Kurds, Syria, Turkey: Invasion?

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    • #122926
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        Some news reports are suggesting a Turkish invasion into Kurdish areas.

        I have not had time to vet these reports.

        Perhaps Rampantraptor can add any of the sites he considers of value regarding this until I can take more time to investigate.

        I am concerned with some propaganda efforts to make this about Trump vs actual facts.

        Are we turning our backs on the Kurds?

        Could we being opening up opportunity to actually deal with Turkey?

        Turkey hasn’t been a legitimate ally in quite some time and it’s decent into radical Islam is not going to help.

        So what is really happening?

        • This topic was modified 9 months ago by SeanT. Reason: Typo in title
      • #122935
        Hessian
        Participant

          This is a few days old.

          From podcasts i listen too and online reading.

          Bashar al-Assad is going to keep control of Syria.

          Turkey has a ton of refugees from Syria in their country and has threaten to release them into Europe. Erdogan is not overly popular with his population due to the influx of migrants and other issues. US troops pulling out helps the US Turkey relations. Erdogan can ease his own internal issues by sending Syrians back to Syria and deal with the Kurds.

          Since Trump stopped the covert aid to “Syrian rebels”, ISIS seems to have have nearly dissipated.

          Turning our back on the Kurds? If you want to look at it that way sure.

          Turkey is a key component on the influx of refugees into Europe. Russia has been warming up to the Turks so I believe the US trying to keep some influence and giving them the green light.

          Turkey shouldn’t be an long term ally. Our forefathers didn’t want us in unending and entangling alliances and yet here we are. “Radical Islam” It exists but I don’t see the Turkey as a whole descending into a full blown Islamic Terrorist Caliphate. Don’t forget that 15 out of the 19, 911 Hijackers were from our “Ally” Saudi Arabia.

        • #122943
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            Are we turning our backs on the Kurds?

            If you want to look at it that way sure.

            It was a question not a statement. ;-)

            Erdogan is dictator, there is some question whether he is a true believer or stiring up his Islamic base to justify expansionist aims. Regardless this puts him at odds with our interests.

            Relatively speaking he is a new dictator, Trumps threatened economic retaliation if he strays from our wishes could lead to his overthrow if enacted.

            As is typical of these conflicts, the situation is very complex with much hidden behind attempts at misdirection by everyone involved including us.

            Regarding Saudi we have only been working together for mutual benefit with little; if anything, in common. No longer being dependent on their oil, we only need stability there due to World disruptions. It’s fall would effect us as part of global economic impact. They have never been the good guys, just better than other choices.

          • #123034
            Max
            Keymaster

              I’m at CLC and not in the loop. Rampant is also here as OPFOR. Is it the case that US pulling out means a Turish invasion? Can someone provide the skinny on this?

            • #123041
              SeanT
              Keymaster

                One report from this morning based on Associated Press reporting:
                Turkey’s ongoing military assault in Syria has left more than 100 Kurdish forces dead, a report said Thursday morning, a day after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s troops launched airstrikes and unleashed artillery shelling on Syrian towns and villages the length of its border.
                Information about the rising death toll came as Turkey’s state-run news agency said Turkey-allied Syrian opposition fighters have “cleared of terror” two villages across the border in Syria — meaning there are no more Syrian Kurdish fighters in those villages.

                The Middle East Eye, quoting Erdoğan, reported that 109 Kurdish fighters have been killed so far in Operation Peace Spring.
                Meanwhile, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Turkish commandos entered the village of Beir Asheq, near the town of Tal Abyad on Thursday morning.

                Turkish forces began a ground offensive against Kurdish fighters in northern Syria on Wednesday under the cover of airstrikes and artillery shelling.

                • This reply was modified 9 months ago by SeanT.
                • This reply was modified 9 months ago by SeanT.
              • #123050
                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                Moderator

                  I’m at CLC and not in the loop. Rampant is also here as OPFOR. Is it the case that US pulling out means a Turish invasion? Can someone provide the skinny on this?

                  U.S. Personnel were relocated to other areas within Syria. Supposedly we are talking only in the neighbourhood of 50 people. Not combat significant, but enough to cause significant political problems had Turkey killed Americans.

                  What is unclear is whether U.S. Personnel were moved to clear way for Turkish operations or was Turkey waiting for such a move to launch their operations.

                  There is much propaganda regarding this by anti-Trump force’s here, Kurdish supporters, and Turkey. Not to mention a variety of other sources at home and abroad.

                  Trump has said…

                  The Trump administration has sought to contain the scrutiny over the past days, insisting the president did not give a “greenlight” to Turkey to conduct the operation and that he made clear to Erdoğan that there would be consequences for Turkey if Kurdish forces were harmed.

                  “I will wipe out his economy if that happens,” Trump told reporters Wednesday. “I hope that he will act rationally.”

                  Hence the reason for my original points and questions…

                  I am concerned with some propaganda efforts to make this about Trump vs actual facts.

                  Are we turning our backs on the Kurds?

                  Could we being opening up opportunity to actually deal with Turkey?

                  Turkey hasn’t been a legitimate ally in quite some time and it’s decent into radical Islam is not going to help.

                  So what is really happening?

                  Turkey has created problems for us in many areas.

                  This is speculative, but I suspect we maybe using Turkeys ambitions to provide an excuse to be politically/economically proactive against Turkey.

                  Time will tell.

                • #123057
                  RobRoy
                  Participant

                    Go with what Joe says. Some years ago in the same cluster the Kurds were posting vids of them whacking tanks with optical wire guided missiles and even a chopper with a Manpads of some variety, now they get to do it again.

                    Also all over the twitter lines of conservatives are pics and pronouncements of the antifa – Kurdish groups’ love affair versus the ISIS scum. So in this country we have an ISIS supporter in Omar bringing back Somali fighters who were in Iraq/Syria fighting American antifa fighters learning that craft.

                    Now who says our future won’t be lit?

                  • #123063
                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                    Moderator

                      If my speculation proves true, the Kurds will ultimately be better off in the long run.

                      From a strictly cold hard view, anyone expecting the U.S. of staying true to our word; or even implied word, of backing our commitments is extremely naive given our ever changing political landscape.

                      From Vietnam to our disastrous policies in Central America, we tend to be very shortsighted. Look at how our poor choices backing the Shah in Iran lead to Khomeini and current Iran. Involvement in Saudi leading to 9/11 terrorists. Dabbling in post 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan lead to Bin Laden.

                      How many know that Ho Chi Minh came to Eisenhower to help rid Vietnam of French? Consider how that may have changed our history.

                      Ukraine was promised protection from Russia if they gave up their Soviet era nuclear weapons. How’s that worked out for them?

                      Muammar Gaddafi was promised that by ending his pursuit of WMD’s that we would leave him alone. As bad as Gaddafi was, is Libya better off today?

                      Anyone wonder why it’s so hard to convince “nuts” like Kim Jong-un to give up nukes?

                      So anyone working with us knows we are unreliable!

                      Of course the Kurds lacked options and it was mutually beneficial to aid in our fight against ISIL.

                      Of course much of the issues we have in the Southwest Asia could have been avoided by not invading Iraq or least waiting until done in Afghanistan.

                      Speaking of Afghanistan, attempts to mold the Afghanis into some form of “Democracy” was foolhardy! Perhaps some form of Tribal Republic, but that’s water under the bridge.

                      So we historically are a poor choice to count on and American’s in general are too stupid regarding understanding foreign cultures.

                      Lastly despite my best attempts, there is just too much propaganda circulating to do a quality analysis at this time regarding the Syrian Kurds.

                    • #123070
                      RobRoy
                      Participant

                        Joe gives the idealistic version. I myself will say that the foreign policy/natsec is a racket that now the white Neo-Libs have cynically glommed onto (most of the characters associated with it are white progs, they make me look idealistic). Nation breaking for profit, break a nation, show up to offer aid, strong arm for kickbacks. Without naming anyone I know a person who since the GWOT started has made the HUGE cash basically flapping arms and writing propaganda pieces. Literally went from being a Bushcon to an Obama Neo-Lib without so much as blinking an eyelash and that is where the real money starting flowing.

                        Anyway I expect the Kurds to start putting out some kickin butt videos and hopefully they get a wide distribution, because a good battle vid beats the heck of starving refugee vids anyday.

                      • #123080
                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                        Moderator

                          Hessian check your PM’s and stop trying to keep posting if something doesn’t show up. I can fix it, but not if you keep sending new versions!

                          Joe gives the idealistic version.

                          Actually its called a Professional version, vice a quacks version! ;-)

                        • #123102
                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                          Moderator

                            Hessian has been trying to post this and I can’t fix it, but I was able to grab a copy.

                            LIVESTREAM: Tel Abyad border – tune in
                            http://www.reuters.tv/l/PfIg/2019/10/09/turkey-gears-up-for-military-operation-in-syria

                            Archive/Study/Research/Library
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                            SOUTHFRONT Oct 9

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                            Developments as of Oct 9
                            Turkish artillery and warplanes target Qamishli, Ras al-Ain, Darbasiyah, Kharab Rashak & Jaroudiyah in north and north eastern Syria and SDF bases in Sarekaniye as well as YPG training camp in the village of Hoshan in Ayn Isa, north of Raqqa
                            SDF artillery retaliation shelling hitting several Turkish border towns.
                            Mass displacement of civilians
                            SDF halts its operations against ISIS.
                            US forces received orders from Trump not to move in northern Syria.
                            Heavy smoke reportedly from tires being burned in Tel Abyad and Syrian democratic forces has carried out a number of raids against Turkish positions on the borders with turkey in Dêrik (Al-Malikiya)
                            SAA forces continue daily light shelling of southern Idlib area
                            Kurdish insurgent forces increase intensity of attacks against Turkish positions
                            the SDF wants Damascus to recognize its authority over Manbij, Raqqa and eastern Deir Ezzor
                            Kurdish Regional Government in North Iraq shuts border crossing with Kurdish run areas of North Syria, preventing fleeing Kurdish civilians from entering the region.
                            Egypt calls for Emergency Arab Summit about the Turkish attack and the EU rejects Turkey’s plans for a safe zone

                            Best I can do!

                          • #123211
                            Anonymous
                            Inactive

                              I was late for OPFOR because there was a rally in DC Tuesday afternoon, another one tomorrow. Just got back from the VTC, my nerves have been shot all week, if I came off a bit quiet that’s why.

                              Just got back home, got to get ready for work soon so I’ll try to summarize it as brief as I can.

                              This is literally the nightmare scenario, everyone who has gone over there is in a mix of shock and disgust over this.

                              The FSA militias that the Turks are utilizing for this are overwhelmingly Islamist groups, some are al-Qaeda, some former ISIS who changed flags. Most of the secularists in the FSA got pushed out years ago. Remember that Erdogan’s party AKP started as a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood – he has promoted his brand of Islamism abroad and his neo-Ottoman nationalism fuels a drive to expand Turkey’s influence. One FSA militia cut a Palestinian boy’s head off and putt it on Facebook, another militia fondled a dead YPJ fighter in Afrin and cut off her breasts. When the Americans tried working with Turkey and their FSA in Syria a few years back, they filmed themselves threatening to cut their heads off and telling them to “Get the hell out of our country, we only work with Muslims.”

                              Turkey had an open-border policy with ISIS when they had the border as long as they focused on fighting Kurds, only once the “more” radical faction within ISIS conducted attacks in Turkey did they take any (extremely) limited actions against ISIS.

                              The plan is a 60km deep push across the border, they’ll effectively annex it like they did Afrin. All the signs in Afrin are in Turkish and Arabic, the area is now under Sharia law, kidnappings and shootouts are common, Assyrian and Yezidi graveyards and holy sites have been destroyed and desecrated, and the few remaining Kurds are harassed if they speak their own language.

                              Most of the Kurdish cities and many Christian towns are within the “safe zone”, so they’ll be displaced. The displaced will be replaced with loyal Sunni Arabs – this is an “Arabization” ethnic cleansing campaign. Mainly it’s targeting the Kurds, but local Armenians and Assyrians (descendants of survivors of Ottoman genocides) will also be forced to flee.

                              Under Brett McGurk’s team there was a plan to hack out a deal with Assad – roughly speaking SDF would be transferred to a Home Guard under Assad’s government, while local administration in northeast Syria would be allowed to remain under the Syrian state. US would help cover the cost of reconstruction, our allies would be safe, and we could withdraw our forces. Trump fucked that up when he announced withdrawal last year, the SDF lost a lot of leverage.

                              Trump is a son of a bitch for this, this is unforgivable.

                              Even US forces on the ground are distraught over this, though obviously they can’t speak without anonymity.

                              ‘Some of the Most Noble People I’d Ever Met’

                              Reflecting on our previous conversation about what is evil, yes, these jihadi militias are just as evil as ISIS.

                              If the Turks get carte blanche on this, perhaps they’ll take war to the Greeks over Cyprus next, North Syria is just Erdogan’s Sudetenland.

                            • #123217
                              RobRoy
                              Participant

                                Thanks for the info RR.

                              • #123237
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  Reflecting on our previous conversation about what is evil, yes, these jihadi militias are just as evil as ISIS.

                                  Yea that’s about what I was thinking, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if Erdogan arms the ISIL prisoners that will end up “escaping” or being released by Turkish FSA.

                                  We’ll see what actually happens, but if the Turkish FSA can be documented; preferably with Turkish Army, in such actions this may provide a opportunity to neutralize its NATO status.

                                  Rampantraptor what I would like to hear is your thoughts on Turkish FSA capabilities vs the various Kurdish groups?

                                  In your opinion, how much; if any, are the various Kurdish forces linked together despite borders in the various Kurdish regions?

                                • #123287
                                  Anonymous
                                  Inactive

                                    If my speculation proves true, the Kurds will ultimately be better off in the long run.

                                    Speaking of Afghanistan, attempts to mold the Afghanis into some form of “Democracy” was foolhardy! Perhaps some form of Tribal Republic, but that’s water under the bridge.

                                    The Armenians and Assyrians haven’t been better off since the Ottomans had their way.

                                    The real bitch here is that the Kurds, Assyrians, and Arabs in northeast Syria already had a functioning democratic system before the Americans arrived, all the US did was provide air strikes, there was no need for a US-supplied “government in a box” or shoving Western-style democracy down the throat around an unwilling native population.

                                    Yea that’s about what I was thinking, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if Erdogan arms the ISIL prisoners that will end up “escaping” or being released by Turkish FSA.

                                    We’ll see what actually happens, but if the Turkish FSA can be documented; preferably with Turkish Army, in such actions this may provide a opportunity to neutralize its NATO status.

                                    Rampantraptor what I would like to hear is your thoughts on Turkish FSA capabilities vs the various Kurdish groups?

                                    In your opinion, how much; if any, are the various Kurdish forces linked together despite borders in the various Kurdish regions?

                                    Turks absorbing ISIS fighters into the FSA is a major fear, that’s why SDF haven’t completely abandoned al-Hol. (Al-Hol is where the majority of ISIS detainees are, currently at 70,000, 10,000 are fighters, 2,000 of those foreign fighters, the rest ISIS civilians.) ISIS brides interviewed by the media there have openly stated they would wait for Turkey to invade so they could run for freedom.

                                    Many TFSA (Turkish-backed FSA) elements have various Islamist and al-Qaeda links, I heard a report that I can’t confirm that one of the first groups sent into Serekaniye was founded by a Jahbat al-Nusra (Syrian al-Qaeda) sharia judge. I’ve also heard multiple reports of ISIS commanders switching to TFSA in the past. Also worth noting that the Turks already have multiple outposts in Jahbat al-Nusra territory in Idlib to protect them from regime attacks.

                                    This is old news actually, of course it’s all hush-hush because nobody wants the Turks to abandon NATO, also Erdogan threatens to dump 3 million more Syrian refugees into Europe any time they hint at criticizing him.

                                    TFSA are light infantry like the SDF but they’re not as experienced or well-trained. I’ve heard that one thing the SDF have in their favor right now is that TFSA are having trouble coordinating CAS with the Turkish Air Force, things will get much bloodier once they deploy more Turkish mechanized infantry and tanks with that capability. Jazira and Kobane cantons are flat, flat, flat so easy to take from insurgents if you have air support, same as we did to Daesh. I expect SDF to last longer than people would expect (same as what happened in Kobane in 2014) but it’s still gonna be a bloodbath. I did see a video with them shooting an ATGM at a Turkish tank but I wouldn’t know how many of those they actually have and they really need Stingers or Strelas.

                                    TFSA also lack discipline, they tend to act like mobs. I know especially when I first got back I harped on and on about the need for a developed ideology and it drove y’all nuts but cadres with good ideology maintain good discipline. A militia operating in an ungoverned area without ideology is generally just a well-armed gang. Part of the reason the Islamists wound up dominating the FSA was they had the most consistent ideology and regional support for groups with Islamist ideology.

                                    Also, Turks shelled US SF yesterday in Kobane, hearing mixed reports between it just struck nearby and it hit the base directly. Turks know where they are, they have the intel on US positions, one commentator suggested they wanted to flush out US SF from Kobane so they could begin the siege there in earnest.

                                    In Iraq the primary parties are the Kurdistan Democratic Party under the Barzanis and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan under the Talabanis. (Iraqi Kurdish politics is still largely tribal.) The west of the KRG is KDP, the east is PUK, KDP is conservative and friendly to Turkey, PUK is more liberal and leans towards Iran. The Iraqi Peshmerga (are still mostly split along party lines, there are a few units transferred to the Ministry of Peshmerga (like our DoD) but most are PUK or KDP. They had a brief but bloody civil war in the KRG in the 90s, the lack of military cohesion still hampers effectiveness.

                                    In Turkey the only armed Kurdish group is the Kurdistan Worker’s Party, or PKK, who have been waging a guerrilla war in Turkish Kurdistan since the 1980s, with off and on ceasefires. (The last fell apart in 2015.) It started as a Marxist-Leninist movement, it abandoned that in the early 2000s when their leader Abdullah Ocalan (often nicknamed Apo) embraced the anarchist-influenced communalism of Murray Bookchin after being captured in 1999. The men’s wing is the HPG and the women’s wing is YJA Star, though they’re still usually just referred to as PKK. PKK is a designated foreign terror organization since 1999. There is a legal pro-Kurdish party in the HDP but it’s been repressed under Erdogan (their presidential candidate was jailed), the previous Kurdish parties have been banned as separatist by the Turkish government, the PKK had in the past also been too aggressive in trying to subvert those parties.

                                    The “Apoist” parties across Greater Kurdistan are organized under the Congress of Kurdish Communities or KCK.

                                    The YPG/YPJ are the armed wing of the PYD, a Syrian Apoist party. The “democratic confederalism” of North Syria is directly influenced by Bookchin and Ocalan’s teachings. PYD is a member of KCK but not a designated terror organization, otherwise I’d be in federal prison instead of typing here. From Iraq, PUK is friendly towards PYD while KDP is hostile. There is a Syrian branch of the KDP (KDPS) but it’s largely irrelevant, PYD never let Barzani’s Rojava Peshmerga actually enter Rojava for obvious reasons.

                                    In 2016 the Syrian Democratic Forces were organized as a multiethnic coalition of the YPG/YPJ, the Syriac Miiltary Council, and allied Arab militias, as the war against ISIS brought more non-Kurdish lands into Rojava’s hands, which also led the administration there to change their name to the Democratic Federation of North Syria, since “Rojava” is only the Kurdish name for the region.

                                    In Iran there’s Komala (a socialist party), KDPI (a more left-wing Iranian branch of KDP), and PJAK (under KCK). Komala and KDPI forces are referred to as peshmerga as well, but not PJAK. All have or currently are fighting the Iranian government.

                                    Gotta get sleep now, I’ve been running nonstop since Monday and there’s another demo tomorrow, I’m so damn burnt out right now.

                                  • #123292
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      …was no need for a US-supplied “government in a box” or shoving Western-style democracy down the throat around an unwilling native population.

                                      No doubt, my comment was directed at our stupid policy in Afghanistan, however it is applicable to any area. U.S. Military involvement needs to be kept to a minimum anywhere it’s used unless a clear Declaration of War is declared. Something our spineless politicians have been unable to accept responsibility for even after 9/11.

                                      Because of the NATO political baggage and Trumps commitment to not get entangled in “endless wars” it is doubtful we will respond beyond economic sanctions.

                                      I know there is resistance to Erdogan by a large portion of Turkish populace, but it is unclear if there is sufficient support within military after Erdogan’s previous purges. I still suspect the so called coup was orchestrated by Erdogan to justify said purge.

                                      Economic sanctions could increase pressure on surviving resistance to encourage a real coup. This would be a best case to remove Erdogan.

                                      Limited resupply of military weapons; likely through a cutout, is possible if Turkish sponsored atrocities are well documented.

                                      …haven’t been better off since the Ottomans had their way.

                                      The only way any of these groups is going to have autonomy is if they win it, no one is going to just give it to them. U.S. presence wasn’t going to last, whether it should have been done differently is certainly debatable.

                                      Turkey is a problem for U.S. and NATO, but not a big enough problem for us to justify U.S. Military action. At least without a major overstep by Erdogan.

                                      Something like an attempt or successful seizure of U.S. Forces at Incirlik Air Base.

                                      Trump may be using this to provide Erdogan with enough rope to hang himself, but this is speculative on my part. Erdogan ambitions to use Islamic nuts to solidify his status may just do that.

                                      We’ll have to see what actually happens.

                                    • #123297
                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                      Moderator

                                        …they really need Stingers or Strelas.

                                        In the absence of a organic anti-air capability they need to go after aircraft and pilots on the ground.

                                        Yes it’s easier said than done, but what other options are there?

                                        Difficult, but not impossible.

                                      • #123323
                                        RobRoy
                                        Participant

                                          “American democracy” is this, one of your nervy guys holds up a gay pride flag, a pic of this is put in our legacy media with the usual nice sounding rhetoric, financial aid is appropriated to your group, but if your group does not kick back a percentage then your group is cast off, insert new democratic group here. This is the Democratic party’s operating strategy, everything is a pass thru back to them. And the R party is basically their step and fetch.

                                          Good catch RR on that ideology thing, FreeFor has one “rugged individualism” which basically devolves to sitting behind keyboard talking bout “gunz.”

                                        • #123365
                                          Max
                                          Keymaster
                                          • #123366
                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                            Moderator

                                              Alternative view

                                              A fair agument, particularly for those without emotional ties to the Kurds such as our troops who have fought along side the Kurds.

                                              I would add that we are only one of two elections; with poor results, away from possible physical conflict right here at home.

                                            • #123393
                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                              Moderator

                                                Another aspect to this is the disconnect between doing what is in our national interest and doing the “right” thing.

                                                Anyone familiar with the various minorities affected by this situation and it’s historical perspective has to least sympathize with their situation.

                                                Imagine how difficult it is for those U.S. Military personnel to follow the orders to just pullout.

                                                Then we have the various people who have gone there to support the Kurds and the bonds that were made.

                                                Then there is the bigger picture of how can civilized people regularly turn our backs on genocidal attacks on any people?

                                                We regularly speak of “never again” when discussing such atrocities, even while they are being committed “yet again!”

                                                Imagine what it will be like when/if “never again” is happening here!

                                                Something to consider not just when politicians are proposing gun control, but anyone who is against rolling back any infringements on all of our Rights!

                                              • #123413
                                                Anonymous
                                                Inactive

                                                  Alternative view:

                                                  https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/missing_the_bigger_picture_in_kurdish_syria.html#ixzz629g3Mdbb

                                                  I’m sure Max is offering this to keep the debate forward, but couple of problems with this article:

                                                  The Syrian Kurds have never advocated for independence. The Syrian Kurds and their allies wanted local governance (federalism, rather than a unitary state) so they could maintain their own languages (Kurdish, Assyrian, Armenian, etc.) and culture in areas where they live. (Under Assad and Turkey, for instance, Kurdish language was/is banned.) The Iraqi Kurds have pushed for independence, and were crushed by Baghdad in Kirkuk as a result. The PKK itself in Turkey also abandoned ethnic nationalism with the shift from Marxism-Leninism to democratic confederalism, they too seek cultural autonomy and rights within Turkey. (In summary: “If we had a Kurdish nation-state, who says we wouldn’t oppress our own minorities?”) The writer is speaking from a lack of regional knowledge regarding the various political groups (not “tribes”) in the region.

                                                  Brett McGurk and his team had a well-thought out plan to negotiate with Assad, bring SDF under the command of the Syrian government, and secure the safety of SDF and the existence of their local governments in exchange for sanctions relief and reconstruction aid for northern Syria, then US troops could pull out entirely. The SDF was and has continued advocating the same position as well, they weren’t so naive as to expect the US to stay there forever. That was very much damaged and the SDF lost a lot of leverage when Trump announced withdrawal last year, things have been in a limbo with much less progress since then.

                                                  I’m a libertarian too, I understand the isolationist streak a lot of Americans have, but there’s a way to draw down our presence overseas that protects our interests and allies, and a way that leaves our allies vulnerable to slaughter and ruins our credibility, Trump chose the latter.

                                                  There is an element of racism to suggest that all these conflicts overseas are “tribal” in nature. The current Turkish-Kurdish conflict really only goes back to the 1980s, between that and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire state violence against the Kurds was more sporadic. World War II wasn’t just a conflict between the ethnic Deutsche and the ethnic Ashkenaz in the Central Europe region.

                                                  And again, the writer assumes that the people there are intrinsically anti-democratic, whereas the people we were assisting already had established a heavily-decentralized system of local democracy that small-government folks here would drool over, unlike Iraq and Afghanistan we didn’t have to tell them how to organize a government or hold elections.

                                                  https://www.thenation.com/article/trump-syria-kurds/

                                                  https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-amid-syria-s-darkness-a-democratic-egalitarian-and-feminist-society-emerges-1.7339983

                                                  Yes, it’s dabbles into “lefty” shit but the right-wing in the Middle East wants to wage jihad for the sake of Allah so pick your poison. North Syria has small government, relatively free markets (most businesses are run by independent entrepreneurs, the cooperatives that do exist are directly owned by the employees who work them, not any “socialist state”), as we speak regular civilians are bearing their own arms to defend themselves from the Turks.

                                                  Citing half-century old British movies, with all their biases, to make a point about tribalism honestly just makes the writer sound silly. The SDF actually set up reconciliation councils to settle existing tribal disputes with some success.

                                                  As far as the current sitaution, I heard earlier that SDF had repelled the FSA in Serekaniye. Also, Commander Mazloum has been considering expelling US forces in exchange for a Russian no-fly zone. Question is what the Russians would want them to give up in response, the Assad regime has been pushing an unconditional surrender line so far.

                                                  Here’s a raw transcript of Mazloum’s communications with US officials.

                                                  https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/12/politics/us-syria-meeting-doc/index.html

                                                  Anyway I expect the Kurds to start putting out some kickin butt videos and hopefully they get a wide distribution, because a good battle vid beats the heck of starving refugee vids anyday.

                                                  Not combat footage but still pretty badass anyway:

                                                • #123443
                                                  Max
                                                  Keymaster

                                                    Given that I thought we should never have been in Syria in the first place. Syria is a sovereign nation which we invaded simply due to the usual reasons that it is allied against Saudi etc. Syria did not commit those gas warcrimes that we false flagged. It’s all bullshit. We were at oe point supporting Islamic terrorist militias in order to destabilize Assad.

                                                    I have worked with the Kurds and feel for them, but we were not there for the Kurds. We were there for our own usual reaons.

                                                    Turkey is part os NATO and unless something is done on a larger scale about that, wasting our time. Are we spilling blood and treasure to fight Turkey now?

                                                    Tell you what, I’ll fight for the kurds. If they can pay a fair mercenary marlet rate and allow autonomous training / commamd of a foreign legion.

                                                  • #123460
                                                    Anonymous
                                                    Inactive

                                                      We were at oe point supporting Islamic terrorist militias in order to destabilize Assad.

                                                      I have worked with the Kurds and feel for them, but we were not there for the Kurds. We were there for our own usual reaons.

                                                      Those Islamic terrorist militias that the CIA were supporting are the guys the Turks are backing right now. Typical American chaos, the CIA was backing Turkish-backed FSA while the Pentagon was backing SDF. FSA wanted to fight Assad and were unwilling to fight jihadists, the YPG were the only ones willing to work with us and focus on the Islamic State because they never had an open blood vendetta against Assad to begin with. Assad himself allowed ISIS and al-Nusra to spread as he focused on eliminating the moderates in the FSA so he could make an argument that it was him or the jihadists in Syria, they were the last groups the regime sought to fight.

                                                      Our guys had awkward looks and hand waves back and forth between the Assad guys on the regime side of the streets when we visited Hasakeh, there is an open neutral zone in the shopping district of Qamishli with regime shehid posters and statues of Assad, we didn’t really bother each other. The worry for SDF has always been Turkey. Okay, we achieved our objectives in terms of destroying the “territorial caliphate”, working out a deal between SDF and Assad so we could bring US forces home isn’t as far-fetched as it might seem, that was always the plan.

                                                      Right now the best that can happen is that the US establishes a no-fly zone or they get the fuck out of the way and the Russians go in. We should know one way or the other where this is going by the end of the week. I don’t care who does the job, I just want my friends over there to be safe so I don’t see any more of them on yellow posters. Commander Mazloum is a smart guy, I’m just hoping he makes the right call and SDF/SDC doesn’t get screwed in the process.

                                                      I know of at least one NGO that is going in outside of PYD itself but it’s unpaid, probably won’t go because I’ve had two other volunteers tell me the group is sketchy and if the Russians go in I imagine it’ll be shitcanned for legal reasons.

                                                      My unit was probably the closest to a foreign legion the YPG had, most of our squad leaders and instructors during my time there were all former officers/NCOs in their home countries so we trained in Western tactics but we were paid local rates.

                                                      If Turkey thinks it can go willy-nilly and annex portions of other countries, what’s next? Northern Iraq? A war with the Greeks over Cyprus? Should we even have a country like Turkey in NATO?

                                                    • #123462
                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                      Moderator

                                                        Those Islamic terrorist militias that the CIA were supporting are the guys the Turks are backing right now.

                                                        As I pointed out earlier, this is our historical trend of poor choices. However I believe the BHO administration or elements within deliberately chose to support those militias knowing the consequences.

                                                        Should we even have a country like Turkey in NATO?

                                                        In my opinion no!

                                                        That’s why I speculate our current choices are about addressing this.

                                                        As you state we will know more soon.

                                                      • #123485
                                                        Anonymous
                                                        Inactive

                                                          Nearly 800 ISIS detainees escaped custody in Ain Issa earlier today, heard unconfirmed reports that ISIS WhatsApp networks are arranging for their families to have smugglers take them back across the Turkish border.

                                                          A deal has been made, the Americans are running for the exits, Assad is moving in. Regime troops in Manbij and Kobane within the next 48 hours. Wondering if the Russians will close the airspace, Syrian Air Force wouldn’t have the capability to do it themselves.

                                                          Apparently US SF were “danger close” with TFSA and at risk of getting cut off on the ground in Kobane.

                                                          https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/u-s-forces-set-to-withdraw-from-northern-syria-amid-alleged-turkish-atrocities-71182405811?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma

                                                        • #123486
                                                          Anonymous
                                                          Inactive

                                                            From Commander Mazloum, before the regime deal announcement:

                                                            If We Have to Choose Between Compromise and Genocide, We Will Choose Our People

                                                          • #123502
                                                            fabio
                                                            Participant

                                                              It was a pleasure meeting raptor last week at the VTC. Much of what was explained is over my head. I will make an effort to read up on these events to better understand what raptor sad.

                                                            • #123519
                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                              Moderator

                                                                Rampantraptor has quality information regarding the Kurdish point of view and above average knowledge of the regional affairs.

                                                                Just remember there is more going on than meets the eye. Without that information it is difficult to truly understand the complete picture.

                                                                Whether that picture is good or bad is just as much a point of view as anything else at this point. This means it could be sometime before an accurate assessment can be determined by us on the outside.

                                                                Without sources on the ground it is very difficult to sift through the propaganda.

                                                                Can’t trust anything out of Turkey, Assad’s government, or the Russians.

                                                                The Kurdish reports are at least biased (understandably given the threat).

                                                                The majority of U.S. News media wants to spin everything to make Trump look bad.

                                                                Not that we could have access, but our own Intelligence agencies have so many Socialist supporters willing to corrupt information to the Left’s benefit that it is suspect.

                                                                Doesn’t leave us with much to form opinions on! :wacko:

                                                              • #123522
                                                                Anonymous
                                                                Inactive

                                                                  I’m not going to lie and say I’m an unbiased observer, I do try to avoid clearly biased sources like opinion pieces and whatnot though.

                                                                  Still trying to figure out the details of the SDF-Assad agreement, so far going from raw sources it appears SDF won’t be disbanded but will form a united force with SAA against FSA/Turkey, Syrian Democratic Council will still govern northern Syria for now. As I type this it’s still night over there so no more news for a few more hours. I have heard some kind of reconciliation is in the cards, Assad forces have paroled some former FSA units that surrendered and joined the fight on their side. Still not sure how much of this is a surrender or a negotiated settlement but SDF don’t have any leverage at this point, except perhaps to make the Russians look like fair peace brokers and humiliate the Americans.

                                                                  Hope none of the SDF or their supporters are facing exile or persecution by Assad, also hoping they’re permitted to keep at least some of the liberties and local democratic institutions that they established.

                                                                  Perhaps we can pressure lawmakers to pass sanctions relief and reconstruction aid for Syria if they take it easy on SDF.

                                                                  Iran now has a full corridor to the Mediterranean, good thing Trump just transferred 2000 soldiers to Saudi to be in harm’s way when Iran and Saudi get to scrapping. There will also be a lot of armed, experienced, and angry Syrian Kurdish fighters with nowhere to go but Afrin, and after that to liberate their cousins in Turkey (Syria and Turkey have disputes going back to the Turkish seizure of Antioch), I’m not sure Erdogan thought this well out on his end.

                                                                  God this week has been terrible.

                                                                • #123527
                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                  Moderator

                                                                    I’m not going to lie…

                                                                    Good! ;-)

                                                                    Wasn’t directed at you.

                                                                    I “hope” they they’ve spent some time over the past few years cacheing party favors for a rainy day!

                                                                    A plan “C.”

                                                                    Perhaps we can pressure lawmakers to pass sanctions relief and reconstruction aid for Syria if they take it easy on SDF.

                                                                    Wouldn’t count on it, if it’s not about talk of impeachment, it’s not on the table in the House.

                                                                    Syria and Turkey have disputes going back to the Turkish seizure of Antioch

                                                                    That kind of thing is in part why we are pulling out.

                                                                  • #123532
                                                                    Max
                                                                    Keymaster

                                                                      Have we considered that we have the cart before the horse. That we pulled out due to the planned Turkish invasion, in order to be not caught up in what was coming anyway? Thus we did not give the Turks pernission, because they were coming anyway. Next point would be to appeal to the UN. Address Turley’s place in NATO etc….

                                                                    • #123536
                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                      Moderator

                                                                        Thus we did not give the Turks pernission, because they were coming anyway.

                                                                        This is certainly part of the propaganda from a variety of sources.

                                                                        Erdogan doesnt strike me as an ask for permission type, though he is evil (IMHO),but certainly not stupid. Warning us of his planned actions was necessary to avoid a confrontation with us that he can’t win. He also knows we don’t want more wars to fight. This is plausible speculation.

                                                                        Erdogan also has plausible cover with the terror angle. We know it’s not legitimate, but plausible enough for governments that don’t really give a damn. That would be the majority of the U.N. whose members include some of the biggest dirtbags in the world.

                                                                        It will be interesting to see Russia’s choices regarding this.

                                                                      • #123545
                                                                        Anonymous
                                                                        Inactive

                                                                          Have we considered that we have the cart before the horse. That we pulled out due to the planned Turkish invasion, in order to be not caught up in what was coming anyway? Thus we did not give the Turks pernission, because they were coming anyway. Next point would be to appeal to the UN. Address Turley’s place in NATO etc….

                                                                          The Kurds themselves expected the Turks to cause trouble long-term, the fucked part of it is that there had recently been a security agreement between Turkey, SDF, and the US. The SDF removed experienced YPG/YPJ units from the border and replaced them with local military councils, removed bunkers and defensive fortifications, and permitted joint US-Turkish patrols on the border lands themselves. The US in turn was expected to keep up the pressure and keep the Turks out.

                                                                          As you can guess this created the perfect conditions to give Turkey and FSA an advantage during the invasion, and experienced units had to scramble to reach the border. During the invasion it leaked out that the US had also been sharing intelligence on SDF with Turkey.

                                                                          If the Americans were planning to vacate the area they should have informed SDF beforehand so they could work out a deal with Assad before they were already desperate and besieged by Turks. Most administration folks didn’t know, US commanders didn’t know, etc. Prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance. Any rebel group we might need to rely on in the future will be able to look up YouTube and see what a huge mess Americans made for SDF.

                                                                          Read Mazloum Abdi’s statement that I posted earlier, he explains the problems with the US withdrawal in clear, pragmatic and fair terms.

                                                                          There was a UN motion to condemn Turkish actions in the Security Council, it was blocked by Russia, China…and the US.

                                                                          I wouldn’t expect Turkey out of NATO now, with the Syrian Kurds pushed into Russia’s orbit there’s incentive to bring Turkey back in the NATO fold. Just three weeks ago Lindsey Graham was suggesting bringing the Turks back onboard for the F-35 program. With the Russians enforcing a no-fly zone in northern Syria and conditions now set for FSA and other Turkish-protected Islamist forces throughout Syria to face a joint SAA-SDF onslaught Turkey’s flirtation with Russia might be over. Don’t worry, your tax dollars will still support Islamists overseas.

                                                                          Saw a Tweet from a Vice foreign correspondent that Russia can now claim they defended innocent civilians from a NATO-armed jihadist army and they’d be right. As far as international relations go Russia is ascendant, we’re in rapid decline.

                                                                          Erdogan also has plausible cover with the terror angle. We know it’s not legitimate, but plausible enough for governments that don’t really give a damn. That would be the majority of the U.N. whose members include some of the biggest dirtbags in the world.

                                                                          It will be interesting to see Russia’s choices regarding this.

                                                                          Turkey does have a security risk from the PKK, though their continued existence is still largely a product of Turkey’s inability to work out peace with its own Kurds. They’re still fucked up from 2015 clashes though so I’m not sure how much manpower (and girlpower, because feminism) they’d actually have to start a new campaign.

                                                                          Trump and his people are already repeating Turkish lines about evil PKK terrorists to support non-intervention in the crisis, he also tweeted about the Iraqi attack on Kirkuk on 2017, claiming it was Iraqis attacking Syrian Kurds when it was actually the Peshmerga since Kirkuk is in Iraq. (Of course he couldn’t recall the name of the city itself either.) Trump hasn’t got a clue what he’s talking about, but it doesn’t matter because many of his supporters don’t either.

                                                                          He’s a foreign policy dunce, which wouldn’t be terrible if he actually listened to his advisers. It’s not bad to admit you don’t know about something, it’s bad when you don’t take advice from those who do. :wacko:

                                                                        • #123551
                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                          Moderator

                                                                            If the Americans were planning to vacate the area they should have informed SDF beforehand…

                                                                            This assumes they were planning, vice reacting.

                                                                            During the invasion it leaked out that the US had also been sharing intelligence on SDF with Turkey.

                                                                            Possible, but based on what? Also given the anti-Trump elements within Intelligence. Was it given to sacrifice SDF to make Trump look bad?

                                                                            Turkey does have a security risk from the PKK…

                                                                            Not enough to justify invading Syria IMHO.

                                                                            …if he actually listened to his advisers.

                                                                            Then we would be fighting several more conflicts before we even got to this!

                                                                            Of course we don’t know who advised him on this. This could be the result of advisors.

                                                                            The real point here is you or I don’t know what is going on to make most of the assumptions about Trumps reasoning or competency you have made.

                                                                            You could be correct or totally wrong. Conversely right on some but wrong in others.

                                                                            This is more complicated than that and far more intrigue than most will ever know.

                                                                            Now feel free to vent your frustrations if it helps, but consider alternatives.

                                                                            Also consider the degree some will go to bring Trump down. Is it possible this is one of those attacks.

                                                                            None of this is me saying one way or another, but demonstrating possibilities.

                                                                            Also excuse the somewhat jumbled nature of this post.

                                                                          • #123718
                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                            Moderator

                                                                              Donald Trump Details Sanctions on Turkey in Response to Attacking Kurds

                                                                              Excerpt:

                                                                              In a statement, Trump said that he would increase steel tariffs to 50 percent and threatened to end negotiations for a $100 billion trade deal with Turkey if they did not back down.

                                                                              “The Order will authorize a broad range of consequences, including financial sanctions, the blocking of property, and barring entry into the United States,” he warned.

                                                                              The president said that his order could be used to weigh additional economic sanctions if Turkey was found to commit serious human rights abuses or other violence in Syria.

                                                                              Trump said that he was “perfectly clear” with President Erdogan that he did not approve of the military offensive against the Kurds in Syria.

                                                                            • #123757
                                                                              RobRoy
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Make Europe pay with those sanctions those two faced aholes because I assume all the Turkish elite run their loot thru banks there. I pretty much believe the kick back brokers of the deep state presented Trump with the usual hostage situation and he said fuck it I’m not your whore.

                                                                                Any libcontard clown who wants to cry poor Kurds when they don’t even know a curd from a Kurd should be told that America should arm the Kurds with AR-15s preferably Colt manufactured, good for the UAW and good for America.

                                                                              • #123825
                                                                                Anonymous
                                                                                Inactive

                                                                                  Wagner Group is taking former US based inside Manbij, Russian army is trying to prevent any clashes between Turks and Syrians in Manbij.

                                                                                  Video of Russians in the base in the link:
                                                                                  https://www.businessinsider.com/1000-us-troops-chaotic-demoralizing-retreat-syria-2019-10?r=US&IR=T

                                                                                  Twitter so unverified but apparently the commander of Tiger Forces is in Ayn Issa. (Tiger Forces is an elite SAA regiment.) Notable because during the Turkish conquest of Afrin the regime only sent National Defense Forces militia to support SDF.

                                                                                  SDF dug and utilized a tunnel network to repel FSA in Serêkanîye/Ras al-Ayn. This is old ISIS tactics, nice to see that they finally took note because they didn’t before the Afrin invasion.

                                                                                  Kurdish Fighters Mount Counterattack Using Network of Tunnels

                                                                                • #123828
                                                                                  Anonymous
                                                                                  Inactive

                                                                                    Make Europe pay with those sanctions those two faced aholes because I assume all the Turkish elite run their loot thru banks there. I pretty much believe the kick back brokers of the deep state presented Trump with the usual hostage situation and he said fuck it I’m not your whore.

                                                                                    Any libcontard clown who wants to cry poor Kurds when they don’t even know a curd from a Kurd should be told that America should arm the Kurds with AR-15s preferably Colt manufactured, good for the UAW and good for America.

                                                                                    Europe is scared of Erdogan because he threatens to dump three million more Syriam refugees in the EU whenever they hint towards criticizing him.

                                                                                    Honestly the Rojava lobby is an awkward mix of leftists (mostly anarchists, the tankies are mostly victim-blaming the Kurds for siding with evil imperialist America) and neocon defense hawks who didn’t want to give Assad and Iran an easy win in Syria.

                                                                                    Liberal politicians have mostly ignored the issue up until this point, because now it’s Trump’s call and everybody but Trump’s base is angry about it. Ex:
                                                                                    This whole time Bernie Sanders said nothing in support of a socialist-led revolution in Syria until it became about Trump.

                                                                                    FYI we were getting HK M-16s so they weren’t too bad.

                                                                                  • #123833
                                                                                    Anonymous
                                                                                    Inactive

                                                                                      Apparently there’s low-level discussion over removing US nukes from Incirlik.

                                                                                      https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/us-bombs-at-turkish-airbase-complicate-rift-over-syria-invasion

                                                                                      Unless it happens soon I wouldn’t expect it to go through, there’s still too much money tied to Turkey once this boils over and the US is handing the Kurdish question to the Russians. Worth noting though.

                                                                                    • #123834
                                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                        This whole time Bernie Sanders said nothing in support of a socialist-led revolution in Syria until it became about Trump.

                                                                                        This is all about using it to attack Trump or it would be a footnote on late night news.

                                                                                        If we had stayed it would be about Trump getting involved where we shouldnt.

                                                                                        If we got tough with Turkey it would be about Trump starting WWIII and attacking a long time NATO ally!
                                                                                        :unsure:

                                                                                        Thanks for the update.

                                                                                      • #123844
                                                                                        hellokitty
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          The reason why Turkey is in NATO is due to its strategic location. NATO effort to surround the USSR and Warsaw Pact. Is Turkey needed strategically in NATO? Is it key to limiting Russia today?

                                                                                          I am not defending Turkey. Just looking at Turkey’s current strategic value.

                                                                                          HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
                                                                                          HEAT 2 (CP) X1
                                                                                          FOF X3
                                                                                          OPFOR X2
                                                                                          CLC X2
                                                                                          RIFLEMAN

                                                                                        • #123847
                                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                          Moderator

                                                                                            Just looking at Turkey’s current strategic value.

                                                                                            Geographically it certainly has some strategic value, though somewhat diminished than when the Cold War was heated.

                                                                                            IMHO it’s current dabbling by Erdogan into alignment with Islamic extremists has tipped the scales against continued U.S. involvement.

                                                                                            Consider that while I am not alone in this opinion, there are many that disagree.

                                                                                          • #123921
                                                                                            Max
                                                                                            Keymaster
                                                                                            • #123924
                                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                              • #124100
                                                                                                Anonymous
                                                                                                Inactive

                                                                                                  So Trump is officially endorsing Turkey’s ethnic cleansing campaign. The Kurds are no longer an American concern so now the administration wants to quickly renormalize relations with Turkey; therefore give SDF terms they can’t accept – destroying their bunkers, abandoning their (home) towns, and turning in their weapons – and blame them when this halt in operations turns back to fighting.

                                                                                                  https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/pence-set-make-ceasefire-case-erdogan-after-release-tough-guy-n1067976

                                                                                                  Van Hollen and Graham are both pressing forward with sanctions regardless.

                                                                                                  Heard from friends that Serêkaniyê hospital got bombed last night, hoping nobody I knew there got killed. Also hearing unconfirmed reports of the use of white phosphorous.

                                                                                                  I still don’t see the 4D chess here.

                                                                                                  Trump has been parroting Turkish lines regarding the Kurds for the past three days now. Might have to miss the boogaloo stateside if I have to claim asylum overseas, I’m not kidding.

                                                                                                • #124116
                                                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                  Moderator

                                                                                                    Rampantraptor this isn’t a final deal!

                                                                                                    This is a preliminary deal to cease hostilities until a permanent solution is agreed upon.

                                                                                                    I read an article that Commander Mazloum has agreed to this temporary cease-fire and seemed to be wanting a smaller so called safe zone.

                                                                                                    Might have to miss the boogaloo stateside if I have to claim asylum overseas, I’m not kidding.

                                                                                                    We all have to choose our own path and what we are willing to stand for. If you decide to go this route I wish you luck in your endevours.

                                                                                                    I recommend seeing what actually happens with these negotiations before making such a decision. So your choice is based facts vice emotions.

                                                                                                  • #124517
                                                                                                    RobRoy
                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                      Some D-party clowns are headed over there this week or so I hear. Amount to nothing as all the social media razzing of Trump amounts to. Because have any of these worthies talked about arming the Kurds? Not that I have read, just that America’s military is to be held hostage between two warring camps at the mercy of lunatics.

                                                                                                      Myself I hope the lunatics from the D-party go off script due to jet lag, drunkenness and or drug abuse and so irritate the Turks into a fury. But I doubt it it is all astroturf, just a joke since it is my belief that 95% of the people who vote D would send the Kurds to death camps before taking a one dollar cut of the tax loot they get.

                                                                                                    • #124758
                                                                                                      Abacus
                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                        Reflecting on our previous conversation about what is evil, yes, these jihadi militias are just as evil as ISIS.

                                                                                                        I used to get multiple daily reports solely dedicated to the awful stuff that Da’esh as well as those militias were up to in Syria and Iraq. The one that stuck with me was about some group burning an entire family alive in a Geo Metro at an impromptu check point. The family was probably trying to flee the city when they ran afoul of those evil bastards. I never did figure out if those monsters were supposed to be the “good guys” or not. Meditating on that kind of evil probably isn’t good for you.

                                                                                                      • #124761
                                                                                                        Abacus
                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                          The idealist in me wishes we would just throw in with the Kurds. Were I king, I would formally recognize Kudristan, build and airfield in Kirkuk to replace Incerlik, and tell the Turks to pound sand. By the time I was done burning bridges, I would probably put up an Armenian Genocide memorial across the street from the Turkish embassy.

                                                                                                          But, I am not a king. As a much wiser career strategist pointed out to me, geography is a cruel mistress. Istanbul is still just as geographically and therefore militarily important as it was back when it was Constantinople.

                                                                                                          It will continue to suck to be the Kurds as long as Turkey controls Bosporus.

                                                                                                        • #124810
                                                                                                          Anonymous
                                                                                                          Inactive

                                                                                                            Tried to post some updates like four days ago but the post got lost, seems it’s hard to make this forum work over mobile.

                                                                                                            Monday we learned that a very good German friend of mine from my unit whom I served in Raqqa with, Andok, was killed in a Turkish airstrike defending Serekaniye. So I haven’t had much appetite for social media the last few days, still feeling kind of numb, haven’t even looked through my own war photos yet for a good memorial post on IG/FB.

                                                                                                            Serekaniye is in the hands of the jihadis, SDF and civilians fled, FSA are currently looting the homes and shops.

                                                                                                            Yet more atrocities from Turkish-backed FSA. These guys really seem to enjoy desecrating YPJ bodies.

                                                                                                            About a week ago the Turkish foreign minister posted a photo of a Greater Turkey including northern Iraq, northern Syria, most of Armenia, all of Cyprus, and part of Greece. The original Facebook post got taken down once it went viral, I usually wouldn’t want to use CBN as a source but it was either this or Greek news.

                                                                                                            https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/october/pence-pompeo-meet-with-erdogan-turkish-defense-min-posts-map-of-turkey-taking-land-from-neighbors

                                                                                                            The Turkey-Russia deal partially reimplements the “security mechanism” that the Americans had with Turkey before the Turkish invasion. It also requests the removal of all Kurdish units 30 km from the border, not sure if that only applies to YPG/YPJ or to the local military councils SDF was setting up before as well. Not sure if this permits the continued existence of the political system in the border either. Trump is lifting sanctions against Turkey, claiming the ceasefire will be permanent. Nobody on the ground expects it to be permanent.

                                                                                                            Trump is going on about “securing the oil” in some bad parody of US foreign policy. Apparently there are some administration officials who want to maintain a force in Northern Syria to hold on to the Omar oil fields to “protect them from ISIS”, but really it’s about trying to deny it from Assad and the Iranians. I think everyone here should be able to appreciate how ridiculous keeping a contingent of 200 Americans to occupy oil fields in a hostile country sounds.

                                                                                                            Seems the Kurdish public is finally growing tired of the Americans, troops traversing through Qamishli were pelted with rotten fruit on the way out. Also happened later in Erbil, which is notable because it’s from KDP territory, which is less YPG friendly than PUK areas.

                                                                                                            Meanwhile a friend of mine from Derbasiye is preparing for the next Turkish offensive since his ancestral hometown is next, he has a public Instagram too:
                                                                                                            https://www.instagram.com/tactikurd/

                                                                                                          • #124813
                                                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                            Moderator

                                                                                                              Turkish vision…

                                                                                                            • #124823
                                                                                                              Anonymous
                                                                                                              Inactive

                                                                                                                Oh nice, Joe uploaded the image directly.

                                                                                                                PKK released a statement refuting Trump’s claim that the PKK is worse than ISIS. Usually this stuff only pops up on ANF, surprised The Hill picked it up.
                                                                                                                https://thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/466537-pkk-pens-open-letter-in-english-to-american

                                                                                                                Meanwhile in the ISIS camps:
                                                                                                                https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/ad338a12-0b26-4055-90f2-b9926f24c778?fbclid=IwAR0OUwulAJmSA23mHtuGOJS9qztqKcKVH6SpQjDn6ZY90za3VND12RoqgII
                                                                                                                Already heard that ISIS wives freed in Ayn Issa and elsewhere by the border were being reunited with their loved ones in Turkey, good luck EU.

                                                                                                                Quick note about Bashuri (southern Kurdish) news sites, Kurdistan24 and Rudaw are both owned by the Barzanis, but Kurdistan24 doesn’t report from Turkey so they can criticize Turkey, meanwhile Rudaw never criticizes the Barzanis, that’s my understanding iirciirc.

                                                                                                                Some insight into the general meltdown in the State Department over Syria policy:

                                                                                                                https://nationalinterest.org/blog/middle-east-watch/exclusive-inside-state-departments-meltdown-kurds-90241?fbclid=IwAR2cv8g3P-7bjq9dJfRRgd68SYO_FJBBYZ4qUJfXDGCN-cp-K40Wjwxy7Yo

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