Banning Chinese Made Web Gear

Gear Video: Chris Demo’s the MVT VERSA Chest Rig
August 21, 2016
Student Review: Defensive Concealed Handgun August 2016: Bryan
August 23, 2016

As a result of comments I see about:

1) the price of quality USA made web gear, which includes MVT Gear, and,

2) recommnedations to buy cheap and poor quality Chinese made shite,

I am now introducing a policy where I am banning the use of any Chinese made web equipment at MVT classes.

You can’t call yourself a Patriot and at the same time spend all your money on your China-Mart shite, while complaining about the cost of 100% quality USA made gear.

Buy something decent from a USA manufacturer. MVT Gear is included in that; you will get excellent high quality gear that will perform under the stress of real training and operations.

I continue to be perplexed by the type who proclaim themselves ‘Patriots,’ but expect everything to be cheap, because it comes from China, and will not support American companies.

Do not show up in your Condor or Voodoo or whatever rig. Basically, if you do, you support communism.

How about you help MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

BFYTW.

61 Comments

  1. James says:

    Then if you buy ANYTHING, you support communism. There’s no rational distinction between LBE made in China, and anything else made in China. If the average American bought only domestic products (or even non-Chinese products), they’d go broke. Should I buy a lesser car that will cost twice as much, or LBE that costs three times as much, etc, just so it can be from the US?

    • Max says:

      Yes. Problem?

      Why you love Chinese Web gear so much? So cheap, will love you long time. Till fall apart.

      Godless commie.

      Plus, my car is a Ford. Maybe it has something Chinese in it, but we have to do what we can. Basically, you are equating Web gear with the whole econonmy, and coming here to what is known as a high quality training and gear blog, and trying to justify the purchase of cheap crap. What gives? You love that shit so much?

    • Bergmann says:

      You’re maybe taking it personal. No need for that. You must be a Condor fan or be kitted out on the Chi-Com cheap…? I get money can be tight these days but being poor in no excuse to sell yourself short w/ kit that you’ll need to depend on..

      As for buying American and going broke, that’s not so. I shop at the second hand stores and find plenty of clothing and kit made in the USA and its a fraction of the cost of shopping at Walmart of cheap garbage.. Many wont shop at such places because of foolish pride.

      If folks cut out more WANTS and aimed for more NEEDS they wouldn’t be broke chasing shit they think the have to have.

      Bergmann

    • Jeffsags says:

      “If the average American bought only domestic products…they’d go broke.”

      Nope, they’d just have less stuff.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

      • Max says:

        Amazing isn’t it. People don’t know what they do. To merely suggest that an American have less cheap Chinese shite, and people are losing their minds! Wow.

  2. G.W.N.S. says:

    The solution for those on a tight budget is not airsoft quality gear, but surplus gear.

    There is a wide variety available with most of it far more reasonable than cheap knockoffs. Particularly in ACU pattern, which can be fixed for your AO with some spray paint.

    Not to mention closeouts and sales that come up frequently in the higher end markets.

    If you think airsoft gear holds up, you aren’t training enough.

  3. Craig says:

    James should read up on how China has literally copied every product known to man, ignoring every copyright law on earth, which has caused Billions if not Trillions of lost $$ in just about every country’s economy on earth. And they make shit. To even try to defend ANY Chinese product is just stupid. China is the world’s economic leach. It’s not Japan or Korea. Buying Toyota is NOT the same as buying Chinese knock offs. STFU James.

    • Matt D says:

      Older government issue is still well made and can be less expensive. Buy nice or buy twice.

      • Max says:

        “Buy nice or buy twice.” – a better suggestion, unless you are on a starvation budget: spend the money on well designed commercial gear that will function a lot better than most of the surplus military gear that is out there. For example, MVT gear being well designed for the armed citizen, with kydex magazine pouches, etc. Gear such as MVT was designed to allow us to have BETTER gear than the military issues, due to disatisfaction with such gear.

        Perhaps give up wasting money a few times at crappy fast food places, or whatever, and invest wisely in gear? Functional gear is VITAL, and may well save your life.

  4. Bergmann says:

    I see loads of vids with ppl toting Condor and other airsoft grade garbage as actual hammer drop kit. In 99.9% of them its quiet evident by the clean, kept, pristine nature of these rigs and by the ridiculous packing inventory that they have never put them to real use.

    If I ever showed up, Id be in PLCE webbing.. If i was turned away Id throw a huge fuking rock at you.

    But I think its the duty of everyone not to feed the dragon intentionally. Sometimes you just cannot get around it, but there are ways.

    Bergmann

  5. RampantRaptor says:

    I will admit that I check out the airsoft sites for kicks because of the wide selection, but much of it isn’t much cheaper than what you can find on a budget on the surplus sites and you can see how reliable it is (or isn’t) based on reviews. Most of the stuff I have right now is stuff I’ve found online at surplus sites or at thrift shops. Probably the only new stuff I have is my boots (I got myself some Danners based on the advice of a retired 11B I know) and a 3-day pack from LA Police Gear, based on good feedback I heard in the forums. (Insert MVT Forum sales pitch here.) The new backpack replaced an uncomfortable Fieldline Tactical pack from Wal-Mart I’ll probably repurpose into a bug-out bag for the car. Right now I have an enhanced LBV I picked up for five bucks at a thrift shop (yay me), not the greatest but better than nothing.

    Probably a silly question, but does Chinese military surplus fall under this category? I recall Bergmann discussing a cheap Chinese AK rig for a client on a budget a while back, I’d assume even their military surplus would have a bit more quality than the stuff made for the civvie airsoft market. And obviously buy American once the opportunity and budget permits it.

    Regarding the ACU stuff, UCP is a shit pattern but I’ve seen some really intriguing results from Rit dyeing them, whether it be web gear, uniforms, whatever, might be something worth considering along with Krylon spray paint. Something definitely worth considering, especially as it’s phased out by the Army and floods the surplus market.

    • Max says:

      Whether knock off or surplus, Chicom is still Chicom. With quality available elsewhere, why buy it?

    • Bergmann says:

      Probably a silly question, but does Chinese military surplus fall under this category? I recall Bergmann discussing a cheap Chinese AK rig for a client on a budget a while back, I’d assume even their military surplus would have a bit more quality than the ..

      ——

      Just got this in. It will hold Magpul 40round M4 magazines w/o cramming it in or stretching..And of course it will hold Ak type mags too.. This is the Type 81 Assault rifle 4 cell mag rig. Not to be confused with the type65 Ak47 3 cell rig..

      http://forum.maxvelocitytactical.com/forums/topic/chinese-type-81-chest-rig/

      —-

      Yes, I got it for the Evader series as a prop. I thought it be of use to someone because it holds 40rnd M4 mags. I stand by that but mostly because its rare to find anything that will hold a compliment of 40rnd mags. It IS better quality than air squirt garbage. This is just a fact.

      Would I use it? Sure, I would. Would I use it if I had other choices and options. No. It be my last grab but Id grab it before Id grab some air squirt garbage. Its primitive, abnormal and irregular to me, but its been tested by the test of time and is withstanding. This is just fact too.

      Even on a budget you have to make choices and IMO surplus is usually surplus quality and not the same as the air squirt garbage deliberately aimed at children and the unknowing. You do what you have to do, but even at the bottom there are still choices even if they are the lesser of two evils.

      This is my opinion and has nothing to do with Max’s choice for a ban Chi-Com at his classes. That’s his choice, his business and his prerogative. It does not effect me in any way other then posting on a blog post.

      However, back east ppl would show up with Chinese junk like rucks and air squirt rigs. Id cringe and hang my head shaking it side to side, thinking NOT AGAIN. I saw it fail time and time again. Buckles break and snaps pop off and kit was lost. Seams and stitches fail at a catastrophic level causing chaos. Always right at the most inconvenient moments too.. And no matter how many times you’d tell ppl- they wouldn’t listen and would buy pile of shit- after pile of shit-after pile of shit because they were attracted by how much fantasy they got for their money rather then thinking about what they were really buying…

      Bergmann

  6. jw says:

    ?
    Captain’s Blog:
    Star Date: 12 Nov 2013
    Can I trade it in towards MVT gear?

  7. Bill says:

    Before bragging about owning a Ford better check on what the Ford Company invests in, supports and donates to. Last week it was announced that the Ford Motor Company donated 100 million American dollars to Black Lives Matter.

    • Max says:

      Hardly bragging. Focus, this is about Chinese made web gear. There is only so far my agenda for world domination can go, one piece at a time.

  8. Jason Howe says:

    I feel a bit ashamed to say my battle belt is a condor. Anyone have a better domestic option. Thanks. But I do have a Versa Rig and a bunch of Karrimor ruck gear. Hopefully that keeps me out of the doghouse.

  9. Jason Howe says:

    I forgot, I have an MVT shield as well. SNAP!

  10. HiDesertRat says:

    As Chinese stuff is so commie and cheap, I was wondering if you are intending to name some of your popup targets something other than Ivan to reflect on your new doctrine?
    Equal opportunity and fairness for all.

  11. Evan says:

    I buy a lot of surplus. I just bought the new army issue Tactical Assault Panel (TAP). It’s great gear and the army is starting to catch up to what the civilian tactical market is doing. You can run it as a chest rig or hook it to a plate hanger by fast tech buckles. It’s very modular. I like it for my line infantry job I have now. When I was LRS, I ran a standard USMC fighting load carrier FLC. I liked it because of the color, but it’s the same as the army version. While laying in the prone for extended periods of time I could unzip it and be more comfortable. I ran tactical assault gear pouches on it as well. All of it was American made. All of it was easily affordable. There is no reason whatsoever to buy that junk. I wouldn’t trust my life with it.

    • Max says:

      Except mag retention in the TAP is horrific with those button tabs. Better off upgrading the concept with an MVT 556 patrol rig, which uses kydex retention and has silent admin pouches available, and will also clip to your PC. There is a reason we design this gear as we do.

    • Max says:

      Wait, what, what? You mean you don’t have a forum membership to go and read the article? You with your fake email address and hate filled comments.

      I’m amazed at the vitriol that nut jobs like you will direct at me, simply to defend your choice to use crap Chicom gear. Wow.

      You don’t have to be on this site, it is clearly not for you, you add no value, you are wasting people’s time. Please just crawl back under your rock. No one cares.

    • Evan says:

      They have velcro on the TAP I have. I do believe a bungee cord system would be better though. I run it because the SGMs won’t bitch about it not being issue.

      • Max says:

        Just velcro or the combination of velcro tabs and the little metal buttons to fully secure it? Getting away from velcro has been one of our main efforts, which is why you see the tuck tab admin pouches. Getting away from velcro and also the hard to use one-handed pull tabs is why we have gone fully to kydex for mag pouches.

        I can’t do anything about your SGM. Mostly our gear is aimed at armed citizens who don’t have to deal with such stupidities.

    • Evan says:

      Max your awesome for replying so quickly. I do like kydex inserts. I’ll see what the SGMs say about non issue gear. One of my SGM was in 2/75 in the 80s he’s fairly lax on gear. As long as it works and is quality gear. We just got off AT and he was bitching about the same thing. Guys wearing junk gear.

  12. Roadkill says:

    There’s an old saying; buy nice or buy twice. I’ve bought crap stuff before, it just doesn’t pay. I’ll somehow cobble something together until I save up and can buy the good stuff. As it is I still have a box of crap ready for the trash burner from where I didn’t heed my own advice.

  13. wheelsee says:

    In your experience, and those of similar, what is a good belt?? I have a SpecOp rigger belt but don’t really like the threading as I would like to set it up then be able to use a good buckle (such as the cobra).

    I’ve looked at the VTAC cobra rigger (without V ring), Tactical Tailor cobra rigger (has V ring), HSGI cobra rigger (without V ring), and Blackhawk military.

    Does anyone have any experience with the list or maybe another?? What did you like, not like??

    • Max says:

      I have the HSGI Battle Belt. It’s their newer, lighter version. I did check, and they tell me it is 100% made in the USA.

  14. Diz says:

    Hoo boy. Here we go again. Guys I will say with all honesty, if that’s all I had, in a real grid-down sit, I’d run it. But I will also say, there is so much more available, that I’d be hard-pressed not to find something better.

    We live in the US. If you’re talking about some African or Asian shit-hole, sure, maybe that’s all you could find- who knows. But we don’t. We have choices. Lots of choices. Even the poorest among us can afford good used surplus (at least) over chi-com gear.

    When I first got out of the Corps, my wife and I made just over twenty grand combined. That’s fucking poor. But I had a CAR-15 and USGI surplus kit. So I will state with all sincerity that practically anyone can own an AR and surplus kit IF you are willing to forego other comfort items. That’s the fucking problem; where your priorities are, not the price point of US made gear.

    Again if I was some poor fucker in Africa and some competing tribe decided to genocide my ass out, I’d get my hands on whatever I could find. It might be what I took off the first fucker I killed. If it was some POS AK and a chi-com chest rig, that’s what I’d run.

    Now you and I both know we are so far removed from that scenario, yet some guys insist on using that quality level of gear.

    Again, if you live in the US, you can afford an AR and at least surplus USGI gear. And truth be known, probably a lot more than that, IF you were willing to get rid of your toys and other shit.

    That being said, then you have MVT training and kit. If you are really serious about preparing for uncertain times, you would be getting good training, good weapons, and good gear, in that order. You would be selling off those expensive toys (cars, trucks, entertainment systems, jewelry, etc.) and getting what you might need to survive.

    Good training: MVT alumni, check.

    Good weapons: Plenty here on the forums (I personally wrote a bunch of it). Go read it.
    Good combat ready set-up, check.

    Good kit: MVT gear, check. If you have trained with us, you understand why we use what we use. Beyond the bare minimums, there are things you can do to enhance your capabilities. Like changing or plus-ing up mags in your rig. When you see and understand these things, then you realize why MVT gear works better than surplus (and even other Gucci) gear. Then you see why it is value-added and worth the cost.

    If you are not training and ignorant of why our kit makes sense, because it WORKS so much better, then you might be tempted to buy as cheap as you can.

    And I haven’t even mentioned the political factor, which is the Chinese basically suck, but that’s another issue.

    Wherever I go, I usually visit surplus stores, junk stores, etc, just to see what I can find. You would be hard-pressed not to be able to get your hands on some good USGI kit. And with just a little planning, you could hit a gunshow and find a shit-load more stuff. Not ACU crap but good OCP stuff. Not to mention ebay.

    So I see no reason for anybody to be using cheap-ass Chinese shit. Yeah they copy the good stuff, and make it in all the Gucci camo patterns, but it’s just dressed up crap. I would not bet my ass on it, if there was anything else available.

  15. Jon beaty says:

    I make average $1000- $1500 a month working from home while being a stay at home dad and I still find a way to afford American made gear. All my chest gear and battle belt and gear is hsgi. And my packs are tactical tailor.
    Really no excuse. If you really cared and are serious you will find a way.
    Buying new does not have to be your only option either. Their are a plethora of online tactical gear trading and selling groups. Most of which only slow high end gear to be sold or traded.
    So I totally agree with max on this.

  16. Diomedes says:

    If I wear my Chi-com gear under American gear, it that ok? What if I only load the chi-com gear with steel tips in the mags?
    ……..goes downstairs and does pull-ups…..

    It’s Max’s site, Max’s Rules. Why on gods earth does anyone else have the right to an opinion? I mean seriously. Who cares. Just STFU and deal with it.

    • Max says:

      But I do enjoy throwing the grenades and watching the retards break cover….I mean who in their right mind wants to try and justify cheap Chicom crap over good US Made gear? It’s a madness. These are the same types who won’t join the forum for $25 per year, or even consider coming to training anyway. So no one here loses. Notice how they only come out of the woodwork for a blog post about gear…says it all really.

      The reality is that although I discourage Chicom shite, and urge people to support fellow Americans, I know 2 things will happen:

      1) I’m not going to actually inspect gear at class and,

      2) even if I did update the web pages for classes to include this ban, no one actually reads that shite before showing up anyway.

      And particulalry dedicated to that sliver of the WRSA commentariat who are cheap-ass pseudo-Patriots with shitty gear and no training.

      😉

  17. HiDesertRat says:

    I thought you might include some of the ‘other commies’ besides Ivan, as you are going after commie junk. That big country to the east of Ivans’, so some of the popups might need a different name, ie Genghis or Hop-sing some other common tag. Was a tongue in cheek comment, not a declaration of war.

  18. ZoonORama says:

    Not to keep this thread going, and I get the whole “buy American” thing but before you make such strong statements, make sure you know the country of origin for the cloth, buckes and kydex that go into the “American” products. Chances are very high that the materials used in making those products comes from China anyhow. That being said, some foreign made gear works great where other stuff is just crap. It really depends on the gear you want and what you can spend. I don’t berate others that can’t afford a $2000 rifle when a mil-spec $650 will get the job done.

  19. Max says:

    Amazing to watch the fallout from a post such as this, how it gets people going, just about gear. Barely any comments routinely on the standard solid tactical articles, but when I feel strongly enough to comment on gear it brings all sorts out of the woodwork.

    For example, I have the VRR disparaging my intent and motives on FaceBook, and for some reason feeling the need to defend cheap crappy Chinese gear (WHY?) – these are the same guys who can’t be bothered coming to the VTC, from Central Virginia, for a class, and told me that (‘It’s too far, our guys can’t be bothered.”). So stick with your Chinese gear, what difference does it make to anyone involved with MVT – you are not adding value.

    Here at MVT we are for the serious armed citizen, those who are absolutely about getting the right training, weapons and gear. Anyone watching the blog/forum will have noticed that change, to focus on the serious ones. Why anyone cares what I think about their cheap crappy web gear when they are never coming to training anyway, doesn’t make sense. Those who train, do, and we all know who we are.

    Carry on!

  20. Owl21 says:

    Some 8-10 years ago another respected trainer made a similar rant about cheap gear. He offered a simple test. Don your full kit with plates, loaded mags, ancillaries, rifle, etc., lay on the dry ground on your back and then have a buddy grab you by your gear and drag you 100m as if you were a casualty. Then turn over on your face and get drug back.

    Not only will you find out if your gear is moderately suitable, it will have lost that noob sheen. And the bonus is that you will also find out if your battle buddy can drag you out of harms way or die of a heart attack.

    • Max says:

      1) if they would do it, which they won’t. Put that in the ‘too hard’ box.

      2) It’s not a ‘rant.’ It’s not an uncontrolled statement, but a simple statement of fact/purpose. So I simply disagree with that terminology.

      3) otherwise, agreed, good stuff.

  21. Diz says:

    Yeah, this is pretty funny, once you get around how sad it is.

    Guys go ape-shit over defending their gear choices instead of focusing on solid training.

    Goes to what they know versus what they have no knowledge of. They know how to shop and buy gear, but fuck-all about how to use it.

    But just one more try.

    If you use chi-com kit, two things. Unless your name is Dindu Nuthin from some African shit-hole, there is really no reason you need to be sporting one of these things. That’s all that chap has; you on the other hand have many other choices.

    If you get off your ass and train, you will come to understand what is needed to fight. You will upgrade your weapons and equipment to acceptable levels for combat grade kit. More specifically you will understand why a chi-com/airsoft rig is such a crappy choice.

    • Max says:

      Too true, too true.

    • ZoonORama says:

      I don’t disagree with buying good gear. And yes, I have attended Max’s training so it isn’t that which bothers me. What pissed me off was the statement that you are not a Patriot if you have gear that is ChiCom. Essentially, if I have NO gear I am a Patriot until I pick up my first foreign made pouch, then I am no longer considered a Patriot? I really don’t think that the brand of car I drive, clothes I wear or gear I sport should indicate my love of country and willingness to serve. Does this mean that those who come to the training sporting AKs are supporting Ruskies? Again, a communist regime… Let’s just all agree that the issue isn’t Patriotism…. It’s the use of cheap crap when yours and your battle buddy’s life might depend on it. Anyone of reasonable age understands, you get what you pay for, train like you fight, never tell your wife what you REALLY pay…. The rules I like to live by.

  22. Jason Howe says:

    On a practical note, for sizing purposes with the HSGI battle belt, Hypothetically speaking if my waist size is 40 what HSGI belt would be most suitable for all that muscle that I have to tighten down.

    • Max says:

      They have a sizing mechanism on the site, for the inside belt and outside battle belt parts. I’m not in my office right now to look at it. I know I wanted the padded exterior belt to come round to the front of my hips but not so far as to touch or overlap. Measuring tape and their chart should give you an answer.

  23. Max says:

    I haven’t even mentioned that often at class, guys are wearing this Chicom knock off gear and it is just badly designed and fitted, ergonomically poor. Battle belts too large and unwieldy etc. Those of us with experience and who actually train, know the true value of streamlined gear that fits better and aids, not hinders, our performance. There is no price argument in my eyes that can justify the use of this crap.

  24. Diz says:

    Ok I feel another guest post coming on.

    • Max says:

      *good*

      It’s needed. What’s the name of that Greek guy who had to push the rock up to the top of the hill every day only to watch it roll back down again, then repeat?

  25. Thomas says:

    His name was Sisyphus.

    The defense of anything personal, such as gear, is all about ego. Many find it difficult to admit their mistake and admit their deficit of knowledge.

    This blog post has been entertaining. I hope it goes on a while longer.

  26. […] in the gear game. This post was brought on as a(nother) reaction to the recent blog post ‘Banning Chinese Made Web Gear.‘ Nothing will cause more engagement from readers than gear. Partly, this is because […]

  27. JustARandomGuy says:

    Vindication: The part of the story where everything you think you know, and have been trying to pass on to others is backed up by input from those that actually do know.

    On topic- here’s another great function test for my fellow 2A folk:
    If you have $2-3k in your rifle and optic, but “can’t afford” decent support gear…. you’re doing it wrong.

  28. JB says:

    Max
    Does the ban include pants, boots, combat shirts etc. too, or just web gear?

    • Max says:

      Are you actually booked for a training class, or just generally being a dick?
      Do me a favor, and don’t book. Ever.

  29. JB says:

    My apologies. It was a genuine question. I have all of the clothing items, boots etc. in non-Chinese versions but I do have a couple things that are Chinese and I wanted to make sure they’d be ok. I would like to book a class but I guess I probably won’t be now.

    • Max says:

      Good.

      The great thing about a free market, is that I don’t have to offer my skills and expertise if I don’t want to. I don’t want to in this case.