It Seems We Have A Situation Brewing Here….

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    • #67583
      JustARandomGuy
      Participant

        Some folks calling themselves “militia” have apparently taken over a wildlife center in OR, and seem to be poking a bear with a sharp stick… :wacko:

        http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html

        Coverage on Sipsey St. :
        http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/perfect-timing-for-regime-federal.html?m=1
        http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/3-of-oregon-official-press-release.html
        http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2016/01/live-feed-from-oregon.html

        Apparently it’s hit CNenema too, so you can expect to hear the “racist right wing anti-gov. militia” line a lot over the next month.

        I have my own opinion on this.

        Your thoughts?

      • #67584
        va181
        Participant

          Was just coming to report on this very matter.

          “Getting intel from some folks in Oregon. More Feds (FBI) and SWAT mobilizing. Below are several links to get you up to speed on the developments in Harney County, OR. This will affect us all. This is the most unfortunate timing also, with Obama meeting Loretta Lynch this week to discuss ‘curbing gun violence’, exactly when they’re looking for another bogeyman to take the public’s eyes and fears off of the Islamic threat. Additionally there is one veteran with PTSD who is among the group occupying the facility, who’s accountability buddy said on social media that the veteran wants to go out (suicide) by government. So, that helps the ‘returning-veteran-danger’ narrative for this administration, and a real-world example of why veterans (especially with PTSD) shouldn’t have scary black guns.” -JJS

          RT News Video

          OregonLive News Article

          Idaho III% FB Page denouncing the takeover:

        • #67585

          This will not get anyone on our side, and will only further alienate the patriot movement from most citizens. Their demand to return public land to ranchers, miners, farmers is absurd. In my AO 90% of people polled are pro public land being protected from commercial use. I have a beautiful 12,000ft mountain in my backyard, and I sure as hell would be pissed if an armed militia occupied it and demanded that it be given to commercial interests. How are they “fighting for the people” when most people would prefer that the land be protected? I think this is retarded hill to die on. I understand an unarmed protest was in order in defense of the Hammonds double jeopardy situation but using armed force to demand the destruction of a wildlife refuge? There are much better hills to die on that would have given the patriot movement more credibility, support, and moral high ground. Why are we letting special interests groups such as ranchers, miners and energy developers hijack this movement so they can use it to destroy our public land for profit?

        • #67586
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            …defending a dude who set fire to 130 acres of it?

            It was my understanding the two going back to jail wanted nothing to do with this.

            I think the Bundy wannabe’s are trying to provoke a situation without much in the way of justification. It wouldn’t surprise me if this is being pushed by informant/agitators/agents. Obviously the timing is particularly convenient for bho agenda.

            This is also an example of why I am not much of a fan of outsiders getting involved in these type of situations.

            We’ll just have to wait and see what transpires and how out of hand it possibly gets.

            Regardless of what happens, I don’t see much potential compliance with any half-baked attempts to infringe upon our Rights.

            Why are we letting special interests groups such as ranchers, miners and energy developers hijack this movement so they can use it to destroy our public land for profit?

            I think you are overstating these fools influence on any so called “movement.” Sure it could easily play into government agenda, but ultimately it doesn’t matter what justification is used (media and government will find something), most will not comply.

          • #67588
            HiDesertRat
            Participant

              I fear this will not end well. Perhaps they can be persuaded to leave peacefully by someone or group they respect. What I truly find perplexing is the Hammonds had been arrested, convicted at trial, sentenced, and then served said sentence, yet now there is ‘bonus’ time. It seems to violate the double jeopardy clause of the Constitutional 5th amendment. Clearly there is an agenda in progress by TPTB. Would be nice to see an organization such as The Rutherford Institute headed by John Whitehead take up the cause of liberty and intervene on their behalf. They helped to free Brandon Laub, a former Marine, involuntary committed to a psychiatric hospital because of comments he made, as they (federal nannies) violated his 1st amendment rights of free speech as argued successfully by Whitehead.

              The state of our government is sickening.

            • #67589
              ragnarok
              Participant

                @TheMountainsWillEndure:

                Holy sh..t! I’m stunned how you simplified the ongoing situation in Oregon.
                Here is some background info and history:
                https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/723

                JeffSags wrote:
                “And remember there will never be a perfect “hill to die on.” Every cause will have question marks. Everyone involved will be slandered and defamed.”

                Exactly!
                Is our red line as fluid as John Kerry’s? :negative: If yes then I have no hope for our ideals :-(

              • #67590
                HiDesertRat
                Participant

                  maybe they can avail themselves of a short trip to san francisco, not too far south, a ‘sanctuary city’ and hope the boneless cunts there will shelter them. if it works for those that should not be here, perhaps it will work for real citizens also… well, been absorbing tequila and it is sunday, a holy day after all. praying to one god or the other might help. is it not what miracles are made of?

                • #67591
                  ragnarok
                  Participant
                  • #67592
                    winston
                    Participant
                    • #67593
                      Lloyd
                      Participant

                        Do not forget that the Feds have had “agent provacateurs” deeply embedded in the “patriot” movement since the Slick Willy days. An old retired Marine Gunny friend of mine once told me: “You can always tell which one works for the gummint, ’cause he’s the one that’s trying to talk everybody into doing something illegal.”

                        From what I know about this story, I’d bet my last paycheck that at least one of these “patriots” is on the government’s payroll.

                        MVT Texas 2015-2020
                        Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                      • #67594
                        Andrew
                        Participant

                          Methinks, it could be one of the Bundy’s. I’m pretty sure the gubermint ain’t finished with them yet.

                        • #67595
                          ragnarok
                          Participant

                            @shooter
                            I understand that the situation in Oregon might well be complex and gubmint agent provocateurs may well be working the crowd. However, with your logic, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Henry, Revere, Rush etc….were working for King George III.

                          • #67596
                            Lloyd
                            Participant

                              ragnorak, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

                              Lines in the sand are all good and well, but THIS situation does not seem like a very good PR stunt. The Bundy Ranch was not the same situation.

                              MVT Texas 2015-2020
                              Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                            • #67597
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                However, with your logic, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Henry, Revere, Rush etc….were working for King George III.

                                These goofballs are not quite in that category, regardless of their intentions.

                                At best this is a poor attempt to right wrongs by some naive individuals, at worst government manipulated stooges.

                                I don’t fear the possible ramifications since I feel it is only matter of time before something happens, unfortunately we will all have to potentially deal with the outcome regardless of our thoughts on this.

                              • #67598
                                Max
                                Keymaster

                                  YEP!!!!!

                                  And remember there will never be a perfect “hill to die on.” Every cause will have question marks. Everyone involved will be slandered and defamed.

                                  When will be the time they won’t call us nuts? When they are at your door and you act…as you should…will they then say “well now that was justified because ‘x’…” or will they say ” a right wing gun nut with bomb making materials and ‘stockpiles’ of ammo and guns attacked the good servants of the people doing their jobs.” ? Hell no. You will be the crazy. Maybe you’ll get a good mention on Alex Jones. Or Santelli.

                                  WHEN? How about when they are stealing money out of our bank accounts to pay taxes we “owe” without a court order? Been there. didn’t like that one bit.

                                  How about when they take your kids because you are a “radical” I’ve seen this again and again on the news. How about when it hits your home? Will that be the time?

                                  I may not like the timing. but there must come a push too far by us or them. At some point we WILL either need to stand and say ENOUGH or just call em up and say “nevermind guys, I have some guns,ammo and food to donate to you” but be warned they will likely come to pick up that stuff by kicking in your door and announcing their presence by shooting your dog and flash-banging you. ooops.

                                  Stand together or hang separately? You choose. I can tell you I have a whole lot more in common with the “militia” guys in Oregon than those surrounding it.

                                  The founders and everyone who ever stood up to tyranny were criminals and “terrorists” in their day.

                                  Funny how this idiotic government allows the communists to take over schools for “safe areas” or some other stupid cause. Or they let the thugs burn down furgusson or Baltimore. And it’s importing actual islamic terrorists from Syria and elsewhere.

                                  But hell no, not when it’s defending Americans constitutional rights.

                                  I’d be there now if it was within a days drive. Would have been at the Bundy ranch if were closer.

                                  We are very fortunate here. Lots of land. Almost no BLM. Spoiled even.

                                • #67599
                                  Max
                                  Keymaster

                                  • #67600
                                    Anonymous
                                    Inactive

                                      Thankfully I’m not the only one here thinking this is a terrible situation.

                                      Figures, too, that a lot of liberals are loving the irony of the government not “dealing with” a bunch of crazy white men with “assault rifles” while black folks in open-carry states get shot by the police without warning for holding toy guns.

                                      There’s nothing defensible about their position, the local militia, Three-Percenter crowd and the Hammonds themselves don’t even want their “assistance” – the Bundys are effectively carpetbagging themselves into local Oregonian politics.

                                      Is it screwed up that these guys got what sounds a lot like double jeopardy because of US anti-terrorism laws? Sure, but setting yourselves up for the Internet to troll you as #VanillaISIS pretty much has the opposite effect on protesting excessive anti-terror legislation. These guys are already being labeled as domestic terrorists by the left, though I won’t say it’s terrorism until they actually use terror as a tactic, otherwise those same liberals should label the Black Panthers or AIM as terrorists as well since they also did armed occupations, but I digress.

                                      In summary: This is not Mao in China, this is Che in Bolivia.

                                    • #67601
                                      DiznNC
                                      Participant

                                        This sit sucks balls. You don’t want to side with either party. But you’re gonna get dragged into it, if it starts a shooting war.

                                        But on the other hand, why have all these cop shootings and so forth not kicked off an open civil war in the black community?

                                        Then on the other hand, why is their behavior tolerated but white Christian patriot is considered threatening and must be stopped?

                                        I would say the deck is stacked against us.

                                      • #67602
                                        Anonymous
                                        Inactive

                                          But on the other hand, why have all these cop shootings and so forth not kicked off an open civil war in the black community?

                                          From my (not black) perspective, most black folks realize that open armed confrontation against the police would wind up with them all dead and everyone labeling them as “thugs” or whatever on the news. (Politically-aware black folks think the media is after them as much as liberty-minded folks do.) If Ferguson PD had marksmen lining up shots on unarmed protesters, what would they do with armed ones? Sure, there were groups like the Black Panthers and such back in the day, but find any white people who could relate to them in any way. White man with a gun = patriotic ‘Murican, while black man with a gun = shot by police or a suspect. Don’t forget how effective COINTELPRO (and decades of urban Democratic politics) was at shattering whatever efforts at black armed opposition existed.

                                          A black militia nowadays would immediately scare gun-shy liberals away. Enough of the liberty movement would freak out and claim they’re part of a federal plot to take over America that it would scare off the few black folks who weren’t already convinced by the media that the liberty movement = the Klan before we could sit down to talk and find common ground. (I shit you not, I remember some right-winger I knew from college shared a Facebook video of some inner-city stomp team that wore BDU pants and the original poster claimed they were Obama’s shock troops he would use to establish a dictatorship.) It also doesn’t help when Cliven Bundy’s making remarks to the media about how the “Negroes” were better off picking cotton during slavery, because of course nowadays all black men live off of welfare checks, and these are the folks the liberal media can say are leaders of the liberty movement.

                                          This mutual distrust between white patriot groups and black activists would need to be dealt with one way or another before any future SHTF event, hopefully with cooperation over mutual interests instead of bloodshed because of mutual fear.

                                          Then on the other hand, why is their behavior tolerated but white Christian patriot is considered threatening and must be stopped?

                                          Ironically, I’m seeing the opposite reaction amongst my black and liberal Facebook friends – police were sending armored vehicles and riot police after unarmed Black Lives Matter protesters in Ferguson and elsewhere, but so far there’s no riot police or National Guard preparing to kick the Bundys’ door in in Oregon. Is it white privilege? It depends on your perspective, I guess.

                                          Not that I agree with all those sentiments, but to play Devil’s Advocate…lol

                                          It’s kind of funny that a Baltimore kid can kind of relate to those folks up in Oregon – a local protest movement breaks out after something questionable happens, then yahoos from out of state come up and stir up the pot to make something crazy happen to suit their own agendas.

                                          Probably, the feds are going to cordon the area, block anyone from entering, offer deals to anyone who surrenders voluntarily, and basically starve them out. From the news reports they’re making it a point to keep a low profile to avoid anyone from freaking out, let’s hope it stays that way, cooler heads prevail, and neither side screws this up. If this fiasco in Oregon becomes the rallying cry for some premature revolution we’re all boned.

                                        • #67603
                                          Anonymous
                                          Inactive

                                            For supplemental reading, since this just popped up in my Facebook feed and I had totally forgotten about this bit of history…

                                            Here’s What Happened When Black People Tried Armed Occupation

                                          • #67604
                                            xsquidgator
                                            Participant

                                              Running through a bunch of blogs, and out of all places, this USMC-themed blog strikes me as being most on-target:
                                              Two blog entries include

                                              (1) http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/2016/01/james-yeager-and-why-hes-not-going-to.html
                                              and
                                              (2) http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-ranchers-at-center-of-oregon-issue.html

                                              Nutshell version: It's a trap

                                            • #67605
                                              DiznNC
                                              Participant

                                                Yeah, I see both sides. Liberal media outlets proclaim whites get a pass while blacks are shot down. Must be a point of view thing. I see blacks protesting and rioting and getting away with it. Others see blacks being shot by police as some kind of national epidemic. I see blacks shooting each other wholesale with nothing being said.

                                                Pretty funny in that different people can look at the same sit and come up with totally opposite conclusions. Talk about politics driving the train, there it is. When over 90% of blacks deaths are ignored, and less than 10% (probably a lot less) are caused by cops, why is it the blacks are out in force protesting the cops? And why is it, that the business owners who have nothing to do with it are always the ones who suffer? It’s all a big shit show.

                                              • #67606
                                                Andrew
                                                Participant

                                                  Liberal media outlets also overlook the connection between the Crocodile tears in Chief dude and Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorn. Talk about white terrorists.

                                                  And yet, the New Black Panthers and Louis Farrokhan and his inflamatory rhetoric are somehow over looked.

                                                  I’m sure it’s accidental.

                                                • #67607
                                                  Anonymous
                                                  Inactive

                                                    Well, I don’t have any issue with folks protesting, just as long as they are civil and not violent. Black folks have the right to protest their grievances and be heard just like the rest of us, and at least here in Baltimore the official protests were peaceful up until Malik Shabazz and other folks from out of town came and got folks riled up afterwards.

                                                    True, most black murder victims are other black people (though that’s true of every race, you’re usually murdered by someone you know), the sentiment is that police should be held to a higher standard – you shouldn’t have to worry about being killed by an officer like you would a gangbanger, which is how a lot of black folks worry. I know a lot of the local cops around here because of my job – most are pretty cool folks, but at the same time I’m also white like most of them, so I don’t know how many of them would regard me the same way if I looked differently and I didn’t know them from work. A lot of the cops here in Baltimore City aren’t from Baltimore or even Maryland (a lot commute from PA), if I were black how much would I even have in common with the dudes patrolling my streets? Just a thought.

                                                    I remember when these protests were still really popping off seeing a lot of posts saying variations of “We need to stop killing each other” and photos of local marches of black men saying they need to step up to contain the violence in their own communities and the like; those thoughts goes through folks’ heads here too but that’s not “revolutionary” or sensational so it’s not something that draws support from college liberals or coverage from CNN.

                                                    That reminds me of an article I read on the NYT or somewhere about how various black leaders who had been backing Obama’s “plans” to reduce gun violence had been feeling disappointed that he was focused on background checks and assault weapons bans and ignoring their requests to push for programs to address inner-city gun violence, such as Operation Ceasefire. Apparently there wasn’t the “political will” to fund those programs. Shows you where folks’ political priorities are, but us here already knew that.

                                                    …But back to the topic, seems like the Feds are just letting things fester now, I’m not reading anything indicating they’re preparing for any type of raid. (And I have like ten different news apps on my phone, it’s terrible lol.) Maybe the political strategy is to keep this going as long as possible so the local Oregonians keep getting more and more pissed at the Bundy Bunch and drag the patriot movement through the mud with it? Oregonians keep protesting these out-of-staters occupying a park (even the Paiutes have come out to tell them to go the hell home already, the park is their ancestral land) so the Bundys’ “militia” looks like the aggressors whether you think they are or not. As long as this goes on and is reported in the news it’s a steady stream of bad publicity and news reports about militias and patriots and three-percenters and how all of us are yahoos and an outgrowth of Posse Comitatus and Neo-Nazis and whatever, report after report of white guys with “assault weapons” occupying a federal building without consequences juxtaposed against reports of the next unarmed black folks killed by police. (I don’t think Mark Potok is going to be short of speaking engagements anytime soon, that’s for sure.) As long as this drags on it’s great for the anti-gunners, no point in kicking the doors in and making these guys right-wing political martyrs, keep the gravy train rolling – they’re gonna surrender voluntarily anyway, apparently they didn’t even think to bring cold weather gear. Like bruh, it gets cold in Oregon. :unsure:

                                                    Seems like these Bundys totally had no idea or concern about the human terrain before they planned this “operation.” At least now we’ll have a working example as how to not organize this kind of protest.

                                                  • #67608
                                                    xsquidgator
                                                    Participant

                                                      I still have mixed thoughts & feelings. I think it’s clear the Hammonds are getting an unfair and maybe illegal screwing by the federal government. I suspect they’re under a lot of fed pressure to go along with this (and perhaps eventual fed seizure of their property to be given to the sierra club or sycophants), and that voluntarily going back to prison may be to them their best choice. Trying to prevent wrongful arrest or seizure is a different thing though than what appears to be going on.

                                                      One big red flag is the motley crew of stolen valor thieves and even criminal records among those that occupied the federal building. At least one of them (the fake ranger guy who was at Bundy ranch) exhibits some red flag behaviors that are at best self-aggrandizing, and at worst indicative of a provocateur or informant who’s trying to make something happen for his own reasons. I could maybe see a protest of what’s happening to the Hammonds, although it’s not clear to me why seizing this particular building is advancing that cause. Whatever these guys are up to, their shady (putting it nicely) backgrounds make me think their purpose is something other than to try to help the Hammonds.

                                                      Jon over at TAH said it pretty well, and after thinking about it, this is a better way maybe to try to articulate it:

                                                      I’ll tell you a secret – I think the Hammonds got a raw deal from the government. I don’t think they should be in prison. However, I am loathe to associate myself with those clowns who took over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge building. If anything, they’re forcing the prosecutor and the judicial system to enforce the Hammonds’ imprisonment. If they were considering any leniency, that possibility has evaporated lest the prosecutors look like the militias are having an impact on their decision.

                                                      Update – see MVT blog post on “Hold the Line”. Enough said, probably.

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