Chechen Long Range Patrol Operations

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    • #110084
      tango
      Participant

        So surfing the interwebz I came across this picture:

        from this article:

        SOCHI SITREP (by Guest Writer Groz)

        Googling around does not give me much information at all. Niche subject?
        Lack of remaining LRP knowledge? Curiousity leads me to ask what types of LRP operations the Chechens did, how far, how long, any particular techniques, TTP’s basically. However, I suspect some of our Cadre may know something about this? Anything we can learn? History lesson?
        @firstsergeant
        @maxvelocity

      • #110085
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Here is Thread discussing Chechen tactics in Grozny.

          THE TWO SIDES OF GROZNY

        • #110086
          dnb
          Participant

            Know they can be a bunch of killers and are a hard people. Which is not a bad characteristic depending on precedence. Google the dagestan.

            Also, religion is a science unto itself but still perpetual… Even in Russia the father of smack down. Find: russia jehovah.

            Religion seems to be a strategy, along with the evolving definitions.

          • #110087
            tango
            Participant

              The Grozny pdf was a very interesting read. Thanks Joe. Lots of info on MOUT and ambush tactics in there.

              What about the long range patrolling though?

            • #110088
              Joe (G.W.N.S.)
              Moderator

                What about the long range patrolling though?

                If you are looking for Chechen specific I can look and see what if anything is available, but I think they relied on their local assets rather than the more traditional LRRP/LRS that US used.

                First Sergeant was LRS as well as some of our other members were also if they would like to add their take.

              • #110089
                tango
                Participant

                  Yes, Chechen specific. The point of this thread was to ask people like First Sergeant, who I know has LRS background, to hopefully shed some light on what the Chechens did in similar fashion.

                  It is understood they had popular public support and a great local intelligence network in the cities, but I’m trying to learn specifically about the LRP stuff going on in the mountainous regions.

                • #110090
                  Thomas
                  Participant

                    I am not trying to offend you but try reading books. A world of knowledge awaits you at your local library. Or simply google search the topic.

                    EDITED TO ADD:

                    Tango, I extend to you my sincere apology. There are moments when I am simply a dick.

                  • #110091
                    Marksmanm76
                    Participant

                      Look…. I’m new to this forum And I don’t know what your background is but there is no reason to be a complete jackass when someone is asking a specific question directed at the resident experts on the topic. Tango clearly stated that he didn’t find much data on Chechen LRP on the net and brought the topic up here. Let the Moderators decide if the topic has merit or not.

                      Also, I go to the largest university in my state (GA) and I have yet to find any volumes that contain practical information on tactics/resistance/etc.. in the whole of the school’s library system (seven different campus libraries plus archives).

                      Further, What a pedantic way to predicate any statement, “I am not trying to offend you but “, are you kidding….. Either bring valuable information to the table or STFU.

                    • #110092
                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                      Moderator

                        …trying to learn specifically about the LRP stuff going on in the mountainous regions.

                        I haven’t found any OSINT to suggest they ever conducted anything similar in the way of LRS operations. This doesn’t mean they didn’t do any reconnaissance, but was more basic verification of previous data just prior to their attack.

                        I will keep a lookout for something.

                      • #110093
                        tango
                        Participant

                          Thanks Joe. Hopefully First Sergeant chimes in.

                        • #110094
                          Thomas
                          Participant

                            The attached link is from the Russian perspective and does not address long range reconnaissance. However, the inference is that, as a guerilla force, the Chechens are masters of their terrain and limit the need for long range patrol operations because they operate on familiar terrain. The article does discuss the use of heavy reconnaissance in preparation for military action against Russian forces.
                            http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/chechinsurgtact.htm

                            This is a master’s thesis from the Naval Post-Graduate School that looks at Chechen swarm techniques. The qualitative assessment is that the Chechens had excellent ISR capabilities which stems from, among other things, excellent reconnaissance. The USMC looked at countering the swarm attack through the use of LRP activities. This is a long read and requires some understanding of analysis techniques to pull out answers to Tango’s direct questions.
                            http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a483607.pdf

                            In this article, the author interviews Chechen commanders about operations against Russian forces. They interview addresses ISR beginning on page 23. Again, this is geared more toward development of HUMINT networks and surveillance than to long range patrolling. Patrolling is discussed in the context of preparation for troop movement.
                            http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/davidgoliath.pdf

                            The articles above reference the use of significant patrolling and knowledge about the country as it is used by Chechen forces. As a guerilla force, the command structure would rely heavily on local knowledge and detailed reconnaissance of a specific area of operations. The need for long range patrolling would be significantly reduced in military operations. I can not find anything on the order of battle of the Chechen military so can not determine what their LRSU structure might be. However, I did find some information on Chechen special forces and their employment.

                            This does not directly address Tango’s specific questions. However, the inference is that long range patrolling or the use of LRSU forces is not prevalent in the Chechen military.

                          • #110095
                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                            Moderator

                              …Chechen swarm techniques.

                              Swarm Tactics is something I’ve been reviewing and studying recently.

                            • #110096
                              First Sergeant
                              Moderator

                                Just got back from class. Give me a day to get caught up.

                                I read this article when it first came out. More to follow.

                                FILO
                                Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                Je ne regrette rien
                                In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                              • #110097
                                First Sergeant
                                Moderator

                                  As Thomas said in his last post, there is not a lot of information available about Chechen long range patrols.

                                  The most that I have read about it in one place was the article that you posted in the OP. I read it when it first came out and tried to find more info about it. I found nothing.

                                  As indicated in the article and Thomas also said it’s more about the mastery of the terrain and being true guerilla fighters more than anything else.

                                  As far as TTP’s from the Chechens, most of their doctrine is derived from Russian doctrine. A lot of them previously served in the Russian military.

                                  One thing to remember about Chechens, they are true believers. They have no problems getting into a fight and staying until it is finished. But they use guerilla tactics to make sure the odds are in there favor. They have been in Iraq, Afghanistan and are currently in Syria.

                                  The title “Long Range Patrol” can be deceptive. The LRP, LRRP and Ranger units from the Vietnam war had a different mission than the LRS units that were activated in the mid ’80’s.

                                  I served in two Long Range Surveillance Companies. A LRSC is a Corps asset. Our mission was to go 150-200 kilometers behind enemy lines and conduct reconnaissance. It wasn’t about getting into gunfights. That was to be avoided.

                                  @Tango, hope that answers some of your questions.

                                  FILO
                                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                  Je ne regrette rien
                                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                • #110098
                                  tango
                                  Participant

                                    @marksmanm76 Cheers

                                    @Thomas Solid turn around and good post. Lots of info to dive into there. Thank you.

                                    @firstsergeant Still a bit curious, although my guess is whatever goes on in the Caucasus mountain system doesn’t often make it to print. Your post does help, thank you.

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