Preparations for Protection Against a Stalker

View Latest Activity

Home Forums Self-Reliance & Preparedness Security Preparations for Protection Against a Stalker

Viewing 29 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #96732
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      So a late twenties Woman who is a member of my Church approached me regarding her options regarding being harassed by a man she had dated briefly.

      I am not going to get into private details, but this is a legitimate threat to her.

      Took her to Court House to get a Restraining Order started.

      Then a couple Security cameras mounted front and back. They have motion detectors that send picture to your phone/computer when not home to monitor.

      Installed security film on bedroom Windows and ordered a solid core door to replace hollow bedroom door and a deadbolt.

      Discussed importance of keeping cellphone close at hand and charged.

      Working on situational awareness.

      Gave an initial famfire on a variety firearms, she was slightly better with a revolver than automatic and has barrowed her deceased fathers .38 revolver and a 20 gauge shotgun until she decide on what is her preference. Set her up with suitable ammo.

      Have done three training sessions so far and will continue weekly.

      She has a few dogs with one that might be defensive, but at minimum they are a decent alarm.

      I raised my daughter’s to be able to do this so they would be ready once they left home.

      Hopefully this will be enough.

    • #96733
      Civilianresponder
      Participant

      :good: great she has a resource. Most have no clue the veneer of civility is so thin and can peel away at any moment. It may be worthwhile to do a basic TCCC, tq use etc. I also think hunting can be a good preparation for having to use deadly force. Deer and squirrels are way cuter than villains.

    • #96734
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

      Good on you.

      Sounds like a good start.

      Carry permit? Issues may not just be at home.

      FILO
      Signal Out, Can You Identify
      Je ne regrette rien
      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

    • #96735
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Carry permit? Issues may not just be at home.

      I’ve brought it up and she’s thinking about it. At least she can keep it in her car.

      We’ll see.

    • #96736
      Virgil Kane
      Participant

      I misinterpreted the thread title as “tips for stalkers.” I feel let down.

      Good job, Joe. At least she knew to ask for help.

    • #96737
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      I misinterpreted the thread title as “tips for stalkers.”

      Changed title for clarity. ;-)

    • #96738
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Something to remember when assisting someone in these situations is the emotional state they find themselves in.

      It complicates training, particularly firearms self defense. Instead of a generic threat they have a specific threat. This can lead to extra stress physically and emotionally. Breathing exercises not just part of marksmanship, but stress relief should be taught.

      Many times the victim of stalking has feelings of guilt and embarrassment. These unfounded emotions need to be addressed and maybe beyond your ability. Get help as needed.

    • #96739
      wheelsee
      Participant

      Then there’s “after-the-fact” issues. Look at “dirty fighting” concepts. I worked with a young lady who had been repeatedly raped by her husband and finally left. For 3 months, we just talked. Then we started some very basic H2H (with extreme caution as I stayed away from any grab that he had done). She wouldn’t even look at a guy in the eyes.

      Long story short – it took about 18 months of working but she is now able to look at people, she will hurt you, and 6 months after that, received her CCW and owns a handgun (HUGE win for her as a gun had been used against her).

      Time, patience, and going at her pace is key……

    • #96740
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      With a female student and male instructor having another female present during instruction is helpful and a prudent precaution due to emotional status of student.

      Building confidence is as important as defense skills.

      I recommend very generic targets initially, no human silhouettes to minimize stress.

      Don’t underestimate the stress they are under.

    • #96741
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Time, patience, and going at her pace is key……

      :good: Excellent points!

      Evaluating where they are at and what they can handle is very important.

    • #96742
      wheelsee
      Participant

      Clarification- my situation was a friend of a family friend who had asked me to help. So there was a familiar face/person for her. And as stated, we only talked for the first 3 months…..most of it was general conversation (though I directed it and guided it for the information I needed to help). It also allowed her to become a little more comfortable with me…..

      Be prepared for anything…..I did a lapel grab once and I could immediately tell it was an issue as she started to shut down (she hadn’t revealed anything in our discussions of this being a previous attack) but then she fought through it and proceeded to kick my ass….. :yahoo:

    • #96743
      Thomas
      Participant

      Joe, awesome work, thank you.

      We had a situation at my house a few years ago. We layered our defenses inside and out. At this point, an intruder has to make a willful decision to come onto our property. Suggest to her that she adds an internal bolt with no outside key access to her exterior doors. While locks are for honest people, those locks placed low on the door made my wife feel much more secure inside the house.

      I hope this works out in her favor. I personally have the same opinions about stalkers that I have about child molesters.

    • #96744
      A_A_Ron2guns
      Participant

      Part of this has to be legal training (cop talk for just a second I promise) in what she is allowed to do. I’ll speak to VA law as it’s what I’m most familiar with.

      I’m virginia burglary (using force to enter a building) is considered a violent felony in and of itself. It’s assumed that the perpetrator is there to commit another violent felony. Rape, robbery, murder, arson, kidnapping etc. so deadly force is justified.

      Rape is also a violent felony. So is kidnapping. It’s assumed you’ll suffer great bodily harm or death. So again deadly force is justified.

      Your standard is whether a reasonable person would assume they were in immediate danger of great bodily harm or death.

      That’s the standard for deadly force.

      Striking a person or using less than lethal force simply requires that the person is a physical threat to you and you are in fear of being a victim of assault and/or battery.

      You are not required to be hit first or to retreat. If you think you’re going to be hit you can absolutely strike first to prevent that.

      The law is much more forgiving to a person defending themselves than most would have you believe.

      This was not legal advice. Consult and attorney for more detailed information.

    • #96745
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Fortunately Florida has practical common sense laws in this regard.

    • #96746
      Hessian
      Participant

      Joe,

      Reviewing your initial post, about weapon choices.. Did you have her shoot a 9mm sub gun like MP5, CZ scorpion, MPX or AR-9 (pistols with brace to avoid the SBR issue)?

      I would think that a semi-auto 9mm with the ability to mount an optic and light combo would be far superior to a 20 gauge shot gun.

    • #96747
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      …superior to a 20 gauge shot gun.

      The pump shotgun (and revolver) is her late Fathers and was at her Mom’s house, so no investment required. Not dealing with unlimited budget situation and her only experience had been shooting a couple of times as a young girl. Not to mention her emotional state.

      I consider her current threat level to be higher than average at actually having to use lethal force on this Stalker.

      Should she have to justify her actions in a Courtroom I consider a revolver or shotgun to be a better image as the scared victim vice a Prosecutor holding up a militaristic looking “space gun.” In a perfect world it shouldn’t matter, but show me a perfect world. ;-)

      Just my opinion.

      YMMV

      There are of course many discrete looking carbines available, but not really a option from a financial perspective.

      Additionally remember this isn’t a “gun person” or a candidate for Heat 1 at VTC (at least at this point).

      The 20 gauge and .38 I consider both to be more than adequate at stopping a stalker with appropriate ammo.

      I am a fan of PCC’s and some of the braced pistol options.

      If she develops a interest in firearms beyond emergency protection I will encourage it.

    • #96748
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

      I’m with Joe on this one. Based off of his description, the two guns she has are probably the best.

      Especially the revolver. In today’s world everybody thinks that revolvers are outdated. Far from it. For a lot of people out there a revolver is probably their best option.

      Couple of reasons for this. Ease of use. Teach them how to aim and squeeze the trigger. Malfunction drill is squeeze the trigger again. Lack of hand strength is another. There are a lot of people out there due to age or injury that flat out don’t have the strength to be able to run a slide on a semi auto pistol, especially when you get to smaller semi auto’s.

      Another thing to think about is this, most people who want or need a gun for self protection are not gun people. It is easier to teach the manual of arms for a revolver to someone like that vs. a semi auto. For the most part, they are not going to go out and start taking classes.

      Same goes for a pump shotgun, especially one in 20 Ga. Less recoil to deal with. And while the shotgun is not the shredding machine that Hollywood makes it out to be, with the right ammo, it can be devastating. More so in a home defense situation.

      Joe, if you don’t mind me asking, make and model of pistol? Barrel length? Type of defense ammo? Type of ammo for the shotgun? I have some recommendations for both.

      FILO
      Signal Out, Can You Identify
      Je ne regrette rien
      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

    • #96749
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      The revolver is a 4″ S&W K-38 Model 15 and I donated a box of Remington P 158-grain LSWC-HP. The classic .38 load, don’t know if there is better but has been my choice from back in the day. Still have most of a case left.

      The shotgun is a 26″ Remington 870 with Federal #2 Buck Buckshot (18 pellet).

      Look forward to your thoughts.

    • #96750
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

      The revolver is a 4″ S&W K-38 Model 15 and I donated a box of Remington P 158-grain LSWC-HP. The classic .38 load, don’t know if there is better but has been my choice from back in the day. Still have most of a case left.

      The shotgun is a 26″ Remington 870 with Federal #2 Buck Buckshot (18 pellet).

      Look forward to your thoughts.

      You’re right, that is the classic revolver load. Doesn’t get any better.

      Best 20 gauge shotgun defense load, Federal Premium Personal Defense 20 gauge 2-3/4″ #4 buckshot. It has the Flitecontrol wad. Has about a 5 inch spread at 15 feet depending on choke. It’s hard to find because it sells out quick.

      https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/63493

      The only other recommendation I would make is to get a shorter barrel for the 870. Easy to change. 18″ would be ideal, but 20″ would work.

      Wouldn’t be willing to part with a couple of boxes of 158 grain? ;-)

      FILO
      Signal Out, Can You Identify
      Je ne regrette rien
      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

    • #96751
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Best 20 gauge shotgun defense load, Federal Premium Personal Defense 20 gauge 2-3/4″ #4 buckshot. It has the Flitecontrol wad. Has about a 5 inch spread at 15 feet depending on choke. It’s hard to find because it sells out quick.

      Thanks, I’ve always been a 12 gauge guy so I really don’t have much knowledge regarding other gauges. Did have a old 16 gauge double about a billion years ago. ;-) Long since gone.

      Been watching out for either a shorter barrel or a beater to cut down, we’ll see what I find.

    • #96752
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      There are a lot of people out there due to age or injury that flat out don’t have the strength to be able to run a slide on a semi auto pistol, especially when you get to smaller semi auto’s.

      Years ago I had a injury that among other things compromised my ulnar nerve on my left arm.

      At the time my CCW was a 1911 and I could no longer rack the slide.

      I had to go back to my Ruger Security Six .357. I could still hold revolver with cylinder out and eject cases with left and use speed loaders with right hand.

      Fortunately it wasn’t a permanent and I recovered.

      Though I prefer my M9 now, I wouldn’t feel defenseless using a revolver.

      In fact I have been considering something like a Taurus 905SS2 5 shot 9mm revolver for a BUG.

      Taurus also makes a .380 ACP revolver that may end up being a solution for a weak Widow that is also recoil sensitive that I have been working with. Not many great solutions for her.

      S&W makes a 7 shot 9mm revolver.

      Of course there are plenty of options in more traditional calibers, but using full moon clips for 9mm and .45 ACP I consider to be far more flexible for a CCW as they are more easily concealed than speed loaders.

    • #96753
      A_A_Ron2guns
      Participant

      A nice K frame? It’ll be a shame if it goes into evidence. Oh well, that’s their purpose.

      Have you gone the speed loader route w her yet? An easy way to make sure she’s not fumbling a reload should it be necessary.

      For beginners I’d recommend loaders and not strips.

    • #96754
      A_A_Ron2guns
      Participant

      Also follow up, any sort of h2h in the future?

    • #96755
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Have you gone the speed loader route w her yet?

      Yes, though We got her a set Pachmayr grips as the original grips are a bit tight to use speed loaders and I couldn’t bring myself to modify originals.

      We are discussing possible H2H options, the good news is she’s physically fit so she should excel if we can find something suitable.

    • #96756
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

      Stay away from Taurus revolvers, or Taurus anything.

      FILO
      Signal Out, Can You Identify
      Je ne regrette rien
      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

    • #96757
      gramma
      Participant

      Good job Joe. People definitely losing their inhibitions about threatening and acting on violence. Had something similar cross my radar a week or so ago. D#2 received direct threats to herself & I from ex of D#1 (in another state) on Facebook. I haven’t had an account there for some time.

      Once I got her to stop hyperventilating and jumping to extremes, I explained the basic theory of escalation of force to her. Said to keep her mouth and fingers shut with this guy and report the posts as needed. The next weekend she came out with a friend and we got the target stands up. She shot the FN9 I’ve been using and I noticed she instinctively does some of the same things I do wrong. She’s more of a rifle girl; and worked for about an hour & half with her Swedish mauser. Pretty good too.

      Did a little intel work on this guy’s one brag; because the whole thing sounded to me like some guy “talking big” without the capability to carry it out and too dumb to know that other people CAN check out anything he claims. A week later, nothing further has happened and no more threats either. She and I will doing a lot more shooting here IF it ever stops raining. I about slid off of 50 today headed into Romney because I wasn’t paying attention to the water. Got stopped by a downed tree on the way back. Been a solid month of monsoon here.

      Driveway alarm is working like a charm and the road to my place is more invisible than ever unless you know what you’re looking for. Once on it – it looks as rugged as the entrance to MVT must look after these rains. Another day of this and it could very well become impassible.

    • #113919
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Worth another look. 😉

    • #114012
      wheelsee
      Participant

      Updates?? Nothing specific per se but maybe a review of changes made (or not)???

    • #114029
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

      Updates?? Nothing specific per se but maybe a review of changes made (or not)???

      She got her CCW and took some classes both pistol and basic H2H.

      Found a beater barrel for the 870 and I cut it down to 18.5″.

      As has been my experience the “Protection/Restraining Order” isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, several violations without consequences. It’s value is in the paper trail should self-defense be necessary.

      Fortunately it hasn’t gotten to that point as yet.

      She is much more confident and I feel she can defend herself if necessary.

    • #114047
      wheelsee
      Participant

      She got her CCW and took some classes both pistol and basic H2H.

      Found a beater barrel for the 870 and I cut it down to 18.5″.

      As has been my experience the “Protection/Restraining Order” isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, several violations without consequences. It’s value is in the paper trail should self-defense be necessary.

      Fortunately it hasn’t gotten to that point as yet.

      She is much more confident and I feel she can defend herself if necessary.

      Fantastic!! 1 person at a time folks…. teach those around you (especially your women-folk)

      My offspring is a teacher in the DFW area. They said the local PD came in and taught about Active Shooter, and to now fight back……. I told them “I aint so crazy anymore am I?”…..they just grinned….

      1 person at a time….. GREAT JOB JOE!!

Viewing 29 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.