Saving Private Ryan- knife work

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    • #62019
      Robert
      Participant

        Taught a into to knife defense class recently and for funsies at the end we looked at the infamous knife kill scene near the end of the movie.

        I’ve had people say “that’s about the hardest thing to get out of, what could he have done?” in a real defeatist way.

        The answer is ridiculously simple. We shot some video also, but it’s crazy long so I’ll have to try to edit it down so we can transfer it.

        So here’s the scene (see pic), your mounted (guy on top all his weight pressing down. He’s got a doubled up grip driving the knife down to your chest. Your on bottom. You form a frame with your arms or try to grasp his wrists with yours.

        See the scene in Private Ryan if you aren’t getting this.

        So bigger guy wins right? Not necessarily.

        So let’s start right from where the movie was, just before the famous “shhhh sshhhhhhhh” part LOL.

        Bottom guy will keep the frame or wrist lock and give him resistance. Top guy in response is 99% of the time going to do what??? Give you more damn resistance. It becomes a who’s stronger fight.

        Bottom guy will simply release and redirect all at once, either to the right or the left side of his body.

        Most of time I’ve done this working with people that don’t have a good grappling base, they will typically come so far off you can just switch your hips and come into guard or even pass. Don’t forget the knife!

        90% of the time when doing this out on the dirt, the training knife ends up digging into the dirt at this point, further facilitating escape. Either way, lock out to control/redirect any further movement of the knife and ideally switch your hips to end up in a better position.

        If the person on top has a good “base” usually from a background in wrestling, jitz, etc. he will still be compromised enough for you to flow right into a standard mount escape. Nothing fancy at this point, the basics work, and he WILL be off balanced.

        Remember there is never an impossible training situation, there is just situations you need to explore and train for. Gun to your back, someone with a rear naked choke on you, knife to your throat, etc all these bad positions can be worked from. Better to try than the alternative right?

        I’ll try to edit the video down and post it also.

      • #62020
        Corvette
        Participant

          Hard to tell if he is in guard or mounted at that point in film. Looks like he is in guard. Pull him in close. Trap and roll. Pray. Basic BJJ.

        • #62021
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            Good stuff, there’s a lot ignorance out there regarding anything to do with knives.

            I guess knives are too uncivilized! ;-)

          • #62022
            Robert
            Participant

              Hard to tell if he is in guard or mounted at that point in film. Looks like he is in guard. Pull him in close. Trap and roll. Pray. Basic BJJ.

              I’ll have to pull that DVD and watch that scene again, I thought he was in mount.

              Either way, the concept should work similar from guard as well.

            • #62023
              wheelsee
              Participant

                I have forgotten terms from long ago but if the bottom person raises both knees towards the back of the assailant, then slams both feet into the ground, lifting the hips (choose whichever side you want), the assailant is thrown to that side, then its a fairly simple means of either slipping out or of now being on top……(drive your knee into their groin, multiple times for proper sharing). Caveat – worked in the gym…I have NEVER been in this position for real……

              • #62024
                Robert
                Participant

                  I think what your trying to describe is the trap and roll or “upa” mount escape.

                  Bridge, trap and arm and leg same side, hips up to bring their weight up off the ground and then turn towards the side you have everything trapped on.

                  Most people forget or don’t teach the hip up to bring their weight off the ground. Once the legs are the slightest bit detached from the ground, the turn is a lot easier.

                • #62025
                  Corvette
                  Participant

                    We would all benefit from having the trap and roll, triangle choke, arm bar, and defenses for each in our tool kit. 90 days of BJJ lessons from a good instructor will get almost anyone to that point.

                    Size, strength, and knife matter not. When it goes to ground, the person with the better BJJ is going to prevail.

                  • #62026
                    Robert
                    Participant

                      So if what I wrote didn’t make sense to you, I found a pic that might help.

                      This is right after the bottom person released and redirected their hold on the wrists or their frame.

                      Really, his legs should be posted better so he can get a good bridge or bump and complete the escape. But you get the idea of where the knife ends up immediately after the release. If you see the two in the background of the pic, that guy on bottom has his legs posted better for escaping. You bridge or bump better with your feet closer to your butt and core of your body.

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