Coronavirus: Fact vs Fearmongering.

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    • #137875
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        So let’s look at a few quotes from latest propaganda! ;-)

        The spread of a deadly new virus is accelerating, Chinese President Xi Jinping warned, after holding a special government meeting on the Lunar New Year public holiday.

        The World Health Organization this week stopped short of calling the outbreak a global health emergency.

        Professor Neil Ferguson, an expert at Imperial College London, said the new strain is currently “as deadly as the Spanish flu epidemic”.The 1918 outbreak is the most severe pandemic in recent history, wiping out an estimated 50 million people across the world.

        Sounds scary?

        To me it reminds me of the weather guessers at the first sign of a hurricane. ;-)

        Human coronaviruses are common throughout the world.

        Seven different coronaviruses, that scientists know of, can infect people and make them sick.

        Some human coronaviruses were identified many years ago and some have been identified recently.

        Human coronaviruses commonly cause mild to moderate illness in people worldwide. Two newer human coronaviruses, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV, have been known to frequently cause severe illness.

        2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) is the current fearmongers wet dream!

        Situation Summary
        The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is closely monitoring an outbreak of respiratory illness caused by a novel (new) coronavirus first identified in Wuhan, Hubei Province, China. Chinese authorities identified the new coronavirus, which has resulted in hundreds of confirmed cases in China, including cases outside Wuhan, with additional cases being identified in a growing number of countries internationally. The first case in the United States was announced on January 21, 2020. There are ongoing investigations to learn more.

        The 2019-nCoV situation like any threat needs to be monitored and prudent measures taken.

        How about a reality check!

        Here are some basic numbers of deaths Yearly for the World from various infectious threats. 2019-nCoV is as yet a minor threat.

        In 2012, 8.6 million people fell ill with TB and 1.3 million died from TB.

        In 2013, 1.5 (1.4–1.7) million people died from HIV-related causes globally.

        Pneumonia kills an estimated 1.1 million children
        under the age of five years every year – more than AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis combined.

        More than 780,000 people die every year due to the consequences of hepatitis B.

        In 2012, Malaria caused an estimated 627,000 deaths (with an uncertainty range of 473,000 to 789,000).

        Worldwide Influenza, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 250,000 to 500,000 deaths.

        350,000 to 500,000 people die each year from hepatitis C-related liver diseases.

        There are an estimated 200,000 cases of yellow fever, causing 30,000 deaths, worldwide each year, with 90% occurring in Africa.

        In 2012, there were 122,000 measles deaths globally – about 330 deaths every day or 14 deaths every hour.

        There are an estimated 3–5 million cholera cases and 100,000–120,000 deaths due to cholera every year.

        So the 42 deaths attributed to 2019-nCoV is tragic to those individuals and their families.

        However it’s not time to panic! :yes:

        More to follow…

      • #137880
        wheelsee
        Participant

          The 2 cases in Texas are both college-students who were in Wuhan China.

          One goes to Texas A&M in College Station and the other goes to Baylor Univ in Waco.

          We’ll see how they do.

        • #137889
          tacticalhippy
          Participant

            Details in the link. IMO the bigger issue isn’t the current WuFlu virus, but rather the apparent ability of various bad actors (clearly the Chinese are not alone in this capability) to develop future existential threats to humanity.

            Viruses targeted to specific blood types…races…genomes?

            https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it

            “ China’s Biological Warfare Program is believed to include full range of traditional chemical & biological agents with a wide variety of delivery systems including artillery rockets, aerial bombs, sprayers, and short-range ballistic missiles. #coronarovirus”

          • #137897
            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
            Moderator

              Viruses targeted to specific blood types…races…genomes?

              This is a possible threat, but is more the stuff of dystopian novels than reality at this time.

              Various State actors acquire biological samples by legal and other means. Hardly anything new or unexpected.

              As noted the current fearmongering is more hype than reality. Consider what hidden agendas require such deceptions.

              A rational response and critical thinking is needed to respond to these events.

            • #137910
              Max
              Keymaster

                I was reading that the CDC has or had a patent on the corona virus, which just expired.

                Maybe it’s a nice time to start a scare for a new vaccine scam?

              • #137912
                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                Moderator

                  Maybe it’s a nice time to start a scare for a new vaccine scam?

                  Fear is a powerful tool for control!

                  Ignorance keeps people in fear.

                  As I’ve written previously fear and anger prevents rational reaction.

                • #137927
                  D Close
                  Moderator

                    Some legitimate causes for concern:

                    Evacuation of Wuhan by US Consulate personnel. Why was this necessary?

                    Closure of Beijing

                    Transmission by asymptomatic carriers of virus preventing border detection. Unlikely that virus can be contained.

                    3-5% lethality. With 2-3k known cases we should see about 150 total deaths in the next week or so. I think we are at 52 or so confirmed today

                    It is clear the Chinese government is very concerned. The main threat appears to be the possibility that health care systems could be overwhelmed, causing panic and undermining legitimacy of existing government power structure. This explains the rush to build 1000 bed hospitals.

                    The symptoms are easily mistaken for influenza.

                    What are possible impacts to global commerce?
                    What are global political risks of exponential increase in number of cases?
                    What is likelihood of high infection rates in US cities?
                    What countermeasures is USG likely to deploy to defend against this threat?
                    What are political effects should rapid outbreak occur in US?

                  • #137930
                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                    Moderator

                      Why was this necessary?

                      Fear is a powerful tool for control!

                      SARS-CoV had depending on who’s numbers you like had as high as 11% mortality.

                      MERS-CoV as high as 40%.

                      Neither of which had significant impacts worldwide.

                      At this time concern for this in the U.S. is beyond hyperbole.

                      Remember the average population density is as high as 7,800 per square mile. China’s situation and ours is completely dissimilar.

                      Don’t fall for the hype!

                      Monitor, but don’t fear.

                    • #137931
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                      • #137936
                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                        Moderator

                          MRSA (Methicillin-Resistant Staphylococcus Aureus) Infections cause far more deaths.

                        • #137950
                          winston
                          Participant

                            Agreed with this, but two things come into play.
                            The 2019 novel coronovirus (2019-nCOV), which is what they are now calling it, appears to have a very low morality rate, 1-3% in its current state.
                            However, it does now appear to be making human to human transmission and we’re not really sure of exposure/infection rate (or R0, the R naught value) yet.

                            If 1 billion people get it, the final numbers will sound astronomical, 100-300 million, but it’s still only 1-3%. 100 million get it, 1 million and so on.

                            I work with a lot of epidemiologists. I’ll get worried when they do. Right now… Not so worried. But I work in this world and am on the phone with multiple CDC teams often. I’ll let you know the temperature as I hear it.

                            https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/index.html

                          • #137962
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              Anytime events like this come up everyone should follow it, however people don’t need to worry. I’ve been involved in this world in the past as well.

                              I do have supplies for dealing with such threats, but not because of anything specific. I am prepared because this is one of thousands of potential threats.

                              I’ve never prepared for specific threats, a thorough broad approach is always my recommendation.

                              …we’re not really sure…

                              That’s the biggest thing in most of these events.

                              The first big Ebola in the U.S. panic back in 2014 is prime example.

                              A prime point in that was the obvious difference between impoverished African with a poor nutrition and a healthy westerners ability to fight off viruses.

                              Ultimately none of these are as clear cut as many think. Lots of variables.

                            • #137970
                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                              Moderator

                                Giving that I keep bringing up issues like this and for the benefit of newer members.

                                Consider this from the early days of this forum…

                                Please welcome G.W.N.S. as our new CBRN Mod.

                                He comes with a tremendous amount of real world CBRN/NBC/WMD experience.

                                As those have been here for awhile realize I had a very diverse career.

                                I am retired military with over 20 years of service. I’ve had the opportunity to participate in Joint Operations Worldwide with members of all U.S. Branches of the Armed Forces and many of it’s Coalition Allies including the GWOT.

                                My relevant background includes, but is not limited to:

                                Intelligence
                                MASINT
                                Sensor Operations and Analysis
                                CBRN

                                …and for those unfamiliar…

                                Measurement and signature intelligence (MASINT) is a technical branch of intelligence gathering, which serves to detect, track, identify or describe the signatures (distinctive characteristics) of fixed or dynamic target sources. This often includes radar intelligence, acoustic intelligence, nuclear intelligence, and chemical and biological intelligence

                                The point being that I am qualified to comment on these discussions.

                                This is why Max asked me to provide my analysis

                              • #137973
                                Lloyd
                                Participant

                                  Glad to see you guys chiming in on this. The hype level in a lot of the media is quickly going ballistic.

                                  First, have you seen this? If so, what is your take on it?
                                  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

                                  The small numbers of “confirmed cases” seems at first glance to make this a non-story (at this point)… I know wearing masks is very common in China to prevent the spread of disease, so I take the videos of “masses of sick people” with a grain of salt… A room crowded full of sick people waiting to see the doctor, or 3-4 collapsed people on the streets of a city of 10 million is probably not unusual.

                                  However, China seems to be taking this VERY seriously with multiple cities (combined population of something like 50+ million) being quarantined, US and other countries trying to evacuate citizens, etc.

                                  Is China hyping it up bigger than it really is, as a means of control? Some kind of internal Chinese politicking?

                                  Or on the other extreme, is China trying to cover its own ass and genuinely trying to get a lid on a dangerous bioweapon that escaped from their lab in Wuhan?

                                  MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                  Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                • #138098
                                  MarkA
                                  Participant

                                    Kinda feel like this is relevant.
                                    http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

                                  • #138108
                                    wheelsee
                                    Participant

                                      The 2 cases in Texas are both college-students who were in Wuhan China.

                                      One goes to Texas A&M in College Station and the other goes to Baylor Univ in Waco.

                                      We’ll see how they do.

                                      Being reported today, both tested negative. Another reason to wait for the facts (while taking prudent precautions).

                                      Side note – Influenza A is hitting hard in Texas with a good 15-20% of my patients being positive and requiring more than simple treatment. Of these 15-20%, about 25% are requiring full admission for treatment of dehydration, hypoxia, concomitant pneumonia, etc. I am seeing young, old, otherwise healthy, and comorbids. Influenza only requires droplet precautions (mask and good hand washing).

                                    • #138221
                                      D Close
                                      Moderator

                                        Here’s some facts:

                                        https://www.zerohedge.com/health/man-behind-global-coronavirus-pandemic

                                        Past the initial speculative statements, some interesting information about the research being done at Wuhan. Now we do not know and may never know exactly how the virus got into the population. Interesting information that was discovered from the Wuhan Institute and the work that was being done with bats and their resistance to the viral reservoirs they carry. The science is very interesting.

                                      • #138227
                                        D Close
                                        Moderator

                                          AlertUSA reporting British Airways and United canceling flights to Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong next week. This is a serious economic disruption. These are the major gateways into and out of China for those carriers. It may help slow down spread of virus.

                                          https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0128-travelers-avoid-china.html

                                          The lack of demand is what the airlines are reporting.

                                          • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by D Close.
                                        • #138616
                                          winston
                                          Participant

                                            Update from the bio world.
                                            What we are seeing now from WHO and CDC is, IMHO, a warranted abundance of caution. In the US, the public declaration allows “…access the Infectious Diseases Rapid Response Reserve Fund (when funds are so appropriated) or apply for an Emergency Use Authorization for medical countermeasures needed for the public health response, for example, a new test kit to detect a novel virus.”

                                            Talking with my Epidemiologist coworkers, it’s still too early to know what to the heck is truely going on. That bugs me in that I thought they’d have a handle on at least an R0 by now (transmission rate #). But EVERYONE is taking it very serious now. No fear, but definate realization they are watching a pandemic kick off in real time.

                                            However, to out some levity into the situation, my team is playing a game to come up with a better name to use than 2019 n-CoV. My favorite so far is Chop Flu-y. Other contenders are Kung Fu, Wumonia, and Sweet n Sour Sicken.

                                            Luckily, Mortality rate remains ~3%, just like the seasonal flu. It primarily kills through the respiratory system, mainly affected those with compromised systems…like those of us with asthma. WHO is even calling it an acute respiratory disease.

                                            Latest from CDC. Worth a read to follow this link for daily updates.
                                            https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html

                                            And remember to wash your hands and cover that cough.

                                          • #138623
                                            wheelsee
                                            Participant

                                              From UpToDate.com (a resource for medical personnel)

                                              Coronaviruses have been found in 4 to 6 percent of adults with exacerbations of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (less frequent than rhinoviruses and respiratory syncytial virus; equally frequent or somewhat less frequent than influenza; and more frequent than parainfluenza viruses, human metapneumovirus, and adenoviruses).

                                              The really screwy part (for me) was taking care of a patient recently who had coronavirus (verified through cultures) but also had COPD (didn’t even know this was a thing – coronavirus and COPD). As Joe said, fear-mongering.

                                              Some tidbits from UptoDate

                                              Coronaviruses are the cause of 5 to 10 percent of community-acquired upper respiratory tract infections in adults, occurring sporadically or in outbreaks of variable size, and probably also play a role in severe respiratory infections in both children and adults, particularly adults with underlying pulmonary disease and older adults.

                                              Community-acquired coronaviruses are ubiquitous; wherever investigators have looked, they have been detected. In temperate climates, coronavirus respiratory infections occur primarily in the winter, although smaller peaks are sometimes seen in the fall or spring, and infections can occur at any time of the year.

                                              There is currently no treatment recommended for coronavirus infections except for supportive care as needed.

                                            • #138829
                                              Max
                                              Keymaster

                                                So which is it:

                                                1) Overblown hype.

                                                2) Weaponized virus escaped from the lab.

                                                Whats all this about it being combined with HIV?

                                                How to find the truth among the crazy on the internet, and the lies from the establishment?

                                                :unsure:

                                              • #138832
                                                Lloyd
                                                Participant

                                                  How to find the truth among the crazy on the internet, and the lies from the establishment?

                                                  :unsure:

                                                  EXACTLY how I feel.

                                                  Govts lie. Commie govts lie even more. CDC et al have a shady track record for trying to “sell” us on swine flu, zika, SARS, etc… Even the “official” sources seem to be full of shit most of the time.

                                                  MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                  Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                • #138833
                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                  Moderator

                                                    1) Overblown hype.

                                                    At this point this I consider this threat to be more hype than reality.

                                                    2) Weaponized virus escaped from the lab.

                                                    If this were true then it is a colossal failure as it’s first real world beta test!

                                                    A successful bioweapon should have a far greater result and not necessarily high death rates. Bioweapons have a very specific purpose.

                                                    Yes, some are meant to kill, but others may only meant to change a behavior.

                                                    For example a sick military is not working at full potential.

                                                    A strained medical infrastructure that is slow to react to additional threats is a possibility, but we have no evidence that suggests this right now.

                                                    Whats all this about it being combined with HIV?

                                                    I suspect it relates to the alleged successful use of Remdesivir and other anti-HIV drugs as a possible treatment for 2019-nCoV and other coronavirus varieties.

                                                    All deaths that I am aware of have had additional complications beyond 2019-nCoV.

                                                  • #138834
                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                    Moderator

                                                      …CDC et al have a shady track record…

                                                      Remember without these threats organizations like CDC and WHO have difficulty keeping or increasing their funding!

                                                    • #138837
                                                      MarkA
                                                      Participant
                                                      • #138840
                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                        Moderator

                                                          just posting this here to further the discussion.

                                                          From the linked Zero Hedge article:

                                                          Dr. Francis Boyle Creator Of BioWeapons Act Says Coronavirus Is Biological Warfare Weapon

                                                          While the above article does note “Francis Boyle is a professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law.”

                                                          It fails to mention that his two doctorates are in Law and Philosophy.

                                                          Let’s face it not the kind of doctorates one thinks of when discussing a coronvirus. ;-)

                                                          The bottom line is there is no proof of these allegations!

                                                          The references to other articles (stories) with no evidence or actual studies that do not collaborate the allegations.

                                                          Of course there are many unanswered questions about this outbreak, but not much more than any outbreak anywhere in the world.

                                                          Why is it any different?

                                                          Because China is historically slow to admit anything that isn’t good for China!

                                                          Imagine that! ;-)

                                                        • #138847
                                                          Max
                                                          Keymaster

                                                            The zero hedge article is interesting. Stolen by China then inadvertently released? I read a long article from Unz review that was also interesting.

                                                            There are many escalating conspiracies on this one. It seems that actions by the US and China are a little more extreme than I would expect for another ‘flu’ outbreak.

                                                            I’m always asking myself ‘who benefits?’ Could this be as simple as China steals and weaponizes a virus, and it gets out? Perhaps this is why it is not killing more people, because it was not ‘finished.’

                                                          • #138851
                                                            D Close
                                                            Moderator

                                                              We may never know the origin. One thing that always stuck in my head was the warning: “Watch what they do, not what they say.” Judging by the massive Chinese response and the actions of USG thus far we can conclude that the virus is viewed as a threat. The large area quarantines are serious actions with serious economic and social consequences. The suspension of air traffic out of China is a serious action. The airlines have various reasons for doing so but would not have cut service without good reason. The USG response thus far has been reasonable but non-trivial. The establishment of quarantine areas in the US and evacuation of personnel from Wuhan and other locations is notable. Many of those have been quarantined.
                                                              The statement by Indian virologists of HIV anomalies in the RNA protein sequence is contested and is reportedly not so unique. It gave rise to speculation this was an engineered virus. Jury still out on that.
                                                              The huge response in China with evidence that it is insufficient to contain the spread has serious ramifications for countries with less developed health systems. To Joe’s point above that bio weapons are designed with purpose in mind, this one, wether a weapon or not, has the capacity to overwhelm care systems in less developed countries. A nation with a limited health care capacity will be unable to provide a level of isolation required to stop the spread.
                                                              I do not know the state of China’s care system. We do not know what level of confidence to grade its reported numbers. Given the reported pressure from Beijing, provincial chiefs have incentives to severely react to contain the virus and also suppress uncontrolled information sources, especially if the information casts doubt on the government story.
                                                              I’m watching Joe. If his posts sound like he is already locked in the bunker, that’s my red line. ;-)

                                                            • #138895
                                                              Max
                                                              Keymaster

                                                              • #138928
                                                                Spencer
                                                                Participant

                                                                  That’s a pretty crazy video Max. There’s no way for us to know fact from fiction here, but what is clear is what they would do if they were in power and how they view themselves, and how they view us. Not surprising, but good to be reminded every now and then.

                                                                  DCH 10/2019
                                                                  H.E.A.T. 1 12/2019

                                                                  • #138952
                                                                    Max
                                                                    Keymaster

                                                                      The more of a ‘conspiracy’ it is, in today’s climate, you know you are getting closer to the truth. B-)

                                                                  • #138965
                                                                    billyd
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      From Video above Event 201? or Event 20/1? or Event 1/20? as in January 2020
                                                                      Telegraphing their move?

                                                                      • #139006
                                                                        Max
                                                                        Keymaster

                                                                          Never say never…

                                                                      • #139026
                                                                        Lloyd
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          What do y’all make of this?

                                                                          https://www.zerohedge.com/health/did-chinas-tencent-accidentally-leak-true-terrifying-coronavirus-statistics

                                                                          MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                          Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                          • #139074
                                                                            Max
                                                                            Keymaster

                                                                              I have no problem considering this as a credible report. If it was a weaponized virus escaping? Does anyone believe the Chinese government? Might go further to explain the steps taken by the US to quaranteen.

                                                                          • #139088
                                                                            AntMan
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              Or do we believe Taiwan? Now reports that all the numbers are off by about 10x

                                                                              https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594

                                                                              2xcqbc
                                                                              1xclc

                                                                            • #139122
                                                                              Lloyd
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                As easily transmitted as this appears to be, and with asymptomatic carriers, I can’t see how they can possibly contain it without pretty much locking down ALL travel to/from China, and locking down all known infected and likely infected outside of China, for at least a month or so.

                                                                                This stuff ain’t ebola… On one hand, it appears to “only” have a death rate of something between 1% and 15%, depending on what numbers you believe. On the other hand, a single infected person could potentially infect dozens of other people before they even know they’re sick.

                                                                                I’m no epidemiologist, but I’m pretty sure this one is going to be with us for a while…. Even with a death rate of 1%, that’s going to add up to a lot of dead people, with serious economic and political consequences.

                                                                                MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                              • #139151
                                                                                onegunshort
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  Here is what we know from Missus OneGunShort who is a doctor at a very prestigious instutution:

                                                                                  1) People exposed to the virus are asymptomatic for up to two weeks and can spread the virus.
                                                                                  2) There are few known cases in the USA.
                                                                                  3) Protocols are in place to handle this problem
                                                                                  4) China quarantined a whole province. It’s bad and their numbers are lies.
                                                                                  5) Doctors at this institution thought it was BS until they didn’t. Dr. OneGunShort made a joke about coronavirus on the pizza at the meeting and half the doctors ran to the bathroom to wash their hands.
                                                                                  6) It looks like anti-viral drugs will help, including the HIV post exposure drugs that medical professionals use after getting stuck with a needle.
                                                                                  7) There are no N95 masks available at this time. Be careful with who gets close to you and don’t travel on an airplane.

                                                                                  It this point, in the USA, I think the prudent person should do what everyone here has been saying all along:

                                                                                  1) Get your food and water preps organized
                                                                                  2) Get your kit squared away with enough ammo
                                                                                  3) Get ready to hunker down.

                                                                                  My guess is an epidemic in the USA won’t happen. It’ll have limited scope here and the media will hype it up. Everyone will be glued to the TV and there will be no TP, milk or bread in the stores for a few weeks.

                                                                                  • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by onegunshort.
                                                                                • #139154
                                                                                  onegunshort
                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                    Dr. OneGunShort’s institution has a full viral lab. It can handle something like coronavirus safely and find treatments and a vaccine. I am not sure what they’re doing with it at this time. I will ask and get back.

                                                                                  • #139189
                                                                                    Lloyd
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      1) People exposed to the virus are asymptomatic for up to two weeks and can spread the virus.

                                                                                      This is the one that bothers me the most.

                                                                                      “Protocols” in place to deal with it does not give me warm fuzzies. If it gets loose in the US, with asymptomatic people being infectious for up to 2 weeks, I can’t see how anything less than truly draconian would have any hope of containing it.

                                                                                      Also, because of Chicom obfuscation, I’d guess even officials in the US will not know what the actual death rate is unless/until it breaks loose in a more or less “free country” that will share legit info with officials, even if they don’t share it with the public… And based on our own govt’s tendency toward “managing information” (propaganda), I’m guessing we peons will likely not know those actual numbers until years down the road.

                                                                                      • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by Lloyd.

                                                                                      MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                      Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                                    • #139193
                                                                                      onegunshort
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        They have a test, but it is not a simple litmus test that the man on the street can use. They take a nasal sample and send it to the lab. Quickest turn around time is “hours” if not a full day.

                                                                                        I asked Dr. OneGunShort to get the latest details tomorrow if able.

                                                                                        • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by onegunshort.
                                                                                        • This reply was modified 5 months, 4 weeks ago by onegunshort.
                                                                                      • #139134
                                                                                        wheelsee
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          I’m going to pull a pin and throw this in here.

                                                                                          I’ve already taken care of a known + coronavirus patient – tested positive through a bronchial wash.

                                                                                          Was I concerned? Initially yes. BUT —– the person had NOT been to China nor had had any contact with someone who had. So, what to do?? I dug into my resources (UpToDate – designed for medical personnel) for education.

                                                                                          What did I find??

                                                                                          Coronaviruses were first identified in the 1960s.

                                                                                          You’ve most likely had a coronavirus and probably didn’t realize it. Coronaviruses, rhinoviruses, influenza virus and RSV (respiratory syncytial virus) are found in the community, in the US.

                                                                                          Coronaviruses account for 5-10% of all URIs (upper respiratory infections) in adults. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/coronaviruses/abstract/50

                                                                                          ~ 5% of COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease) patients with exacerbations (worsening) will test positive for HCoV (human coronavirus), about the same rate as influenza. https://www.uptodate.com/contents/coronaviruses/abstract/79

                                                                                          For those with longer memories, MERS (Middle-Eastern Respiratory Syndrome) and SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) were both coronaviruses.

                                                                                          So, what does all this really mean?? I’m on the downstream side (I see patients who have a number of ailments, one of which may/not be HCoV). Can the 2019nCoV (2019 novel coronavirus – the one everyone is talking about) create a problem? Yes, it already has (in China). But the death rate associated with Influenza, in my part of the world, is MUCH higher than that of HCoV, much less the 2019nCoV. (Caveat – I’m NOT down-playing the potential threat, but my world is in dealing with what’s in front of me right now).

                                                                                          The following link gives “Patient” education on HCoV – https://www.uptodate.com/contents/2019-novel-coronavirus-the-basics?search=coronavirus&topicRef=8298&source=see_link

                                                                                          • #139251
                                                                                            Max
                                                                                            Keymaster

                                                                                              OK, but that was a known coronavirus, like you said they have been around. It was not the Wuhan Flu. So it still doesn’t help identifying or clarifying any additional virulence of the Wuhan strain, weaponized, or not etc. Because we are dealing with lying communists, we still can’t confirm the actual numbers of deaths.

                                                                                              Is this a nothing burger? Is this a weaponized virus? We really don’t know, so be alert until more information comes out.

                                                                                              I cannot align the massive international response to this with simple coronavirus. Problem is, we don’t know.

                                                                                              I’m certainly keeping my eye on this.

                                                                                          • #139267
                                                                                            Lloyd
                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                              “more than 400 million people forcibly locked inside their homes for 638 deaths? Just think about that: If there was ever a reason to believe that Beijing is lying about the numbers, this is it.”

                                                                                              https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/more-400-million-people-lockdown-guangzhou-joins-quarantine

                                                                                              MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                              Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                                            • #139284
                                                                                              onegunshort
                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                Doc OneGunShort spoke with a doctor of epidemiology who is professor at her institution. He does not believe this virus was weaponized, but it is possible. I do not have his reasoning but Dr. OGS mentioned that viruses cross species boundaries all the time. This could have happened in the past and we had no idea at the time.

                                                                                              • #139288
                                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                  Why is the 2019-nCoV situation in China different than U.S.?

                                                                                                  The two biggest reasons are population density and airborne pollution.

                                                                                                  If you have never traveled in countries like China and India it is difficult to understand being in locations that make NYC look like a ghost town in comparison.

                                                                                                  Consider these Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Maps of China and the U.S.

                                                                                                  https://aqicn.org/map/china/

                                                                                                  https://aqicn.org/map/usa/

                                                                                                  So what does that really depict?

                                                                                                  Living in China means your respiratory system is compromised.

                                                                                                  How bad depends on your individual resistance to such exposure.

                                                                                                  To put this in more basic terms, if you are a relatively healthy American who smokes a pack a day of cigarettes daily here in the U.S. you still are exposed to less respiratory damage through airborne pollutants than a average non-smoker in China.

                                                                                                  People with respiratory issues have additional vulnerability to 2019-nCoV.

                                                                                                  The combination of population density and pollution changes things dramatically.

                                                                                                  Regarding the Chinese lying about information.

                                                                                                  Imagine that!

                                                                                                  Communist regimes lying?

                                                                                                  I am shocked! :wacko: (sarcasm)

                                                                                                  Socialists and Communists lying. ;-)

                                                                                                  So monitoring this makes sense at this time.

                                                                                                  Now if you have made no attempts at real preparedness then you have cause to worry, but not just about 2019-nCoV.

                                                                                                  If you do not practice a preparedness lifestyle you have literally thousands of threats that should be cause for concern!

                                                                                                  Medications both prescription and over the counter.

                                                                                                  Disinfectants.

                                                                                                  Medical supplies.

                                                                                                  Food storage.

                                                                                                  Money.

                                                                                                  These are just basic items everyone should have on hand for a variety of emergencies.

                                                                                                  In summary don’t ignore this, but the sky isn’t falling yet. ;-)

                                                                                                  Of course if your only preparations involve guns and ammo then your SOL if this proves to be a problem here in the U.S.

                                                                                                • #139314
                                                                                                  wheelsee
                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                    Dang Joe!

                                                                                                    Those are some excellent maps!

                                                                                                    Helps put things into perspective.

                                                                                                  • #139444
                                                                                                    D Close
                                                                                                    Moderator

                                                                                                      Published study in JAMA based on patient sample in Beijing.

                                                                                                      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2761044?guestAccessKey=f61bd430-07d8-4b86-a749-bec05bfffb65&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=020720

                                                                                                      Some of the patients were sick already, some were health care workers. Good info on a small sample in one location. 25% requiring ICU is troubling. One could infer evidence of aerosol transmission from a symptomatic person due to the high number of infections in hospital staff who were presumably using precautions. It would cast some doubt on the latest fatality figures that magically remain at 2.1%. I do not believe any countries in the world have as many ICU beds as this would require.
                                                                                                      The use of anti-viral and antibiotics were ineffective.

                                                                                                    • #139450
                                                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                                        D Close the statistics in China will not be the same here for the reasons I’ve already stated.

                                                                                                        The Chinese environment, both general and in hospitals and even the people bare little representation to those in U.S. rendering any comparisons to be inaccurate.

                                                                                                        Whatever the actual numbers are or how bad this actually ends up being, the Chinese will always experience a greater impact to any of the coronavirus varieties.

                                                                                                      • #139687
                                                                                                        Hessian
                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                          Novel Coronavirus tracking website

                                                                                                          https://wuflu.live/

                                                                                                          Persistence of coronaviruses on inanimate surfaces and its inactivation with biocidal agents
                                                                                                          https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext

                                                                                                        • #139281
                                                                                                          MarkA
                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                            “more than 400 million people forcibly locked inside their homes for 638 deaths? Just think about that: If there was ever a reason to believe that Beijing is lying about the numbers, this is it.”

                                                                                                            https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/more-400-million-people-lockdown-guangzhou-joins-quarantine

                                                                                                            And i think that is where the rubber meets the road Lloyd. Actions speak louder than words. I would say prepare for the worse, but hope for the best. Not saying panic, but be vigilant in your preps. If it turns out to just be the ‘flu’, well then this will have made for a great exercise, take notes and learn where you were deficient in preparedness.

                                                                                                          • #139731
                                                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                            Moderator

                                                                                                              As noted the population density, unhealthy air quality, and water pollution (which has also affected the rice produced) sets up China for increased risk to these outbreaks.

                                                                                                              By comparing reported 2019-nCoV cases in China, all have occurred in areas with these environmental factors. At this point we can not draw specific conclusions beyond this being a contributing factor.

                                                                                                              Deaths related to 2019-nCoV in Hubei province (specifically Wuhan) seem to at a much higher rates than other locations in China. We can imply three possible reasons for this. Either Chinese mitigation efforts are working, data sets are incorrect, or an as yet unidentified factor is involved.

                                                                                                              There is no evidence that 2019-nCoV persistence outside of China is anything but a very low threat.

                                                                                                              We do not know history of 2019-nCoV patient’s outside of Hubei province. Did patient contact 2019-nCoV while traveling or locally?

                                                                                                              The threat of 2019-nCoV here in the U.S. continues to be low.

                                                                                                              Medical and First Responders have somewhat elevated risk.

                                                                                                              With the exception of China, travel OCONUS does not significantly increase your risk anymore than any of the other threats such travel presents.

                                                                                                              I believe it is important to have the ability to to address infectious disease outbreaks in general, but not specifically related to this event.

                                                                                                              Unfortunately it you have never made such preparations it will require greater expense and limited availability of some items.

                                                                                                              Water, food, money, and other preparations in that order. The ability to isolate new arrivals and/or people with symptoms would be a desirable capability.

                                                                                                              We will continue to rationally monitor events for changes to this threat.

                                                                                                            • #139843
                                                                                                              Spencer
                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                An interesting tangent on the Wuhan Flu. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the whole, Fulfilled by Amazon (FBA) thing but the basic model is to buy cheap shit (usually via Alibaba) from China and sell it at a massive profit on Amazon. So not just the legitimate companies sell things on Amazon, there are millions of individuals that decide to become FBA companies, or just an individual running the business out of their house, that sell on Amazon.

                                                                                                                Guess what? All their incoming inventory is now frozen for at least thirty days. The factories that produce the the merch have been shut down and quarantined. I expect a ripple-effect at least where you’ll start to see the Chinese crap out of inventory, at least for a brief time.

                                                                                                                I think it would be awesome if we as a country said to ourselves, huh, that wasn’t so bad, let’s just stop buying stuff from China altogether. I know, dare to dream, but it would be cool.

                                                                                                                DCH 10/2019
                                                                                                                H.E.A.T. 1 12/2019

                                                                                                              • #139870
                                                                                                                Robert Henry
                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                  https://www.ajc.com/news/close-200-georgia-residents-are-being-monitored-for-coronavirus/U343j1oHXVLPD6A2EvRO3I/

                                                                                                                  Cause I trust 200 weak willed people to self quarantine…. What could possibly go wrong!

                                                                                                                  “I just like HAD to have that latte so I left, then I ran into Jules and we talked for an hour then we went shopping and….” :wacko:

                                                                                                                  www.jrhenterprises.com

                                                                                                                  Lost my MVT class list- been here a time or two :)
                                                                                                                  Team Coyote. Rifleman Challenge- Vanguard

                                                                                                                • #139903
                                                                                                                  onegunshort
                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                    Doctor OGS wants to know why people in China are dying, but people stuck on cruise ships, in quarantine, and so forth are mildly affected and are not at serious risk. Why do those who are quarantined on the cruise ships not require hospitalization?

                                                                                                                    Interesting.

                                                                                                                    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by onegunshort.
                                                                                                                  • #139908
                                                                                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                    Moderator

                                                                                                                      Doctor OGS wants to know why people in China are dying, but people stuck on cruise ships, in quarantine, and so forth are mildly affected and are not at serious risk.

                                                                                                                      There is an unknown variable; primarily in Hubei Province, that isn’t present elsewhere. When combined with 2019-nCoV is greater than either in there singular form.

                                                                                                                      This unknown variable which I have speculated be a pre-existing medical condition exacerbated by toxic exposure. This seems more likely.

                                                                                                                      Alternatively if we nosedive into the more tinfoil world of a weaponized viruses.

                                                                                                                      How about a “binary virus?”

                                                                                                                      This highly speculative theory would consist one easily transmitted virus that is fairly innocuous by itself, however when combined with another virus or element that is not easily acquired, hence could be targeted to a specific audience. This seems less likely.

                                                                                                                      Neither of these are the only possibilities.

                                                                                                                      I currently lean towards a pre-existing medical condition exacerbated by toxic exposure, but have insufficient data to prove or rule out at this time.

                                                                                                                    • #139952
                                                                                                                      Max
                                                                                                                      Keymaster
                                                                                                                      • #140031
                                                                                                                        TC
                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                          Daily updates at these YouTube channels:

                                                                                                                          1. Peak Prosperity

                                                                                                                          2. NTD China in Focus

                                                                                                                          3. Dr. John Campbell

                                                                                                                          Takeaways:

                                                                                                                          * China’s been under-reporting cases and deaths by at least 10x.

                                                                                                                          * It’s turning out to be more contagious than initially thought and is now suspected to be fully airborne (not just via sneeze droplets).

                                                                                                                          * Virus can survive on surfaces for over a week, longer if chilled.

                                                                                                                          * Can be spread by infected people for days before they show symptoms (i.e. fever check isn’t enough).

                                                                                                                          * Person needs to be quarantined for 24+ days at least to be in the clear (not the 14 days per current policy).

                                                                                                                          * There are cases of people getting re-infected after recovery (i.e. immunity not guaranteed after first round).

                                                                                                                          * Symptoms generally include fever, muscle aches, fatigue, and cough for about a week, then a temporary improvement, then sudden onset of pneumonia (in a significant minority of cases).

                                                                                                                          * Infects via mouth, nose, and eyes. N95/N100/P100 mask and eye pro required if around the infected.

                                                                                                                          Let’s hope the unique environmental/lifestyle/genetic factors are behind this in China, and that we’ll therefore miss the brunt of it.

                                                                                                                          Note, however, that the first cases started appearing in China back in November, and it took 4-8 weeks for it to escalate into a “big thing” in Wuhan that forced a lock down of society. So, worst case, the low numbers we’re seeing internationally right now are following that same trend with the slow initial build up. We’ll know by early March if that’s the case.

                                                                                                                          With China ground to a halt (and potential for same elsewhere if this gets out of control) it’s worth thinking about the potential impacts on oil/gas supply, food, economy, travel, schools, and medical services (i.e. 95% of our antibiotics being manufactured in China).

                                                                                                                        • #140213
                                                                                                                          Max
                                                                                                                          Keymaster

                                                                                                                          • #140223
                                                                                                                            wheelsee
                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                              The first link is from John Hopkins and lists out the confirmed cases (reported) and deaths, worldwide. Notice that the only deaths confirmed are in China. The resulting death rate is 2.2%.
                                                                                                                              https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR3SXZ8653faLEQCadqRc4EqxBD5H7JyucK73EsNEGK7LF__PfPhrPPHBxk#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

                                                                                                                              The 2nd link is from the CDC and highlights the deaths due to influenza, this season. Go down to the “Key Points” for the summary – notice that 14000 (fourteen THOUSAND) deaths in the US due to flu this season. The resulting death rate from influenza and pneumonia (the breakdown provided by CDC) is over 6%.
                                                                                                                              https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

                                                                                                                            • #140234
                                                                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                                                                …notice that 14000 (fourteen THOUSAND) deaths in the US due to flu this season. The resulting death rate from influenza and pneumonia (the breakdown provided by CDC) is over 6%.

                                                                                                                                Quoted for emphasis.

                                                                                                                              • #140354
                                                                                                                                veritas556
                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                  I think some here are whistling past the graveyard on this one.

                                                                                                                                  Comparing the known “facts” around CoVa with the seasonal flu is folly. You don’t know what the transmission rate is. You don’t know the actual mortality rate. You only “know” what the Chinese authorities are letting you know.

                                                                                                                                  Here’s what we do know for sure…

                                                                                                                                  Nearly the entire country has shut down. Almost zero economic activity. This is by order of the state.

                                                                                                                                  Do you really believe the leadership would purposely tank the economy and risk public revolt over what some of you believe is a lightweight version of the flu?

                                                                                                                                  Their actions indicate they’re scared shitless. And I don’t think the West has fully appreciated what the economic impact on us is going to be like.

                                                                                                                                  • #140360
                                                                                                                                    Max
                                                                                                                                    Keymaster

                                                                                                                                      I think some here are whistling past the graveyard on this one.

                                                                                                                                      Comparing the known “facts” around CoVa with the seasonal flu is folly. You don’t know what the transmission rate is. You don’t know the actual mortality rate. You only “know” what the Chinese authorities are letting you know.

                                                                                                                                      Here’s what we do know for sure…

                                                                                                                                      Nearly the entire country has shut down. Almost zero economic activity. This is by order of the state.

                                                                                                                                      Do you really believe the leadership would purposely tank the economy and risk public revolt over what some of you believe is a lightweight version of the flu?

                                                                                                                                      Their actions indicate they’re scared shitless. And I don’t think the West has fully appreciated what the economic impact on us is going to be like.

                                                                                                                                      Yes. I think that whatever the lethality of this virus turns out to be, the effects we are already seeing in China, perhaps Africa and elsewhere, will have a crippling effect on the world economy. All of our medicine and much else is made in China, and apparently the place is a ghost town right now. I think give this a few months and we may well be in a serious situation.

                                                                                                                                      This needs serious watching. If you watch the Bannon vid I posted above, you can also see where the Chinese / US Army scientist says, without really wanting to admit it, that it is man-altered. To unusual to not be. This doen’t mean it is the new zombie virus, it just means they were playing with it and it escaped.

                                                                                                                                  • #140356
                                                                                                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                    Moderator

                                                                                                                                      You don’t know the actual mortality rate.

                                                                                                                                      I KNOW the mortality rate for 2019-nCoV here in the U.S. is zero!

                                                                                                                                      Outside of China Worldwide there are currently 2 deaths!

                                                                                                                                      I guesstimate that the Chinese numbers could be as high as 10x reported.

                                                                                                                                      Do you really believe the leadership would purposely tank the economy and risk public revolt over what some of you believe is a lightweight version of the flu?

                                                                                                                                      The risk for China is high, but the risk in the U.S. is very low at this time.

                                                                                                                                      And I don’t think the West has fully appreciated what the economic impact on us is going to be like.

                                                                                                                                      We are over 23 Trillion in debt, so we are already on screwed economically! It’s just a matter of when.

                                                                                                                                      So despite the fearmongering there is very little threat here.

                                                                                                                                      China?

                                                                                                                                      Quite frankly I don’t give a shit!

                                                                                                                                      Economically we’ll have to see, regardless our days are numbered anyway.

                                                                                                                                    • #140365
                                                                                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                                                                        Let’s rehash something I already covered…

                                                                                                                                        Now if you have made no attempts at real preparedness then you have cause to worry, but not just about 2019-nCoV.

                                                                                                                                        If you do not practice a preparedness lifestyle you have literally thousands of threats that should be cause for concern!

                                                                                                                                        Medications both prescription and over the counter.

                                                                                                                                        Disinfectants.

                                                                                                                                        Medical supplies.

                                                                                                                                        Food storage.

                                                                                                                                        Money.

                                                                                                                                        These are just basic items everyone should have on hand for a variety of emergencies.

                                                                                                                                        Despite the fact I am not worried about 2019-nCoV at this point, let’s consider another reason a preparedness lifestyle adds a calming assurance for me. I first considered pandemics as a possible threat 30 years ago and actually began to prepare.

                                                                                                                                        Medications both prescription and over the counter, Disinfectants, Medical supplies, and Food storage?

                                                                                                                                        I could lock my gate and hold up at my primary residence for at least a year depending on how many others I bring in.

                                                                                                                                        Money?

                                                                                                                                        As long as Government functions my Retirement continues to be direct deposited, so my bills will be paid. If Government collapses my bills no longer matter.

                                                                                                                                        Additionally I have two stocked relocation options that work in a pandemic scenario giving me another buffer.

                                                                                                                                        This is one of the many values of a preparedness lifestyle.

                                                                                                                                        • #140366
                                                                                                                                          Max
                                                                                                                                          Keymaster

                                                                                                                                            It’s been the policy of MVT from the start (I guess since I wrote Contact) that we don’t prepare for a specific disaster, but for whatever comes our way. I would hope that most of the people here are preparedness minded in some way, to some extent? I know some have it very well locked down, beyond where I could hope to be.

                                                                                                                                            I don’t think we should be ignoring the matter of this virus just because we may or may not be prepared? It is nothing more than developing possibilities that we would be blind to ignore. In fact, for those of us in VA at least, there appear to be multiple incoming threats at this time.

                                                                                                                                        • #140368
                                                                                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                          Moderator

                                                                                                                                            I don’t think we should be ignoring the matter of this virus…

                                                                                                                                            Completely agree!

                                                                                                                                            I encourage all to monitor all threats and plan accordingly.

                                                                                                                                            Never out of fear, but rational evaluation of your individual situation.

                                                                                                                                            I know some have it very well locked down, beyond where I could hope to be.

                                                                                                                                            All should remember it took decades to get where I am in my preparedness lifestyle.

                                                                                                                                            Unless you are rich, a balanced approach is required over the long term and never focusing too much on any particular area of preparedness.

                                                                                                                                          • #140374
                                                                                                                                            veritas556
                                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                                              @Joe I don’t think Americans are going to be walking around with N95 masks in public anytime soon. As a domestic public health concern, coronavirus is probably not going to be a replay of the Spanish Flu.

                                                                                                                                              Bu with all due respect, you may not give a shit about China, but I sure do. So does probably every non-retired worker in America. China is a critical cog in the just-in-time, global supply chain.

                                                                                                                                              IF this thing is as dire for China as is trending, the second-order effects on the global economy could be catastrophic. Unfortunately there’s not much we can do other than watch closely and use this as a good reason to accelerate whatever preps you have planned for a rainy day.

                                                                                                                                              As preparedness-minded people, we’ve all been guilty of underestimating the ability of the financial ringleaders to keep our debt-based charade going. We’ve been saying “any year now” for decades. But what can burn it all down rather quickly – when a half a billion people stop going to work.

                                                                                                                                            • #140381
                                                                                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                                                                                We’ve been saying “any year now” for decades. But what can burn it all down rather quickly – when a half a billion people stop going to work.

                                                                                                                                                One day it will collapse, unless something else happens before. It’s why I prepare.

                                                                                                                                                Remember I prepare to live, I don’t live to prepare.

                                                                                                                                                So does probably every non-retired worker in America.

                                                                                                                                                If this ends up being the “Black Swan” event that brings things down, my Retirement income will be worthless. My preps will be priceless!

                                                                                                                                                China is a potential threat with or without 2019-nCoV. If they go down first maybe they will be less of a threat.

                                                                                                                                                China is a critical cog in the just-in-time, global supply chain.

                                                                                                                                                Everything comes at a price, this shortsighted reliance on China may bite us in the ass. So be it!

                                                                                                                                                As I’ve repeatedly stated since this forum existed and before. Economically, politically, and morally we are already bankrupt. The house of cards will fall one day.

                                                                                                                                                Whether it falls today, tomorrow, or the next decade we have no say in the timing.

                                                                                                                                                So yes I monitor these and other events as I have for my entire life!

                                                                                                                                                We have no say beyond our household!

                                                                                                                                                Collapse or no collapse, my life will continue until it doesn’t.

                                                                                                                                                Do you contend that my situation will improve through fear, worry, or screaming doom and gloom to all who hear?

                                                                                                                                                Take you pick! B-)

                                                                                                                                                …or…

                                                                                                                                                …either works for me! :yes:

                                                                                                                                                “I feel fine!” :yahoo:

                                                                                                                                              • #140592
                                                                                                                                                Max
                                                                                                                                                Keymaster

                                                                                                                                                  ZeroHedge Article:

                                                                                                                                                  Covid-19 Pandemic: The Complacent Are CluelessThe eventual price of substituting magical thinking and survivorship bias for actual evidence will be far higher than the complacent realize.

                                                                                                                                                  Yesterday Fox & Friends had one of their pet female doctors on. She literally said this cannot be passed by direct human contact. How insane.

                                                                                                                                                  Also consider this for a theory: we don’t have to get too far into theories of elite depopulation desired on this one, given that we know that the radical left / elites will do anything to prevent a Trump reelection. We know they want the economy to go bad prior to November in order to reflect badly on Trump and prevent reelection. Releasing a virus from the Lab in Wuhan is going to have the desired effect. We can argue all day about the actual danger of the virus itself but the real danger is the economic effects of the Global economy that America is entirely wired into. Entirely wired into China. That is what I am watching.

                                                                                                                                                • #140735
                                                                                                                                                  Lloyd
                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                    I won’t say it’s “definitive proof”, but it sure looks sketchy:

                                                                                                                                                    https://banned.video/watch?id=5e4d9a96ceaa970024aa6fbf

                                                                                                                                                    MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                                                                                    Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

                                                                                                                                                  • #141213
                                                                                                                                                    DiznNC
                                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                                      Lots of thoughts to mull over here.

                                                                                                                                                      Whether or not this is the BIG ONE, you should be prepping for it. This is the main take-away.

                                                                                                                                                      This could be the next big pandemic and kill a shit-load of people. Or not.

                                                                                                                                                      Pretty much any government you care to name is lying out their ass on a regular basis. China would be one of the worst offenders. So really, we don’t know jack shit about what’s really going on.

                                                                                                                                                      Eventually this whole house of cards is gonna implode. What the trigger event is, who knows. Could it be this? Sure.

                                                                                                                                                      I have been prepping for a long time. I have learned it’s wasted energy to worry about what the fuck is going to happen. Do your best to prepare, then live your life. When it happens, then you deal with it. Some might say this is a little blasé, but after 40+ years, you just kinda get used to the idea that there is real danger in this world, some day you are gonna die, and sitting around frettin’ about it ain’t going to do you any good.

                                                                                                                                                      Get prepared. Stay frosty. And go do your chores. Don’t listen to 99% of the bullshit out there. Forget what they’re saying and look at what’s happening. It’s obviously something serious, so keep an eye on it. But don’t lose your mind.

                                                                                                                                                    • #141744
                                                                                                                                                      JohnnyMac
                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                        Things have moved quickly over the past week. As usual, an awful lot of fear, some of it justified (elderly, people with weak immune systems or poor respiratory health).

                                                                                                                                                        Wash your hands, try not to touch your face/mouth in public, you know the deal.

                                                                                                                                                        KEEP TRAINING

                                                                                                                                                        • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by JohnnyMac.
                                                                                                                                                      • #143268
                                                                                                                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                        Moderator

                                                                                                                                                          Update: I am still more concerned about lightning strikes than than COVID-19. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                          Now hysterical people caught in propaganda hyped fear?

                                                                                                                                                          That certainly concerns me! :yes:

                                                                                                                                                          How about shortages of Chinese products?

                                                                                                                                                          No, but recognize any shortage is shocking to the average American.

                                                                                                                                                          Toilet paper?

                                                                                                                                                          My question is what value is there in having a years supply of toilet paper and a week’s supply of food? :wacko:

                                                                                                                                                        • #143283
                                                                                                                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                          Moderator

                                                                                                                                                            You’re not as smart as I thought.

                                                                                                                                                            We’ll know soon enough. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                          • #143288
                                                                                                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                            Moderator

                                                                                                                                                              I know right now

                                                                                                                                                              I am hurt. (sarcasm)

                                                                                                                                                              Look obviously my interpretation of the available data is obviously different from you.

                                                                                                                                                              So?

                                                                                                                                                              I don’t change my analysis based on groupthink.

                                                                                                                                                              Only time will tell.

                                                                                                                                                              I am prepared regardless!

                                                                                                                                                              I have encouraged others to prepare so when an “Event” occurs they are ready.

                                                                                                                                                              I do not expect people to agree on everything.

                                                                                                                                                              If this is the “Event” I hope you are ready and do well.

                                                                                                                                                              Again we’ll see.

                                                                                                                                                            • #143373
                                                                                                                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                              Moderator

                                                                                                                                                                I’ll do a more detailed post later regarding my analysis of this Coronavirus event.

                                                                                                                                                                Briefly let’s consider this…

                                                                                                                                                                You’re not as smart as I thought.

                                                                                                                                                                Note this isn’t to single out JeffSags, it’s quite evident that some think this regarding my analysis of COVID-19.

                                                                                                                                                                My analysis has been valued in the past, yet suddenly I do not know what I am talking about. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                I’ve gone against the grain before and will most certainly do so again in the future!

                                                                                                                                                                If you disagree or agree is your prerogative!

                                                                                                                                                                I would ask you to consider the following…

                                                                                                                                                                If disagreement evokes an emotional response, your critical thinking is hampered.

                                                                                                                                                                Despite current cultural climate it is possible to disagree without descending into emotional name calling. :-)

                                                                                                                                                              • #143399
                                                                                                                                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                                Moderator

                                                                                                                                                                  Perhaps many can’t see the difference between manipulated and natural multi-level effects.

                                                                                                                                                                  The overreaction to this is the cause, not COVID-19.

                                                                                                                                                                  I guess it doesn’t matter to many.

                                                                                                                                                                  Besides the denier label, the normalcy bias phrase is also being thrown about.

                                                                                                                                                                  I would submit if you have been a member of this forum for at least a couple of years and are not mostly prepared regarding something as basic as food, then it is you who have been living in normalcy bias.

                                                                                                                                                                  I have provided information and guidance on how to prepare yourself for a variety of threats within any budget. So whether living paycheck to paycheck or upper middle class there were options available.

                                                                                                                                                                  I am not alone in this effort to promote preparedness. Robert (jrh enterprises) has always been ready to help people prepare, whether they are a customer or not.

                                                                                                                                                                  Regardless of cause, how bad will things get?

                                                                                                                                                                  Difficult to predict, but understand it could get really bad given the hysteria.

                                                                                                                                                                • #143627
                                                                                                                                                                  milamber
                                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                                    I think this about sums up a smart approach to this possible “event”

                                                                                                                                                                    I know right now

                                                                                                                                                                    I am prepared regardless!

                                                                                                                                                                    I have encouraged others to prepare so when an “Event” occurs they are ready.

                                                                                                                                                                    I do not expect people to agree on everything.

                                                                                                                                                                    If this is the “Event” I hope you are ready and do well.

                                                                                                                                                                    Again we’ll see.

                                                                                                                                                                  • #145848
                                                                                                                                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                                    Moderator

                                                                                                                                                                      Here’s a interesting look at Florida COVID-19 Numbers.

                                                                                                                                                                      How can this be!

                                                                                                                                                                      The day when Florida is projected to have its most coronavirus deaths and will be using peak hospital resources is about two weeks earlier than originally calculated, data shows.

                                                                                                                                                                      The data from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington School of Medicine released last week said the peak date would be May 3.

                                                                                                                                                                      Now the date is April 21.

                                                                                                                                                                      On that day, Florida is projected to see a median of 242 deaths and need more than 2,000 ventilators and about 2,500 ICU beds, which is about 800 short of what is currently available, the data says. The range for number of deaths on April 21 is between 88 and 569.

                                                                                                                                                                      Projections say the state could run out of ICU beds by April 14.

                                                                                                                                                                      The data also shows Florida should have enough hospital beds overall: about 13,000 are projected to be used out of 20,000.

                                                                                                                                                                      The total number of fatalities for Florida through Aug. 4 is about 170 fewer than originally calculated with about 6,800. The range is between 3,600 and 11,200.

                                                                                                                                                                      Remember what I said about “garbage in, garbage out?”

                                                                                                                                                                      Everything in above April 6, 2020 prediction is wrong!

                                                                                                                                                                      From hospital resources to their highly touted predictions is all bullshit!

                                                                                                                                                                      Do you understand yet?

                                                                                                                                                                      Stop being a Useful Idiot!

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                                                                                                                                                                    • #145867
                                                                                                                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                                                                                                                      Moderator

                                                                                                                                                                        Why do Useful Idiots continue to trust “Experts” that are always WRONG?

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                                                                                                                                                                      • #145974
                                                                                                                                                                        Lloyd
                                                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                                                          Lots of good info here –

                                                                                                                                                                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq6oOuhSx7ESreh6m9LGy6Q/videos

                                                                                                                                                                          MVT Texas 2015-2020
                                                                                                                                                                          Team Cowbell / Team Coyote / Team Rekkr

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