Good article (w diagrams and pictures) re July 2016 Dallas active shooter

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    • #96136
      xsquidgator
      Participant

        Article re Dallas active shooter and standoff

        Interesting article with a number of graphics and first-person video (after the event) showing how Dallas SWAT responded to the active shooter. Most of the detailed information describes what happened and how it looked to the police showing up at El Centro College with the shooter holed up on the 2nd floor.

      • #96137
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Excellent article, glad you shared it “xsquidgator”

          Here is the link to our original discussion…

          Dallas

          It is worth a review to compare with this new information.

          As originally discussed between available video of shooter and combined with SWAT accounts in this article I still have great difficulty with Shooters listed background and his actions.

          Note: I am not making the case for some tin foil theory.

          The depicted and described fluidity of his movements, controlled aggression, and calm demeanor even after being shot.

          These are typically the actions of not just training, but a experienced veteran of violent encounters.

          To put this in context; particularly for those who haven’t been under fire, even highly trained military without actual experience do not typically show such poise under fire, and this is with many comrades for support around them.

          I can’t emphasize enough how difficult a feat mentally a lone gunman, regardless of training, would have taking such action against multiple trained LEO’s.

          The fear, stress, adrenaline, uncertainty, and being truly alone do not make for calm actions even by experienced combat veterans.

          These were the actions you would expect from the top 1% of highly seasoned combat veterans.

          No tin foil, but it is difficult consolidate the shooters actions with his background.

          Regardless there is much to learn here.

        • #96138
          hellokitty
          Participant

            The Miami FBI shooters were similar in that they were 100% ready to get it on, knowing they were going to die.

            HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
            HEAT 2 (CP) X1
            FOF X3
            OPFOR X2
            CLC X2
            RIFLEMAN

          • #96139
            wheelsee
            Participant

              From the article – “He needed to stall and develop a rapport while they worked their plan.”

              Most don’t realize the true job of the HN (hostage negotiator). It is singular in purpose – to end the situation. If it can be done peacefully, OK. If it requires maximum violence, so be it. Once the decision has been made for violence of action, his ONLY job is to set the HT (hostage taker), aka “target”, up in the best position for final action – whether it be for breach or for sniper fire.

            • #96140
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                I have voiced my concern over LEA’s using explosives in this manner.

                This particular method of delivery is essentially outdated for all but the most ignorant of targets.

                Anyone this serious will now be expecting this option. Whether there is an effective countermeasure would be dependent on resources of target.

              • #96141
                hellokitty
                Participant

                  This is obvious but a lot of people miss this…
                  The shooter was most dangerous when he was able move (maneuver) and killed all the LEOs while maneuvering on them. Once he was cornered and became stationary. It was only a matter of time before he was killed.

                  What kind of rifle was irrelevant as long as it was semi-auto. His ability to maneuver was the key.

                  HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
                  HEAT 2 (CP) X1
                  FOF X3
                  OPFOR X2
                  CLC X2
                  RIFLEMAN

                • #96142
                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                  Moderator

                    Here is a related Thread by First Sergeant Hugging Cover.

                    I wanted to clarify why I increased my estimation of the Shooters capabilities from my original Dallas Thread analysis.

                    When you read the reported dialog with Dallas SWAT the shooter displays an extreme calmness that is in major conflict with his situation. This seems beyond just someone excepting his imminent death IMHO.

                  • #96143
                    A_A_Ron2guns
                    Participant

                      There’s a fairly good answer as to why he was so calm. It’s the acceptance of death. I remember the first time I knew for a fact (turns out I was wrong) that I was going to die. I remember being panicked first and then realizing that I’d be dead soon. I accepted it and felt an overwhelming sense of calm. I was able to think clearly and rationally. Everything was slow. My job actually became easy.

                      The emotional aftermath of dealing with surviving was almost more traumatic. Since then it’s kind of like a switch you can turn off and on.

                      I think he made his peace and we’re seeing how dangerous a dead man can be.

                      Also it would appear I was wrong about the justification of the explosives. They had not been ruled justified by the DA when I said they had. It was just obvious they would be.

                    • #96144
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        The emotional aftermath of dealing with surviving was almost more traumatic.

                        I have some thoughts on this as well, but to make it coherent I’ll need some time to get it straight.

                        Also it would appear I was wrong about the justification of the explosives. They had not been ruled justified by the DA when I said they had. It was just obvious they would be.

                        Agreed, though I believe you understand the concerns many here have regarding potential abuse of such methods. Time will tell if these concerns are warranted.

                      • #96145
                        A_A_Ron2guns
                        Participant

                          I think it’s good people are concerned about the robo-bomb because it means we’re paying attention and there are limits to what’s allowed.

                          I think this was a totally legit use of force and I think we’re going to see more of it. Not because it’s easy or fun or better or whatever. I think we’re going to see it more because the threats LEO are facing are getting worse and more violent more often.

                          About a month ago my shift investigated two mass shootings that were being planned on the same day. Just to give some perspective. These things are thwarted everyday but you just don’t hear about it.

                        • #96146

                          What a gripping article. There was was insignificant detail that sort of popped out of me.

                          Bullets rocketed past Canete’s face and debris flew into his eyes. He rolled left, out of the line of fire.

                          Reminder to self, invest in high quality eye protection for indoor/lowlight use.

                        • #96147
                          Lloyd
                          Participant

                            @Tactical Camera Operator – These are awesome. “Chuck Morris” and I have been wearing them, day and night, for years.

                            https://www.oakleysi.com/en-us/product/W0OO9146?variant=888392096470

                            MVT Texas 2015-2020
                            Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                          • #96148
                            gatlinggun
                            Participant

                              Don’t want to hijack the thread, but……

                              Can anyone recommend prescription tactical eyewear? Getting old is a bitch…

                            • #96149
                              First Sergeant
                              Moderator

                                Don’t want to hijack the thread, but……

                                Can anyone recommend prescription tactical eyewear? Getting old is a bitch…

                                Smith Optics

                                FILO
                                Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                Je ne regrette rien
                                In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

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