9 U.S. Women, Children Murdered by Cartel Gunmen near New Mexico Border

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    • #126383
      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
      Moderator

        NARCO-TERROR: 9 U.S. Women, Children Murdered by Cartel Gunmen near New Mexico Border

        EXcerpt:

        A group of cartel gunmen ambushed and murdered three women and six children near a rural Mormon community in Mexico, close to the New Mexico border. Six more children, all from the same family, were also injured. One additional girl remains missing. Relatives stated that all of the victims are dual U.S. and Mexican citizens.

        UPDATE
        Initial reports from the family said 12 members were killed. Over night, the number of dead adjusted to 10. Alfonso Durazo, Mexico’s Public Security Secretary, announced Tuesday morning that the death toll stands at three women and six children. Another six children were injured and one more remains missing as of Tuesday morning.

        Yes, it would be easy to say they shouldn’t have been down there, still tragic.

        Mexico Declines President Trump’s Offer for ‘War’ Against Cartels

        Excerpt:

        During his morning press conference, Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (AMLO) said war is the worst way to deal with cartels and that those who have lived it, know it. The statement came in response to a series of tweets by President Donald Trump, stating that the U.S. was ready to go to “war” upon invitation.

      • #126389
        RobRoy
        Participant

          A few years ago the SEALs assisted in making a movie about SEALs and a major plot point was a team going into Mexico thru a tunnel at the border to take out a Islamic terr who was going to infiltrate his crew and their super suicide vests at the Mex border. Then there is the movie Sicario which this time it was Delta going sneaky thru a tunnel and giving love to a couple of Mexs who got in the way. Point being I would bet good fiat dollars that the border is already lit up by SOCOM types.

        • #126397
          Andrew
          Participant

            I’m sure we could find enough Hispanic folks in the Special Warfare community to stir up some major problems down there, but there would be no end to the diplomatic problems if they got busted.

            edit: Don’t know what, if any relationship, might be, but there has been an uptick in the number of weapons found by the Border Patrol in human smuggling cases. Agent got shot at last night on the west side of El Paso and fired back killing the smuggler who shot at him.

            • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  Andrew.
          • #126532
            RobRoy
            Participant

              Mexico is coming North, with guns. I’ve told numerous lefties numerous times that gun control is basically moot because of the open border, but per usual the average lefty voter is so parochial as to make a celibate sequestered monk seem a world traveled sage. Sucks for those people, I do hope we get some boots on the ground intel from that region. It was reported that they were in a “three car convoy”, but of course that is incomplete info, but that piqued my interest. I say that because I have said that the Afrikaners in South Africa should at times travel in convoy and that some day in the future Americans will need to as well. Then I have also read reports that these squeaky clean law abiding mormons had applied for firearms permits and of course the corrupt local officials gave that info to the local gangs.

              But good news when Mexico arrives on our doorsteps we can take care of the “Woke” tyrants.

            • #126537
              Max
              Keymaster

                Good Lord, that is tragic.

                I saw an interview with a relative on Fox this morning. He was saying something about initial reports being wrong. It was not the flat-tire care that was hit. He said they had done that bit, then they were driving in a three vehicle convoy but the vehicle that was hit was some way behind. Then apparently it was ambushed cartel members closes with the vehicle, spent cases were near the vehicle, stuff was taken such as a check book found up the road, then it was set on fire with everyone inside.

                Not sure how the rest of them got involved and hot as well. It all seems very unclear. As initial reports usually are. The guy said something about a cartel war in the area. I would honestly not be surprised if this was a case of mistaken identity, the attackers thinking that this 3 vehicle convoy was an enemy cartel.

                Route selection, IPB, Intel. Why the fuck where they there?

              • #126547
                Max
                Keymaster
                • #126548
                  RobRoy
                  Participant
                  • #126563
                    AntMan
                    Participant

                      The media can’t decide whether the fact that they were mormons outweighs the tragedy…

                      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/slain-u-s-citizens-were-part-mormon-offshoot-sordid-history-n1076776

                      While we need to learn as much as we can from the past, it is getting ridiculous how people should be held accountable for the sins of their (great to great great?) grandparents

                      2xcqbc
                      1xclc

                      • #126575
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          So basically these beautiful white kids will now be written of ‘cuz mormon’ and ‘cuz dual nationality.’

                          If I was king for the day, the 82nd is getting dropped in.

                      • #126577
                        Max
                        Keymaster

                          Given the apparent history of conflict with the cartels, these guys made basic schoolboy errors in terms of:

                          1) route selection vs threat assessment.
                          2) no males / shooters with convoy – and prob not trained either.

                          Not to say they would not have been badly shot up if they had rolled into an ambush anyway, but perhaps they could have established a base of fire if it is true that one of the vehicles was mainly targeted, and prevented the cartel closing with the vehicle and burning it. Hiw mucch of an actual ambush was it? Where was their recce car and CAT chase vehicle?

                          IPB is their massive issue.

                          • #126578
                            Max
                            Keymaster

                              What was the range of the ambush? How was the vehicle stopped? Was the female driver hit, thus stopping the vehicle(s)? Was it an ambush or just guys shooting? Did they try and run a vehicle stop with a road guy? What prevented the vehicle speeding up and through? Occupants need to be trained to debus if the vehicle is stopped in the kill zone, opposite side, and take cover. Having a body guard in the vehicle would have helped, even if the driver was hit. Having a CAT team would have helped.

                              • #126579
                                Max
                                Keymaster

                                  And if these guys had money, living there, they should have invested in armored vehicles. Do they want a security survey and training?

                            • #126580
                              Max
                              Keymaster

                                People are already starting to write this off as weirdos living in Mexico, polygamist weirdo mormon cult. So it’s ok if these white kids and babies are shot and burned to death. To justify their own moral cowardice.

                                • #126584
                                  Hessian
                                  Participant

                                    My prior post was just giving some background on how a group of white mormons ended up down there. I think overall its very confusing to the general american public. Most initially people believed it was american tourists getting gunned down by the cartels.

                                    This angers me just as much as the Boar situation in SA. Its complete BS that the media is trying to down play this event.

                                • #126605
                                  Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                  Moderator

                                    I will conduct an analysis once I have sufficient information. Please post anything you find, even rumor type info, as always just label it accordingly.

                                    People are already starting to write this off as weirdos living in Mexico, polygamist weirdo mormon cult. So it’s ok if these white kids and babies are shot and burned to death. To justify their own moral cowardice.

                                    This is related to a comment about I recently made and is similar to why many were not bothered by the attack on Branch Davidians in Waco.

                                    If someone chooses a lifestyle unacceptable to the norm then it can be denied as not their problem or even blamed on victims.

                                    Because if you truly know, yet do nothing then you are an accessory to this evil!

                                    No one wants to accept that truth!

                                    Then we have those of us who at least strongly suspect this truth, yet do nothing.

                                    We hide behind various excuses and justifications for our inaction, but in reality have no moral superiority to those in denial.

                                    In fact it would be easy to make the case that we that suspect this evil are far worse, since our inaction is a result of our selfish interests vice ignorance.

                                    I wish I had a valid excuse, but there is none.

                                    Again people will go to great lengths…

                                    To justify their own moral cowardice.

                                  • #126619
                                    Max
                                    Keymaster

                                      Does anyone recall the ‘pirate’ thread I had where I was pontificating on the idea of finding a failed state, and going there to act against insurgents and carve out a liberty zone?

                                      Occurs to me that what we have here with this mormon sect is not so far different. They went there for religious rather than liberty reasons, and they appear to have been acting purely in self-defense rather than conducting operations against ‘bad guys.’

                                      Interesting that Mexico is a failed state and we have been worried about an inundation into the US. But how soon until the US is a failed state?

                                      Now I am sure that to be part of that group you have to be a mormon etc, so I’m not suggesting anyone goes to join that group etc. But if you think about it they went to Mexico so they could be fundamentalist against polygamy laws and all that. So they sought refuge from the US. Is there merit in seeking refuge from the US in an autonomous enclave in Mexico? For rightful liberty purposes as the US tyrannizes? No weapons in Mexico except…yeah….and apparently this sect is well armed (according to the interview excerpt).

                                      So, what if (bear with me as I extrapolate) a group of Libertists set up in Mexico, with the aim of actively opposing cartel activity in their area? How would the corrupt Mexican authorities react? Would this be helping them or would they be paid by the cartels to use Mexican Marines against the enclave etc?

                                      It’s an interesting mental exercise.

                                    • #126622
                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                      Moderator

                                        Does anyone recall the ‘pirate’ thread I had where I was pontificating on the idea of finding a failed state, and going there to act against insurgents and carve out a liberty zone?

                                        Occurs to me that what we have here with this mormon sect is not so far different. They went there for religious rather than liberty reasons, and they appear to have been acting purely in self-defense rather than conducting operations against ‘bad guys.’

                                        Certainly part of that discussion and the act of filling a vacuum.

                                        So, what if (bear with me as I extrapolate) a group of Libertists set up in Mexico, with the aim of actively opposing cartel activity in their area?

                                        I think the biggest problem would be addressing the narrative of “white gringos” depending on demographic of Libertists.

                                        A possible solution would be ensuring the public face is Hispanic in at least appearance.

                                        The initial elements being covert in nature, with operations against cartels to build a war/bribery fund.

                                        How would the corrupt Mexican authorities react?

                                        Unless able to meet the bribes they are used to I expect any upset to established norms would be problematic.

                                        Of course the violent reaction by cartels to the covert targeting could be used to promote the view of Libertists as the lesser evil.

                                        Area stability and reduced violence against locals could make this possible.

                                        Ultimately much would depend on creating a sufficient force for the public unveiling to be defensible.

                                        Much could be done with small-scale covert operations to fund further development.

                                        Certainly wouldn’t be a boring endeavor! ;-)

                                        It’s an interesting mental exercise.

                                        :yes:

                                      • #126673
                                        AntMan
                                        Participant

                                          I think the biggest problem would be addressing the narrative of “white gringos” depending on demographic of Libertists.

                                          A possible solution would be ensuring the public face is Hispanic in at least appearance.

                                          The initial elements being covert in nature, with operations against cartels to build a war/bribery fund.

                                          While I think the media would try to run with this, have you seen Canelo Alvarez, etc. Mexican nationals are a very diverse group between the influx of Irish, Mormons and everyone else who got mixed in there.

                                          2xcqbc
                                          1xclc

                                        • #126678
                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                          Moderator

                                            Mexican nationals are a very diverse group between the influx of Irish, Mormons and everyone else who got mixed in there.

                                            I’ve spent time in Mexico, though it’s been quite awhile.

                                            This would have nothing to do with facts, but the propaganda battle!

                                            Everyone who opposed such an operation would try to paint it as a racist imperialist invasion and if Trump was still in office, possibly a covert U.S. Government operation. ;-)

                                            To ignore this component to such an operation, would doom it to failure.

                                          • #126730
                                            Robert Henry
                                            Participant

                                              People are already starting to write this off as weirdos living in Mexico, polygamist weirdo mormon cult. So it’s ok if these white kids and babies are shot and burned to death. To justify their own moral cowardice.

                                              The “white” part really has a lot to do with it. Every week we hear of attacks on white people by “groups of youths” (double speak for a gang of blacks) and nothing is ever said about it. All that is setting the stage from the media.

                                              www.jrhenterprises.com

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                                            • #126748
                                              ctpelok
                                              Participant

                                                The link provided is a short documentary about the Mormon settlements in Mexico, the Lebaron family history there, and Mitt Romney ties. After watching the documentary, it makes it clear there is much more to this tragedy. I cannot say why the convoy was attacked, but certainly this documentary is informative about history of the Lebaron family and the cartels going at it.

                                                Team Rekkr

                                              • #126753
                                                Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                Moderator

                                                  That video is good background information, I have watched it before.

                                                • #126773
                                                  Andrew
                                                  Participant

                                                    The “white” part MIGHT have something to do with it these days. But, you can bet someone will stir the pot with Gringo, Anglo, and Imperialists. Most people have been fed that stuff since childhood.

                                                    I can see where a reaction to any perceived incursion by the US (overt or covert) might see responses in California. The “Reconquista” idea is alive and well.

                                                  • #126774
                                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                    Moderator

                                                      I can see where a reaction to any perceived incursion by the US (overt or covert) might see responses in California.

                                                      I agree, however that wouldn’t factor into my decision. In fact I would readily trade California for most of Northern Mexico. ;-)

                                                      The “Reconquista” idea is alive and well.

                                                      Yes it is!

                                                      Though I would caution the La Raza types to beware of what you wish for. B-)

                                                    • #126775
                                                      Max
                                                      Keymaster

                                                        Any Intel on how this attack actually went down?

                                                      • #126784
                                                        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                        Moderator

                                                          Any Intel on how this attack actually went down?

                                                          Still looking for real details.

                                                          I could post a very basic timeline, but not the kind of details I or I believe you are looking for.

                                                          Will keep looking and as I already posted I encourage everyone to help.

                                                        • #126790
                                                          Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                          Moderator

                                                            U.S. children who survived Mexico cartel ambush were saved by mothers’ actions, boy’s 14-mile walk

                                                            Excerpt:

                                                            GALEANA, Mexico (AP) — The eight children, some mere infants, who survived the ambush in northern Mexico not only escaped the drug cartel gunmen who killed their mothers but managed to hide in the brush, with some walking miles to get help despite grisly bullet wounds.

                                                            In a testament to a mother’s devotion, one woman reportedly stashed her baby on the floor of her Suburban and got out of the vehicle, waving her arms to show the gunmen she wasn’t a threat. She may have moved away from the vehicle to distract their attention; her bullet-ridden body was found about 15 yards away from the SUV.

                                                            The five wounded children were seriously enough injured that Mexican authorities flew them to the border in a military helicopter to receive hospital care in the United States. Sonora state health officials said they were “stable” at the moment of transfer. Three other children who were not wounded are in the care of family members in the tiny hamlet of La Mora in northern Mexico.

                                                            But what the children went through in the remote, mountainous area of Sonora state is nearly indescribable.

                                                            Kendra Miller, a relative, said in an account of the shootings that Devin Blake Langford, 13, was one of the few uninjured young people and quickly took charge, eventually walking about 14 miles back to La Mora for help.

                                                            “After witnessing his mother and brothers being shot dead, Devin hid his six other siblings in the bushes and covered them with branches to keep them safe while he went for help,” according to the account. “When he took too long to return, his 9-year-old sister left the remaining five to try again.”

                                                            That girl, Mckenzie Rayne Langford, walked for hours in the dark before she was found several hours after the other children were rescued. She was listed as missing for a while.

                                                            Altogether, the kids were on their own from about 1 p.m., when the ambush began, until about 7:30 p.m., when they were rescued. Relatives from La Mora tried to reach them before that, but were turned back by gunfire. The area is the site of a cartel turf war.

                                                            In recordings of calls between the rescuers, they can be heard debating whether it was better to risk more lives, or wait for an hour or two until Mexican army troops arrived. It was an agonizing decision.

                                                            What they saw when they found the children was terrifying.

                                                            Cody Greyson Langford, 8, had been shot in the jaw and bled profusely. Another girl had been shot in the foot and the back.

                                                            The killers were apparently members of the Juarez drug cartel and its armed wing, La Linea — “The Line” — whose gunmen had entered Sinaloa cartel territory and set up an armed outpost on a hilltop and an ambush further up the road. The Juarez cartel apparently wanted to send a message that it controlled the road into Chihuahua. It was this invasion force that the American mothers and their three vehicles drove into.

                                                            The five wounded children were seriously enough injured that Mexican authorities flew them to the border in a military helicopter to receive hospital care in the United States. Sonora state health officials said they were “stable” at the moment of transfer. Three other children who were not wounded are in the care of family members in the tiny hamlet of La Mora in northern Mexico.


                                                            blood stained baby’s car seat

                                                          • #126829
                                                            rampantraptor
                                                            Participant

                                                              Does anyone recall the ‘pirate’ thread I had where I was pontificating on the idea of finding a failed state, and going there to act against insurgents and carve out a liberty zone?

                                                              Occurs to me that what we have here with this mormon sect is not so far different. They went there for religious rather than liberty reasons, and they appear to have been acting purely in self-defense rather than conducting operations against ‘bad guys.’

                                                              Interesting that Mexico is a failed state and we have been worried about an inundation into the US. But how soon until the US is a failed state?

                                                              So, what if (bear with me as I extrapolate) a group of Libertists set up in Mexico, with the aim of actively opposing cartel activity in their area? How would the corrupt Mexican authorities react? Would this be helping them or would they be paid by the cartels to use Mexican Marines against the enclave etc?

                                                              It’s an interesting mental exercise.

                                                              The only way it would work would be with local buy-in. Libertists identify a sympathetic native Mexican group, then go to advise and assist, like a freelance SF mission, though the libertists would probably also want political cadres as well to help advise the political administration of an autonomous zone.

                                                              The Autodefensas already have existed but the corruption is so bad that you never know if you’re just empowering the next cartel and they have never showed much proclivity towards actual political action. That and the cartels themselves could very well chop up your family back home while you play Green Beret in Mexico.

                                                              Definitely would be fun if it happened, I have a weakness for brown chicks anyways lmao.

                                                            • #126831
                                                              Max
                                                              Keymaster

                                                                That and the cartels themselves could very well chop up your family back home while you play Green Beret in Mexico.

                                                                Already considered. Families would have to be protected in a central defensive area either in the US as stay behind, or in Mexico as per the Mormon Colonia’s.

                                                                Hardly playing Green Beret, as this would not be FID from US Govt to a foreign power, but an investment into a Libertist autonomous zone.

                                                                Given the bullshit talked about the Mormon Colonia’s, I’m half of a mind to go down there and join them. They don’t appear to be practising polygamy anymore. Seem like great Americans, living the ‘collapse life’ already. Coming to a town near you soon!

                                                              • #126853
                                                                rampantraptor
                                                                Participant

                                                                  So…Anybody know the politics of Mormons in Mexico, they pro-liberty? lol

                                                                  I know this wouldn’t be FID, really wouldn’t be much different than what us foreign volunteers did for Rojava, another “liberty zone”, though they already had their own organized administration and forces before foreigners showed up.

                                                                  Be aware that if you wind up engaging state forces you can find yourself in violation of the Neutrality Act. In the olden days American groups fighting in other countries’ wars were known as filibusters, there were enough diplomatic stinks that they passed a law, because passing laws always fixes things. Not that I think the government should tell me what I can and cannot do if I’m not fighting the US government but something to be aware of. (Notes for that Constitutional Convention? ;-) ) If there were a liberty zone established in Mexico the state would want to do something to save face, look at the history of the Zapatistas, nevermind corrupt cops or military.

                                                                  Might be a bitch getting personnel and supplies across when the wall goes up though, just saying. (Just kidding FBI agents surveilling me, anyone reading this don’t break any federal laws.)

                                                                  I’m honestly still amazed that there isn’t a movement to open up gun laws in Mexico considering the violence citizens face in Mexico from criminals. Really is a scary look at how pacified a population can become, also coming soon to a town near you!

                                                                • #127101
                                                                  AntMan
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Because obviously gun laws are the problem. If we didnt have the evil US providing m249s and assorted weaponry that is easily available in the US to the cartels, mexico would be a peaceful paradise…

                                                                    ^^this is sarcasm for the record. We need to add a head desk smiley.

                                                                    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/08/mexico-homicides-rising-us-arms-weapon-choice/2522384001/

                                                                    2xcqbc
                                                                    1xclc

                                                                  • #127146
                                                                    dave37
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      The idea of creating an autonomous zone is very tempting and intriguing. My first thought is that it would never work. First, you have the fact that the cartels want to control the border area, and will fight to do so. Second, you have the Mexican government, such as it is, which rememberers what happened the last time a group of armed gringos set up shop on their territory. Third, you have the US government probably against you, since it is not at all pro liberty.

                                                                      That said, clearly the Mormons are making it work, at least to some degree. So it is possible.

                                                                      My thoughts:

                                                                      Location, location, location. You would want to choose an area that isn’t particularly important, so that it would not be worth fighting for. Border areas that include smuggling areas are important to the cartels, so that would be out. Areas with natural resources are important to the Mexican government. Perhaps the Copper Canyon area? From what I have read, it’s almost impenetrable to outsiders.

                                                                      Trigger pulling is probably the least important ingredient in success here. Money and political influence are going to be way more important. You are potentially up against some very deep pockets here – two national governments and the cartels. Furthermore, the less wealthy an area is, the less you will have to fight to take control of it (as noted above); therefore, you would need outside financing.

                                                                      You also need the political clout to keep the Feds and the Mexican Army off your back. In the case of the latter, that may just once again be about money, but it is probably more complex than that to get the US Govt to leave you alone.

                                                                      Having noted the above, I think that is why the Mormons are at least partially successful in setting up their own autonomous zone down there. Given the size and power of LDS in the US, they have the financial and political power to make it a go down there. And they have been working on it for a long time. Anybody who wants to do the same had better be prepared to play the long game.

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                                                                    • #127154
                                                                      Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                      Moderator

                                                                        …be about money…

                                                                        In the short run to do something like this, several hundred million on the low side.

                                                                        Fortunately there are mostly untraceable dollars in the billions available. ;-)

                                                                        Covertly as long as possible and turning cartels against each other through disinformation. Perhaps seeding raid sites with an occasional fresh opposition cartel member body among other methods.

                                                                        Things would get real messy before anything resembling order could be established.

                                                                        Fun hypothetical, scary reality. :yes:

                                                                        • #127185
                                                                          AntMan
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            :good: there are a lot of things that become possible with a few hundred million dollars lol.

                                                                            2xcqbc
                                                                            1xclc

                                                                        • #127164
                                                                          arealcorker
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            That video is good background information, I have watched it before.

                                                                            While some of the information in this video is correct. He did not do enough basic journalism to get all of his facts straight. He just lumps all “Mormons” in together and assumes it is so. Well it is not! The main difference is these people living in Chihuahua are an off shoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Often referred to as “Mormons” or LDS for short. This Group is what is know as The Church of the First born or Mormon fundamentalist’s group. While it is true that in the late 1800’s a small group of people fled the States for religious persecution because they were practicing polygamy and it was made illegal. It was latter abandoned but these groups stayed and choose to do their own thing and are not affiliated in any shape or form from the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It doesn’t matter what their religious beliefs were it just pisses me off that the media automatically labels them Mormon. Do you here the media refer to other Americans when something bad happens to them by their religious beliefs first. Oh they were Baptists, protestants, catholic, Adventists etc. This is a tragedy and should not have happened. I hope Trump labels the Cartels as a terrorist’s organization and starts bombing the Hell out of them.

                                                                          • #127167
                                                                            Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                                                            Moderator

                                                                              It doesn’t matter what their religious beliefs were…

                                                                              If course not, the somewhat unique beliefs combined with the “blood feud” make for a sensational twist too juicy for a reporter to pass up.

                                                                              For me the value of that video was in establishing the deep roots they have in that area and previous cartel involvement.

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