Great Example: Raid, Kurds on Turks
September 10, 2016 at 4:55 pm #109867
Now that Tango got me started on Kurd/Turk videos, here is a great example of a raid. It’s not perfect, but it gives some great learning points.
Summary: We have a lone Turkish position on the shoulder of a spur, surrounded by higher ground. It appears to be a rock built sanger/wall with tarps and camo netting for overhead. The attack starts with a volley of RPG and PKM fire and has an immediate and visible effect, starting two Turks initially running from the position. Relevant to the original POV of the first camera, the supportfire seems to initially come from the right side, but as it progresses it appears to be coming from both the left and right side relative to the original POV. This is not conventionally acceptable, but is a feature of the region.
Very rapidly, an assault force makes its way down the spur from the right of the original POV. It reaches the edge of the rock wall. This assault cannot be classic fire and movement for the fight through, because in effect the whole Turkish base is a bunker. Thus, the assault stalls as they are unable to make the ‘break in battle.’ What happens is an attempted bunker clearance with a grenade duel. There are a number of points from this. The video concludes before the assault does. The Kurdish assault force is a determined and aggressive group.
Points from the timeline:
00:23: it is noticeable that a lot of Turkish movement in the base is visible to the camera POV. This is a big issue for them and could render them vulnerable to sniper fire. Use of camo nets for cover from view may help them. I often say to behave as if you are under enemy observation at all times, and in this case they really are. Turks are also walking around away from their positions without their load bearing equipment and rifles. Complacency kills. When the attack starts, several of them are without anything. How many of you have I told on Combat Patrol about this, and found you walking around the patrol base “just chillin’?”
01:34: BOOM! Shit just took a left turn, RPG impact from the right turns their world upside down. One minute, complacent shitty soldier, now it’s dyin’ time. Tell me this when you watch this: do you think the Kurds give a fuck about the lives of any of the Turks? Absolutely not. They are killing them. That is how your enemy will see you. They don’t give a fuck about your hopes and dreams. The initial fire is from the right and two Turks immediately run out and seek cover to the left. But shortly after there are impacts from the left.
(I may have my angle perception wrong and what appears to be SBF from both sides could be an initial attack from the right from what later becomes the assault force, with SBF continuing from the left. It’s hard to tell sometimes in these videos. It’s my story and I’m sticking to it……)
There is an awesome amount of suppressing fire going in onto this base and it meets with MVT approval.
02:28: we shift to the second camera POV. We see a Turk running for his life down the spur.
“Conan, what is best in life?”
“To see your enemies driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.”
02:48: we are back to the original POV and we see the first part of the assault group arriving at the edge of the base from the right side. AK fire and grenades are going into the base over the wall. It’s a big bunker (grenades are the darker smudges of smoke). Throughout this POV you can see strike from PKM support fire hitting the left side of the base and hillside. That is how close your SBF will be to ‘fire you onto the objective.’
The assault force basically gets hung up at that right wall and is unable to make the break-in battle at this time. There are still Turks fighting inside and you can see them pop up or run from time to time. A designated marksman / sniper would be a great addition to the support PKM fire.
04:00: Cool gladiator style music form the Kurds. Me like.
04:32: Turk moving in center of position.
04:45: some weird slo-mo if a Kurd throwing a grenade.
05:03: dead center of position behind the wall, Turk moving and returning fire to the SBF on the left. Also, a grenade explodes at this time on the Kurd side of the wall. Grenade duel. Not no one is hurt? Grenades are sort of ineffective outside of an enclosed space. Not as scary as you think.
05:22: another Turk runs. Grenade / AK onslaught from the assault team is remorseless.
05:43: the assault group is pushing left on the wall and get grenades further into the center of the camp. This appears to start a later ammunition fire. By about 07:38 they have, and continue, to grenade the shit out of this base. However, remember that although this may morally destroy the enemy and force them to give up/flee, it is unlikely to kill them. They are always alive when you get there!
07:45: center position Turk is very much alive and returning fire to the left to the SBF position. A grenade explodes right behind him, from the assault group. Several of his buddies already ran. Recommendation for a medal anyone? Probably posthumously, after the Kurds get hold of him and cut him up.
09:05: Turk running to right in center of base. Is it our hero? At 09:21 he can be seen returning fire at the assault group, his back to the SBF.
09:30: now we see the base really badly burning. What is interesting is that the assault group is no longer by the wall. They are on the right and it appears they are leaving. I do not knwo what the time lapse was here, but they either went in and overran the base, of they did not go in, reduced it by grenades, and then left. Perhaps our man inside survived? What is sure is that the Turks never got any QRF, they never got any Arty or CAS support, and they did not have alert or effective enough sentries to detect this attack before it happened.
Edit: this was gone from youtube, so I found it on liveleak and updated it here:
September 11, 2016 at 6:35 am #109868
This one doesn’t have much activity so far. Maybe a boring title. It’s a great video. Bumping.
September 11, 2016 at 9:52 am #109869hellokittyParticipant
Would you recommend a cutoff group at possibly POV 2 with a belt fed to hammer the squirters running from the OP?
HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
HEAT 2 (CP) X1
September 11, 2016 at 10:55 am #109870MrBParticipant
When I’m watching the video, I keep think to myself: what would I do if I was in this base trying to defend my position. It appears from the video that there is no QRF to back you up so you are on your own.
Obviously, I would not want to be manning such a bad position but hey sometimes you get a crappy lot in life. I would think that ideally you would have another mutually supporting position and QRF so that you can take the fight back to the “enemy” (I am just looking at it from the prospective of the base). With out the ability to hit back you are just a sitting duck.
They have no ability to maneuver on and flank the enemy from this position so it seems like the Saudis where they are just hanging out waiting to be killed. I believe the biggest take away from these videos for me is trying to figure out how I would uncork someones head from their rear end and prevent this from being the cluster goat fuck that it is.
September 11, 2016 at 11:24 am #109871
There are a lot of layers to this from basic training an professionalism all the way up to siting and the employment of the principles of defense.
Even as a very basic level, if we assume thry had what they had, a good effective watch rotation amd ground domination activity patrols would have gone a long way to detecting and deterring this threat before it became a surprise attack..
You gotta patrol! You gotta have battle discipline!
September 11, 2016 at 7:14 pm #109872tangoParticipant
Damn, that makes the Kurdish road ambush look like total amateurs. Much better execution.
Still no interest in assaulting through a position. I’ve noticed this in many middle eastern videos of numerous allegiances. Do they have some sort of culture predisposition against fighting close combat?
November 22, 2016 at 8:16 am #109873
I just noticed that the video was gone, it was taken down from youtube. I have updated the post with the video from liveleak.
If anyone notices this with any other videos, please let me know, I will likely use liveleak from now on.
November 22, 2016 at 8:27 am #109874RRSParticipant
Probably on my end but I could not see the vid
November 22, 2016 at 8:39 am #109875
November 22, 2016 at 10:05 am #109876RRSParticipant
Thanks. I just finished Rommel’s “Infantry Attacks” and coincidently it addresses uphill attacks and fortification defense.
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