Remington 1100 Project

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    • #91450
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        I recently adopted a Remington 1100 into my safe. Mechanically sound, but spent some time neglected in the Florida humidity. It has some exterior surface rust. Haven’t looked up the actual data, but it seems to be a late 70’s early 80’s vintage with 26″ skeet barrel.

        Introduced in 1963 the Model 1100 became the first really successful gas-operated semi-auto shotgun. With over 4 million made it was quite the success story for a sporting arm.

        Surprisingly it still holds the world record for the most shots fired through a semi-auto shotgun without malfunction or cleaning at 24,000 rounds fired (set in 1978).

        Another unique historical tidbit was the Model 7188 select fire which was basically a Model 1100 with a modified trigger group. Mentioned in “Point Man” by James Watson. While used in Vietnam it never really took off.


        Here is a well done clone of one in semi-auto.

        I have to admit I like the look! ;-)

        Well back to my 1100.

        Traditionally I like to have a longer barrel suitable for hunting and something in the 18-20″ range for slugs and defense.

        Before anyone jumps in about shotguns in combat/defense!

        Unlike its versatility for hunting. the shotgun in combat is a niche or specialty weapon. Limited to breaching and CQB in its original sense, such as dense jungle warfare and obsolete trench warfare.

        Ammunition is heavy and bulky. Truly mastering rapid reloads takes serious practice. Finding yourself in more open terrain against a rifle equipped adversary would put you in a serious disadvantage.

        Under certain conditions; such as patrolling a dense mangrove swamp/freshwater swamp, a shotgun on point could with an experienced shotgunner added to an otherwise rifle/carbine equipped squad may be of use. Few of us have these conditions.

        So for most, the effort to master the shotgun in combat just isn’t worth the time that could be better spent on other training IMHO.

        With that out of the way, I still think having a shorter barrel available is worthwhile.

        I haven’t decided what way I’ll go with this 1100, classic, utilitarian, or a somewhere in between?

        Should be a fun project and maybe useful for those who have never done a DIY restoration.

        Will post some pictures of it soon.

      • #91451
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Well I spent some time firing a variety of loads from light field to OO Buck. Functioned fine, based on the visual inspection of internals I don’t think it was fired much given its age.

          It uses a O ring as part of the gas system and it’s old with a few small nicks. The fact that this didn’t cause problems speaks well of the design IMHO.

          You can order a Remington replacement for around $6 or you can order a pack of fifty 021 Viton O-rings from McMaster-Carr providing a lifetime supply.

          Still dwelling on fancy refinish or utilitarian. :unsure:

        • #91452
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            One thing I dislike about Remington shotguns is the safety, I truly believe that Mossberg safety is superior.

            There is a reasonably priced solution by Vang Comp Systems.
            VCS REMINGTON DOME HEAD SAFETY

            DESCRIPTION
            The venerable Vang Comp Dome Head Safety switch. These are turned from a solid piece of steel bar-stock. This nifty little device works perfect if you shoot with gloves or just need a safety switch that you can toggle without having to think about it or take your eyes off of the action.

            Each Remington Dome Head Safety features the following:

            All machined steel safety button
            Black Oxide Finish
            100% Made in the U.S.A.
            Fits: Remington 870/1100/11-87 12ga or 20ga. Also fits Remington pump action rifles.

            At a reasonable $15.00 it is must have modification for me on the Remington 870, 1100, and 11-87 shotguns.

          • #91453
            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
            Moderator

              Here is the Remington 1100 I am working on.

            • #91454
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                I’ve been working on removing rust.

                My initial effort has involved the “penny method,” you take a real copper penny, oil the rusted area, and use penny to scrape rust off the area.

                The real copper is much softer the steel and will remove rust without damaging finish as long as you don’t press too hard.

                Another method that works well is Electrolysis with a battery charger.

                Note: These methods work well for rehabing tools of all sorts.

              • #91455
                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                Moderator

                  Here’s a couple of videos demonstrating the electrolysis method.

                • #91456
                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                  Moderator

                    Some more info, plus a caution note.

                    Rust Removal via Electrolysis

                    Caution: Removing rust with this method can cause a phenomenon called hydrogen embrittlement where parts over about 40RC in hardness will absorb hydrogen, and in the process become very brittle, sometimes catastrophically so. To remedy this, after removing the rust I bake the parts in my kitchen oven at 375-degrees F for about 4 hours. This does not harm the heat-treating.

                  • #91457
                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                    Moderator

                      Available finishes

                      Quality Bluing and parkerizing can be great finishes with parkerizing being more durable and bluing being very beautiful when time is taking to properly prepare metal. The deep blue mirror finish of early S&W revolvers being a favorite of mine. However it is difficult to maintain in the environments I use firearms in.

                      Lastly both are very inefficient to do right on the individual level and are more than I want spend to have done professionally.

                      In the next post I’ll discuss available options to recreate equivalent appearing finishes.

                    • #91458
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        There are many products available suitable for firearms and I won’t be giving a comprehensive study of all of them.

                        So you want a rich classic appearing blue mirror finish?

                        Most should be aware of DuraCoat, they have been providing reasonably durable spray-on firearms finishes for years. Particularly for camouflage purposes. Ranging from air cured to baked on.

                        For the most part it is more durable than spray paint, but like any paint job the key is in proper preparation of surface.

                        That said if you want a durable blued finish, the relatively new DuraBlue maybe a good option for you.

                        Properly done it does an amazing job of simulating various blued finishes.

                      • #91459
                        Civilianresponder
                        Participant

                          I did a couple guns with duracoat ( air cured) and was pretty impressed with the finish. I sold the guns so I don’t know how the finish holds up but it seemed durable and looked nice. The prep was a lot of work as I took both guns down to bear metal, you also have to be careful of your thickness for parts tolerances.

                        • #91460
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            So you like the appearance of parkerizing, but don’t want to deal with the hassle of the real deal or perhaps your looking for that unique look of WWII era parkerizing?

                            Again DuraCoat has some options with DuraPark.

                            Available in light gray, dark gray, black, WWII green, and gray green. Besides the color, the tactile feel of parkerizing is achieved by a final overspray method coat.

                            So you like this concept, but don’t want to spend DuraCoat prices on DuraPark?

                            For many decades now, before these other products existed. I have used high temperature BBQ paint, available in many shades from gray to black in a satin finnish. Many of these paints cure to a harder finish by baking in a oven. This creates a durable low cost alternative that is very functional.

                          • #91461
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              The prep was a lot of work as I took both guns down to bear metal, you also have to be careful of your thickness for parts tolerances.

                              :good:

                              The better your prep, the better your results!

                            • #91462
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                Of course I won’t be refinishing until I complete any mods and decide on a look.

                              • #91463
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  Definite modifications:
                                  Magazine tube extension (2 or 4 rounds depending on choosing 18.5″ or 22″ barrel).

                                  Barrel choice: If I go with the 18.5″ barrel I’ll keep 26″ barrel for hunting versatility. If I go with 22″ barrel w/remchoke capability, I’ll trade current barrel towards replacement barrel since screw in chokes will more than compensate for a variety of roles.

                                  Heatshield, possibly roll my own to recreate Model 7188 style.

                                  Choose appropriate sling.

                                  Possible modifications:
                                  Larger charging handle.

                                  Replace standard Remington Carrier Assembly w/Competition Master Carrier Assembly.

                                  If I choose 22″ barrel w/remchoke consider Paradigm SRP’s GATOR choke (modern version of the Duckbill shotgun spreader) I’ve wanted to tryout one of these since hearing about them as a kid. ;-)

                                • #91464
                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                  Moderator

                                    Doubt I want to deal with SBS paperwork, but still kinda neat.

                                    Features Include:
                                    Barrel Shortened to 14″.
                                    BWE’s Patent Pending Short Barrel Choke & Recoil Improvement System which Includes Lengthening the Forcing Cone and Installing Remchokes (Includes 1 Modified Choke Tube).
                                    Stock Shortened to 13″ LOP.
                                    Custom Fitted Kick EEZ Recoil Pad with the Heel Canted Approximately 45 degrees to Allow Faster Shouldering from the “Low Gun” Position.
                                    BWE Firearms Model 1100 One Shot Magazine Extension.
                                    High-Visibility Follower.
                                    Heavy-Duty Magazine Tube Spring.

                                    Recomended Upgrades: Remington Competition Master Carrier (makes reloading faster and easier)
                                    Options Include Sights and Rails, Large Operating Handles and Safeties, 4 or 6 Round Side Saddles, Sling Adapters, Stocks, Bluing, Parkerizing, and Duracoat Finishes.
                                    All NFA Rules Apply.

                                  • #91465
                                    A_A_Ron2guns
                                    Participant

                                      I love a good comeback story! I’d have voted for original restoration but it looks like that ship has sailed.

                                      While I’m a child of direct combat guns in black plastic and parkerizing I can’t help but love the smooth oiled walnut and deep blue metal of quality old school work guns.

                                    • #91466
                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                      Moderator

                                        I love a good comeback story! I’d have voted for original restoration but it looks like that ship has sailed.

                                        I am leaning towards using the DuraBlue to recreate that rich deep bluing, but in a more durable format.

                                        It would be easy to switch between original look/function and my “Sunday Best” go defend the Church look (shorter barrel, extended magazine). ;-)

                                        It’s enjoyable to fix up an older firearm and more relaxing than the world is ending propaganda on the news. :yes:

                                      • #91467
                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                        Moderator

                                          Decided to go with the factory 3 round magazine extension. You can buy a kit for $57 as depicted below.

                                          I elected to go with Numrich Gun Parts Corp (my favorite for parts) and buy a used extension for $18.65 and a extended magazine spring for $5.10 since I plan on fabricating a heat shield similar to the Model 7188 (depicted in previous post) and have no need for the barrel/tube/swivel clamp.

                                          Still leaning towards the DuraBlue finish, but have considered the WWII green DuraPark and use the available Realtree camo stock set.

                                          I am going to cut (20″) and ream/thread the barrel for Rem Choke screw in chokes. I can do this and buy a additional used barrel for hunting/clays for less than the cost of a new replacement barrel.

                                          Remember though this will have many useful functions, I am not trading my AR for a shotgun. ;-)

                                          Just a fun project that combines some hobbies.

                                        • #91468
                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                          Moderator

                                            Here’s my thoughts on magazine extension tubes. I don’t mix metals, so no aluminum tubes for me. A proper extension doesn’t need some Gucci follower to make up for poor machining.

                                            For gàmes/bird hunting it doesn’t matter, but for use on anything dangerous whether two or four legged I require a minimum 250 trouble free rounds (any firearm) after a modification.

                                            So shot a case of game loads with no problems.

                                          • #91469
                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                            Moderator

                                              A brief update, I cut existing barrel to 20″ and added factory 3 round extension with new magazine spring.

                                              I used a hand pipe cutter to initially cut barrel to 20 1/16″

                                              Low tech but effective.

                                              I then used a shotgun muzzle facing tool on a drill press.

                                              Using an appropriate sized bushing keeps everything square. I’ll hold off on crowning until I decide whether to ream and tap barrel for screw in chokes.

                                              I still need to remove front site from old barrel piece and silver solder it on reduced length barrel.

                                              I need to test fire some medium and light loads to verify function since its gas operated. May have to increase size of gas ports though it works fine as is with high brass buckshot.

                                              Before

                                              After

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                                            • #91470
                                              Civilianresponder
                                              Participant

                                                Looks great. :good:

                                              • #91471
                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                Moderator

                                                  It’s much handier this way and I like the old school look with blued finnish and wood. A pleasant change from typical tactical look of today.

                                                  The extension makes it a 7 1 shell capacity.

                                                • #91472
                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                  Moderator

                                                    I need to test fire some medium and light loads to verify function since its gas operated. May have to increase size of gas ports though it works fine as is with high brass buckshot.

                                                    So I tested a box of 25 of the lightest loads I typically use. I had one failure to eject.

                                                    Overall this is better than I expected. I now need to consider whether I should open up gas ports (2 ports exist in this barrel) or do some more test shots.

                                                    This needs to be done very cautiously to strike a good balance so lighter loads function, but heavy loads do not cause excessive wear.

                                                    The best way I have to accomplish this is to take a numbered drill bit set and find the bit that just fits in gas ports. Then go one size up. Using a jig to hold barrel on a drill press. It doesn’t take much to change things.

                                                    I still need to torch old front sight off and silver solder it on to new location.

                                                    I have been experimenting with cold gluing formulas on removed barrel scrap to find a good match for touching up when done.

                                                  • #91473
                                                    A_A_Ron2guns
                                                    Participant

                                                      Looks great!

                                                    • #91474
                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                      Moderator

                                                        Thanks, nothing too difficult and it’s enjoyable.

                                                        The 1100 is not as fast as some of the newer offerings, but it’s proven technology, very light recoil, and easy to run.

                                                      • #91475
                                                        zeerf
                                                        Participant

                                                          Nice looking project Joe! Glad to hear it ran better than you expected.

                                                        • #91476
                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                          Moderator

                                                            Replace standard Remington Carrier Assembly w/Competition Master Carrier Assembly.

                                                            This was something I considered fairly early in this project, but was persuaded to wait and get used to the 1100 before making a decision.

                                                            The 1100’s bolt release is integral to the carrier/shell lifter. Besides releasing the bolt this release must be depressed to load shells into the magazine tube. This is a good central location for left-handed users. The standard release is about 7/8 inch long and 3/8 inch wide. Initially I found this to be difficult and frustrating, but with use/practice becomes relatively easy.

                                                            The Competition Master release is 1 1/2 inch long and 3/8 inch wide. Certainly easier to hit under stress or with a inexperienced user.

                                                            This carrier was originally designed for the Model 7188 select fire shotgun, but not just for ease of loading. This carrier also increases reliability when firing from non traditional shooting positions (hip, one handed, different angles of shotgun, etc…).

                                                            The 1100 (or 7188 for that matter) is gas operated, but when fired as the bolt goes to rear and ejects shell, the following shell from magazine tube is released and travels rearward. This rearward motion of shell triggers the carrier to lift shell upward into position and releases bolt to travel forward, pushing shell into chamber. If there are no more shells in magazine tube the bolt locks open.

                                                            This inertia action of shell can be compromised by unique holds or shooting positions. This new carrier addresses this issue, remember traditional shotgun use this is almost never a issue, but for say combat/defensive use it can be.

                                                            Standard Carrier.

                                                            Competition Master Carrier.

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                                                          • #91477
                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                            Moderator

                                                              There is a aftermarket solution popular among “3 gun” geeks.

                                                              DAVES METAL WORKS – REMINGTON 1100/11-87 EASYLOADER

                                                              Installed

                                                              Besides having to fit part, reported issues until adjusted, this is not a part for serious use.

                                                              I can’t imagine using that in the field.

                                                            • #91478
                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                              Moderator

                                                                Something I’ve been considering just for appearance/fun of it, is a bayonet mount. ;-)

                                                                Yea I could make the case for it having some utility for fighting; and that’s true, but the real reason is it would look good displayed on the wall. :yes:

                                                                The factory magazine extension tube is already machined to a reduced diameter to accept bayonet, just need a bayonet lug. There are some aftermarket lugs available, but I am thinking of fabricating my own.

                                                                The old M7 Bayonet is relatively common and inexpensive.

                                                                The plastic grips are removable and it wouldn’t be too hard to make some wood replacement grips to match wood stock. Clean and polish the blade and metal components and blue to match 1100’s finish.

                                                                Remember this project though functional, is a!so meant to be fun and therapeutic. B-)

                                                              • #91479
                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                Moderator

                                                                  Originally I was going to buy an additional barrel with remchoke for the ability to use a variety of chokes depending on what I am using shotgun for at a particular time.

                                                                  Since I modified existing barrel for this project I now have three options. Live with existing bore, have a gunsmith ream and tap barrel, or do it myself.

                                                                  I can get a gunsmith to do it for around $75.00, but where is the fun in that? ;-)

                                                                  I can buy a remchoke reamer and tap set for around $350.00, obviously not cost effective for one job!

                                                                  All is not lost however, 4D Reamer Rentals out of Kalispell, Montana will rent me a Reamer, Tap and 5 bushings for $54.00 and I get it for 7 days at my location. They will rent me a tap wrench for $6.00 if I didn’t have one.

                                                                  4D Reamer Rentals has a variety of firearms tools for rent if you can’t justify buying them.

                                                                  Here is a video showing the process.

                                                                • #91480
                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                  Moderator

                                                                    I still need to remove front site from old barrel piece and silver solder it on reduced length barrel.

                                                                    I did remove old front sight, but haven’t soldered it on reduced length barrel.

                                                                    Something I decided to test is the HIVIZ MPB-TAC fiber optic front sight.

                                                                    The sight body is an overmolded steel spring that clamps down securely to most 12 gauge shotgun barrels. It is easily installed and easily removed with no tools required because the sight self-centers behind the front bead for perfect alignment.

                                                                    I have used similar sights on friends shotguns and thought them interesting and effective, but not enough to actually buy one. Purchased one on eBay for $15 for evaluation. I like it and original front sight is still present (once I solder it).

                                                                    The picture doesn’t do it justice and is not visible from the front.

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                                                                  • #91481
                                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                    Moderator

                                                                      After further testing with a variety of loads I determined the gas ports needed to be opened up.

                                                                      It functioned, but just a bit slow and sluggish.

                                                                      The Remington 1100 with 2 3/4″ chamber utilizes two gas ports . The 3″ chamber uses a single gas port.

                                                                      As mentioned before this is not a one size fits all solution. You can tune for a specific load or a range of loads. I choose a range with it just into reliable with lightest load I use.

                                                                      Additionally it takes very little increase to accomplish dramatic change. In this case increasing gas ports by .0025″ was sufficient. Certainly not the job for your basic drill bit set. ;-)

                                                                      The Competition Master Carrier Assembly proved its worth by eliminating the occasional failure to feed in unconventional holds/positions.

                                                                      The 1100 recoil is extremely pleasant by 12 gauge standards and firing several hundred shells is not the chore that a pump would have been.

                                                                      Almost done. :good:

                                                                    • #91482
                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                      Moderator

                                                                        One thought on sights.

                                                                        Simple bead vs ghost ring sights?

                                                                        Shotgunners have been smoking fast flying clay disc targets for generations with the simple bead sight. The clay target is a little over 4 1/4″ in diameter flying on a smaller edge.

                                                                        So why would we suddenly need ghost rings to hit a person?

                                                                        Ghost rings are for rifleman who occasionally use a shotgun. Even slugs are plenty accurate with the bead sight within normal shotgun ranges. If you need to make longer shots don’t take your shotgun.

                                                                        So I am not saying no one should use ghost ring sights on shotguns, but this fetish that they are a must have is insane. ;-)

                                                                        YMMV

                                                                      • #91483
                                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                        Moderator

                                                                          New From Black Aces Tactical: Vintage Line of Refurbished Remington 1100 Shotguns

                                                                          Excerpt:

                                                                          Black Aces Tactical, who has been making shotguns into not-shotguns since before it was cool, has a great new old product. They are buying up Remignton 1100s that were built in the 60’s to the mid 80’s and restoring them.

                                                                          Who knew I was such a trendsetter? ;-)

                                                                        • #122048
                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                          Moderator

                                                                            I found a very rare accessory for an extremely reasonable price. First let’s look at a couple of previous posts.

                                                                            Another unique historical tidbit was the Model 7188 select fire which was basically a Model 1100 with a modified trigger group. Mentioned in “Point Man” by James Watson. While used in Vietnam it never really took off.

                                                                            Here is a well done clone of one in semi-auto.

                                                                            I have to admit I like the look!

                                                                            Something I’ve been considering just for appearance/fun of it, is a bayonet mount. ;-)

                                                                            Yea I could make the case for it having some utility for fighting; and that’s true, but the real reason is it would look good displayed on the wall. :yes:

                                                                            The factory magazine extension tube is already machined to a reduced diameter to accept bayonet, just need a bayonet lug. There are some aftermarket lugs available, but I am thinking of fabricating my own.

                                                                            The old M7 Bayonet is relatively common and inexpensive.

                                                                            The plastic grips are removable and it wouldn’t be too hard to make some wood replacement grips to match wood stock. Clean and polish the blade and metal components and blue to match 1100’s finish.

                                                                            Remember this project though functional, is a!so meant to be fun and therapeutic. B-)

                                                                            There are aftermarket bayonet adapters available ranging from junk to expensive.

                                                                            The original Remington bayonet adapter came in two flavors, the MK1 with rifle sights and MK2/3 with the traditional bead sight.

                                                                            The above Remington 7188 clone has the MK1 version.

                                                                            The market has pretty much dried up on these adapters and when they do come available prices as much as $300 is not uncommon. Though I like the look it’s not anywhere worth those prices for me.

                                                                            I have considered making one from scratch, but never got around to it.

                                                                            This weekend I had stopped by a flea market and in a box of miscellaneous junk found a MK2/3 version. As I continued to dig through contents, vendor said I could have entire box for $20! :yahoo:

                                                                            This had a variety of miscellaneous gun parts, most you wouldn’t even known they were gun parts. Will take some time to identify them.

                                                                            So now I have to decide if I want to go 7188 look or classic blued.

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                                                                          • #122980
                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                            Moderator

                                                                              The beginning of a Model 7188 heat shield.

                                                                              Should have it roughed fitted tommorow, then drill the gazillion ventilation holes, and then prep for finish.

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                                                                            • #122986
                                                                              Andrew
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                I’m pretty sure that if one were to search the internet diligently they might find some 12 ga. flechette rounds available that seem like they might be useful in a tropical environment.

                                                                                One might have to go to Georgia (or Virginia) to find them…or have a friend there.

                                                                                Nice work on that piece!

                                                                              • #122989
                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                  Yea I am not even sure when flechette, bolo, and Dragons Breath shotgun ammo got banned in Florida. Probably while I was overseas.

                                                                                  Kind of crazy and I certainly have never heard of it being used in any crimes. :unsure:

                                                                                  Think I will add this soon.

                                                                                  Here is an interesting shotgun accessory that those that read Point Man have at least heard about.


                                                                                  Chief “Patches” Watson holding his duckbill shotgun used in Vietnam (left), and the modern GATOR equipped shotgun.

                                                                                  Interesting piece of history! ;-)

                                                                                • #123104
                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                    The beginning of a Model 7188 heat shield.

                                                                                    Should have it roughed fitted tommorow


                                                                                    Without adapter.


                                                                                    With adapter.

                                                                                    Now to plot out the gazillion ventilation holes. :yes:

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                                                                                  • #123108
                                                                                    Civilianresponder
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      cool!

                                                                                    • #123228
                                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                        Ok 145 ventilation holes and 2 stamped dimples at the forward edge of front handguard latter.

                                                                                        Here is the result…

                                                                                        I am happy!

                                                                                        It’s essentially a handmade prototype so if you look real close there are some minor issues that if I was setting up for production I could eliminate with various jigs etc…

                                                                                        Plinked a box of light target loads to ensure function and no more concern for burning fingers without gloves.

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                                                                                      • #123475
                                                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                        Moderator

                                                                                          As I’ve stated multiple times in the past and earlier in this Thread, shotguns are a niche weapon for combat. They lack the versatility of the M4.

                                                                                          Why then were they used?

                                                                                          Why do I continue to bring them up?

                                                                                          Much of my AO is extremely dense terrain, similar in some ways to parts of Vietnam; the last conflict we used shotguns in such a role. Contact distances of 15′ to 20′ would not be uncommon. In fact as little as 10′ is possible.

                                                                                          Using standard OO buck with 9 projectiles .33 in diameter using the historical Remington 7188 which fired 8 rounds in 1 second. So 480 rounds a minute, but is that the whole story?

                                                                                          That’s 72 .33 projectiles in 1 second or the equivalent of 4,320 rounds per minute.

                                                                                          Serious close range suppression! :yes:

                                                                                          So you don’t have a fullauto 7188?

                                                                                          Even a slow pump action can do half that speed and 2,160 equivalent rounds per minute is still impressive.

                                                                                          Switch to #4 buck and it’s 27 .24 projectiles and we’re up to insane 12,960 equivalent rounds per minute.

                                                                                          What if they are wearing rifle plates?

                                                                                          I consider a few things, first there is still a lot of exposed unarmored person and as we have discussed caring for that causality is difficult. Second in my AO wearing armor is difficult without becoming a heat causality the majority of the year. That 1 second roar and associated projectile cracks and zips followed by other team members react to contact is a powerful combination.

                                                                                          So should you grab your shotgun instead of your AR?

                                                                                          Probably not. ;-)

                                                                                          Unless your AO is suitable, you’re an experienced shotgunner, and you are backed up by team members with rifles/carbines.

                                                                                          Is that you?

                                                                                          Then it’s an option to consider.

                                                                                          If not, it’s a interesting look at historical use.

                                                                                        • #125349
                                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                          Moderator

                                                                                            Brief Kodak moment. :yes:

                                                                                            Functional?

                                                                                            Sure, but I really like the look too! ;-)

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                                                                                          • #125381
                                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                            Moderator

                                                                                              Something unique about this bayonet set is I have never had such a solid lockup with a bayonet!

                                                                                              When you fix bayonet on this, there is absolutely no play in any direction.

                                                                                              I think I will see about making some wood grips for this bayonet. It will go very nice with the wood shotgun furniture. :yes:

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                                                                                            • #125401
                                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                                View this post on Instagram

                                                                                                Shotguns in Combat? Unlike its versatility for hunting. the shotgun in combat is a niche or specialty weapon. Limited to breaching and CQB in its original sense, such as dense jungle warfare, and obsolete trench warfare. Ammunition is heavy and bulky. Truly mastering rapid reloads takes serious practice. Finding yourself in more open terrain against a rifle equipped adversary would put you in a serious disadvantage. Under certain conditions; such as patrolling a dense mangrove swamp/freshwater swamp, a shotgun on point could with an experienced shotgunner added to an otherwise rifle/carbine equipped squad may be of use. Such conditions are again a unique niche. So for most, the effort to master the shotgun in combat just isn’t worth the time that could be better spent on other training IMHO. Additionally, despite tactifool videos and trainers to the contrary, using a shotgun in combat has almost no relationship to defensive or law enforcement use beyond the most basic shotgun manipulations! Above rare photo of a Remington 7188 in Vietnam. Some may recognize it from a combat shotgun book, however in that book they reversed photo depicting what would have been a left hand ejection. 😉

                                                                                                A post shared by Joe (G.W.N.S.) (@joe_gwns) on

                                                                                                For emphasis!

                                                                                                Additionally, despite tactifool videos and trainers to the contrary, using a shotgun in combat has almost no relationship to defensive or law enforcement use beyond the most basic shotgun manipulations!

                                                                                              • #146654
                                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                  Update:

                                                                                                  Since I ended up going the rare “retro” theme with this Remington 1100 (Remington 7188 wannabe).

                                                                                                  So how to sling it up?

                                                                                                  The Mk series bayonet adapter takes care of the front sling point, however I had no progress finding the actual Remington rear sling swivel.

                                                                                                  So how to improvise?

                                                                                                  Nothing currently matches the style, leaving finding some sort of Military Surplus option. I wasn’t really happy with the idea of typical screw in fear swivels, just didn’t seem “beefy” enough.

                                                                                                  What I went with after some dwell time and measurements is the rear sling attachment for a M1 Garand. The Garand attachment point is installed by notching the wood and using the long length bottom buttock screw (#59) that holds the buttplate in place. This screw is threaded for the rear swivel point (#57).

                                                                                                  Sling?

                                                                                                  Can’t go wrong with the standard M1/M14 web sling.

                                                                                                  Here’s the final result.

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                                                                                                • #146658
                                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                                    So how about carrying ammo to feed the hungry Shotgun?

                                                                                                    What would look period correct, but still provide function?

                                                                                                    The old standby Claymore Bag!

                                                                                                    Yea the BFG MICRORACKminus isn’t period correct, but if I need to go into harms way with this 1100 I’ll make an exception.

                                                                                                    Now the Claymore Bags two pouches hold thirty shotshells each with room for more. Sixty shotshells plus the 18 on the BFG is a moderate to heavy shotgun loadout.

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                                                                                                  • #146684
                                                                                                    Ronin42
                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                      this is a cool thread! you don’t see much on shotgun stuff, and repairs, and updates to them.
                                                                                                      i always did like that model, reminds me of my dads old shotgun i used before i got into pump actions.

                                                                                                      makes me want to finish the repairs on the old Remington model 11 that i’m trying to put together..
                                                                                                      may use the info about finishing the blueing…will probably do a different finish instead.

                                                                                                      mvt alumni CTT & DCH
                                                                                                      some other schools..

                                                                                                      part time tactical couch potato

                                                                                                    • #146687
                                                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                                        Remington model 11

                                                                                                        That’s a fun old shotgun.

                                                                                                      • #146700
                                                                                                        Ronin42
                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                          it is!
                                                                                                          the more i’ve played with it, the more it reminds me of an old browning auto 5.
                                                                                                          wonder if i could use stocks or other parts for the auto 5. they are easier to find than parts for the model 11

                                                                                                          mvt alumni CTT & DCH
                                                                                                          some other schools..

                                                                                                          part time tactical couch potato

                                                                                                        • #146701
                                                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                          Moderator

                                                                                                            reminds me of an old browning auto 5

                                                                                                            It’s essentially a American licensed Browning Auto-5. I’ve heard some parts are interchangeable, but can’t give specifics.

                                                                                                            Numrich Gun Parts Corporation out of New York is my go to place for obscure parts, unfortunately they are closed due to the COVID-19 hysteria, but are still taking orders to be fulfilled in order they are recieved.

                                                                                                            Remington Model 11 parts for sale link.

                                                                                                            If there is something specific that they don’t have let me know and I’ll see what I can find.

                                                                                                            Edit to add:
                                                                                                            I hadn’t checked before, but it appears there aren’t any parts listed at the moment in above link. Again let me know what your looking for as I know people that have obscure knowledge on such searches.

                                                                                                          • #146705
                                                                                                            farmer
                                                                                                            Participant
                                                                                                            • #146718
                                                                                                              First Sergeant
                                                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                                                :good:

                                                                                                                FILO
                                                                                                                Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                                                                                                Je ne regrette rien
                                                                                                                In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

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