Should sexes be restricted in voting rights??

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    • #128773
      wheelsee
      Participant

        Men are from Mars, women are from Venus – a popular book written in 1992 by John Gray attempted to explain the psychological differences between the sexes.

        In today’s world where cats are sleeping with dogs (for those unfamiliar with this quote, check your movie references), where males think they are females (or horses or dogs), where the “traditional American culture” has been torn apart, one could argue that part of this was due to women voting in and on national issues.

        Listen to how men and women ask questions – men usually ask “what do you think about XX?”; whereas women usually ask “how do you feel about XX?”. My wife asks me her usual, and I give my thoughts, NOT feelings; therefore I come across as a cold-hearted SOB. I ask my wife my usual, and she gives me feelings, NOT thoughts; therefore she comes across as a moody B.

        Traditionally, men have been tasked with the external (outside the home, the protection of the nation, etc) and women have been tasked with the internal (inside the home, how the community interacts daily, etc).

        This is more than just a Western process. In the Six Nations (think Iroquois, Mohawk, etc), women ran the day-to-day dealings of the tribe. When war broke out, men took over until victory or treaty was achieved. How would that impact today? Keep in mind I’m making generalizations.

        Men would vote for/in national and international issues while women would vote for/in community issues. For example – A foreign country/group attacks your state/nation; men then vote and carry out the resulting decision. A local need is identified, women vote on and carry out the resulting decision.

        When it comes to my community, the internal dealings are best left with the women (ask my wife) as I really don’t have too much concern of how things work. However, the protection of my community should be left to men. Outsiders coming in?? Women will feel first and not think HOW they could impact the community.

        Again, I am making generalizations. Margaret Thatcher could be considered an anomaly though the more I learn of Rhodesia, the more I question.

        Let the flaming begin…….

      • #128808
        Lloyd
        Participant

          You are absolutely right that in GENERAL, women make decisions based on feelings and men on logic… usually.

          Since “leftism” etc is almost entirely based on feelings, I THINK we would be much better off if women had never been allowed to vote in this country. I’d like to take it a step further and allow only those who own property to vote. Socialism and the welfare state would die out pretty fast if we could pull that off.

          Too late, though. Doubtful, but maybe after the collapse?

          MVT Texas 2015-2020
          Team Coyote / Team Rekkr / Team Cowbell

        • #128810
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            The general differences you mention show how the combination of a man and woman can make for a balanced outlook on problems faced. The combination helps to eliminate blind spots that an individual may have.

            Similar to our discussed idea of choosing the best person for a particular job/assignment within the group/tribe/whatever term you prefer.

            That said overall I think rather than restrict voting based on sex of individual, proactive/corrective education in individual differences to avoid long term mistakes.

            For example choosing a feel good response to a particular problem may have short term benefits, however what will the feelings of that individual if the long term result is living in a Socialist/Communist/whatever dictatorship?

            To put a popular culture example in the mix; while I’ve only seen a few episodes, the TV series “The Handmaid’s Tale” while a extreme possible example of the result of such restrictions it can’t be ignored.

            I have no wish to live in such a society as depicted in that fiction.

            So I can’t suggest a complete plan, there are many problems eliminating individuals from voting based on sex, race, political beliefs.

            Restrictions based on property ownership etc…May have more merit within a new reset of society. As discussed you will not achieve such drastic restructuring without a major painful reset, only then rebuilding out of the ashes will such change be possible IMHO.

          • #128821
            Anonymous
            Inactive

              I’ve had enough back and forth with Wheelsee I won’t flame him. That being said I can’t support a policy that would disenfranchise half the population. The tag under my posts is a Kurdish phrase that literally translates into “Woman, life, freedom”.

              I’m on the autism spectrum so having a hypermasculine brain I should have naturally embraced gun rights and individualism, right?. No, not really, I was a progressive pretty much until my early twenties, even now my idiosyncratic tastes in libertarianism is a bit much for a number of folks here. ;-)

              This would unnecessarily prevent men and women who don’t fall into these categories from participating in decisionmaking, there are women who are good at war and men who are good at civil organizing. One of the scariest commanders I met was a woman, her unit had been responsible for wiping out entire enemy platoons during Kurdish infighting in the 1990s. If women were to naturally gravitate towards internal affairs and men towards external affairs then whatever, but setting up such artificial barriers is unnecessary and would still likely result in women pursuing uncomfortably socialist domestic policies if what you suggest about female decisionmaking is true.

              Beyond this, if we rely on these kinds of generalizations it’s only a matter of time before someone starts posting VDARE shit and claims racial genetic differences mean we can’t trust nonwhites with voting rights, etc. Not that I’m going to assume anyone here would do that but that’s the rabbit hole you’re looking at. Then it’s much easier to claim your side is really promoting a restoration of some romanticized image of the Antebellum South more than individual liberty.

              Many native tribes were much more matriarchal than some folks here might be comfortable with, matrilineality was pretty frequent. Remember that pre-contact North America was as culturally diverse as Europe, if not more so since it didnt have the homogenizing influence of the church. In general tribal societies tend to be more egalitarian on gender issues than agricultural or industrial societies. There’s a general pattern on how hierarchies develop but I’m guessing nobody here is that interested in anarchist theory.

              How people feel rather than just assume everyone works off of hard logic is something that’s worth taking into consideration. Blaming women because conservatives are unable or unwilling to think in someone else’s shoes is surrendering half the population to those who wouldn’t seek to quiet their voices. That’s a lot of potential informants, just saying.

              Remember things were pretty shitty before women started voting too – slavery, a civil war, nativist gangs, radical labor unrest, Jim Crow and black codes, the worst recessions until the Great Depression, etc. Us dudes don’t get a pass.

              It would be wrong of me to give criticism without an alternative, so how we’d handle this in Rojava might interest some of you – each public office has a male and female representative, so both the men and the women are heard on each issue. Women’s councils have veto power over any issues that are exclusive to women.

            • #128828
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                Blaming women because conservatives are unable or unwilling to think in someone else’s shoes…

                …and you were doing so well until this! :wacko:

                I am certainly conservative leaning in my unique political views. :yes:

                Your “unable or unwilling to think in someone else’s shoes” may apply to yourself in this instance! ;-)

                Somehow I’ll recover from this slight! :cry: (sarcasm)

                :good:

              • #128845
                Anonymous
                Inactive

                  Technical note, I can’t polish my posts that often lately because the edit button seems to disappear shortly after I post, that was probably a bit harsher than I could have worded it. That being said I can pretty much agree with Joe’s post as well, which says a lot considering our frequent (friendly) sparring. :good:

                  In short we should operate from a principle of merit over physical or genetic determinism, the latter is a distraction from what I believe we are all here for – the pursuit of greater liberty.

                  The general differences you mention show how the combination of a man and woman can make for a balanced outlook on problems faced. The combination helps to eliminate blind spots that an individual may have.

                  Similar to our discussed idea of choosing the best person for a particular job/assignment within the group/tribe/whatever term you prefer.

                  That said overall I think rather than restrict voting based on sex of individual, proactive/corrective education in individual differences to avoid long term mistakes.

                  Curious if you guys find merit on the Rojava solution, seems in sync with what Joe was saying. (I didn’t see his first post until I wrote mine.) I really do enjoy the Kurdish take on feminism a bit more over the Western one, seems a bit more rational when dealing with a more conservative society versus the extreme takes of some Western leftists.

                • #128871
                  Max
                  Keymaster

                    I’m in favor or restricting voting on a massive scale. In fact, I would restrict it so the only vote is me, when I am king, and then we could fix clown world! :yahoo:

                    I think wheelsee has a point over the voting proclivities of the sexes. However, like all these things its always a problem when we stereotype. Individual liberty is the thing, right? Thus based on equality of opportunity but not of outcome. I have no problem restricting voting as I suggested in my other post. Something along the lines of people paying taxes / owning property / not receiving entitlements.

                    Although for the 100th time this is not Rojava, and I am not a Kurd, there is a point with the male / female lead. The partnership or male and female in marriage, as Joe points out, is what makes marriage strong and the sexes complement each other. We take on different roles while supporting each other. It would be interesting to see that transported to government, where rather than one individual being chief executive, we have a male / female partnership. I don’t mean an actual married couple running, but that may happen, but simply a male and female slot.

                  • #128873
                    Robert Henry
                    Participant

                      Well Raptor’s contradictions between his liberal Amerikan thinking patterns and muslim tendencies are probably hard for him to reconcile. Islam being one of the worst cults in the world on women’s rights.

                      All the non sense aside and back to the issue.

                      I think like everything else this is different from one person to another. My wife is a hard core conservative and votes on issues. Not a conspiracy nut but keeps up with things and regularly I’m getting emails from her “you need to email our rep about..” and I’m thinking “wait, what the hell are you talking about?” She could have taken a job, keep money for herself and had all the “clout” of being a bread winner for the family as a lot of women SEEK now a days, she didn’t. Instead she gave 14 years of her life to making sure our son had a good education.

                      Yes there are a lot of seemly dunskie chicks out there- and just as many guys of the same retard stock. But there are also some smart ones too. You either have to find one already smart or get her young and educate/train them. No different than any guy you would have on your team, only more important cause your family really IS your team. And when SHTF, your family is either going to be your biggest asset or your biggest liability, the choice is YOURS what YOU make of it.

                      www.jrhenterprises.com

                      Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                      Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                    • #128895
                      JohnnyMac
                      Participant

                        While I’m not opposed to changes to voting rights, for example based on civic virtue (which could mean many things), I AM opposed to restricting voting rights based on innate characteristics: race, skin color, national origin, gender, age (other than a minimum age requirement, probably lower than 18 in my opinion), religion, sexual orientation, disability (except severe intellectual disability, as sufficient decision making for voting would be tough).

                        America’s diversity can be a strength, if we don’t use it to divide.

                        • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by JohnnyMac.
                        • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by JohnnyMac.
                        • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by JohnnyMac.
                      • #128938
                        Anonymous
                        Inactive

                          Of course we’re not Kurds and this isn’t Rojava, it is worth taking notes what does and doesn’t work overseas and see how it could apply to our needs, it’s also worth noting much of Rojava’s political structure is heavily based on New England’s town hall system so it’s not completely foreign. (Quick summary: New England > Murray Bookchin > Abdullah Ocalan > Rojava.)

                          You teach British fighting techniques and even recently wrote about some revolving door technique from one of the Scandinavian countries. Into the same vein, no need to reinvent proven governing tactics same as no need to reinvent proven fighting tactics, obviously adapted to local needs. Not to argue with you, just stating why I frequently mention concepts that have been applied elsewhere in overseas boogaloos.

                          Also worth noting that the system is multiethnic and not just Kurdish, govervorships and mayorships have three seats, one must be a woman, one an ethnic or religious minority iirc, to ensure the Arabs, Armenians, Assyrians, etc. don’t feel locked out by the Kurds. I wouldn’t advocate such a denominational system here, just noting it’s not an ethnonationalist system like the KRG in Iraq, the same reason they don’t fly the Ala Rengîn like in Başur. I’ve got a number of friends currently defending Tel Tamer, which is heavily Assyrian. You and others here who have been to Kurdistan are only familiar with the KRG afaik and not Rojava so just to clarify the distinction.

                          …As far as my opinions on Islam I’m probably one of the few guys here to have actually encountered hardened ISIS fighters in person and I carried an extra bullet because we all knew what capture meant but please lecture me on how terrible radical Islam is. :whistle:

                        • #128959
                          jriggs
                          Participant

                            I think this is a post collapse rebuild issue. How about during a collapse who gets a vote. I know this is chasing a rabbit but this is something you can effect. My idea is that the people in your tribe who do more get more of a vote. I don’t just mean more work or bring more stuff. That is part of it but also the people who hold the tribe together, are willing to make tough decisions and accept responsibility for those decisions, the ones who embodie the core values of the tribe. The ideas of sevant leadership should apply to any tribal leadership position. If you make it about you and not your people head bashing should and probably will follow.
                            In relation to women I know some who do more weekly pt and training than dudes I know who are either lazy or unleadable.
                            I have a tendency to agree with Max you need both perspectives especially in a tribe.

                            Team Rekkr

                          • #129012
                            DiznNC
                            Participant

                              These days I don’t know how you could divide it into just two genders, N’est-ce Pas ? But seriously, it’s more complex than what is dangling between yer legs (or not). There are men who are essentially overgrown boys. There are women with more conjones than most men. It has to be more merit-based, in consideration of your position and worth within the community. For example, I don’t care what gender you are , if you are a worthless fuck and of no use to the community. Or if you are a leader and/or contributing member within the group. Those that do more useful things should have more say in things; conversely those that contribute less, or are a negative drag, should be ignored. At a local level, this is pretty easy to establish; once you go further up the chain/centralize these decisions, the farther you are from the truth. So again I say these things need to be pushed down to the lowest possible level. Let the people within their own community groups decide who merits a say, and who doesn’t. Not some arbitrary edict from on high.

                            • #129071
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                Blaming women because conservatives are unable or unwilling to think in someone else’s shoes…

                                …and you were doing so well until this! :wacko:

                                I am certainly conservative leaning in my unique political views. :yes:

                                Your “unable or unwilling to think in someone else’s shoes” may apply to yourself in this instance! ;-)

                                Somehow I’ll recover from this slight! :cry: (sarcasm)

                                :good:

                                Well said Joe!

                                I’m waiting for the time Raptor has to reconcile gay/LGBPTQXMLOP rights with his muslim leanings when muzzies are tossing gays off the tops of buildings. I have a feeling it will look at lot like that Dave Chapelle show skit with Clayton Bigsby “black white supremacist” when Clayton pulls his hood off (revealing he’s actually black) at a klan rally and one of the young guys in the audience head literally explodes. :good:

                                I’m waiting for the time Raptor has to reconcile gay/LGBPTQXMLOP rights with his muslim leanings when muzzies are tossing gays off the tops of buildings. I have a feeling it will look at lot like that Dave Chapelle show skit with Clayton Bigsby “black white supremacist” when Clayton pulls his hood off (revealing he’s actually black) at a klan rally and one of the young guys in the audience head literally explodes.

                                I’m really wondering what credentials you have that you feel qualified to lecture me about Islam beside having a deeply ingrained fear of Muslims.

                                My biggest defense of Muslims was when folks here were suggesting Muslim civilians had it coming when a legit fascist gunned them down in Christchurch. If I thought Islam was the right religion I’d be a Muslim, I’m not religious at all. If you condone gunning down unarmed civvies then I don’t think we’re on the same side.

                                I don’t know you outside of your snide remarks, you can cite ISIS videos all you like (I’m sure I watched them much more than you did) but I didn’t see your ass in Syria to see it first-hand with the rest of us so piss off.

                                Note: I put these posts in order to reestablish the timeline due to some side effects of IT work.

                              • #129119
                                Anonymous
                                Inactive

                                  Diz:
                                  I mentioned the concept of male and female co-chairs as an alternative to gender segregation in voting. With some Americans still not sure how many genders there are or if gender exists at all obviously this is a solution that probably wouldn’t work in Berkeley.

                                  There is no catch-all solution, and those communities that establish local governance and avoid capture by local despots or ouside powers could become laboratories of democracy, exchanging ideas and best practices and forming strategic and political partnerships based on shared needs and principles. You could very easily have a confederation of free communities emerge that preserves their own internal systems. Even here in the US there’s noting barring a state from adopting a parliamentary system as long as it remains a republic.

                                  The Swiss Confederation was originally just a collective of small mountain territories cooperating on security and trade, go figure it’s still one of the most free parts of Europe.

                                • #129172
                                  Robert Henry
                                  Participant

                                    I’m really wondering what credentials you have that you feel qualified to lecture me about Islam beside having a deeply ingrained fear of Muslims.

                                    My biggest defense of Muslims was when folks here were suggesting Muslim civilians had it coming when a legit fascist gunned them down in Christchurch. If I thought Islam was the right religion I’d be a Muslim, I’m not religious at all. If you condone gunning down unarmed civvies then I don’t think we’re on the same side.

                                    I don’t know you outside of your snide remarks, you can cite ISIS videos all you like (I’m sure I watched them much more than you did) but I didn’t see your ass in Syria to see it first-hand with the rest of us so piss off.

                                    I don’t “fear” Mooslims. I do feel pity for them, as one would for anyone that has fallen into such a clear cult. I do feel sorry for the women born/beat/wed into the horrible institution of the false moon god. And I do hope one day we see the “suicide vest” jihadi jane types pulling the pin in large groups of the males that beat them, mutilate their genitals, etc. And yes the other end of the spectrum is some of the crazy femi-nazi types we have in the US most of whom are also part of your SJW movement. That thought was what made me wonder how you reconciled that.

                                    You insinuate that I or others here were cheering for mooslim civies to be killed in NZ just as you insinuate and clearly have stated that nearly all gun crime in Amerika happens at the hand of the SJWs current and future evil doer- the dreaded white male. This is all BS however and everyone sees it for that.

                                    Rojava Rojava…

                                    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Robert Henry. Reason: spelling, etc

                                    www.jrhenterprises.com

                                    Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                                    Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                                  • #129194
                                    DiznNC
                                    Participant

                                      Hey man you kids play nice; this isn’t WRSA! Seriously we can agree or disagree without getting personal about it. That’s a liberal play.

                                      I think it’s fair to say that mooslims are pretty fucked up as a society; no need for hatin’ on them, or defending them either. They are what they are.

                                      I don’t think anyone here would argue that folks getting murdered “deserved it”, regardless of what persuasion you/they are. Murder is murder across the board.

                                      I really don’t care what you and your group are doing, as long as it doesn’t impact on me. The problem I have is this mass illegal migration to western countries, where our culture comes under attack. Instead of assimilating, they want accommodation. Which leads to our present sit.

                                      The Swiss example is interesting, although note they have a homogeneous society, which is sorta what I’m saying. Diversity is bullshit. You need a common core of beliefs to function as a society.

                                    • #129204
                                      Anonymous
                                      Inactive

                                        The Swiss example is interesting, although note they have a homogeneous society, which is sorta what I’m saying. Diversity is bullshit. You need a common core of beliefs to function as a society.

                                        If we’re talking strictly politics, there needs to be shared principles but there has to be give for cultural differences. Switzerland itself is split between ethnic German, Italian, French, and Romansch populations. Meanwhile the rest of Europe still has issues with ethnonationalism. Stateside demanding too much uniformity would also lead to division, what makes a “conservative” even can be very different between, say, West Virginia and Alabama. Diversity itself, whether by region, language, ethnicity, religion, whatever, is neither good nor bad, it’s just a reality. Differing cultures can coexist *if* they agree to respect differences and play by the same rules, our current crisis is that everybody has abandoned that principle.

                                      • #129228
                                        DiznNC
                                        Participant

                                          Well yeah that’s fucking problem. If you are some ethnic group and you talk conservatively (not mother-fucking the white devil) you are said to not be “authentic” fill in the blank. So it’s not so much that different folks can’t agree on things, it’s that the liberal agenda will not allow them to. You are not really black/brown/gay/female/ whatever unless you toe the party line. Within this toxic atmosphere, there is no consensus allowed. If it’s white, it ain’t right.

                                          IF we can leave this bullshit behind, and come together as neighbors with a common cause, then MAYBE we can move past all this and find consensus, regardless of color, religion, politics, etc. With all the agitators working to keep us fighting amongst ourselves, central gov is touted as the only solution to our problems. Which is the end goal for these motherfuckers.

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