HEAT 1 Observations June 2019

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    • #62108
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

        Another class done and some different things happened this go round.

        There were two different rifles that had bent charging handles. One on day 1 and another on day 2. Neither student knew the manufacturer of the charging handles. They both had spare rifles and were able to swap CH’s and continue with the class. This is another reason that I recommend BCM CH’s. Although anything can happen, I have yet to see one get bent.

        If you are going to attach a flashlight to a rail ensure that the mount is a good one and is tightened up like it supposed to be. Otherwise it will work itself loose.

        Morning of day 4 a student is running one of the lanes when his rifle turned into a bolt action. He had to run the CH after every shot. After the drill we started to diagnose what the issue was. Found that the adjustment knob for the adjustable gas block was gone. It was letting all of the gas escape out the front of the gas block. He had bought the upper complete so it came with it. Another student had a spare rifle and allowed this student to use it for the remainder of day 4.

        There is no quick fix for this. This is one of the reasons that I am not a fan of adjustable gas blocks.

        If you are going to change gas blocks it needs to installed with tapered pins and not screws. Care to guess why?

        Hex Mags. Had one student using them and was consistently over inserting them causing the BCG to not be able to go forward into battery, it was stopping against the magazine. The first time it took two if us to get it out. This is an issue that I have heard of and seen numerous times with this brand. They are not better than PMags and the price is no better.

        End of day 4 as Max was putting the pop up targets away he noticed numerous key holes in the targets. Someones rifle bbl was shot out. We had no way of knowing whose it was so I briefed everyone that they needed to test their rifles when they got home.

        AR bbl’s have a life span of about 20,000 rounds. Some may go less, others more. They can go from shooting good to crappy pretty quickly. Usually you will notice a drop off in accuracy first. In this case we saw no issues when looking at the targets on the square range on days 1 and 2 and no issues on the pop ups at the end of day 3.

        FILO
        Signal Out, Can You Identify
        Je ne regrette rien
        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

      • #62109
        Anonymous
        Inactive

          Thanks.. Great info and follow up..

        • #62110
          wheelsee
          Participant

            :good: :good:

            I can attest to the key-holing. One relay everything fine. The next was key-holing. I had about 12K rounds through (AeroPrecision). I called the company because I thought I had remembered them saying 20-30K on their barrels (nitrided), when I told them how many, their reply was yep, I’d gone over (10K).

            As a mechanically-inclined person (I can screw anything up), I was a bit hesitant to change barrels but it was easily done (you do need a torque wrench). And it was a good learning session for me.

            As always, good info from First Sergeant

          • #62111
            Robert
            Participant

              I’ve only shot out on barrel in a rifle and it took a ton of rounds but the first indication like 1stSargent said was accuracy going to crap.

              Had that same rifle at an armorer’s class some time later and it came up “no go” on the gauge.

              I’m not a big believer in having dozens of extra weapons if everything else isn’t squared away (training, armor, NVGs, food storage, etc.) but there is some value in having at least one extra rifle of the same sort and use one almost exclusively as your training rifle.

            • #62112
              RobRoy
              Participant

                IMO this is priceless info, because damned if I can find any info on frankenrifles from any of the “mainstream” trainers since they are basically salesmen for gear and they would not want to upset a potential business partner going forward.

              • #62113
                First Sergeant
                Moderator

                  IMO this is priceless info, because damned if I can find any info on frankenrifles from any of the “mainstream” trainers since they are basically salesmen for gear and they would not want to upset a potential business partner going forward.

                  Could you expand on that?

                  FILO
                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                  Je ne regrette rien
                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                • #62114
                  RobRoy
                  Participant

                    Most trainers that offer their pitch seem like stock car drivers with sponsors and if they don’t have sponsors they want sponsors. Like the gun mags all guns shoot an inch or “around” an inch and nary a problem.

                  • #62115
                    First Sergeant
                    Moderator

                      Most trainers that offer their pitch seem like stock car drivers with sponsors and if they don’t have sponsors they want sponsors. Like the gun mags all guns shoot an inch or “around” an inch and nary a problem.

                      Do you think that I am advocating for everyone to use frankenguns? That’s not what I am doing.

                      FILO
                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                      Je ne regrette rien
                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                    • #62116
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        Do you think that I am advocating for everyone to use frankenguns?

                        I think he is saying it’s good to hear a trainer giving reports that aren’t glossed over to avoid losing endorsements.

                      • #62117
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          Literally, if everyone showed up to class with a Colt 6920 OEM II, with a BCM charging handle, and nothing stupid added as furniture, it would be job done.

                          No I am not sponsored by Colt.

                          This shit could be really simple. Bottom line is there is too much choice in the market which means people are led by advertising or price to bad places.

                          Just use PMags (Scott likes those) or Lancers (I like those).

                          Just stop with all the random crap.

                          Bring a spare parts kit in a flare tube as Scott tells you. Likely you won’t need it.

                          Not only will the Colt run at class, it will also run when you need it in an emergency.

                          The crap people show up with, you would be forgiven for thinking the AR is unreliable. Your out of spec frankengun is unreliable.

                        • #62118
                          Max
                          Keymaster

                            As we have seen, the firearms world in the US is designed to SELL. This is applicable to both firearms and the bullshit ‘tactics’ these guys are pushing.

                            None if this is designed to keep you alive when the hammer falls. That is what MVT is for. That is why MVT is a niche, non-money making outfit.

                          • #62119
                            RobRoy
                            Participant

                              I’ll swear on a stack of TMs that I did not insult you Scott, it was pretty plain that I wrote that you tell it straight versus the Tactical Timmy types who would never say anything negative about a product.

                              FTR I watch plenty of videos that have a sales pitch, if it is recognized as a sales pitch and not the final truth that shall never be contradicted it is fine, clear judgement required so as to not throw the baby out with the bath water.

                            • #62120
                              First Sergeant
                              Moderator

                                I’ll swear on a stack of TMs that I did not insult you Scott, it was pretty plain that I wrote that you tell it straight versus the Tactical Timmy types who would never say anything negative about a product.

                                FTR I watch plenty of videos that have a sales pitch, if it is recognized as a sales pitch and not the final truth that shall never be contradicted it is fine, clear judgement required so as to not throw the baby out with the bath water.

                                Got it, no worries. That’s what I though you were saying but wanted to make sure.

                                FILO
                                Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                Je ne regrette rien
                                In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                              • #62121
                                JustARandomGuy
                                Participant

                                  Literally, if everyone showed up to class with a Colt 6920 OEM II, with a BCM charging handle, and nothing stupid added as furniture, it would be job done….
                                  Just use PMags (Scott likes those) or Lancers (I like those)….

                                  Oh Max… I admire your positivity on this subject.
                                  As long as stuff like this exists, you’ll never see the end of it.
                                  After all it DOES have a pinned gas block…. :yahoo:
                                  And ran just fine with only a minor hickup for 1500 rounds using CAA/promag/mako/whatever mags. You know you’re just paying for a name with that Colt fanboying, right? All ARs are the same. All polymer mags are pretty much the same these days too- polymers have come a long ways since the 80’s you know…
                                  ;-)

                                  Morning of day 4 a student is running one of the lanes when his rifle turned into a bolt action. He had to run the CH after every shot. After the drill we started to diagnose what the issue was. Found that the adjustment knob for the adjustable gas block was gone. It was letting all of the gas escape out the front of the gas block. He had bought the upper complete so it came with it. Another student had a spare rifle and allowed this student to use it for the remainder of day 4.

                                  Wow…. this is the how many’th time a gas block has failed in some way at a class? IIRC there was a couple last year too?

                                • #62122
                                  TC
                                  Participant

                                    Would gladly run a Colt with a pinned gas block. The most affordable fight-worthy AR out there it looks like. I have a BCM though because Colt wasn’t selling low-profile free-floated carbines at the time, AFAIK. Yep, the BCM has set screws on the gas block. Though as an exception to the rule, they’re notorious for being a bitch to get off because unlike most, BCM dimples their barrels deeper than normal and uses some high-strength high-temp variant of Red Loctite. Requires a MAPP torch hard cranking to remove. Not something most home builders would care/know to do.

                                  • #62123
                                    Hessian
                                    Participant

                                      Sadly the Colt 6920 OEM II is no longer in production. I did a search right after the April Heat 1 class and they are sold out everywhere.

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