Round count for HEAT 1?

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    • #142375
      Tony S
      Participant

        The current HEAT 1 page doesn’t show the estimated round count the way the other pages do. Given that HEAT 0.5 has a round count of 800, should I just double that for HEAT 1? Given the recent discussions on M855/M193 and Max’s comment to basically not ‘waste’ either at class, I’m looking at how much I’ve got of other types and what I need to order for the March HEAT 1 class if I’m (likely) short. Thanks.

        • This topic was modified 4 months ago by Tony S. Reason: Fixed typo
      • #142380
        Max
        Keymaster

          Work on 400 rounds per day. 500 if you have an itchy trigger finger.

          This probably means that I haven’t sent out the class info packets fro March HEAT, which I really need to do.

          Thanks for asking.

        • #142384
          DiznNC
          Participant

            1,000 rds is a good rough estimate. You may shoot a little more, or less. I will usually burn through about 1100 rds in a class like this.

            The comment about not “wasting” ammo like M193 or M855 means to buy some cheap-er, not necessarily the cheap-ist ammo that is expendable for class. It’s a balance between having a training round you can burn through, but yet something that is still reliable enough to feed and function in your rifle.

            Winchester/LC, Privi, Fed LC/American Eagle, PMC, etc. Wolf/Barnaul is there, IF it works in your rifle. There has been much written on this here. Basically if you have a solid, rack grade AR, it will run. But if you have a bargain brand AR, it may not function well. There are many reasons for this, too much to go into here. But the main thing is that the better your rifle is, the more it can tolerate chitty ammo. See the 1st Sgt’s posts on rifles. And ammo too I suppose.

            Test this out before class if at all possible.

            • This reply was modified 4 months ago by DiznNC.
          • #142401
            Tony S
            Participant

              Work on 400 rounds per day. 500 if you have an itchy trigger finger.

              This probably means that I haven’t sent out the class info packets fro March HEAT, which I really need to do.

              Thanks for asking.

              Okay, so 4 days x 400-500 rounds =~ 1,600-2,000 rounds. I ordered some 55gr Winchester/Lake City stuff that should be enough to cover that, apparently SGAmmo is slammed though, so hopefully I ordered it in enough time to get here before class. Just in case anyone else signed up for the class has the same need to stock up for the class, you might want to get on that in case your preferred source is also running behind.

            • #142431
              Robert Henry
              Participant

                More is always better.

                First CTT/Heat 1 I took my son to one of the guys had to bail the last day. Max asked for volunteers to run the drills 2X- once in their current team and a 2nd time to fill out the missing person. My son raised his hand. I said “your going to be tired but you’ll get a helluva lot of practice.” I stuffed mags to keep him running and he got more runs in.

                That reason alone would be why we should always bring a little more than noted.

                www.jrhenterprises.com

                Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

              • #142683
                DiznNC
                Participant

                  My bad I ASSumed a 2-day class!

                  Good point on the volunteer runs. Burns up more ammo but gets you more training.

                  • This reply was modified 4 months ago by DiznNC.
                • #142690
                  Tony S
                  Participant

                    My bad I ASSumed a 2-day class!

                    Good point on the volunteer runs. Burns up more ammo but gets you more training.

                    No worries, I appreciate the info! I’ll definitely bring extra ammo in case there’s an opportunity for extra runs.

                  • #142750
                    DiznNC
                    Participant

                      Yeah there is a range of what you’ll go through; I was always on the high side.

                      There seem to be two schools of thought I’ve seen throughout the years. The first is to give “covering fire” within your sector, which is what is generally taught. For example, if we are doing a night ambush, and you can’t really see a lot, I just fire within my sector: right, left, center, repeat. I can’t really see shit, but I am covering my assigned sector of fire with enough rounds to at least suppress anyone in it. Or your mates are up moving and you are covering them with enough fire to at least disrupt anyone’s aim towards them. But again within your sector of fire (don’t worry about this, Max will cover it extensively). Now this tends to use a lot of ammo.

                      There is a second school of thought, that I’ve seen through the years, and it’s not necessarily anything that’s taught, but just something some folks have a tendency to do. And that is, pretty much only firing when you have something to shoot at. Which on the face of it, sounds good, and I understand the reasoning behind it, but at the end of the day, there are times and places you need to be blasting away. And you guessed it, this does conserve ammo.

                      So yeah, if you did a round count after an exercise, most guys will have about the same amount of ammo they burned through. But then there’s THAT guy who only used about 30 rds. When you ask him why, he will say that’s all the targets I saw. OK, but that kinda defeats the whole purpose of fire and maneuver. If I wuz your fire team leader we are going to have a discussion (not to mention Max or the 1st Sgt).

                      I was always the “other” guy, that upon consolidation, more often than not, needed more ammo, as we re-distributed it amongst ourselves. If you want to be a good team mate, then you want to be on this side of the deal, IMHO.

                      Now the caveat to this thought. While you are learning this stuff, you need to maintain good SA (situational awareness) during the drills. You can’t just tunnel in on the targets and keep blasting away (although this seems to be what I’m suggesting); while you are down and covering your mates, you put out some rapid fire, but you have to be ready to displace on demand, keeping track of your mates, as well as the enemy. And this is the crux of learning fire and maneuver, which you will become intimately familiar with.

                      On the lanes at the VTC, I found that after I fired 2-3 rounds, I needed to be looking around and seeing what was going on. Is the other element down and providing fire? Is my element ready to get up and move? Where is the enemy (they can “move” as well). So you’re BRM (basic rifle marksmanship) is compressed to get rapid, well aimed fire out (thus my point), but within the context of a rapidly moving firefight.

                      Or yeah like Max said, about 500 rds per day.

                    • #144119
                      LittleBigBill
                      Participant

                        A valuable lesson I learned at Texas 2020 was to send 2-3 rounds to your target then look around at your team to see what’s happening. This automatically gets you out of your tunnel vision and keeps you safer as a team member.

                        I was emphatically called down by Max (deserved it!) for continuing to shooting at a target after the target was “down”. Tunnel vision and lack of awareness had had it’s hold on me. And for the whole class, I ended up shooting 25% more ammo than called for. So if you can, bring at least that much more.

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