Patrol Loads & Packs: Nuance & Perspective

Student Review: Combat Team Tactics April 2015: CouchSurferKyle
May 5, 2015
3 Spaces May 22-24 Combat Patrol
May 6, 2015

I plan on making two YouTube videos over the next couple of weeks, one on the new updated CUTT Chest Rig which is on its way to me, and the second on Patrol Packs.

I cover Rucks/Patrol Packs, including packing and considerations, on the Combat Patrol Class. What I tell people probably isn’t what they would expect to hear. No doubt, people think they are going to hear all about huge rucks and limitless amounts of gear. Not so. There is a certain amount of ‘prepper internet lore’ out there which is so gear focused, so much about ‘two is one and one is none,’ that you would end up with a huge pack if you followed it. The ‘if you don’t have it, you are wrong’ mindset.

Not so.

Clearly, there is a certain amount of gear that you will need to perform light infantry / security tasks. I’m not going to give you an exhaustive list, but we are concentrating on weapons, ammo, water, energy. And of course, each one of those has an implied task that falls out of it – such as what ‘loadout’ am I to carry and how much ammunition, etc, and what other supporting gear do I need to help that run.


Read the rest on the MVT Forum:  Forums Tactics & Leadership Patrol and Missions – Combat Patrol (CP)



  1. Baldrick says:

    Good info as always, much appreciated. Between Patrol II, the MOUT class, and the SUT leadership class…wow. Rolling out some new stuff! Now to decide which one…will be looking forward to more info about each.

  2. JD says:

    Check out Grey Ghost Gear for Karrimor packs. They have the Predator 45, Sabre 45 and 35 and the Sabre Delta 25 packs listed om their site.

  3. BBQ'd says:

    You keep handing out free stuff and I’m gonna start to feel guilty. That mean’s I’ll either have to get into a class soon or make a donation. Guess either way Max wins, eh?


  4. Bergmann says:

    “You have to get away from the idea that you can operate in some sort of self contained way indefinitely. ”

    True story..

    Up here Ive incorporated plating cache “Pods”.. Several small pods in a given area as opposed to one large stash that can get found by man or beast or even ruined from the elements..

    Never put all your eggs in on basket. Especially when you function alone..


  5. Easy says:

    I have weighed all my gear, here’s how it breaks down.

    My belt:
    8 loaded rifle mags
    3 loaded handgun mags
    full canteen
    Admin (eyedrops, bug spray, sun screen, wipes, aspirin, bandaids, ointment, etc, etc)
    Misc pouch (paracord, matches, lighters, flash light filters, zip ties, fire starter flint, flashlight, extra batteries)
    Sustenance pouch: Jerky, protein bars, gatorade electrolyte shots, Granola)
    Drop pouch
    Walkie talkie

    Drop leg:
    Blowout kit
    Extra flashlight

    Altogether, fully loaded, the belt, suspenders, and drop leg weigh in at 27 pounds.

    Add in the patrol pack:

    2 days worth of food
    8 more loaded mags
    half a gallon of water
    life straw
    gun cleaning/extra parts kit
    extra socks/liners
    foot powder
    tent spikes
    folding knife
    fuel cell/can for cooking
    boonie hat

    You got another 20 pounds or so.

    Then the ruck, summer set up. (large army alice with frame)

    sleeping bag
    extra clothes
    three days worth of food
    Gallon of water
    120 rounds of ammo in boxes
    Poncho liner
    (in the winter I would add cold weather gear)

    another 20 pounds, approximately.

    Just that, no body armor, 65 to 68 pounds, 7 pounds for the loaded rifle, 73 to 75 pounds total.

    • Diz says:

      Easy: I had essentially the same load out as you, however, after reading max’s post I thought long and hard about it. So I cut the belt kit load way down, leaving off the sustenance and water load, and a lot of other misc items that were redundant with what I have in the ruck. Yes, this is a risk, but it saves quite a bit of weight. I also trimmed a bit from the ruck as well. Chest rig and belt are now 19 lbs together, 45L patrol ruck 32 lbs. Not saying this will work for you, or anyone else for that matter, but it might be a consideration.

      • Easy says:

        Hey Diz…

        yeah, I have considered it too. Our group trains twice a month, and I kind of like wearing it when we are running drills for the conditioning the additional weight offers. If I were having to carry it every day, I probably would cut it down some.

        I recently acquired a Condor chest rig, and a high speed gear battle belt (the belt is really nice by the way.) My goal is to have a setup that is rapidly deployed, where the upper and lower part can be worn separately. Kind of what Max was getting at in his CUTT blog post.

        I think such a setup would be great for vehicle born operations where, if you had to jump in the truck and go aid a neighbor for example, throw the chest rig on, throw the belt in the back, and ride comfortably to the objective.

        I will post up in the forum when I get it put together and get some input.

        • Max Velocity says:

          My concept is a light vehicle friendly battle belt. Can be worn at all times for tasks around the farm. It’s a permanent basic load.

          Add CUTT chest rig & hydration pack. Still vehicle friendly as necessary.

          Add patrol pack for extended ops.

  6. BBQ'd says:

    Hope I am not asking an inappropriate question but if a group is on a longer patrol with the possibility of contact and or an objective in the plan, say a raid, would it be prudent to leave some gear at certain rally points along the way?


    • Diz says:

      Yes, that’s exactly what Max is referring to here. Having pre-positioned re-supply points (or friendlies) to replenish your supplies and keep the weight down.

      At the actual raid site, you would drop rucks at the ORP (objective Rally Point) and then retrieve them after the mission.

      • BBQ'd says:

        Thanks Diz. One more if it’s not to much trouble. Considering the exfil will take a different route from the infil…ante thoughts on how best to set up a cache or different caches?


        • Max Velocity says:

          When Diz refers to the ORP (objective Rally Point) he is talking about caching rucks there before conducting the action on the objective (which will vary depending on the mission). Ideally your ORP will be manned with a security detail, but may be just a cache if you don’t have the numbers. It’s not really a ‘cache’ like you are thinking though.

          You are supposed to return to the ORP after conducting the action on the objective, pick up bergans, and then move out on the separate return route.

          Only time this won’t happen is if it goes wrong on the objective. This is the inherent risk of carrying heavy bergans (rucks) and the fact that once you cache them, you may never see them again….

          … which point we return nearly to the idea of having a patrol pack that you can fight in…..

  7. Diz says:

    Just ordered the 45L Karrimor from Grey Ghost. I think Max is spot on with his concept here. Yes, there is risk dropping some redundant gear. Same as not wearing BA. But these risks need to be weighed against operational necessity. Keeping the load under 50lbs will probably be a practical necessity for most.

  8. TheChemist says:

    This is a well done piece of kit from Ares Armor. Ruck and patrol pack in one detachable unit, and sewn up in a non clumsy way

  9. […] Max dropped some truth bombs in a post today over at the MVT blog – check it out. […]

  10. WTL says:

    Looking forward to this week’s CP. Never ran this much gear before so I’m sure it will be an eye opener. Bringing a 35L pack so it will be interesting to see capabilities when fully loaded with mags and water.

    Q: how do you suggest the non-vest mags are stored on or in the pack and should we show up with 17 of them ready to go?

  11. […] Max dropped some truth bombs in a post today over at the MVT blog – check it out. […]