23-26 Aug HEAT1 Observations

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    • #61972
      First Sergeant
      Moderator

        Seeing some recurring themes at class.

        Lube – Stop using Frog Lube. We don’t call it Frog Glue for nothing. Anything that requires you to do some hocus pocus crap to get the lube to work isn’t worth the time or aggravation. Don’t use grease either.

        Blue Loctite is your friend. The were several instances of either BUIS or magnifiers falling off of rifles. This not only happened on the square range but on the tactical ranges also. Anything that you have mounted on your rifle that has screws need to have blue Loctite to keep them in place.

        Broken Redot’s- There was a SIG Romeo5 in class. It decided to stop working on the morning of Day 1 on the square range. I told the student that I was not surprised. SIG’s redot’s are made in China. I don’t think SIG has admitted that yet. While it may seem like a good deal for the price, don’t. Especially on a gun that you are going to bet your life on. Another student had a spare Aimpoint T1. No issues with that.

        Gas Rings- Another PSA rifle showed it’s true colors during the class. With less than 1400 rounds through the rifle, it became a bolt action. The gas rings were completely worn. It failed the gas ring test very quickly. The book answer on gas rings is that they should last about 5000 rounds. I have AR’s that have way more than that and the gas rings are still good. Contrary to popular belief, not all parts are created equal and there is no such thing as “just as good as”. What is your life worth?

        FILO
        Signal Out, Can You Identify
        Je ne regrette rien
        In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

      • #61973
        Joe (G.W.N.S.)
        Moderator

          Great information!

          Pay attention to this kind of lessons learned, it can save your life.

          Contrary to popular belief, not all parts are created equal and there is no such thing as “just as good as”. What is your life worth?

          Let that sink in, we aren’t talking 3 gun games where poor choices mean a bad score.

          Imagine this happening when not only your life is at stake, but your loved ones!

        • #61974
          A_A_Ron2guns
          Participant

            I feel like these same issues always pop up and as instructors you’re constantly saying the same thing BEFORE class. I suppose everyone just has to learn at their own pace.

            If you’re planning on taking a class read the recommendations before you show up. You’ll spend more time learning and less time going “ohh fuck.”

          • #61975
            wheelsee
            Participant

              I feel like these same issues always pop up and as instructors you’re constantly saying the same thing BEFORE class. I suppose everyone just has to learn at their own pace.

              Because in most people, there’s a bit in the brain saying “can’t happen to me”. Think of the various calls you’ve made where you just wanna say “they did WHAT??” Same concept.

              If humans truly learned from the experiences of others, our species would be light-years ahead of where we are today…… :yes:

            • #61976
              DuaneH
              Participant

                If it makes you feel better i have been seeing these issues at every class including appleseeds.

                1sg should put together a mandatory read prior to class.

                But like someone said sometimes people have to learn the hard way and better in class than in real life.

              • #61977
                First Sergeant
                Moderator

                  I feel like these same issues always pop up and as instructors you’re constantly saying the same thing BEFORE class. I suppose everyone just has to learn at their own pace.

                  If you’re planning on taking a class read the recommendations before you show up. You’ll spend more time learning and less time going “ohh fuck.”

                  I hear ya.

                  Now I just expect it to happen. I look at all the rifles on the mats before any firing is done. I look at all the roll marks, sight manufacturers and to see who has what attached to their rifles. That gives me a good idea of who will probably have issues.

                  If it makes you feel better i have been seeing these issues at every class including appleseeds.

                  1sg should put together a mandatory read prior to class.

                  But like someone said sometimes people have to learn the hard way and better in class than in real life.

                  Very, very few would read it. Even fewer would heed the advice.

                  Max and I joked that we were going to make all classes Colt AR’s only. Everything else would be banned.

                  FILO
                  Signal Out, Can You Identify
                  Je ne regrette rien
                  In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                • #61978
                  Robert
                  Participant

                    Guys- even us enlightened AK types lubricate our guns. I would hope those using the delicate little muffins would be wise enough to lubricate them properly ;)

                    Listen to 1stSgt on this stuff folks, it might save your life one day. And who TH wants to take time off of work, plunk down hard earned money for training and then mess around with their rifle when they should be learning anyways??

                    In short, it’s IN YOUR BEST INTERESTS to pay attention to this stuff.

                  • #61979
                    First Sergeant
                    Moderator

                      Guys- even us enlightened AK types lubricate our guns. I would hope those using the delicate little muffins would be wise enough to lubricate them properly ;)

                      Delicate little muffins?

                      That’s it, you are specifically prohibited from using AK’s at any MVT class from here on out. That goes for James also. ;-)

                      FILO
                      Signal Out, Can You Identify
                      Je ne regrette rien
                      In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                    • #61980
                      Robert
                      Participant

                        LMAO!

                        I was already told by Max one time after a CTT run and he was giving the side eye at the AK- “You know, your the only reason I haven’t banned that fricking commie gun from class!” I consider that a mark of honor LMAO

                        And I may let my AK go a few thousand rounds without a good cleaning, I would never do that with our AR’s- I’m listening 1stSargent!!!

                      • #61981
                        A_A_Ron2guns
                        Participant

                          Ive seen more than a few dead desert dwellers with jammed up AKs. Not that it would have done them any good anyway.

                          I’ll say this, never heard someone complain about what they were getting shot at with.

                        • #61982
                          wheelsee
                          Participant

                            I’ll say this, never heard someone complain about what they were getting shot at with.

                            Good point……..never heard any caliber discussions (by patients) in the box, the helo, or the trauma bay…….plenty by those attending….more along the lines of surprise of what the result was or wasn’t…..

                          • #61983
                            First Sergeant
                            Moderator

                              LMAO!

                              I was already told by Max one time after a CTT run and he was giving the side eye at the AK- “You know, your the only reason I haven’t banned that fricking commie gun from class!” I consider that a mark of honor LMAO

                              And I may let my AK go a few thousand rounds without a good cleaning, I would never do that with our AR’s- I’m listening 1stSargent!!!

                              A few thousand rounds?

                              Guess when was the last time I cleaned my AR.

                              FILO
                              Signal Out, Can You Identify
                              Je ne regrette rien
                              In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                            • #61984
                              texas
                              Participant

                                Last class in Texas I was in (’17) I ran my DD the entire class without cleaning. Just drops of oil on the carrier to keep it wet.

                                I used Mobile 1 as wanted personal testing of this lubricant. I had Slip2000 as a backup (and that is what I *normally* run) but it was not required.

                                The last little twist was that I ran a suppressor the entire class as well. This was to put the rifle in the ‘worst’ possible condition and see how things went.

                                I can report that I had ZERO issues.

                              • #61985
                                Robert
                                Participant

                                  LMAO!

                                  I was already told by Max one time after a CTT run and he was giving the side eye at the AK- “You know, your the only reason I haven’t banned that fricking commie gun from class!” I consider that a mark of honor LMAO

                                  And I may let my AK go a few thousand rounds without a good cleaning, I would never do that with our AR’s- I’m listening 1stSargent!!!

                                  A few thousand rounds?

                                  Guess when was the last time I cleaned my AR.

                                  Given my experience with the platform, I’m really trying to be a good little boy this time, follow (most) of the instructions from people in the know like you, clean it regularly, use all the recommended stuff, etc. I did that on the 2nd Colt and it didn’t work out for me, but maybe it will on try #3. We are cleaning the AR’s I would say on average about every 400 rounds or so. This weekend J and I will go down and spend an afternoon at the range shooting them to get ready for CQB, they will definitely be cleaned well before the class. I would say it’s only been a couple hundred rounds since last cleaning at this point. I always check the chamber area, that was always my kryptonite- no matter how I cleaned every couple hundred I got an empty round stuck in chamber which would a death sentence in real life- hard as hell to clear. So that chamber to me is Numero Uno to keep as nice as possible. Using the EWL cleaner in there every time, then lubricating it as well as the rest really well. So far so good, I mean it’s no miracle of Slavic engineering or anything ;-)

                                • #61986
                                  Robert
                                  Participant

                                    Ive seen more than a few dead desert dwellers with jammed up AKs. Not that it would have done them any good anyway.

                                    I’ll say this, never heard someone complain about what they were getting shot at with.

                                    “Danny. Danny, the bolt’s open, it’s jammed. Danny…. (waves hand in front of face).”

                                    “Sprechen ze Duetch? Habla Englis?”
                                    “So what if he does, you don’t.”
                                    “What is this? Who’s coming after us? Where are they?”

                                  • #61987
                                    Joe (G.W.N.S.)
                                    Moderator

                                      Robert don’t take the sacred movie experience in vain! ;-)

                                      I miss the simplicity of that time.

                                      Few remember just how much the Left screamed over that movie, of course they feared the term Socialist as much as Communist back then.

                                      How times have changed. :yes:

                                    • #61988
                                      RobRoy
                                      Participant

                                        Any Frankengun issues?

                                      • #61989
                                        First Sergeant
                                        Moderator

                                          @Robert – I told the HEAT1 class a fib. I said it had 4000 rounds through it since I had cleaned it.

                                          Didn’t do it on purpose, I should have looked at the log book for my AR before I said anything.

                                          I looked at it when I got home to update it. It has just a little over 6000 rounds through it since I last cleaned it. I just add a little SLIP2000 to it each time before I shoot and use a barber’s brush to clean the dust off of the outside.

                                          FILO
                                          Signal Out, Can You Identify
                                          Je ne regrette rien
                                          In Orbe Terrum Non Visi

                                        • #61990
                                          DuaneH
                                          Participant

                                            Any Frankengun issues?

                                            I will share mine.

                                            Statistically I have had a good success rate with my franken-ars. I built them at my own kitchen table (not my mom’s basement).

                                            They started as Palmetto State Armory complete uppers to which I built the lowers and then modded the upper with free float tubes.

                                            I even ran one at tactical response for 3 days (approx 2K rounds) w/o cleaning just some drops of oil.

                                            I got more adventurous and built and ultra lightweight ar with a magnesium upper and lower, titanium parts and carbon fiber handguard. It weighed in at 4.5 pounds with BUIS and I ran it in the Rifleman Challenge, and earlier in CRCD. No problems.

                                            I got more bold and built an even more Franken-AR using a Spike’s Tactical Optimum profile barrel and I even drilled and reamed the pins for the front sight base.

                                            Took it to CTT and I began having double feeds. At first I thought mags which were PSA mags bought during the lean years, but then it happened so often I couldn’t blame the mags. I reverted back to the ultralight magnesium AR and finished the class.

                                            Took the rifle home and played around with it and best guess is that the gas port hole was too big and it was over-gassed. I added an H3 buffer and it worked fine. That didn’t matter to me, I took the rifle apart and gave the parts away with a caution.

                                            Next step was to buy a Colt AR.

                                            There are plenty of ARs available now so nobody has an excuse to franken ar.

                                          • #61991
                                            TC
                                            Participant

                                              Broken Redot’s-

                                              I had one fail during the CQBC class in 2017. It was an early Meprolight Trudot RDS. Dot went out on the first day during live fire drills. It did it once before at a range, and always comes back on after a couple shots. Recently my Steiner OTAL IR laser had a similar problem.

                                              What both devices have in common is an AA battery co-axial with bore, with similar looking screw on battery caps where the positive terminal of the battery is pressed up against a flat metal surface of the cap. Very small surface area of contact. After wiping the terminals and putting cap back on, it was fine. Energizer Lithium battery in both cases.

                                              Not sure if it’s galvanic corrosion, oxidation, condensation of chemicals gassed off by internal electronics or what, but I’ve now included this wiping procedure in my maintenance schedule and will stick with CR2032 for my RDS’s. I replaced the Mepro with an Aimpoint Micro and it’s been problem free so far.

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