Citizen Shooting at Albuquerque, NM “mostly peaceful protest”

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    • #149133
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        This is somewhat interesting.

        Suspected gunman arrested after man is shot at Albuquerque protest

        Excerpts:

        Protesters in Albuquerque wrapped a chain around the neck of a bronze statue and began tugging and chanting, “Tear it down,” shortly before sunset Monday. Their efforts to pull down a monument to Spanish conquistador Juan de Oñate suddenly stopped as four shots rang out.

        So above gives the basic setting.

        The gunshots, which left one man in critical but stable condition, have set off a cascade of public outcry denouncing the shooting and the unregulated militia presence.

        A little bit of propaganda!

        On Tuesday morning, the Albuquerque Police Department announced that detectives had arrested Stephen Ray Baca, 31, in the shooting.

        The alleged shooter.

        The following excerpts will be in quotations so I can highlight certain portions.

        “Baca, who appeared to be protecting the statue and opened fire after people pursued and hit him, was charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and firearm enhancement, according to a criminal complaint.”

        “State leaders have denounced the armed civilian group that gathered in the area (‘civil guard’) — some of its members were arrested, officials said — though the group says it is not affiliated with the shooting suspect.”

        “In the hours leading up to the violence Monday, protesters faced off with members of an armed group of civilians that calls itself the New Mexico Civil Guard and counterprotesters toting “All lives matter” signs.”

        “One group sought to tear down a monument to Oñate, a 16th century despot who massacred indigenous people. The other set out as self-designated protectors of the statue, creating a heavily armed presence at the park in Albuquerque’s historic Old Town.”

        No bias in above excerpt! (sarcasm)

        “Then, a white man (Baca) in a blue T-shirt appeared to rile the crowd, according to video obtained by KOB4. People erupted in shouts, and the man (Baca) took a few steps back.”

        So alleged shooter (Baca) is retreating?

        “The man in the blue shirt, identified as Baca, seemed to be protecting the statue in a bystander’s video, police said in the criminal complaint. An undercover police detective saw protesters pursuing Baca, who (Baca) used pepper spray on the oncoming people, the complaint adds. “The group appeared to maliciously pursue [Baca],” hitting him with their hands and legs, police state.”

        So alleged shooter used nonlethal force after being assaulted as he retreated.

        “In the video obtained by KOB4, a masked protester swung what police identified as a longboard and struck Baca in the shoulder. The man backpedaled out of the crowd but continued to exchange shouts with protesters.”

        Assault on alleged shooter increased to improvised weapons.

        “Someone in the video encouraged people to follow the man and get his license plate number. Several people followed him, and one tackled him (Baca) to the ground.

        So now alleged shooter has been brought to the ground by multiple assailants.

        “According to the complaint, Williams — the gunshot victim, dressed in black — can be seen on bystander video retrieving the board and swinging it toward Baca’s upper body and head. Then, the complaint says, Baca fired several shots. The crowd scattered.”

        After Williams swings a longboard “toward Baca’s upper body and head” (Baca) draws and fires a handgun four times at Williams.

        “In a second video that captured the moments after the shooting, the gunman sat in the middle of a road as the New Mexico Civil Guard members formed a circle around him. One man carrying a semiautomatic rifle and wearing camouflage fatigues and a military-style helmet kicked the handgun away from the man and stood with his foot on the weapon.”

        So the “denounced the armed civilian group (Civil Guard) disarmed the alleged shooter, controlled the alleged handgun, and separated the competing “mostly peaceful protesters!”

        “Police responded to the scene with tear gas and stun grenades to force the crowd back. Officers detained several members of the armed group, according to reporters and witnesses at the scene.”

        So “tear gas and stun grenades” to force the mostly peaceful protesters back?

        “In a Facebook post, New Mexico Civil Guard Curry County denied that the gunman was a member, writing that their affiliates responded to disarm and encircle the gunman and prevent further violence.”

        Of course they are the bad guys?I

        “We are receiving reports about vigilante groups possibly instigating this violence,” Geier said in a statement. “If this is true [we] will be holding them accountable to the fullest extent of the law, including federal hate group designation and prosecution.”

        Never heard of Antifa/BLM types being referred to as vigilante groups? B-)

        I guess he must be referring to those evil “militia?”

        The ones that prevented further violence.

        (sarcasm)

        Note: This is based on linked “Washington Post” article and the limited videos. Seldom is a propaganda piece equipped with all the details to show demonstrate all of its ignorance!

        Interesting to see further developments.

      • #149136
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Reportedly Baca kept his mouth shut to Police, giving that and the video evidence it shouldn’t take much of a Defense Attorney to beat these charges (giving what I’ve seen so far). Though I don’t know NM laws and what other evidence may turn up.

          It’s been alleged that the reason crowd attacks him is related to him assaulting a woman, but haven’t seen any video as yet.

        • #149137
          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
          Moderator

            It’s become all too typical that in a Socialist Stronghold that Police were stood down before shooting.

            We can all imagine the possibilities if some of the Socialist Gun Clubs had been present.

            Just a matter of time I suspect.

          • #149138
            Mike H
            Participant

              I dug into this a bit…seems that the NM milita(NM Civil Guard) has chapters all over the state and they are multi racial/multi culture in nature so the leftists in both government and media are having a dickens of a time framing this. Also the Civil Guard secured the individual and his weapon and stood down when LE moved in. I read after he defended himself the said “attacker” safetied his weapon and sat down. Just defending himself from getting “brained” with a long board. :yes:

              • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Mike H.
            • #149140
              wheelsee
              Participant

                From another view

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              • #149143
                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                Moderator

                  From another view

                  That should be a slamn dunk for the Baca’s defense.

                  Screaming “I am going to kill ya” right before your shot. Kind of hard to disagree with intent in this case. A shame Baca will spend so much money for something that should be dropped.

                • #149145
                  DuaneH
                  Participant

                    I predict more of this.

                  • #149147
                    wheelsee
                    Participant

                      A shame Baca will spend so much money for something that should be dropped.

                      Which is why its so important that one understand their respective states laws. In TX, if one is found not guilty in a defensive shooting, the shooter is also protected against civil case.

                    • #149149
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        I predict more of this.

                        …but much worse.

                        …understand their respective states laws…

                        Definitely, no idea of civil rules in NM, in a Socialist Stronghold prosecutors will try to win at any cost regardless of Laws.

                        The only question is the alleged assault on a woman. In some locals everything that happens would be framed within initial infraction.

                        Everything I’ve seen is pretty much standard self-defense. He tried to retreat (not always necessary), used non-lethal measures against physical assault (laws vary), after multiple attacks with a verbal and physical threat of death and/or grave bodily injury did he shoot the only potential lethal threat, avoiding others who were threatening.

                        Assuming he keeps his mouth shut and gets/has a good lawyer he should be fine, but legal fees will be expensive. Figure $25,000 at the starting point.

                        Of course further Threats of “mostly peaceful protesters” are not beyond possibilities .

                      • #149150
                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                        Moderator

                          New Mexico Uniform Jury Instructions (UJI)

                          NM UJI 14-5183. Self defense; deadly force by defendant.

                          Evidence has been presented that the defendant acted in self defense.

                          The defendant acted in self defense if:

                          1.There was an appearance of immediate danger of death or great bodily harm to the defendant as a result of __________________(illegal act); and

                          2.The defendant was in fact put in fear of immediate death or great bodily harm and __________________(defensive act) because of that fear; and

                          3.The apparent danger would have caused a reasonable person in the same circumstances to act as the defendant did.

                          The burden is on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self defense. If you have a reasonable doubt as to whether the defendant acted in self defense, you must find the defendant not guilty.

                        • #149153
                          DuaneH
                          Participant

                            Well shit. I typed up a 1000 word essay on what I meant by “There will be more of this.”

                            I hit submit and it disappeared.

                          • #149151
                            DuaneH
                            Participant

                              I predict more of this.

                              …but much worse.

                              …understand their respective states laws…

                              Definitely, no idea of civil rules in NM, in a Socialist Stronghold prosecutors will try to win at any cost regardless of Laws.

                              The only question is the alleged assault on a woman. In some locals everything that happens would be framed within initial infraction.

                              Everything I’ve seen is pretty much standard self-defense. He tried to retreat (not always necessary), used non-lethal measures against physical assault (laws vary), after multiple attacks with a verbal and physical threat of death and/or grave bodily injury did he shoot the only potential lethal threat, avoiding others who were threatening.

                              Assuming he keeps his mouth shut and gets/has a good lawyer he should be fine, but legal fees will be expensive. Figure $25,000 at the starting point.

                              Of course further Threats of “mostly peaceful protesters” are not beyond possibilities .

                              What I meant when I said there will be more of this is this: The protestors/rioters/looters/whatever you want to call them have been getting away with their actions. The reasons being is that the politicians are too afraid to act because if one of them takes appropriate action they will be convicted guilty in the court of public opinion.
                              Public opinion has been dictated the the MSM, SJW, and all the other usual suspects.

                              Since they have been getting away with it, the mob (in the Roman Empire context) has become emboldened in their actions. I have seen an escalation of force with protestors over the past 20 years.

                              At some point the mob is going to cross A line. Which you saw in the above video of Baca. I would say he is a fair representation of a large percentage of the population that is willing to act, BUT only when backed in a corner.

                              A large percentage of the American population is sympathetic to the mob. Because they have been told to be by all the usual suspects. What percentage? I dunno, but I don’t think it is anywhere near a majority or significant minority. Also for these sympathetic individuals the riots and unrest are not anywhere near them. They are safe in their upscale suburbs, etc so it is easy for them to be sympathetic. Some of them may even joint the protest, but they hop back in their Prius’ and go back to their Ivory Tower whatevers.

                              Their is also a large percentage of the American that is not sympathetic and a lot like Baca. They are not going to act until they are backed into a corner and have no choice. Who are these Americans? You tell me. Who has been buying massive quantities of guns and ammo since 9-11? Look at how many first time gun owners the current situation(s) have made.

                              So here is what I am predicting: At some point the mob is going to cross A line. I can not even imagine what that line could be. It could be something like a protest in downtown San Antonio, TX (notice I didn’t say Austin), emboldened by the lack of action by the authorities and never had to face reprisals or responsibilities for their actions, decides they are going to go into a neighborhood somewhere to threaten, etc. At this point the good people of said neighborhood being backed into a corner decide to pull the gloves off and meet the attack on their homes/neighborhood with appropriate action.

                              Once that line/tipping point is reached I expect it to spread across the country.

                              I hope it doesn’t get to that and that things calm down and return to “normal” before then because it is not going to be pretty. Every fool out there that is wishing for a confrontation (either side) is definitely a fool. They have never seen civil unrest and fighting before.

                              Study the Revolutionary War. Particularly the day “The shot was heard around the world.” The Colonials woke up that morning not wanting to go to war. They knew good and well what that meant. They were backed into a corner and while it is not 100% known who fired the first shot, the end result was several dead and several more wounded Colonials and no injuries on the Regular soldiers. Needless to say once the word spread, the gloves were off and you should know the rest of the story.

                            • #149156
                              DuaneH
                              Participant

                                So most of America is like Baca. Won’t act until backed into a corner. The mob is getting more and more bold because they have not had any pushback or suffered any consequences.

                                At some point they are going to cross a line. Like marching on a residential neighborhood in San Antonio, TX (notice I didn’t say Austin.) At which point the average Americans (who have been buying guns/ammo since 9/11) are going to feel backed into a corner.

                                Then the gloves come off.

                              • #149157
                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                Moderator

                                  Well shit. I typed up a 1000 word essay on what I meant by “There will be more of this.”

                                  I hit submit and it disappeared.

                                  Found it! :good:

                                • #149158
                                  JohnnyMac
                                  Participant

                                    And the descent continues

                                  • #149162
                                    wheelsee
                                    Participant
                                    • #149163
                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                      Moderator

                                        The ignorant will try to make something out of the fact Williams was fleeing, but from time he hit Baca with longboard to Williams is down is right at 2 seconds.

                                        Baca’s defense team will need a expert witness for that testimony.

                                      • #149164
                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                        Moderator

                                          And the descent continues

                                          A Rasmussen Reports poll released Monday reveals that 34 percent of likely U.S. voters think the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years, but that includes only nine percent who say it is “very likely.”

                                          When divided by party, 40 percent of Republicans said a second civil war was “on the horizon,” while 28 percent of Democrats said the same. Among voters not affiliated with either party, 38 percent see the possibility of a civil war.

                                        • #149170
                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                          Moderator

                                            I just read a Socialist spin on shooting, the “mostly peaceful protesters” were only trying to detain Baca for Police due to his alleged assault of a woman. :wacko:

                                            It may turn out that Baca did assault some woman; I have no idea, but I can say with certainty that Williams screaming “I’ll kill ya!” while swinging longboard was not trying to detain Baca. ;-)

                                          • #149171
                                            First Sergeant
                                            Moderator

                                              He did all he could to keep from having to shoot.

                                              There is one thing that would have prevented this though, I’ll leave that up to the reader to decide for themselves what that was.

                                              FILO
                                              Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                              Je ne regrette rien
                                              In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                            • #149182
                                              Hessian
                                              Participant

                                                It was only a matter of time.

                                                “Militia at violent New Mexico protest linked to white supremacy, domestic terror: mayor”

                                                https://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-mexico-protest/militia-at-violent-new-mexico-protest-linked-to-white-supremacy-domestic-terror-mayor-idUSKBN23N2RL

                                              • #149199
                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                Moderator

                                                  The original linked article “Suspected gunman arrested after man is shot at Albuquerque protest” has been renamed “Former city council candidate arrested after man is shot at New Mexico protest with militia group” and many of the original elements have been removed.

                                                  The removed elements are mainly the ones that paint a picture of self defense.

                                                  Added more hyperbole for propaganda value including mention of the unrelated Air Force Staff Sergeant’s and alleged Boogaloo involvement in the Oakland, CA shooting of two contract DHS security contractors and latter a Deputy Sheriff.

                                                  Also added were a supplemental filing that will incorporate evidence suggesting Baca initiated the violence by “violently throwing a woman to the ground” before protesters pursued him. State police will be taking over the investigation.

                                                  It will be interesting if they have video evidence of this “violently throwing a woman to the ground” and if they don’t, why?

                                                  I suspect he probably did push someone, but without complete context as to what’s the whole story there. I also suspect this “push” will be far less violent than the attack Baca endured, but we’ll see.

                                                  I have no doubt they will attempt to find and/or create evidence to convict Baca.

                                                  My favorite new quote from this repurposed propaganda article:

                                                  Violence has been an occasional feature of the demonstrations across the country since the police killing of Floyd last month — though the majority of protests have been peaceful.

                                                  :wacko:

                                                • #149205
                                                  SeanT
                                                  Keymaster

                                                    He did all he could to keep from having to shoot.

                                                    There is one thing that would have prevented this though, I’ll leave that up to the reader to decide for themselves what that was.

                                                    Can I play?
                                                    NOT FUCKING BE THERE?

                                                  • #149206
                                                    SeanT
                                                    Keymaster

                                                      It will be interesting if they have video evidence of this “violently throwing a woman to the ground” and if they don’t, why?

                                                      I saw a very short twitter posted video that purported to be the shooter and the woman encounter. What happened before is not well seen , but the guy in the video close-lined the woman pretty hard.

                                                    • #149212
                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                      Moderator

                                                        I saw a very short twitter posted video that purported to be the shooter and the woman encounter. What happened before is not well seen , but the guy in the video close-lined the woman pretty hard.

                                                        I haven’t really tried to find it, figured it would turn up if available.

                                                        Eventuality; assuming we aren’t all otherwise engaged, we’ll find out the context.

                                                        I almost want to laugh at the NM Governor’s comments about “civil guards” purpose was to intimidate protesters.

                                                        If that was their purpose then they did a shitty job! In at least one video a “civil guard” and “peaceful protester” were practically wrestling over a rifle. With guy yelling to stop grabbing his weapon. :wacko:

                                                      • #149225
                                                        trailman
                                                        Participant

                                                          There IS video out there of him apparently knocking some chick down at the beginning of this.

                                                        • #149226
                                                          trailman
                                                          Participant

                                                          • #149237
                                                            wheelsee
                                                            Participant
                                                            • #149251
                                                              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                              Moderator

                                                                Yea this isn’t over yet.

                                                              • #149253
                                                                hellokitty
                                                                Participant

                                                                  Baca is a hispanic name. He is not white. Maybe he just wants to orotect his spanish heritage. 🤷‍♂️

                                                                  HEAT 1(CTT) X 3
                                                                  HEAT 2 (CP) X1
                                                                  FOF X3
                                                                  OPFOR X2
                                                                  CLC X2
                                                                  RIFLEMAN

                                                                • #149254
                                                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                  Moderator

                                                                    Baca is a hispanic name.

                                                                    Since he’s a Republican then the Socialists will consider him a white Hispanic just like George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin shooting.

                                                                  • #149256
                                                                    trailman
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      According to the DA dropped for now because the police have done an incomplete investigation… Wonderful contrast to how the media treats their chosen ones https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/brooklyn-molotov-lawyers-protests/index.html

                                                                      Yeah Interesting description of the perps.

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