SB64 in Virginia, “paramilitary training” will be a Class 5 felony

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    • #129713
      Pinky
      Participant

        Welcome to East California! Intentionally written in a vague manner so as to be used as needed. I guess you just need a civil disorder waiver.

        http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+ful+SB64&fbclid=IwAR2LZ8qWZ8VJq93plQdjlqqi9zI2xPPla-tdmJBlxJ_UddpCLZbmQjEGcVM

        SENATE BILL NO. 64
        Offered January 8, 2020
        Prefiled November 21, 2019
        A BILL to amend and reenact § 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia, relating to paramilitary activities; penalty.
        ———-
        Patron– Lucas
        ———-
        Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
        ———-
        Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

        1. That § 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:

        § 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited; penalty.

        A person shall be, amended to is guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

        1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

        2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

        3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.

        2. That the provisions of this act may result in a net increase in periods of imprisonment or commitment. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of imprisonment in state adult correctional facilities; therefore, Chapter 854 of the Acts of Assembly of 2019 requires the Virginia Criminal Sentencing Commission to assign a minimum fiscal impact of $50,000. Pursuant to § 30-19.1:4 of the Code of Virginia, the estimated amount of the necessary appropriation cannot be determined for periods of commitment to the custody of the Department of Juvenile Justice.

      • #129715
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          A great example of what awaits the fall of any State or Nation to the Socialists.

          They certainly are feeling bold.

          Calm thought and preparation is needed regardless of what actually happens.

        • #129719
          SeanT
          Keymaster

            Quite Sexist…
            prohibited; penalty.

            A person shall be is guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

          • #129720
            Hessian
            Participant

              Wow, the heat keeps on getting turned up. From how I read the law, this means they could get you for being at a shooting range by yourself and nail you with a class 5 felony. :wacko:

            • #129721
              SeanT
              Keymaster

                It is subsection 3
                Targeting the VCDL ( my opinion) an assembling while being armed for Lobby Day

              • #129722
                Thomas
                Participant

                  Terry McAuliff is not planning another run for governor because he wants to temper this insanity.

                  They won and they are coming hard to the basket. The laws that will result from these bills are Stalinist. The little lefties that think they want to crush the right will learn quickly that they are not immune from their masters’ wrath.

                  “Show me the man. I will show you the crime,” comes to mind.

                • #129729
                  Robert Henry
                  Participant

                    Florida had (or has) a paramilitary act. Some of the slackers back in the day used it as an excuse not to train. I can’t remember hearing about one party being brought up on it- but that was late 80’s, early 90’s. Practically 100 years ago as fast as the demtards are moving.

                    I feel for you VA boys! We got nervous last year with buffet killer gap “toof” Stacey Abrams but thankfully their was enough right thinking folks in GA. Hopefully the tide will turn up your way. Stay strong.

                    www.jrhenterprises.com

                    Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                    Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                  • #129730
                    First Sergeant
                    Moderator

                      You beat me to this Pinky.

                      FILO
                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                      Je ne regrette rien
                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                    • #129739
                      GreenTip
                      Participant

                        That’s is total BS. Wonder what states currently have this law? Wonder if it is California based? But I know trainers have stuff that can be construed to fit this language in every state.

                      • #129740
                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                        Moderator

                          Florida had (or has) a paramilitary act.

                          Wonder what states currently have this law?

                          I don’t know it’s origin or what other States have them.

                          I know of no instances of it ever being used!

                          Title XLVI CRIMES
                          Chapter 790 WEAPONS AND FIREARMS
                          SECTION 29 Paramilitary training; teaching or participation prohibited.

                          790.29 Paramilitary training; teaching or participation prohibited.—

                          (1) This act shall be known and may be cited as the “State Antiparamilitary Training Act.”

                          (2) As used in this section, the term “civil disorder” means a public disturbance involving acts of violence by an assemblage of three or more persons, which disturbance causes an immediate danger of, or results in, damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual within the United States.

                          (3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

                          (b) Whoever assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to unlawfully employ the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

                          (4) Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prohibit any act of a law enforcement officer which is performed in connection with the lawful performance of his or her official duties or to prohibit the training or teaching of the use of weapons to be used for hunting, recreation, competition, self-defense or the protection of one’s person or property, or other lawful use.

                          History.—s. 1, ch. 82-5; s. 164, ch. 83-216; s. 1220, ch. 97-102.

                          The following list I haven’t vetted so take it for what it’s worth and verify those that apply.

                          States with Anti-Militia Laws Only (17)

                          Alabama. ALA. CODE s 31-2-125.

                          Arizona. ARIZ. REV. STAT. ANN. s 26-123.

                          Iowa. IOWA CODE s 29A.31.

                          Kansas. KAN. STAT. ANN. s 48-203.

                          Kentucky. KY. REV. STAT. ANN. s 38.440.

                          Maine. ME. REV. STAT. ANN. tit. 37-B, s 342.2.

                          Maryland. MD. CODE ANN. art. 65, s 35.

                          Massachusetts. MASS. GEN. L. ch. 33, s 129-132.

                          Minnesota. MINN. STAT. s 624.61.

                          Mississippi. MISS. CODE ANN. $ 33-1-31.

                          Nevada. NEV. REV. STAT. s 203-080.

                          New Hampshire. N.H. REV. STAT. ANN. s 111:15.

                          North Dakota. N.D. CENT. CODE s 37-01-21.

                          Texas. TEX. GOV’T CODE ANN. s 431.010.

                          Washington. WASH. REV. CODE s 38.40.120.

                          West Virginia. W. VA. CODE s 15-1F-7.

                          Wyoming. WYO. STAT. s 19-1-106.

                          States with Anti-Paramilitary Training Laws Only (17)

                          Arkansas. ARK. CODE s 5-71-301 to -303.

                          California. CAL. PENAL CODE s 11460.

                          Colorado. COLO. REV. STAT. s 18-9-120.

                          Connecticut. CONN. GEN. STAT. s 53-206b.

                          Louisiana. LA. REV. STAT. ANN. s 117.1.

                          Michigan. MICH. COMP. LAWS s 750.528a.

                          Missouri. MO. REV. STAT. s 574.070.

                          Montana. MONT. CODE ANN. s 45-8-109.

                          Nebraska. NEB. REV. STAT. s 28-1480 to -1482.

                          New Jersey. N.J. REV. STAT. s 2C:39-14.

                          New Mexico. N.M. STAT. ANN. s 30-20A-1 to -4.

                          Oklahoma. OKLA. STAT. ANN. tit. 21, s 1321.10.

                          Oregon. OR. REV. STAT. s 166.660.

                          Pennsylvania. 18 PA. CONS. STAT. s 5515.

                          South Carolina. S.C. CODE ANN. s 16-8-10 to -30.

                          Tennessee. TENN. CODE ANN. s 39-17-314.

                          Virginia. VA. CODE ANN. s 18.2-433.1 to -433.3.

                          States with Both Anti-Militia and Anti-Paramilitary Training Laws (7)

                          Florida. FLA. STAT. ANN. ch. 870.06, 790.29.

                          Georgia. GA. CODE ANN. ss 38-2-277, 16-11-150 to -152.

                          Idaho. IDAHO CODE ss 46-802, 18-8101 to -8105.

                          Illinois. ILL. REV. STAT. ch. 1805, para. 94-95.

                          New York. N.Y. MIL. LAW s 240.

                          North Carolina. N.C. GEN. STAT. ss 127A-151, 14-288.20.

                          Rhode Island. R.I. GEN. LAWS ss 30-12-7, 11-55-1 to -3.

                        • #129744
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            § 18.2-433.1. Definitions.
                            As used in this article:

                            “Civil disorder” means any public disturbance within the United States or any territorial possessions thereof involving acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons, which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.

                            “Explosive or incendiary device” means (i) dynamite and all other forms of high explosives, (ii) any explosive bomb, grenade, missile, or similar device, or (iii) any incendiary bomb or grenade, fire bomb, or similar device, including any device which consists of or includes a breakable container including a flammable liquid or compound, and a wick composed of any material which, when ignited, is capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound, and can be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone.

                            “Firearm” means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material; or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

                            “Law-enforcement officer” means any officer as defined in § 9.1-101 or any such officer or member of the armed forces of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state, or the District of Columbia, and such term shall specifically include, but shall not be limited to, members of the National Guard, as defined in § 101(c) of Title 10, United States Code, members of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, not included within the definition of National Guard as defined by such § 101(c), and members of the Armed Forces of the United States.

                            1987, c. 720; 2003, c. 976; 2004, c. 263.

                            § 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.
                            A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

                            1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

                            2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

                            1987, c. 720.

                            § 18.2-433.3. Exceptions.
                            Nothing contained in this article shall be construed to apply to:

                            1. Any act of a law-enforcement officer performed in the otherwise lawful performance of the officer’s official duties;

                            2. Any activity, undertaken without knowledge of or intent to cause or further a civil disorder, which is intended to teach or practice self-defense or self-defense techniques such as karate clubs or self-defense clinics, and similar lawful activity;

                            3. Any facility, program or lawful activity related to firearms instruction and training intended to teach the safe handling and use of firearms; or

                            4. Any other lawful sports or activities related to the individual recreational use or possession of firearms, including but not limited to hunting activities, target shooting, self-defense and firearms collection.

                            Notwithstanding any language contained herein, no activity of any individual, group, organization or other entity engaged in the lawful display or use of firearms or other weapons or facsimiles thereof shall be deemed to be in violation of this statute.

                            1987, c. 720.

                            Compare the differences between “§ 18.2-433.2 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows” to the previous version.

                          • #129745
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              It seems this is what has been added…

                              3. Assembles with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.

                              It is subsection 3
                              Targeting the VCDL ( my opinion) an assembling while being armed for Lobby Day

                              …I suspect SeanT has got it right, though depending on timing may or may not be applicable for “Lobby Day!”

                            • #129747
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                For most States I suspect these are little remembered laws from the past, passed for a variety of reasons.

                                As discussed elsewhere there are sufficient laws in existence; both Federal and State, to put almost everyone away given sufficient motivation after pissing off enough powerful people! :yes:

                              • #129799
                                Max
                                Keymaster

                                  VA already has a paramilitary law. Although this makes it worse. Probably to prevent the sort of armed demo that has already been mentioned on this forum. Anticipating the ability to interrupt training and demos in July 2020 etc.

                                  The paramilitartly law in VA was one factor in siting the VTC in WV. WV has a militia law and not a paramilitary law. This is also another reason why in the disclaimer packet you have to sign that you are not training for purposes of causing civil disorder. That protects MVT, even though MVT is in WV.

                                  However, I do live in VA and run the business out of VA, which is why I am not charmed by statements such as Hunter’s in that other thread talking about training at ‘MVT gun confiscation camps.’ LOL. Not thrilled. Could have been written by an agent provocateur it was that bold!

                                  Planning for civil disorder is not really a topic I would like to see on the forum. Rightful Liberty and our rights is one thing. Unhappiness about the country and the usurpation of our rights is another. If you want to gob off around the raging inferno in meatspace, do it in WV on the 14 December, where we can talk as much politics as you like.

                                • #129819
                                  trailman
                                  Participant

                                    This is also another reason why in the disclaimer packet you have to sign that you are not training for purposes of causing civil disorder. That protects MVT, even though MVT is in WV.

                                    Planning for civil disorder is not really a topic I would like to see on the forum. Rightful Liberty and our rights is one thing.

                                    Right. I’ve always viewed training at MVT as defensive in nature. That’s why I brought the wife there years ago for top notch defensive training for my farm, not to go out and attack the world. Right minded LEOs could use this to do serious damage to the Democratic Parties paramilitary wing ANTIFA though. Either way the new law sucks, Welcome to MD.

                                  • #129822
                                    wheelsee
                                    Participant

                                      Remember who wrote it / passed it. I somehow don’t think it will be used against ANTIFA.

                                    • #129824
                                      DiznNC
                                      Participant

                                        That’s it in a nutshell. It can be used selectively to hammer anyone they choose. Which means us.

                                        So how does “airsim” fit into all of this? Reenactors? Even paint ball, lasers, etc. How do you define sporting use from actual insurrection use.

                                        And indeed who is the militia and who is the SJW? Who is the para-military and who is community organizer?

                                        Two-tiered justice system anyone?

                                      • #129827
                                        SeanT
                                        Keymaster

                                          In the past VCDL encouraged members to dress well, carry legally and participate in the legislative process. The delicate ones were horrified we could carry a firearm into ‘their’ building…forgetting it is the Peoples building. I am extra pissed today because I cross-walked the calendar and found out I have to do work training on Lobby day and it is a Federal holiday too which makes my HR issues a PITA. Being ‘allowed’ to work on a Holiday is harder than it needs to be.

                                        • #129863
                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                          Moderator

                                            Could have been written by an agent provocateur it was that bold!

                                            As a general warning to all…

                                            Remember any gathering in any format can be influenced by agent provocateurs.

                                            This is something to be on guard for!

                                            Don’t allow yourself to be drawn into stupid things!

                                            Don’t be a useful idiot!

                                          • #129871
                                            Robert Henry
                                            Participant

                                              Could have been written by an agent provocateur it was that bold!

                                              As a general warning to all…

                                              Remember any gathering in any format can be influenced by agent provocateurs.

                                              This is something to be on guard for!

                                              Don’t allow yourself to be drawn into stupid things!

                                              Don’t be a useful idiot!

                                              +1 million FRN’s!

                                              And guys, if your new to this sort of thing (or frankly just plain ignorant)- do NOT talk about illegal activities around others.

                                              In the 90’s most of the people we ID’ed as not being one of us were types that wanted to push the envelope- talking about stupid shit like conversions, expl-sives, etc. I want nothing to do with that and neither do you. The final one was the “we should do sum’in about this situation” types. Again, STFU is the overriding rule of the day. We could always tell the “chevatos” (SP) because they were always in a rush and got bored really quickly when things were mundane and then tried to start those stupid conversations no one wanted started.

                                              And just like you have seen/heard of certain alphabet soup types setting up young muslims with fake explosives, etc. The same thing can/has happened with liberty minded types- Bob Starr anyone? So the best defense on “dumb” subjects- FA convert, exp-sives, ins-rrection, etc. is STFU.

                                              Back in the day people used to “get” that more. Today it’s more tough cause a whole new crowd hasn’t figured this out yet, so newer folks, understand it’s not subjects any of us want to discuss.

                                              www.jrhenterprises.com

                                              Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                                              Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                                            • #129874
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                And guys, if your new to this sort of thing (or frankly just plain ignorant)- do NOT talk about illegal activities around others.

                                                Even hypothetical talk is dangerous!

                                                Few have the training and characteristics to deal with this type of thing.

                                                I encourage everyone to read the “Rats” thread I just bumped!

                                                Even if you have read it before, read it again! B-)

                                              • #129882
                                                Max
                                                Keymaster

                                                  Robert and Joe are absolutely right, and realistic. We live in a world where you have to be realistic and understand that agencies will be all over your ass if you are talking unlawful action.

                                                  I agree, but also disagree to an extent. That is a nuance, and to explain that, what I mean is that we are entering unique circumstances. For example in Virginia. Thus, we absolutely have the right to discuss our current political situation and what may or may not happen, what is right and wrong, for example in VA next summer. Writing specific action plans or plans for rebellion on this forum is crazy. I’ll shoot the shit with you in meatspace and we can moan like fuck about circumstances, but there will he provocateurs there in all likelihood. I’m sure FBI would love to jump on MVT over some ‘plot’.

                                                  We are doing the right thing with our moves to create 2A sanctuaries. My thread ‘just arrst them’ was meant, but not meant. By which I mean that it is a logical approach to treason, but none of us are actually going to attempt that step. It’s a philosophical game at this point.

                                                  Thus, we do what we can. If things go to shit in VA, we have to react accordingly in self defense. We have already posted some thought pieces injecting some reality into the whole ‘cold dead hands thing.’ None of us will do anything on our own. If Constituational rule of law is truly lost in VA, as a result of new legislation, in 202O, we can only watch what the people of the state do. I.e. do people reject a firearms ban, or do they simply comply. No man is an island. It’s all conjecture at this point.

                                                  Don’t be the lone wolf who tries to start some shit, and don’t be the guy who is persauded to take the ‘explosive’ off that agent provocateur!

                                                  Typed from a Walmart in New Hampshire…..

                                                • #129890
                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                  Moderator

                                                    I agree, but also disagree to an extent. That is a nuance…

                                                    Absolutely!

                                                    A calm rational approach is required. Do not mistake my cautionary warnings to neuter your discussion or action.

                                                    Like most things in life we all have our individual gifts.

                                                    Use your gifts, but carefully judge the purpose of operating outside of your gifts as well as the potential consequences.

                                                    The current situation in Virginia can be viewed as a testbed and litmus of the reality of our quest for Liberty.

                                                    States like California have changed slowly over decades. Virginia’s fall can be measured in years and this current Socialist push maybe measured in months.

                                                    This attempt to fast track tyranny in Virginia will provide a template for both Liberty and Socialist alike.

                                                    Will Liberty minded Virginians truly stand up or will they meekly submit after much talk?

                                                    Will the Socialists learn to slow their quest for power or are they free to proceed fullspeed?

                                                    We will see all too soon.

                                                  • #129891
                                                    T
                                                    Participant

                                                      Had experience with Walmart. Tread carefully there.

                                                    • #129892
                                                      trailman
                                                      Participant

                                                        Remember who wrote it / passed it. I somehow don’t think it will be used against ANTIFA.

                                                        Look at the bigger picture.

                                                      • #129893
                                                        DiznNC
                                                        Participant

                                                          That last is some funny shit. OK, typed from the central Caroline MSS:

                                                          I can tell you from experience in Kali, it wuz basically a big nuthin’ sandwich. They said register ’em, we all ignored it; they outlawed ’em, and like wise. I think back in the 90’s there was less than 3% compliance. Seriously. So I would speculate here, and say the vast majority of Virginians will simply ignore the bans, and quietly carry on.

                                                          All it does is give them a huge club to hit you with, if you try and organize and do anything in public. If your shit remains cached at home, probably no worries. Or, if your shit is cached in National Forest, you can’t be prosecuted for it. Hypothetically speaking of course.

                                                          With the caveat that this is a new day, with whole new generations of folks with AR’s, and a federal government that is far worse than most folks even imagined, before Trump kicked over the rot and all the cockroaches scurried for cover.

                                                          Shit’s gettin’ real y’all.

                                                        • #129924
                                                          gramma
                                                          Participant

                                                            FYI – I was in LGS in Frederick Co last week; they have a petition out to sign for county commissioners, to make themselves a 2nd Amendment sanctuary. That’s already passed in a handful of counties. I’m hoping it’s passed in Frederick, too.

                                                            There was a reason I didn’t even LOOK at property in Va, when I moved. It was already pretty insane in 2010. (When we left.)

                                                          • #129935
                                                            Robert Henry
                                                            Participant

                                                              The libcomms have figured out they if they announce that are seeking 120% of what they are actually after and then later only get 80% that we as conservatives will breathe a sigh of relief afterwards and go “well at least they didn’t get..” or worse yet, think we actually won something.

                                                              So it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see the VA libcomms walk back their crap or “settle” for just a ban but no confiscation, etc. and act like “you conservatives should be happy now” while walking away smiling going “yeah we got all we wanted this go around.”

                                                              Every pro 2A meeting/rally that is going to get press needs to have a couple of black gun owners with signs bringing up the “gubnors” black face incident(s) that the lamestream media has conveniently forgotten. Maybe a pic of him in blackface with a caption like “I will not allow a racist to take my guns!” Or “Mr. Northam (or whatever the hell his name is) what are you trying to get people’s attention off of?” with a pic of the black face deal.
                                                              I’m dead serious, people need to see that.

                                                              • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by Robert Henry.

                                                              www.jrhenterprises.com

                                                              Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                                                              Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                                                            • #130071
                                                              Max
                                                              Keymaster

                                                                Coming back to this paramilitary thing, which if the current law had lapsed, I was not aware. So it is either being renewed or updated. But they seem to have added the clause about mustering or marching in protest, possibly anticipating protests in 2020 when they pass their anti-2A laws.

                                                                The main thing is that it is about intent for civil disorder. Hence why, even though I run training in WV, students have to declare in the disclaimer packet that your intent is to not do such things. Because civil disorder in any state isn’t going to make the Feds happy, right.

                                                                My post Thanksgiving lunch thought is this: if these laws are passed, and VA rises in protest, the paramilitary law is moot anyway. Becuase people are marching and protesting with arms. If that is what the people do in suffcient numbers. If that happens, and LEO are ordered to arrest, you have Lexington Green right there.

                                                                It seems that the VA legislature plans to ride the tiger. They either have the modd of the people right, or they have it wrong. If they pass laws banning 2A and also banning protest, and people rise to protest, then I suspect riding the tiger will not be a good plan for them.

                                                                It is entirely possible that Old Virginny becomes the beginning and center of the coming war. The laws are coming, it depends on the reaction of the people if the tiger needs to be ride by the elites, or not.

                                                                Typed post Thanksgiving lunch from a private residence in Maine.

                                                              • #130184
                                                                DiznNC
                                                                Participant

                                                                  Why do you keep confirming your geo-location to NSA? Or is this Maskirovka? Heh heh.

                                                                • #130226
                                                                  chant8tones
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Everyone take care.

                                                                    I didn’t know I was able to view the contents of the forum without logging in. Is there a reason why the contents are viewable to the publicly in this way?

                                                                    • #130248
                                                                      Max
                                                                      Keymaster

                                                                        It’s a public forum. Private parts of the forum are the alumni and Team Rekkr forums. But you have to be an alumni to be part of those.

                                                                        • #130267
                                                                          chant8tones
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            I wonder if it is not potentially harmful to your work though to have it so easily accessible to the public, even if the forum were innocent. Even claiming that the purpose is “defense” may be exploited by the crafty as being a malicious intent. It is similar to the problem of social media (and I was following MVT on social media platforms for a long time before registering for the forum) — while the internet can be useful in advertising a business, there are downsides to that, and one can’t be too careful with those who would seek to curb liberty and those promoting liberty by any means necessary.

                                                                            • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by chant8tones.
                                                                          • #130269
                                                                            Max
                                                                            Keymaster

                                                                              Why would you wonder that? My work is in the public domain, in books and via tactical training. It is entirely legal. Your assumptuon that it should somehow be better hidden attributes some sort if guilt to tactical training for Free Armed Citizens.

                                                                              And in fact, this attitude is exactly a response to paranoia that those opposed to Freedom would like to create. The paranoid hiding response that is so often seen. I would proposes that, for example, events in VA will create some posturing, but mostly people will run and hide in paranoid fear, which is exactly the response intended.

                                                                              I also guarantee you that the more you try and hide something, the more you will attract attention from agencies, due to presumptions of guilt.

                                                                        • #130244
                                                                          BILLY
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            “Link to AP removed by Max”

                                                                            NCSCOUT points out the obvious, that half of the inhabitants of lower Virginia will become felons if this is passed

                                                                            • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Max.
                                                                            • #130247
                                                                              Max
                                                                              Keymaster

                                                                                Do me a favor and don’t link to AP. These are the very people I often reference when talking of goofy trainers.

                                                                                Also, I already posted, but the VA anti-paramilitary law is already a thing, and has been since I started MVT in 2012. I mentioned that they seem to have added the protesting clause. However, the key thing is if what you do furthers civil disorder, which it shouldn’t if you run a professional tactical training company.

                                                                                Oh, and also for the nuggets emailing me about MVT moving out of VA, the VTC is in WV, which they would have known if they had trained.

                                                                            • #130271
                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                I wonder if it is not potentially harmfuL…

                                                                                The MVT Forum has been open, then by paid subscription, and now open. The brief subscription period helped to limit kooks and establish are own standards of conduct that continues due to the quality of serious members.

                                                                                Those that seek to limit Liberty will have no problem joining; to include a paid site, to have access.

                                                                                Additionally if you’ve spent anytime on other forums, you are aware that we are quite different and stand above the rest.

                                                                                Considering the false bravado and hubris displayed elsewhere; demonstrating what I call a den of lunatics, what would we need to conceal?

                                                                                Our personal security is only as good as we individually strive for.

                                                                                We are all already on someone’s radar/list anyway. ;-)

                                                                                We either strive for a community of like-minded people or we have already lost IMHO.

                                                                              • #130313
                                                                                Robert Henry
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  On the wilder end of the spectrum, Alex Jones saying this could also apply to H2H combatives-

                                                                                  Proposed Virginia Law Would Outlaw Krav Maga, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Kickboxing, Tai Chi, Firearms Instruction and Self-Defense Training

                                                                                  In Alex Jones voice- “You see the GLOBALISTS want you to not be able to arm bar one of their FACIST STORMTROOPERS when they come to put you in a FEMA camp AFTER they take your AR15…”

                                                                                  www.jrhenterprises.com

                                                                                  Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                                                                                  Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                                                                                • #130327
                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                    On the wilder end of the spectrum…

                                                                                    Well it isn’t like Virginians couldn’t use the extra help of even more people! ;-)

                                                                                    I say run with it! B-)

                                                                                  • #130515
                                                                                    dg
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      Quote from the bill: “or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons”.

                                                                                      It also means karate, BJJ, Muai Thai, etc.

                                                                                      Growing up as a teenager in the Soviet Union, I was lucky to be accepted into a closed club where a former spetznaz sergeant was teaching karate. I was accepted only because this guy was my father’s friend.

                                                                                      The thing is, until 1988, teaching and studying martial arts was a crime in the USSR, and several high-profile teachers went to prison for that.
                                                                                      Needless to say, possession of firearms was outlawed, too, except some shotguns and bolt-action rifles used by a tiny amount of hunters. In my 30 years of life in the Soviet Union and post-Soviet Russia, until I came to the U.S. in 2001, I had not known a single legal gun owner there. I was robbed at a gunpoint once, but that just proves my point, which is: of course, the government did not want the serfs to be able to resist whatever the Soviet/Russian government (the world’s 2nd-place champion in democide) wanted to do to the serfs.

                                                                                      I wonder who hates Americans more: ISIS, modern Russian/Chinese/whatever nationalists, or the democratically elected government of the state of Virginia.

                                                                                      Welcome to the USSA, comrades!

                                                                                      • This reply was modified 6 days, 21 hours ago by dg.
                                                                                    • #130547
                                                                                      arealcorker
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        Just watching a video in your own home on how to do any of these things would also be considered illegal!!

                                                                                      • #130549
                                                                                        Max
                                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                                          I think some of you need to calm down a little. :scratch:

                                                                                        • #130551
                                                                                          Max
                                                                                          Keymaster

                                                                                            Current law, since 1987. Chill the fuck out people. This is not a nutjob wingnut site. Sheesh. This certainly does not affect the activities of MVT. It will likely be used against you if you protest with firearms when enacted.

                                                                                            § 18.2-433.2. Paramilitary activity prohibited.
                                                                                            A person shall be guilty of unlawful paramilitary activity, punishable as a Class 5 felony if he:

                                                                                            1. Teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such training will be employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder; or

                                                                                            2. Assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ such training for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder.

                                                                                            1987, c. 720.

                                                                                            • This reply was modified 6 days, 17 hours ago by Max.
                                                                                          • #130556
                                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                            Moderator

                                                                                              Chill the fuck out people.

                                                                                              :good:

                                                                                              They want to ban your useful firearms as well, might want to focus on that!

                                                                                            • #130634
                                                                                              SeanT
                                                                                              Keymaster

                                                                                                FYI – I was in LGS in Frederick Co last week; they have a petition out to sign for county commissioners, to make themselves a 2nd Amendment sanctuary. That’s already passed in a handful of counties. I’m hoping it’s passed in Frederick, too.

                                                                                                The Frederick county commission meeting is December 11, 7-9 PM
                                                                                                I will be there.

                                                                                              • #130636
                                                                                                SeanT
                                                                                                Keymaster

                                                                                                  Why do you keep confirming your geo-location to NSA? Or is this Maskirovka? Heh heh.

                                                                                                  Geo-locating Internet traffic is trivial Diz.

                                                                                                • #130664
                                                                                                  SeanT
                                                                                                  Keymaster

                                                                                                    Quote from the bill: “or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons”.

                                                                                                    It also means karate, BJJ, Muai Thai, etc.

                                                                                                    It also means practicing Medicine. Death by medical malpractice or ‘accident’ is quite frequent.

                                                                                                    I think the point was that the wording is poorly written and would have unintended consequences.

                                                                                                    • This reply was modified 6 days ago by SeanT.
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