I like this because there are a lot of different colors out there. So I’ll do warm weather clothes in a red bag, cold in a blue. Food in green, water purification in a blue non water proof, cooking in red non water proof, etc., it makes it easier to find in the dark, makes things easy to switch out for weather, or change out seasons. I have been experimenting with a big waterproof liner as kind of a double protection, but still I run the sleeping bag separately, some of my big rucks have a separate compartment for the sleeping bag anyways.

                                  Oh and shelter supplies go on an outside pocket or on top of everything, because that’s normally the first thing that gets setup.

                                • #104421
                                  zeerf
                                  Participant

                                    Hey guys,

                                    I am looking for a bivy cover and at first was just going to pick up the gortex one at a local military surplus store but started looking into this “lightening the load stuff”. Has anyone had any experience with the
                                    SnugPak Mummy Special Forces Bivy Waterproof Sleeping Bag Cover Bivy (thinking black or green). It seems like it will be much more compact and lighter. Some concerns I have will be durability (I assume the gortex would be stronger and warmer) To be honest don’t plan on camping in the snow and ideally I will have several options (both or other like products to use as needed) depending on weather and load. Basically wondering if the space/weight is worth the near double coast and only getting one of the options for now. I am open to check into other options these are the two I have come down to so far.

                                  • #104422
                                    Corvette
                                    Participant

                                      Hey guys,

                                      I am looking for a bivy cover and at first was just going to pick up the gortex one at a local military surplus store but started looking into this “lightening the load stuff”. Has anyone had any experience with the
                                      SnugPak Mummy Special Forces Bivy Waterproof Sleeping Bag Cover Bivy (thinking black or green). It seems like it will be much more compact and lighter. Some concerns I have will be durability (I assume the gortex would be stronger and warmer) To be honest don’t plan on camping in the snow and ideally I will have several options (both or other like products to use as needed) depending on weather and load. Basically wondering if the space/weight is worth the near double coast and only getting one of the options for now. I am open to check into other options these are the two I have come down to so far.

                                      Keepshooting dot com has/had dutch goretex bivvy bags that are top zipper-ed like most normal sleep sacks. They also had the British OD version w/ no zipper if your handy with sewing you can install your own..

                                      Bergmann

                                    • #104423
                                      zeerf
                                      Participant

                                        Bergmann, good deal and thank you, I will check them out.

                                      • #104424
                                        Corvette
                                        Participant

                                          Ive located a ECW sleep sack. 80$ at the surplus store but I found this one at a gun store on the back shelf for 25$. Appears new or very lightly used. Its larger then the 3 season sleep sack when rolled up but its still lighter. It takes up much more room then the 3 season sack, enveloping 3/4 of the main compartment even with me sitting on it to roll it as tight as humanly possible. Sadly a small main compartment is the curse of the Short-Back British rucksack…. Regardless I’m excited about it. Its down and poly-filled.. It appears to be made in 1983! Its as old as Mrs Bergmann..

                                          M4 is for scale… this sack is shorter and narrower then the 3 season sleep sack… I’m small so its ok..

                                          Ive already put in quite a few miles with this in my ruck and its a noticeable difference in weight. Its fills the ruck well with no dead space round the sides, this is a good thing. Wasted room is wasted energy. . Its now cold here with 4 inches on snow on the ground so Ill be sleeping out in this soon to gift it a proper ‘have at it’..

                                          Bergmann

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